Grunt

Ok. I took it more as exaggeration to make a point.

If that's inspired, then absolutely. That wasn't what the Spirit confirmed for her, though. He just confirmed a ward. Big difference.

Interesting. I just really find it difficult to believe that every individual in a community refused to admit a new member and every member of a community was self righteous. In all my days of living, I've never found an organization that consisted of 100% of anything like that.

What made them "crap wards"?

Saturday Evening Session Change

It doesn't make it impossible. If you are in a ward and nobody will be your friend, even after the years of trying you stated, then the issue is you. (the royal you)

And everyone in the ward gets along except them?

I feel for them, but I don't get why it's "miserable". Maybe it's just because I'm a convert, or that I live in such a rural area that most of us don't rely on other members for social events and friendships. I would imagine it could be far more difficult in other areas. My experience in many different wards, while most of them are just visits, has been that they are friendly and welcoming. Sometimes maybe the issue isn't the ward. For example: Some may remember in my "Missionaries" thread I spoke about the woman who made me feel very uncomfortable as an investigator. I found her to be very rude. I now realize this is just her personality. Everyone winks and nods because "it's her". I would imagine that she'd have a hard time in another ward that didn't know her if she acted that way.

No need to be lonely and miserable. It's 2 hours a week. One of those hours you're taking the Sacrament and listening to inspired talks.

We have a convert in our ward that lives out of area. He says he told them he wouldn't join unless he could be in this ward with his friend. That was long before I came around, though.

Awesome. I'm going to Dunks and calling the bishop to quit my calling. It's going to be nice being able to hunt on Sundays again rather than sitting in Sacrament.

Interesting. My information is anecdotal, but in my little ward in the boonies membership seems to have increased and activity seems to be the same over the past 2 1/2 years.

Interesting. Do you mind if I ask what state you're in? I'm very far away from large church concentrations, but our ward is growing.

I wasn't very clear in my original post. I understand that technically, if you're on the rolls, you're a member. I guess I was more asking what YOU (royal you) consider to be a member. The real question I have isn't one that can be answered, except by a few. That's "why do you consider yourself to be a member when you don't do anything that is expected of members, except be listed on the rolls?"

I hope. I just can't imagine the reward, and thus eternal happiness, of someone who says "I know it's true, but this is just so much more fun right now" will be the same as someone who strives daily to be like Christ. Maybe it will, though. Maybe I'm the sucker following the rules when it really doesn't matter.

I guess I just don't understand that. It's not in my personal ability to grasp that concept. I understand fighting addictions. I understand failing to impulses. I understand falling short in your attempts. I don't have addictions, but I fall short in countless other ways. What I can't wrap my brain around is someone wanting to try to live the gospel and not TRYING. What I don't understand is knowing that the is the restored Church; knowing that your loving father in heaven, your creator, your ancestors, ALL want you to attempt to be as Christ-like as you can; knowing that you made COVENANTS to do these things AND knowing you should do these things, that the salvation of you and your family depend on you doing these things, and making no attempt to try to do them. I just can't understand that mindset.

I absolutely agree. I think I was more concerned, perhaps wrongly, with the misrepresentation of the Church.

Thanks for the responses. I ask because I've had several experiences that I found "odd". I guess, perhaps, I just take my faith too seriously? The last experience was meeting someone while out that was having a beer and while discussing religion said he was a "Mormon". He loved the faith, it seemed. However, he hadn't been to Church, read the scripture, or apparently cared about his covenants in years. Nice enough guy. Had a good talk. But it was just odd to be sitting there with him while he told everyone else in the group about how great "Mormonism" is.

What makes one a member of the Church? Is it simply a matter of being baptized then you're a member for life? Are you still a member if you don't keep your covenants, don't attend Sacrament, and have no intention of doing so? At what point, if any, are you no longer considered a member of the Church?

I'm not sure I agree with this. "Julie" may not need the programs, but maybe the Lord inspires these programs because someone else in the program may need "Julie". Charity and service aren't just for projects.

I did not. Interesting.

I can explain it to you. I can't understand it for you.

OR, heaven forbid, people actually follow the Prophet and stop murmuring.

Pretty much just as it was laid out here. He mentioned that members always say "I know the Church is true", then he went on to say what he means by that.

Pick up a petition! J/K