clbent04

To anyone interested in attending the church's ARP (Addiction Recovery Program) who is trying to break a pornography addiction, I went for the first time last night. They held the support group inside a church classroom. About 5-6 other people were there to attend, and 3 others were conducting the class (a man and a missionary couple). We read some paragraphs from the ARP manual. After 15-20 min, they proceeded to have "sharing time". Everyone got 3-5 minutes to talk about whatever they wanted. I thought everyone was going to talk about their addictions and where they are at in over coming them. Instead, while they may have referenced the fact they have an addiction, everyone ended up talking about something else like their thoughts on what we had just read out of the ARP manual. While others were sharing, I read some of the manual myself. The manual has 12 steps to help lead you through addiction recovery. The first step is admitting you are powerless to overcome your addiction. I don't know if this is how the meetings typically go, but I got the feeling I was the only one there with a pornography addiction. All I ended up saying way this was my first time being to one of these, and it looks like I'm starting at step 1 out of the 12 steps, and it wasn't until recently my interest was sparked in the gospel once more after a 3-year period being away from the church. Anyway, that's what I encountered. I'm sure the classroom dynamic is different in other places. I am going to stick with the program since the 12 steps are aimed to help with any addiction, not just drugs and alcohol.

Thanks @Jojo Bags

I know someone in the church who I respect and admire very much. She's an older woman who is VERY spiritually in tune with the Lord and what lies beyond the veil. She told me that when you cast out an unclean spirit, you want to make sure you do so saying, "In the name of Jesus Christ, I command you to leave this body and place you under lock and key." I don't think she meant you have to say those specific words, but it's important to do so in the name of Jesus Christ and to say something to prevent the spirit from coming back

Someone sent me a personal message a couple weeks back after reading about how I've had a pornography addiction the past 20 years. They suggested I consider requesting a blessing to have unclean spirits cast out of me. At first glance, I thought thanks, but no thanks, I don't think I'm possessed. But then I started reviewing a personal account and study of unclean spirits he shared with me written by a man named Scott Gillespie. http://www.nofearpreps.com/uploads/1/4/4/2/14427784/2porn_sickness_evil_spirits_and_the_priesthood_-_copy.pdf Scott was addicted to pornography for 48 years until his wife told him she thought he was possessed by an unclean spirit. After hearing that from his wife, he asked his bishop if he would cast out any unclean spirits from him. The following is his account: "I went to my wife and told her every single thing I had ever done wrong in my life, things that I had never told another human being. I hurt her horribly, but my honesty kept her with me. I then went to my bishop and confessed to him every sin I had ever committed, including ones that I had previously confessed. I wanted a totally clean slate. Then I surprised him by telling him that my wife suspected I was possessed by an unclean spirit. I told him I wanted a blessing and for him to cast it out of me. The bishop was a bit skeptical at first, but he anointed me and gave me a blessing. He rebuked any unclean spirits and commanded them to depart. When my bishop said, “In the name of Jesus Christ,” I felt what I can only describe as an angry beehive inside me. It boiled up inside me for a moment then felt like it reluctantly stepped from my body. When he closed the blessing, I jumped up and told my bishop that I felt them leave me. He told me he heard them leave me. He heard a “whooshing sound” as they left. From that point forward, I was a different person. In addition to the compulsions, I also had other objectionable character traits. One in particular was a homosexual tendency and interest in homosexuality. This trait, along with several other traits and the horrible compulsions were completely gone. When the unclean spirits were expelled, they took their compulsions and imposed character traits with them. What remained was some horrible conditioning (bad habits), but without the compulsions, I was able to change the conditioning. That process took about four months of difficult, concentrated effort, but I was successful. It felt like the Holy Spirit took me by the hand, guiding me and teaching me how to change my life. I am now completely healed from my addiction and I have been spiritually reborn. I have no fear of the internet and the very thought of pornography fills me with dread and revulsion. I am even uncomfortable around an immodestly dressed woman. The old saying, “Once an addict, always an addict,” is not always true. With enough faith, anyone can be healed of anything." After reading more of Scott Gillespie's account, I started reflecting on my own life. Why have I not been able to kick this habit for the last 20 years? Is it simply lack of self control? I've always thought so. But for a man like Scott to live on for 48 years with his pornography addiction and oblivious to having an unclean spirit, I think why couldn't that be me too? Maybe possessions don't have to be obvious, maybe they can be subtle, just enough to keep you down. I even recall times Priesthood holders have given me blessings in the past and once they start the blessing it's like I'm immediately being attacked with impure thoughts. This, along with my 20 year addition problem, got me thinking I might need this blessing after all. So anyway, I asked the bishop this last Sunday for a priesthood blessing. I asked him to cast out any unclean spirit I might have. He was skeptical just like Scott's bishop was, and he told me he had never cast out an unclean spirit before. He said he could give me a blessing of comfort, and if I still wanted the other blessing, he would look in to how it's done and we could do it at a later time. He gave me a blessing of comfort, for which I thanked him, and just last night I felt the urge to contact him to request he cast out any unclean spirits from me. He texted me back saying, "actually I came very close to doing what we needed to do this last Sunday. I just did not command the evil spirits to leave." He then said now knowing how to do it, he would gladly do so this upcoming Sunday. I look forward to this blessing, but I'm also realistic if I want to accomplish this goal, I still need to do my part.

The media portrays women as always being affected by jealousy. Men are portrayed as not being affected as much. I don't see any reason why one sex would be more jealous than the other in situations that would cause jealously. Point being, polyandry would be just as difficult for men to follow, if not more, considering men have a greater natural tendency to be in positions of leadership, to be the man of his own household. Psychologically, I think practicing polyandry would strip a man from part of his manhood

Seems reasonable to me to flip the coin to consider the perspective of the sisters of the church

What if the Lord revealed the practice of Polyandry to Joseph Smith rather than Polygamy? To the men, would you embrace sharing one wife with your brother husbands? To the women, would you embrace being married to more than one man? Even if you and your wife didn't openly practice polyandry, would you stand behind a church that accepted the concept as an eternally true doctrine for those worthy and willing? Just trying to put myself in the shoes of some of the very faithful women in the early days of the restored church.

Tempt away. I'm not getting stuck with your package of hot dogs

I wouldn't want to leave the west coast either. Just more easy going, fewer congested cities and much better weather.

I think Arizona is actually second to Utah in terms of highest state population of Mormons, but where I live in North Phoenix is very different than some of the heavier populated LDS communities like Mesa, Chandler and Gilbert

The greatest indicator of the Spirit working in my life has been the feeling of peace combined with a feeling of a connection to a higher power. If you feel peace at the same time you feel a bond to a higher power, that is the Spirit. You know the bond is there when you're experiencing it. Other than that, you can't describe it. All other positive feelings such as happiness can be replicated in other ways that aren't always prompted by the Spirit

Says the guy who started the obesity discussion

Definitely take your wife's side. She's the outsider in that equation of you, her, and your parents. Much easier to bridge the road starting with your parents who you have understanding and history with, than it is to ask your wife to bridge the road by herself

The more cooks you have in a kitchen, the more chance you have for error. The church is operated by millions of people, from the First Presidency all the way down to members with ward callings. The margin of error is much greater when it comes to everyone executing church operations as the Lord intends. The gospel is much more perfect considering it has come to us by means of revelation received by a few, select men. Only one cook is in that kitchen at any given time, the prophet. Only the prophet can receive revelation for the body of the church. The Lord has quality control for the gospel on lock down. It's a sigma level 7+ rating, whereas the execution of all church operations might be at a level 4. https://www.isixsigma.com/new-to-six-sigma/sigma-level/sigma-performance-levels-one-six-sigma/ Sigma Performance Levels – One to Six Sigma Sigma Level Defects Per Million Opportunities (DPMO) 1 690,000 2 308,537 3 66,807 4 6,210 5 233 6 3.4 What Would This Look Like In The Real World? It’s one thing to see the numbers and it’s a whole other thing to see how it would apply to your daily life. Real-world Performance Levels Situation/Example In 1 Sigma World In 3 Sigma World In 6 Sigma World Pieces of your mail lost per year [1,600 opportunities per year] 1,106 107 Less than 1 Number of empty coffee pots at work (who didn’t fill the coffee pot again?) [680 opportunities per year] 470 45 Less than 1 Number of telephone disconnections [7,000 talk minutes] 4,839 467 0.02 Erroneous business orders [250,000 opportunities per year] 172,924 16,694 0.9

Thanks @person0. I've finally put my finger on what my issue is. The "if, then" logic isn't logical to me. I've based my testimony of the church largely on the "if, then" logic when I received a witness of the power of the Priesthood. Knowing the Priesthood was true, I easily accepted that the Book of Mormon was true and Joseph Smith was a prophet of God. Funny enough, even though the "if, then" logic doesn't make sense to me, I've undeniably experienced the power of the Priesthood, and I still find myself largely believing and accepting everything in the church to be true. I just need to humble myself before the Lord and find real intent to receive the answers I need, to strengthen my testimony and overcome my doubts once and for all. "For if the Book of Mormon is true, then Jesus is the Christ, Joseph Smith was His prophet, The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is true, and it is being led today by a prophet receiving revelation." - President Ezra Taft Benson https://www.lds.org/ensign/1988/01/the-book-of-mormon-is-the-word-of-god?lang=eng "When we know the Book of Mormon is true, then it follows that Joseph Smith was indeed a prophet and that he saw God the Eternal Father and His Son, Jesus Christ." - President Thomas S. Monson https://www.lds.org/prophets-and-apostles/unto-all-the-world/you-can-know?lang=eng

This is when I go back into the Chinese restaurant and demand another fortune cookie

Good point. Allow me to throw an asterisk in there: The gospel is perfect* *as far as it is translated and interpreted correctly as revealed to his servants (whose to say prophets and apostles don't make mistakes?). I think the gospel is pretty spot on though. Even if something is revealed and not received exactly the way God intended, the First Presidency and Apostles are diligently listening to the will of God to direct this church as He would if here in person

What's that Carb? A box of chocolates and a back rub? Hot dog

Carb just giving out back massages here. @Vort likes the scented oils used with his (hint, hint). To get in on the action, I would consider you two at the upper end of intelligent individuals who post on this forum. I've been impressed at how many people post quality content, while not so surprised at the responses I receive from others

I had a breakthrough earlier when you helped me come to the conclusion that the summation of one's spiritual experiences is not the same as receiving an answer from God on which church is true. The breakthrough is still there for me, but I realize I have another issue related to this topic. Now that I think about this more, I realize my conclusion above is THE VERY ISSUE I have with how missionaries are instructed to help convert others to the gospel (or at least how I understood it to be as a missionary). The church itself suggests feeling the Holy Spirit is how we can know the church is true (no problem here). The church says if you want to know what is truth, ask God, and, if you are sincere and humble, he will confirm to you the truth through the positive feelings of the Holy Spirit. So if I pray saying, "God, is the Book of Mormon true?", and I have a warm, positive feeling, I automatically accept the church as the one and only true church of God? What if after I read the inspirational words of Mother Theresa I pray, "Are the words of Mother Theresa true?", at which time I also receive a warm, positive feeling? Which belief system am I to accept and follow? Should I accept Catholisisim based on Mother Theresa's words? How am I to measure and compare my answers from the Holy Spirit? Maybe I would need to rephrase my question to God. Maybe I should ask, "Is the Mormon church the one and only true church on Earth?" Yes, I suppose this is the proper question to ask especially for someone like me. But how many people in the church accept the church is true just based on asking the question, "Is the Book of Mormon true?" Do you see how an answer to that question alone presents a problem with people saying they know the church is true? Did they ask the right question to really know? Is that question really what they want to base their life beliefs on when it's really not specific enough of a question to know for sure? As missionaries, we were taught to encourage people to specifically ask if the Book of Mormon is true. That's my problem right there. The question is not specific enough. The Holy Spirit will testify of truth wherever it is found whether it be the Book of Mormon, the words of Mother Theresa or even a random inspirational pamphlet that teaches true principles. As missionaries, it makes sense to encourage investigators to pray about the Book of Mormon. It's a baby step. But in many cases the investigator is considered sufficiently converted after receiving an answer to the Book of Mormon. The answer is sort of a crowning moment where baptism is the next step after the lessons have been completed and the investigator is found worthy to proceed. Maybe after receiving a testimony of the Book of Mormon, we are all expected to later ask the question, "Is the LDS Church the one and only true church on the face of the earth?" Maybe it's implied we are supposed to build up to that question. However, I feel like many converts and life-long members to the church don't pray for specific answers to the truthfulness of the church beyond, "Is the Book of Mormon true?" Does anyone else see how it can be incomplete and problematic to not pray for specific answers to the truthfulness of the church beyond, "Is the Book of Mormon true?"

I have a question for any Mormon life-long Utah resident. Is there a general vibe from Mormons in Utah that it is "God's country"? Would you be opposed to living anywhere else? When I moved to Arizona from Texas, a lot of my coworkers and people I met had this notion that Texans had the most pride when it came to claiming their state. Sometimes I wonder if Utahns have more state pride. I lived in Utah for a while when I went to BYU. Since then I've traveled to Salt Lake City a couple times for work. Utah is okay, but I don't think I'd put in in the top places I'd like to live. Personally I like areas where I find a lot of religious diversity and walks of life. Since Provo was nearly 100 percent Mormon, sometimes it made me feel overwhelmed and out of place since I'm use to being the 1 Mormon to every 500 people. This may sound strange to someone who has lived in Utah their whole life, and maybe even strange to others living outside of Utah. Does anyone living in Utah cities with very high-percentage Mormon populations ever feel the need to live somewhere else more culturally diverse? I guess if you've lived in Utah your whole life that probably would never be an issue for you. Just wondering

This is so true. "The church" is a living, breathing organization that, while inspired of God, is entrusted to be run by his valiant, yet imperfect servants. Trusting man with anything always leaves room for error. The Gospel, however, is static. It is was it is. It does not change. The gospel is eternal truth, unwavering in its principles

Good point Even a better point Another good point

OMGOSH! haha did not now this was even in there! Try to compete with that Johnny Lingo and your 8 cows!

I tend to think it comes from me and I need commit myself more to receive an answer directly from God to dissolve this doubt once and for all. I just need to dig deep and find that extra bit of faith and perseverance to receive an answer I guess. That's why earlier I was asking for examples of how prayer has worked for others. I am the world's worst example when it comes to the power of prayer and receiving direct answers from God. But there must be plenty of other people in the Mormon religion who receive direct answers clear as night and day. I just want to hear more about what those experiences are like, what people did in order to obtain those answers, how they may have increased their dedication to the Lord to prove themselves worthy to receive such an answer. Maybe I am just not humble enough? Idk