Grunt

I bet my moving company doesn't know what a Mormon is. Besides, will they move farm animals?

Easy now, I never said there was something wrong with it. You just don't want to advertise it.

Thus far it seems like everyone is on the same page, some just call it "support" and some don't. The general theme seems to be "we believe same sex marriage is wrong, but we believe the State's involvement in ANY marriage is wrong, therefore we don't support the State's attempt to regulate any marriage, to include same sex." So nobody seems to actively support it, they just think everyone should mind their own business and keep the government out of it.

In case you haven't realized it yet, I'm somewhat of a prepper. Not the kind you see on the documentaries with hidden food and bunkers, but just general self-sufficiency. Most people wouldn't even notice it. There are so many aspects to self-sufficiency but here is what I've found to make the most sense, particularly for those starting out. 1. Most disasters aren't the apocalypse. Most disasters are an injury that lands a family member in the hospital for multiple days. A power outage for a week. Getting snowed in. 2. Always keep a bug out bag for those small emergencies. Toys to entertain kids. Snacks. Change of clothes. Cell phone chargers. Things you use daily and would miss if your whole family is stuck in the hospital with a sick child. 3. Food supply is important. MREs stink. Do you want to eat them for 90 days? They also have a shelf life. When was the last time you needed extended food stores? You don't want to replace your entire storage every "x" number of years. 4. Set up a food pantry. Can racks work GREAT, too. The freshest is always on bottom. Make a place to easily store food where rotation is natural. 5. Track what you use. Since most people don't eat the same meals every week, I suggest you track it for a month. Every time you use something, write it down. EVERYTHING, to include paper products. At the end of the month, you now know what your typical food usage is for a month. Duplicating this is "one month's supply". 6. Buy what you use. Do you eat canned beans a few times a week? Every time you shop, buy a few extra cans. Buy only what you typically eat. Don't buy peas because they are on sale and make a good prep item. Buy what you use. 7. Store these items in your can rack or pantry. Continue to eat normally, using your stores. Keep shopping on your normal schedule, buying a few extra cans each time and adding the new food to the back of your stores. Since you're buying what you eat normally, you are constantly rotating your own stock. Newest in the back, oldest on the dinner table. Most importantly, should you ever NEED your stores, you just continue eating normally. You bought the meals your family typically eats. 8. Water filtration. Stored water is fine, but it takes up a ton of room I don't care for the taste. Sometimes it's necessary, so it's important in at least small quantities. Have a well? Buy a hand pump. Buy water filtration so you can get your water anywhere. 9. Start a garden. Many people are turning their backyards into food production. I have a friend who earns a living off 1/4 acre of fairly urban land. That's it. 10. Buy chickens. Just a few hens can produce enough eggs for a family and they are almost zero work. I know people with chickens in the city and suburbs. If needed, they can also find most of their own food. These are just inexpensive and simple ways to start. I have rack plans, coop plans, chicken tractor plans, etc if anyone ever gets super crazy. Add a rooster or two and now you sustain your own flock. Save the seeds from the best plants and now you foster your own garden annually. Graft trees and now you have multiple fruits in limited acreage. Becoming self-sufficient isn't that hard or that much work.

Thank you. As a libertarian I'm with you. However, I don't feel my belief that the government shouldn't be involved in marriage at all equals a support of same sex marriage.

For the record, Boy's Night Out consists of me and 6 yo twins. Every Tuesday. My favorite night of the week.

Is it inappropriate to ask how you can be LDS and support same sex marriage?

Tuesday nights are "Boy's Night Out". I shouldn't be on for another hour or so. You're safe.

I don't even know what I'm failing at. Welcome to my life.

My point is either lost on you or I'm unable to express it clearly. I'll bow out of the discussion at this point. I will add this has nothing to do with the Word of Wisdom. I lack the insight to know why God decrees anything. I was discussing the reasoning man has applied to it.

My boys have only been going a month, but they enjoy the activities the teachers have in primary. They suffer through sacrament quietly and count the hymns (pssst, only two hymns left!) until they can go with the other kids.

Thank you! It says they shouldn't be displayed or exposed to view of people who don't understand it. I guess that answers my question. At my work, there is zero privacy for changing. I don't know how someone would get around that.

This is one of the reasons I don't take sacrament at church. I explain (rightfully or wrongfully) to my young boys who always want to know why they can't have bread that it isn't just eating bread, it means something special and it's disrespectful to do it without understanding the meaning or "agreeing to the rules". I get "looks" from the members when I just pass the plate. I hope they realize I'm trying to be respectful.

Are garments "private", or just sacred? If you go to the gym, do you change into your garments in the locker room?

Chaplain, I believe your data may be off. According to CDC only 10% of drinkers they determine to "drink too much" are alcoholics. How many people in the country drink? I don't know. I think my comparison is spot on.

Chaplain, Not exactly. I'm not involving the government in my discussion at all. I'm saying the argument "it's not safe to drink alcohol because you might become an addict" isn't a valid argument, and if the argument is "cause vs possible effect" that same logic applies to numerous scenarios. Furthermore, I've stated as church doctrine it is completely logical and valid. It should be left at that, though, as the LDS does with coffee, or validated through harmful effects of alcohol. Addiction shouldn't be one of them, though, since millions of people consume alcohol without addiction.

Again, Chaplain, we would have to establish an acceptable level of benefit to justify risk. I don't accept that as the basis for restriction of freedom.

Again, I disagree. I see where the disagreement of semantics lies, though. The basis for your claim is "faulty comparison" and I don't accept that it is. The two behaviors needn't be similar to warrant a just comparison. The comparison is just based upon the outcome: no alcohol means no harm from alcohol, even though alcohol can exist without harm, regardless the statistics; no driving means no harm from driving, even though driving can exist without harm, regardless the statistics. To deny the comparison as faulty, one must first establish an agreed level of acceptable damage for the comparison to hold true. I don't accept there is one since I reject the "risk justifies restriction" argument completely.

Had a two week old at church Sunday. The parents took turns with him when they felt he needed to be out of the room. There are so many kids at the services I can't' imagine another would be a distraction.

You're moving the goal posts. The point was the number of people who wouldn't be abusers if they didn't drink. The response of "the number of people who wouldn't be harmed if we didn't drive cars" is completely valid.

Sure, but using the same argument, think of how many lives would be saved if we banned driving.

I suppose I'm not an environmentalist, but I practice sustainable agriculture on my own land.

You'd be surprised how difficult it is to offend me.

You don't have to worry about any bases with me, I'm a big boy. Thanks, though. You have your own path to follow. I don't have to like it. I can have my opinions about it and/or you. I have no standing to voice them, so it's best if I just stick to things I find useful and ignore those that I don't. The onus isn't on you to know the difference. The information gained here certainly influences my opinion of LDS, though. I hope you're sincere in your search and find what you're looking for.