JohnsonJones

This is something I have seen many of those opposing the LDS church doing (not you, I'm talking the people you are calling Critic). They take sources which historically may not be that reliable, and use it as their primary source. Their oft loved stone in a hat story of the translation is VERY similar in their sourcing, as well as various other stories they try to use to paint Joseph in a bad light. They use many sources that were anti-Mormon then and trying to destroy Joseph as their primary sources today. Sometimes what it boils down to is to tell some member who's read the stuff on line who they believe, Joseph and the apostles that stayed with him and the Mormons after, or those who had dedicated their lives to his and all Mormon's destruction.

We have very different wives. If my wife wanted me to do that, I suppose I would...but no desire to play an online MMORPG (?) myself. That would be more forbearance on my part than enjoyment. We decided long ago that we would have to pray together as a couple every night, and then spend at least a minimum of 5 minutes with pillow talk afterwards. We could never seem to find that hour with kids, but five minutes as you go to sleep seemed plausible for us at the time. I do go out on a date with her these days two or three times a week, so there's that regarding courting.

Sharpie markers on the TV. Good times. I have had that happen some time ago. Kid always wanted to draw on the TV. I believe what I used was a dry erase marker. If you use dry erase on top of the sharpie marks, and then erase it, it is as if the sharpie was never there. Did it several times because that kid of mine was very determined. Annoyingly so. The kid also did that to the couch...didn't try it on the couch as it is a porous thing. Kid destroyed that couch and when I got a new one, I got one that was not cloth and VERY dark colored. Then that kid started poking holes in the leather. I love my kids, but there are times they could drive me crazy when they were young.

Sure, this world could be a simulation and yet have very REAL results. A prime example... Some time ago I was learning about what the police do in their training. While training, supposedly one of the tests that they had to pass was a friend or foe identification test. In this, they were put in a simulation. The cadets were STILL real people. That was real. The actors were real people (in the film at least). The cadets had fake guns and had to shoot those that were threats and not shoot those that were not. It was a test. If they failed enough times, they failed overall. It was one of the many tests they had to pass to become full on officers. It was a simulation with real people and things, but nothing from the simulation had lasting effects beyond that test except for whether the cadet passed or failed. No one was killed outside the simulation, and any actors that were, were alive beyond the simulation. In that light, we could be living in an environment made specifically to test us, which has real ramifications, but will not truly affect the rest of creation outside our own results of our test.

Yes, time conflicts happen. That can be a very difficult thing. I can understand how people have these difficulties and I can sympathize. The LDS church is a very involved church and religion. At least we can be grateful that it isn't expected that we live the law of consecration still (then the church basically owns us...all we have and all our time) as of yet. They can be difficult choices. Russell M. Nelson talked a little about this type of conflict in his talk recently at General Conference https://www.lds.org/general-conference/2017/04/drawing-the-power-of-jesus-christ-into-our-lives?lang=eng But that doesn't address that issue and actually has the gospel taking more time for those young adults that follow it (though I feel there are rewards for those that do). We have other examples of those who chose sports and various areas (Steve Young is one that many idolize that focused on sports and became a Mormon icon) as their way forward. Life is full of difficult choices and time management is part of it. I only hope that our Young Men attain a strong testimony and remain strong in the church. I also hope the same for our Young Women.

I am NOT a Trump supporter. I did NOT vote for Trump. I don't even like how Trump acts many times. However, I am really sick of how biased the media is against Trump. If I had the election to do over again, simply due to how biased the media is, I'd be HIGHLY tempted to vote for Trump just because of that. Now, to the surprise of no one with half a brain, Harvard has a study showing just how biased (or could one say, being more gossip rags rather than news with journalistic integrity) the news media has been. Liberal CNBC's article on media bias against Trump I put a liberal news site there just so one can see it's not just a verification from a conservative news site. It's actually kind of ticked me off over the past few weeks on just how much of a vendetta the media has been against Trump. Look, I don't like Trump, but how the media has treated him actually makes me pretty sick of it, to be honest. The study probably won't do anything to wake them up, but I sure wish it did, because, even for those like me who don't like Trump, it really hurts the media's credibility with how hard and far out in the field they've gone with their bias. Maybe this is part of Trumps master plan to make it so, even if I have an unfavorable view of Trump, I'd support him over almost anyone the media would support these days simply because I'm sick of how much they try to control me, and would simply be rebelling against that in my own way. For example, this entire Russian investigation...look no further than the media. They are their own worst enemy. That probably has more of an effect on anything I choose than some sort of slander from Russia. The bias of the media has done FAR more to make me consider supporting Trump and some of his issues than anything that the Russians probably could do (unless, of course the Russians support NBC, CBS, CNN, ABC, and other media outlets...in which case, the FBI should be investigating media ties to Russia far more than any ties Trump may have). For me, the entire way the media has reacted has basically made me fish harder on the internet for what I would see as valid news, because of how biased they are has hurt their credibility tremendously.

Now this is a separate issue, so I'm making a separate post. If your Young Men's leader feels camping every weekend is something they need to do, that is their prerogative. However, this isn't addressing this, it is addressing the Young men's issue. I'll relate from many years ago when I was a Young Man. Though the programs have changed since I was a kid, I went to state in several sports, was noted in stringed instruments, supported my teams and orchestra, was also in the Latin Club and Chess team as well as fencing, and still was an active participant in the Young Men's program. I do not know your circumstances, but I know I was a very busy guy as a young man, more than MOST who try to claim that they are so busy with sports that they can not do Young Men's. It boils down to what the youth and their parents feel is important. If one feels Young Men's is important, they will DO Young Men's. If they do not...they won't. I did football, soccer and track, and yes, there were some times meets were on Wednesday nights (the evening our ward did Young Men's when I was growing up), but it wasn't always. Football was only 10 games a season at the time (so EVERY Friday night during that time), but it wasn't year round. I don't know you or your son's situation. I know in general (not you specifically, I've been normally talking in general, instead of specifics because I do not know YOUR situation or specific situations as they differ from each other...and who knows, maybe there is an exception) MORMONS USE THESE EXCUSES and they are just that...excuses...of why they cannot be a part of the Young Men's program...and many other things. Why they cannot go to the temple, why they cannot clean the church, why they cannot go to sunday school, relief society, or why they cannot even attend church. Most of it is simply due to their own choice. You are absolutely correct in it is what we place as a priority in life. When I was a Young man I supported my sports teams. I went to practice and I went to meets and games. I was extremely busy. However, it was also a priority to be a 4 year seminary graduate (and with how late meets and practices sometimes went and me going to early Morning seminary, sometimes I question how smart a goal that was as I slept through a LOT of it, but I DID accomplish that goal), it was a priority to participate in Young Mens (and if there was a Venture program back then, which there wasn't, I would have been participating in it I believe), and it was a priority to participate in the church in general. Those priority's still are part of my life today. What we make as a priority in our early years, normally become what we have as a priority later in life. We can change, but many do not. Many do NOT put a priority in the Young Men's and Young Woman's programs these days, and we see how that reflects our inactives and actives among Young Single Adults later. I am not really accusing you of anything (except maybe gross misunderstanding of the Venture program), as I do not know your situation. But I DO know about the situation regarding the Young Single Adults in the LDS church in general right now, and what the probable causes are, and the situation is pretty darn grim. I do hear that we are doing better than many OTHER religions and churches currently in retaining our youth to young single adults...but at the same time that isn't so much encouraging, as simply realizing how bad it is for other religions if their retention rates are worse then ours.

Camping? Camping in not integral in the Venture program. I do not think you know what you are talking about here. Camping is an INTEGRAL part of the Boy Scouts program, the program designed for the 12-14 year olds. The LDS church is KEEPING that program. The Venture program is DIFFERENT and has been ignored mostly by Mormons. Many times they continue the 12-14 year old program far into the 14+ ages, but it is still the Boy Scouts and NOT the Venturing program. I already told you the requirements for the first three badges of the Venture program. It integrates a boys choice of what he wants to focus on. He has a choice of religious, physical, or mental focuses. The church program focuses on the Religious and Duty to God in regards to the Venture program. If a boy is active in his priest quorum, and participates in the Church's Young Men's program as he should, he will basically earn the first two badges of the Venture program without any trouble. The third can be chosen by that young men to be integrated in with his sports, or whatever extracurricular program I mentioned. The Boy Scout program was designed by the Boy Scouts and Mormons have overwhelmingly supported that program. Varsity and Venture Scouts were designed by the General Authorities in conjunction with the BSA to be programs that would work with their older boys in Young Men as the BSA program didn't seem to work that well with them as they got older. It is a DIFFERENT thing. Ironically, Mormons have overwhelmingly IGNORED those programs. In Venture scouts, IF a boy chooses to do a physical focus and it is NOT sports or some other item in that category, they DO have the option if they want something a little more structured of going after the Ranger Badge and having that in Lieu of a sports program or other such thing. This badge is NOT a requisite badge of the Venture program, but allows boys that are interested in the outdoors to focus more on the outdoor adventures...IF they so desire. Otherwise, there is NOTHING in the Venture program that is written out in the way BSA does that has anything to do with camping as it differs greatly from the Boy Scouts program. There are activities which are OPTIONAL and are in no way a requirement for advancement as a Venture Scout that Venture scouts can participate in and can use as part of their goals in earning their badges if they wish (for example, there's a thing called Kodiak challenge, an outdoor event far more intense than Boy Scout Camp), but each 16-18 year old in the LDS church can tailor the Venture program to what works best in their lives. That INCLUDES sports, or whatever other extracurricular activities they have. The ONLY priority that is there, is the SAME priority Mormons will have with the new program, and that is whether they support their boys in religious activities and participation in Young Men's or not. That HAS NOT changed, nor will it. The only difference is, where, before, sports and extracurricular activities were actually pretty vital elements of integrating a Young Man's school and outside church life with LDS church teachings, that is NO LONGER going to be a part of it in regards to the Venture program as this is being dropped. If you have problems because you feel a young man cannot do sports and other extracurricular activities and also participate in the LDS church Young Men's program, that is NOT going to miraculously change simply because Venturing is no longer part of that LDS program. The LDS Young Men's program will STILL be there, and the same problems people had with Venture scouts will still be there with the Young Men's program. It sounds to me the problem for you isn't with Venture scouts (as you don't even seem to understand what Venturing is or what it does), but with the Young Men's program in general. That program, the Young Men's program, is STILL going to be there, whether or not you choose to have your sons participate in it or not.

Thank you for your service. I'm not really a military sort of fellow myself, but I appreciate the freedom that I have due to the actions of those that chose to serve. So thank you.

Yes. I was going to go on a Scout Campout recently and told the Scout master I'd bring a set of my Laser tag system (I have a complete Laser tag system with two groups of six guns each for two teams) which I thought the boys would enjoy. He informed me that scouts could not point things like that at each other. I was surprised by that update of a system. But, the goal of Scouts is still the same. It is Fun with a purpose. That purpose (which many think the main leadership at national has forgotten, and I wonder myself at their decisions in this regard) is to teach boys morality, leadership, and responsibility. That goal is the same, even if the methods have changed somewhat over the years.

That shows the same misunderstanding that a LOT of Mormons have regarding Varsity and Venture scouts. Varsity scouts is actually designed with the team in mind, the leader being a coach. Venture on the otherhand, not only goes hand in hand with the LDS young men's program (basically, if you DID the young men's program in any way, shape, or fashion, you are doing a lot of the Venture program right there), it also allows for men to incorporate their sports or any other extracurricular activity into the program. The First award basically is to attend a Priest Quorum activity. If young men's can't even have a Priest quorum activity, something is seriously wrong with that quorum. For the Second award, a focus on getting their Duty to God and the religious requirements as well as attending THREE priest quorum activities. If a Young man is soo busy doing sports that he cannot go to church, cannot do the religious requirements (that are STILL IN PLACE with the world wide young men's program that is being used by the LDS church currently, and will remain as the sole Young Men's program after 2018 without the rewards system that the scouting could get), or attend any Wednesday activities...people like me calling you to repentance is the LEAST of your problems in regards to your kid. The third award, the Young man needs to design his own goal (similar to an Eagle Project, but more personal in advancing) where he shows leadership and responsibility. This can be with a physical or academic goal. For example, the goal to become Captain of the Football team or some other focus (if they are TRULY that big into sports) where they exhibit leadership and responsibility in whichever setting they wish. They also need to participate in actually showing leadership in the Priest quorum by helping plan some Priest Quorum activities. So...no, sports actually would help them if they are BIG into sports. The LDS leadership recognized these things in regards to the Priest Quorum and Venture scouts and planned it directly into the program. As I said before, Mormons do NOT want to listen to the guidance of the LDS church. So now, the program is actually very similar, but without the rewards system in place that the Venture scouts had for the 16-18 year olds. The first two Venture awards are so easy that any young man that is going to church should be able to earn them before he turns 18. After that, they get a little more intense and actually DO rely on a Young man doing extracurricular activities and taking responsibility for his actions as well as a larger participation in the Priest quorum. I can understand those who didn't get any more than the first two, but the first two Venture awards are almost like participation awards for those who are active in the LDS church. IRONICALLY, your statement shows a great misunderstanding about what this move does. The Venture program tried to incorporate the idea that not all young men like to camp or do things like that and would be participating in things like sports, band, or other extracurricular activities in school and allowed them to focus on them and be awarded for doing that in an LDS setting. Now that Ventures are being cut, the focus will be more the straight up LDS program (which is already there, but no one was following it anyways...generally speaking...they being in favor of strictly following the 12-14 year old program and boy scouts instead of Varsity or Venture), without the boys being able to have extracurricular activities actually being incorporated into the Young Men's program. Basically, what you stated is the opposite of what is now going to happen because the Saints could not be bothered to listen to the General authorities in the first place and did their own thing. Unfortunately, I also expect that Members will not get the point and continue to ignore the Church Leadership and our problems with Young men falling away when they become Young Single Adults may continue.

My wife (who I love dearly) was a Girl Scout and would counter they have an equal award that is just as prestigious (if people knew about it). I think it's called the Gold Award.

AS the above post, I originally was posting the following in another forum (Learn about Mormonism) but felt that the original comments I posted were a little too in depth for someone just trying to learn the basics of LDS teachings. Originally it was ABOVE the stuff I posted in the post above this one. AS I stated, it's probably a little too in depth for that forum and what the individual was asking, in regards to the Lord's Justice. So, I'm posting it here, it is as follows. This is a deeper subject than is easily discussed on a forum. Trying to collate my thoughts in that regard. In this life, we are too selfish. We want to know what is in it for us. Imagine, instead, a life where we LOVE EVERYONE. We want what is best for everyone we meet or know. We love them as much as we love ourselves. In that scenario, why would we want to exclude anyone from attaining the same reward as we have. In fact, we would wish everyone could have the same reward as we attain. In that light, whether we can get our friends and family to join us in this life, or the next, we will want them to be with us through the eternities. That said, there are natural ramifications for what we do in this life and the next. For starters, as some have stated, there will be those that will not accept the gospel regardless of this life or the next. There are rules for each kingdom of glory. The lowest, the Telestial, the only thing that is required is to accept the Lord. That is it. However, this is more complicated. In order to be saved in the Kingdom of heaven (of which the Telestial is part of) they need to be baptized, hence, our baptisms for the dead are for ALL mankind. Anyone who has ever walked this earth, whether evil or good, need to have that baptism done. They then are eligible to enter into the Telestial Kingdom where they can see the glory of creation around them and the glorious garden (or whatever is there) that they can rest. These do not receive the testimony of our Lord, nor his gospel. But as every knee shall bow, after they have suffered and been administered to by angels, they shall be saved. The next degree is the Terrestrial. This can be a bit bothersome, and I am going to give my OPINION here...so if you don't want to be somewhat disturbed (possibly), you can just skip my post. I am going to analyze section 76 VERY closely here. As you can see, this says some interesting things. I don't understand all of this in the modern context of understanding. There IS a possibility, however it means that what we have in this life is DIRECTLY responsible for what we decided and choose in the pre-existence. What I mean by this, is that WE choose whether we would be born into the churchy in this life, OR would have the opportunity to join the church and do so in this life. In THAT context, that means that those who do NOT have this opportunity PURPOSEFULLY CHOSE that path in the pre-existence. Hence, a possible meaning of verse 72 is that those who did not have the law given to them, aka...they choose not to. Here we also see those who did NOT accept the gospel of our Lord in mortality, but accepted it in the life hereafter. These were those who may be righteous (and perhaps even moreso than you or I) but decided that other teachings were more correct than the gospel as found in the LDS church. This idea can disturb MANY who feel that all there relatives who rejected the gospel in this life will attain the eternal exaltation in the next. WE DO NOT know. It is up to the Lord's judgment in that regard. However, be aware, for the Christian in other religions, this glory is all and MORE than what they teach they will receive. They will be in heaven, they will be able to be with our LORD (and as much of our Lord as most of them recognize in many ways). This is the glory that many of them seek in this life, and if they desire more than that later...it is this reward which they worked for, sought, and desired. I think to even gain this reward, there also must be work for the dead. There must be Initiatories, and perhaps even the first part of the endowment, which I will not go into here. they need some learning and education at least, I believe, in attaining the Terrestrial, and are accepting enough to participate in that reach. And then we see the requirement for the Celestial. The big thing to see here is that they are the church of the Firstborn. They are also priests after the Order of Mechizedek (and the rest of that verse). How does that correlate to temple work and receiving the gospel in the life hereafter. I think temple work is required for any of those who did not receive these things in this life to enter into any part of the kingdom of heaven, that means, even for the Telestial, there needs to be temple work done for those people. In light of modern revelation, do I know who will get to go the Celestial Kingdom in light of these verses? No, I do not, only the true and only judge can know that. For all I know, all who accept the gospel in the next life and have all their temple work done for them will be exalted. Or, it could be different, for mercy cannot rob justice, it can only inject mercy so that justice does not become tyranny. I do not know. However, I think it can be a gauge for EACH ONE of us, for in the end, it is each of us that is striving for our own salvation and exaltation. We need to worry about where we are at, for we cannot control what another person chooses in this regard. We can only LOVE all men and hope that they all can receive exaltation in the life to come, if possible, and that if not, they receive as great a reward as possible for the good things they choose in this life. I think I'll put more on my opinion in this matter in my personal thread regarding Mormon culture and such in another part of these forums. The long and short of it though, is I don't know. I have some areas of scripture that talk about it above, and it can be a good indication in some areas, but overall, I'm not the one who gets to decide who goes where...and though section 76 is illuminating, I'm not positive in who goes where at the end. All I know is that for each of us, we need to strive to do the best and be the best that we can possibly be. I do not think that anyone that earnestly and fervently desires to choose the right and seeks after a reward will be denied access to that reward for the fallibilities of those around us (other men and woman who may make decisions, for example, the woman who fervently wants to marry a righteous man in the temple for eternity, but is never given the opportunity to do so in this life). That any who see a righteous reward will be granted that reward and glory in the heavens hereafter.

I was about to post the following in another forum (learn about Mormons) but I thought it may be a little too deep and out there for that forum, especially since this is more me ponderizing about something than any set doctrine or theology set forth in the LDS church. In light of section 76 and what it says regarding the Terrestrial Kingdom, I've pondered on this long and hard. I have a family that, prior to me, did not accept the church. I know some of them had extensive teachings to them. What happens to them. I don't know. I hope that they are with me in the Celestial Kingdom, but what if they are not (and that I actually GET to the Celestial Kingdom myself)? In that light, why do we do Temple Work? AS I said, I think what we do in the Temple is pertinent to ALL the degrees of glory (and that is purely opinion, I could be wrong, in fact I wouldn't be surprised if I were) in some way or fashion. If we follow the opinions and teachings of Joseph F. Smith and Joseph Fielding Smith we know that the sealing bonds of parents to children extend past the Celestial Kingdom. They extend at least to the Terrestrial and possibly to the Telestial, as per their teachings, children that do not make it to the Celestial Kingdom can still attain it, but in a lesser degree in the Celestial than those who have earned the right to be there. The Sealing bonds enable parents to bring their children to the Celestial Kingdom to be with them. The children do NOT have the Celestial blessings of exaltation, nor the glory and powers of the Angels there, but they WILL be there. In that light, it seems as if the sealing bonds may be far more powerful than we give them reason. It could go two ways. (actually three, but the third is what most think the status quo is now). 1. Those that are sealed in the temple are sealed together no matter WHAT kingdom they end up in. That means, sealing for all time and eternity, if spouses end up in the same kingdom, they are still sealed together, even if they cannot use the faculties there of for eternal progeny. Husbands and wives and families truly are an eternal principle for all. This is an idea I've been leaning towards...BUT 2. Woman may be able to be saved in the Celestial Kingdom if they so choose regardless. This means that any woman who is sealed, and chooses to be sealed would automatically be in the Celestial Kingdom. This may be possible because of how things work in the temple, which I cannot go into any great detail here. However, an idea is as men are reporting to the Lord, woman report to the head of the family (her husband or father) and via that to the Lord in judgment? I think this is far more iffy, but a possibility. Or it could be as many think now, Sealing for time and all eternity between husband and wife is ONLY available in exaltation (and this actually follows in line with a lot of what Joseph Smith taught in regards to young woman and men needing to be married or if not, to be servants even if they did go the Celestial Kingdom because of this choice to remain unmarried). I don't know, just something I pondered about. I think I'll put this particular post in my topic on my thoughts on LDS culture and teachings and such as it is something I'd like to think more upon and when reviewing that thread (it's where I put stuff that I want to think about sometimes in more depth) this is something that I'd like to think more on, especially when I go to the temple.

This is a deeper subject than is easily discussed on a forum. Trying to collate my thoughts in that regard. I wrote a lot, but now editing it down to a smaller chunk that might be understood easier. In this life, we are too selfish. We want to know what is in it for us. Imagine, instead, a life where we LOVE EVERYONE. We want what is best for everyone we meet or know. We love them as much as we love ourselves. In that scenario, why would we want to exclude anyone from attaining the same reward as we have. In fact, we would wish everyone could have the same reward as we attain. In that light, whether we can get our friends and family to join us in this life, or the next, we will want them to be with us through the eternities. That said, there are natural ramifications for what we do in this life and the next. For starters, as some have stated, there will be those that will not accept the gospel regardless of this life or the next. However, I think our concern is for ourselves, it is each of us that is striving for our own salvation . We need to worry about where we are at, for we cannot control what another person chooses in this regard. We can only LOVE all men and hope that they all can receive salvation in the life to come, if possible, and that if not, they receive as great a reward as possible for the good things they choose in this life. The long and short of it though, is I don't know. I'm not positive in who goes where at the end. All I know is that for each of us, we need to strive to do the best and be the best that we can possibly be. I do not think that anyone that earnestly and fervently desires to choose the right and seeks after a reward will be denied access to that reward. That any who see a righteous reward and seek after it with all their heart and might, that it will be granted that reward and glory in the heavens hereafter.

I think there is wisdom this. I think that crushes in some ways ARE voluntary, and you can choose to have a crush or not. If not, you need to crush the idea in your mind. Look at ways why your wife is far more beautiful than her sister to you, and why you married your wife in the first place. Imagine how you would feel if your wife had a crush on someone else, constantly and fervently. How would you want her to deal with it? You should be bothered to some degree by that, and if so, ponder how you would want her to be more faithful to you in heart and mind. Likewise, try to make it so that you are more faithful to her, not just physically and in physical action, but in heart and mind as well.

That is not possible anymore unless the bishop twists the program slightly. The Boy Scouts now require the Scout to get to first class at least 10 outings with their patrol and at least 6 campouts with their troop. The LDS church ONLY allows boys 3 official campouts for 11 year old scouts. Yes...that is a discrepancy between what the LDS church allows and what the BSA requires. However, for a properly motivated boy (or in the LDS church for Mormon Eagles where the boys are NOT required to be motivated and instead it is the LEADERS teaching all the merit badges or getting the merit badge counselors instead of how the boys are supposed to go out and get them and utilize the counselors showing a degree of responsibility and determination on the boys part), I agree, getting an Eagle is doable by 14. It should take 6 months for a Non-LDS boy to get to first class, and 1 year and 3-4 months for an LDS boy to get to first class (because of the 6 campout requirements). You then add on another 4 months for star, 6 months for Life and another 6 months for Eagle, meaning for an LDS boy, They should get their Eagle 2 months before they turn 14. Not a ton of leeway there. HOWEVER, I think members in their joyous rejoicing at their hatred of the LDS church's young men's program (which was Varsity and Venture scouts), they are MISSING the point, and it's excessively tragic. Yes, this may be a warning to the Boy Scouts, but it isn't like the LDS church is getting OUT of scouts currently. There is overly too much rejoicing over this from membership, to the point that they are MISSING the OTHER side of the equation. This is simply going back to what the LDS church was like several decades ago BEFORE there were any Venture or Varsity programs. As per what I've gotten instructions on from SLC (Well, from area authorities and stake president rather than directly, but I think they got it more directly), this is NOT taking every 14-18 year old OUT of scouting, it's simply discontinuing the Varsity and Venture programs. In prior decades, boys started Boy Scouts and could continue with Boy Scouts until they were 18 if they wished, especially if they wanted to continue working towards their Eagle Scout. Not every boy did. This is what we are going back to. If the boys in the ward want to keep on working towards their Eagle Scout we keep them registered in the troop. If they want to stop scouting at 14, or earned their Eagle and want to stop scouts, we can let them. That's all. However, this is FAR more serious in regards to the membership. The REASON Varsity and Venture scouts being dropped (yes, as I said, it could be seen as a warning to the BSA, but there is a FAR MORE important reason towards the members on WHY this change is occurring, and members everywhere are missing it) is because the members flagrantly disobeyed the General Authorities on Varsity and Venture Scouts. Instead of helping their young men participate in the program, the membership basically ignored anything and everything in regards to the Young men's program in EVERY way. It was far more than just Varsity and Venture scouts, it was simply like dropping the Young Men off the planet and forgetting a real Young Men's program existed. It wasn't just Varsity and Venture scout awards that were not being earned, no one was getting the Duty to God or working on any of the Church's other religious aspects of the Young men's program. The members (there were specific ones that did work on this, but we are talking generally) ignored the Young Men's program as set out for any boy 14 and older. Instead they focused solely on the program set out for the 12-14 year olds in getting boys their Eagle Scouts. The other awards, ideas (such as Duty to God and the religious focus for 14 to 18 year olds) was entirely ignored in favor of the 12-14 year old program in Young Mens in general. Membership IGNORING what the General Authorities promoted and created for the Young men for many years now led to this. If the membership will NOT use the tools provided, and seeing the excessive failure rate where Young Men becoming single adults are dropping away from the church, something had to be done. So, they took away the tools and are trying to make it a FAR more direct point. THIS IS THE YOUNG MEN'S PROGRAM, it is WRITTEN DOWN officially from the church. NOW DO IT. I've seen a LOT of people rejoicing, but almost NONE of them are getting the actual message to the saints in this instance. Everyone is remarking about how terrible the scouts are (quick point, the LDS church is STILL in the scouts, whether we will be in 3-5 years, I do not know, but for now, we are still with them), but almost NONE are talking about how this program (and it's not a brand new one, it was originally made a few years ago with the Venture program being tailored more to fit into it a short while after that) is going to be utilized. I think it's because the members are going to continue ignoring what Salt Lake is telling them, and instead of buckling down and focusing on what is important, teaching our young men responsibility, reverence, and faith, they are going to continue doing what they were before. Doing basketball or a fun activity on Youth night without a refocus on how every activity should in some way be helping that young man establish a stronger faith and connection to our Lord. This is a serious thing, but I think this thread is indicative of the general attitude in the LDS church right now. Rejoice over what they think is happening to those they do not like, but iGNORE the brethren on what they are saying and it's ramifications on us, and HOW it actually applies to us and how we should be reflecting on how we should improve our lives, rather than how it may hurt another...because I can tell you, this is NOT done to hurt the scouts in any way (other than MAYBE being a warning)...but more to try to find ways so that the Saints will focus on the important facets for our young men. If they cannot utilize a program with a small complexity that was designed by General Authorities in connection with the BSA to help our Teachers and Priests develop a faith strong in the church, perhaps a more basic and direct measure is needed. This is it. However, I'm starting to get the impression people are going to continue to ignore what the Brethren have given us (the young men's program from a few years back is STILL what we are suppose to use, as was directed in the original media release and further instruction I have heard) that is used by the rest of the world beyond the US...even if we are not using the other tools of Varsity and Venture scouts that we had previously.

I appreciate the meals my wife cooks for me and the work she does cleaning around the house and the gardening she does.

You probably are not the target audience for Linux or other OS's then, most likely. MY items are mostly guesses on my part, as the closest to Linux I get is with my android tablet (and I suppose my phone uses android as well, but I strictly use that as a phone instead of the everything tool others use it as). All my computer is done on a windows pc.

I have been a scout leader directly in the past, and now though not really directly involved unless I wish to be as I am more in an administrative position in regards to scouting, all total I suppose I have over 20 years with scouting. I think Scouting is a great program, but one that is often NOT used the best by the church. My rundown to someone new to scouting would be as follows... 1. Youth Protection. Do this, ESPECIALLY two deep leadership. This is NOT just for the boys protection, but ALSO for YOUR protection. The more adults you have around you, the less any false accusations against you will hold water. At the same time, the more adults you have around the boys in a GROUP (so, as youth protection points out, no letting adults wander off alone with boys), the more protected the boys will be if there ARE any predators...which leads to the second item... 2. The LDS church is very ODD at how it does scouting in some areas. This is completely tradition. For some reason, parents, and many scout leaders think this is supposed to be a baby sitting service. IT IS NOT. PARENTS ARE SUPPOSED TO BE INVOLVED with their boys. Parents are actually supposed to be at Den meetings AND Pack meetings (I know, so many parents do not show and treat it like a baby sitting service instead). Parents can EVEN SIGN off their boys on requirements in Cub Scouts. It is supposed to be FAMILY oriented, and parents are supposed to be HEAVILY involved with their boys. Leadership and Parental involvement follow a pattern in scouts, with cubscouts being 20% done and lead by boys and 80% by leaders. Parents should be involved around 80% of the time. Boy Scouts should be 40% boy led and done with 60% led and done by leaders. There should also be around a 50-60% involvement with parents. The ones we will not participate in after 2018 is Varsity where it's supposed to be 60% boy led and 40% leaders and parents, and Venture where it is supposed to be 80% boy led and done and 20% leader and parents (Basically the boys do everything and the leaders are there to make sure no one gets killed). 3. There is training, specifically leader specific training. DO IT. This training also has advanced stages, and similarly to scouting, adults can also have their own program which can teach you more about how scouting is supposed to work (and many times it doesn't because leaders do NOT get trained appropriately). Leader specific training is the base level that everyone should have. Imagine flying on an airplane and your pilot has their private pilot's license (not instrument, so they really can't fly by instruments, nor even their commercial pilots license...how would you feel. With Leader Specific training you have your private pilot's license...not even your commercial license yet...just enough knowledge to fly and hopefully not kill yourself). You can also take Baloo to teach you out door skills with scouts (and you are supposed to have this if you do any outdoor activities, which you should), and then you have Wood Badge, which I feel every scout leader SHOULD take as it truly helps comport what scouting is really about and what it should be like. 4. If you are bothered by scouting in general, you can also focus somewhat on the religious requirements and the church's program in that regard. Too many scout leaders forget that the LDS church has a religious element for their primary age children and youth. Next, the VERY basic item of scouts is the Oath and Law. This should be the base that you form everything else you train them in about. If you are not instilling in them to be trustworthy, loyal, helpful, friendly, courteous, kind, obedient, cheerful, thrifty, brave, clean and reverent...the rest of the program really isn't worth squat. You need these core values in the scouts. This is what the program is REALLY about, to teach the boys these values while trying to do fun activities which help them grow in responsibility and leadership. They also need to know that they have a duty to God and their country, That they need to help others and need to keep themselves in the best physical shape they can, follow the church in their morals, and try to also learn and remain mentally sharp in school and activities. This leads to the last and final item. 5. Don't be your typical LDS Scout leader. Park Rangers groan when an LDS troop or pack comes by as these seem to be the most prone to violate rules and break items and get in serious trouble. This is because Scout leaders are NOT the example of scout values that I mentioned in 4. above. The scouts do not value the itmes in 4 above. They forget the very foundation upon which scouting is supposed to be built on. Too many scout leaders do not realize that the scouting program is to be built on the values and morals of the Oath and law. Instead they do things like you mentioned in your original post where they just do things to do them. Scouting is FUN with a purpose. That purpose is to use the Oath and Law to instill moral values in boys and help them develop responsibility and leadership. If you have questions you can PM me. I tend to be gone for long stretches at a time to various things, but it also appears anatess2 also has experience in this regard and probably would be more than willing to answer questions as well.

I don't know to be honest, as I don't really use a Linux machine. I'm solidly on Windows. I think I could take some guesses. If you have an older version of Windows, perhaps you could run that Windows version to play games, but have none of the headaches of the newer versions of Windows (for example, yesterday I was using Windows 10 and left some conference talks open to get back to later. When I came back, the machine was a green screen because it decided that it was time to update. A minor inconvenience as I came back 20 minutes later and it was back up again, and the talks opened right back up when I reclicked the browser, but I know some people would be extremely put off by things like that. You can turn windows off at will with a virtual machine (or I think you can) so you don't have many of the headaches with Windows, and all the flexibility and control that you have with Linux. Linux seems to run (well some versions of Linux) and faster than Windows as a whole if configured right. I think my tablet as an Android is of some sort of Linux type configuration. It seems with the google store I have a ton more options in regards to apps to download and utilize than I do for windows. I imagine many of those apps will run better for Linux than they would for windows if you were trying to organize them in that fashion.

I have heard of Perry Rhodan. I have some of the books and even a board game or two with Perry Rhodan.

I not technologically knowledgeable, but even I know about Gimp! Actually, the reason I know about it is due to my wife who uses it sometimes.

Well, the church won't know whether that $5 is all of what she received, or 10% of $50. They'll accept whatever you write out on your tithing slip and give as tithing. I'd say she is giving a generous tithe in that case...though maybe she should be taught more about fast offerings.

I don't know about that, but as far as we know out to several generations (past when the LDS church began) we are the first family in the LDS church. AS it IS one of the noble families it could be some people wanting to simply do that genealogy without our consent, and as soon as I put something out there, someone wants to snatch it up as soon as they think it is available. One of the downsides (or one could say upsides) of my genealogy on one of my parent's side of the family.