Grunt

I'm answering your question.

The greater service is the service that doesn't judge another's service.

I don't even want to wrap my brain around tithing yet.

My wife and I have many things separate, but not out of secrecy. We're best friends. I have no secrets from her.

You should have said what you wanted to say. Everyone there had a problem and I'll bet at least one person was hoping to attack the issue but was scared to go first. Good job showing up. It must be tough. Remember, it's your program so get something out of it.

Blasphemer

Here I go with a tangent again. I think men would NEVER share a wife. At least not an alpha male. Maybe a beta. I believe the reason they don't care as much about porn is that most men I know just have a nonchalant attitude towards it. I believe many men can separate sex from affection. When they view porn they don't think of it as cheating because there is no emotion involved.

If martians came to earth in Yugos, would marshmallows turn purple?

Nope. I listen. Offer advice when asked. Don't get involved. "Rules for dating Grunt" were handed out on the first date. They haven't changed.

I don't get involved in ANY female arguments regardless who they're between. Nothing good comes of it.

Then there are those of us who just don't understand ANYTHING.

I'm not saying that at all. I'm saying YOU find it shocking because it's taboo to you. I don't find it shocking at all, because I'm around discussion of it all the time.

I don't find it shocking at all. I can only speak for my circles, but people I know don't view porn in the same light as Mormons. To them it's just not a big deal.

Says you. I'm a grown man and I'll do what I want.

I apologize for derailing this. I'm going to leave the thread until it gets back on topic. I asked because I'm honestly trying to understand the reasons behind some things and talk through things that don't make sense to me. That has turned into a discussion/defense/attack on/of obesity. While I feel that is a legitimate discussion, it's not one I would participate in on this forum. I think it would stand in the way of information that I personally value more. It may seem like I bail out of discussions often. It's not because I don't have an opinion or because I can't make a good argument. It's because I believe some topics are best discussed in person or that topic is taking me off my path. It is very easy to be insensitive, judgmental, or accusatory online. It's a little more difficult when you're looking them in the eye as you make your argument. As I've stated before, I believe getting sidetracked on the easy arguments keeps your focus from what you need to learn. Maybe that's Satan's plan.

I think what happened is I have limited examples due to my ignorance of so many things about the Mormon church. I chose obesity because more often than not it is a fairly good representation of health. Unfortunately, it is also a sore spot for many people. As a result, we end up arguing about the example I used, not the actual point I was making or question I was asking.

Sure. There are factors for many bad behaviors.

Did you just slap me? I guess it also depends on how you define obese. I said 5'4, 450 pounds for a reason. I'd be surprised if a doctor argued that was healthy. I absolutely agree there are thin people who are walking basket cases. I chose my example because it fit as an example of typically willful bad health.

Wouldn't compassion or assistance for those who need it, particularly those not living their lives according to the gospel, be the best way to witness?

In a link to LDS provided in response to an earlier question, it was said our bodies are a temple and we must keep them worthy, that is why certain things are not allowed. Obesity has nothing to do with body image. It has to do with health. If the reason constantly thrown around for avoiding certain things is we are abusing our bodies which are a temple to Christ, then why does that not apply to everything we do that is bad for our physical form, to include obesity?

That's what I was trying to say, just not as eloquently.

Sure. I've had similar thoughts, but I don't dwell on them. I was discussing a few things with my wife tonight and she gave me an eye roll. Not in a mean way, just a physical reaction that isn't unlike what I get sometimes. This led to a very frank discussion between us where we talked about the Book of Mormon, The Holy Bible, and religion in general. Her doubts are similar to my own, only she hasn't been doing the reading, studying, and answer seeking that I have so her criticisms bothered me a little because she didn't even understand what she was criticizing, nor had she put forth the effort. Here's my opinion. It doesn't solve my issues with the BoM, but it keeps my playing the game. Do you believe the Bible is a true testament? Why? What makes you believe the Bible and not the BoM? Did you get a testimony that the Bible was true? Your questions are legitimate, but dwelling on them isn't going to bring you the answers you seek. You're focusing on the negative. You need to read the BoM with an open heart and not question these things. That doesn't mean you have to accept the BoM as true, but if you are concerned that it is false you won't receive the testimony you want. I'm convinced of that. The more I read scripture, the more I associate with the faithful, the less concern I have for the issues I have with the scripture. That doesn't mean I accept it, only that I'm comfortable with it. From comfort I hope I can achieve testimony. If I can't, I can still decide from that point where my road takes me. If you're tainted by a need to focus on doubt, I don't believe you'll have room for truth.

ETA: Just kidding. Nobody delivers anything to my neck of the woods except manure and hay.

Sure. Is it not also tainting his temple if you are 5'4 450 pounds?

It's also not my place to decide someone else's sin. I bring it up here as an example because I don't understand WoW and other covenants and I try to work through it.