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Jonah

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Posts posted by Jonah

  1. April 2020 "a hinge point in the history of the Church"

    in LDS Gospel Discussion

    Posted

    On 1/19/2020 at 2:41 PM, Jane_Doe said:

     

    Adding:

    In that regard, it is no different than any other class lecture aimed at people whom are already familiar with the basic material.  It is when people (especially those with a I-want-to-smear-things-agenda) try to skip that foundational understanding (example in this case: Christ and His love/power for His disciples) and just throw in later information.  That's no the Lord's way of doing things.

    A classic example of anti-Catholics doing this would be the "Catholics teach that we should be cannibles!" trope (I can't roll my eyes big enough at that).  

     

    Does that make sense @Jonah?

    Yes. Thanks 

  2. Fasting - some questions

    in LDS Gospel Discussion

    Posted

    20 hours ago, NeuroTypical said:

    The chapter in the Gospel Principles manual on fasting holds a lot of comforting things about its spiritual nature - it has helped more than one person struggling with health problems.

    https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/gospel-principles/chapter-25-fasting?lang=eng

    I read that chapter.

    One Sunday each month Latter-day Saints observe a fast day.

    On fast Sunday, members of the Church meet together and partake of the sacrament.

    But thou, when thou fastest, anoint thine head, and wash thy face; that thou appear 
    not unto men to fast (Matthew 6:16–18).

    Are the blessings the same for people participating in the church's public announcement of a
    dedicated fast Sunday every month versus one's personal fast; when they don't reveal to 
    others they are fasting?

  4. April 2020 "a hinge point in the history of the Church"

    in LDS Gospel Discussion

    Posted

    22 minutes ago, Anddenex said:

    Did the apostles' faces shine in any way like Moses?

    The only person that comes to mind that had a dramatic experience was Saul (Paul) when he
    had his encounter on the road to Damascus.  But his face was not mentioned as shining even
    though he was left blind for a few days.  It is mentioned that a light shone upon or around him,
    but not that he actually saw the risen Christ at that time.

    I searched in the Book of Mormon and see a different reaction therein; where the countenance
    of people and their garments became exceedingly white (even whiter than snow apparently) 
    after Jesus smiled on them (3 Nephi 19:25,30).   What I couldn't determine is if their countenance
    maintained their whiteness for the remainder of their lives.  For Moses, I recall that the shining
    eventually disappeared from his face.

  5. Book of Mormon – Videos and Movies

    in LDS Gospel Discussion

    Posted

    22 hours ago, Vort said:

    I appreciate your thoughts, Traveler. Mine are much the same, though I see Nephi as being much younger, perhaps as young as 10-12 when he witnesses his father first coming home after his vision. I'm supposing he was twelve or thirteen when they left Jerusalem, and no older than maybe 15 when the ugliness with Laban took place.

    What scriptural reference are you using to depict the years between Nephi leaving Jerusalem
    and the Laban ugliness? (killing I presume ...)

    Cheers

  7. Not believing in the traditional Christ

    in LDS Gospel Discussion

    Posted

    On 1/14/2020 at 5:01 PM, Traveler said:

    John Chapter 10

    It is important to note the sequence.  #1 Jesus says that he and the Father are one (there is a lot that can be said of this but lets move one because the extra stuff was not your question)

    #2.  The Jews intended to kill Jesus by stoning - again there is more here but note that they intended to kill Jesus already - the answer to your question is coming.

    #3.  Jesus answers and asked if they intend to kill him because of the good things he is doing

    #4  The Jews say it has nothing to do with his works but because he is teaching that a man (specifically him) can be made into a G-d.  Now the table is set.

    #5 - this is very important --  The answer to your question is in verses 34 and 35 - Jesus answers them by saying that the scriptures clearly teach that men become g-ds - and Jesus adds that the scriptures cannot lie or teach something false.  Jesus says a few other things in following verses about himself being the Son of G-d (which also is not directly pointed to your question).

    What I find so very interesting about the Gospel of John is that John covers the "arguments" between the Jews (Pharisees) in the same format that many of the doctrine of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints are given as prophetic types and shadows with those that alter, change and do not believe as Jesus taught - as in this example; that men can becomes G-ds.  Of course there are other scriptures (teaching man is intended to be "one" with G-d) but for now it is important to note that at the time of Jesus - to say or present the idea of being "one" with G-d meant to become a g-d.  There is always an evolution in thinking or interpreting doctrine taught in scripture - but what do you think the scripture means to be "one" with G-d.  Do you use the meaning that was understood when Jesus taught or has your understanding evolved to something very different?

     

    The Traveler

    I don't see people becoming gods in John 10:34-35.   Do you believe "Ye are gods" is the same thing as
    "Ye will become gods"?

    I could not give a good explanation myself for being one with God, but I found
     https://www.ministrysamples.org/excerpts/BECOMING-ONE-WITH-GOD.HTML

    Cheers

  8. Not believing in the traditional Christ

    in LDS Gospel Discussion

    Posted

    5 hours ago, Traveler said:

    What bothers me the most about the arguments of "Traditional" Christians concerning this unique understanding of conventional rebirth of the spirit of fallen man to be redeemed; is that in arguing against becoming sanctified, pure and G-dly - that we cannot actually become like G-d - that they employ in essence the same arguments of the Pharisees when they denounced Jesus - which BTW was their rationalization for having Jesus crucified - and gives meaning to being crucified with him. 

    If you believe the Pharisees wanted to kill Jesus because he taught humans could become Gods, would
    you provide scripture(s) to lend support.

    Cheers

  9. Not believing in the traditional Christ

    in LDS Gospel Discussion

    Posted

    16 hours ago, prisonchaplain said:

    Primarily the Trinity vs. the LDS Godhead vs. the modalism of Oneness Pentecostals -- at least that's been the focus of this string. Secondarily, did God truly make us his children--able to eventually exalt to godhood--to being as He is? Many Christians, myself included, believe that God is and will always be distinct--forever the one God. Some, like LDS, believe that God's love for us--his desire to commune with us--is so great that we, His children, can truly become what He is.

    Can the "nature of God" include the doctrine that a man can become a God?

    I think it was Joseph Smith who first made such a reference to the character of God in
    the King Follett sermon.

  10. Doctrine and Covenants 122:8

    in LDS Gospel Discussion

    Posted

    19 hours ago, Vort said:

    I'm impressed at your careful reading of a late section in the Doctrine and Covenants, something I hazard a guess that the majority of Latter-day Saints haven't done.

    But in that case, I'm confused at your confusion. What is there to be confused about? This passage seems eminently straightforward to me. Can you elaborate on what you find so perpexing about it?

    Did it mean that Joseph Smith should allow what was going to happen without putting
    up any resistance or do whatever he could to stay alive in light of his days not being
    less than what he thought?

    Cheers.

  11. Doctrine and Covenants 122:8

    in LDS Gospel Discussion

    Posted

    On 12/30/2019 at 11:46 AM, zil said:

    Pretty sure it's more about making a point, reminding Joseph of something, rather than literally asking a simple yes/no question.  He's saying, "Get some perspective, Joseph.  I've been through worse.  I'll help you endure this.  If you're humble."

    I read this on https://www.fairmormon.org/answers/Joseph_Smith/Martyrdom/Joseph_fired_a_gun,

    "Joseph was not guilty of murder, because no one died from his shots, and his 
    actions would have been justifiable as self-defense and defense of others even 
    if deaths had resulted"

    Did the words of 122:7 ("know thou, my son, that all these things shall give 
    thee experience, and shall be for thy good") have any influence on his decision 
    to shoot those who were trying to kill him?

    I'm confused about the phrase in 122:9 ("... for their bounds are set, they 
    cannot pass. Thy days are known, and thy years shall not be numbered less").
    I'm assuming it was said in the context of his being imprisoned.

    What does it mean?

  13. The signs of Christ's birth

    in LDS Gospel Discussion

    Posted

    On 12/18/2019 at 12:49 PM, Vort said:

    If you believe that the "star" was something that hovered in the atmosphere or in earth orbit over Bethlehem, then it would not have been visible at all from most New World locations. If you believe that the "star" was actually a star, or perhaps some other celestial phenomenon that existed far from earth and probably outside our solar system, then it would have appeared in the same relative position in the sky (i.e. with respect to the background constellations) regardless of where you stood on earth.

    Matthew 2:9 seems to depict a star that moved and that movement led the wise men
    to find the exact spot where Jesus was.

    Do you think this was the same star the Book of Mormon mentions?

    Jonah

  15. The signs of Christ's birth

    in LDS Gospel Discussion

    Posted · Edited by Jonah
    added extra part

    3 hours ago, Mores said:

    Then it would help if you actually participated in discussion.  Example: What is your interpretation of what it means?  Is it not fair if I answer your question that you would take the time to consider an answer of your own?

    Hello Mores,

    I expressed my belief to Anddenex earlier.  I'll requote and add a bit.

    I believe the Bible records it accurately when it indicates who saw the star, but one 
    is free to speculate and add other names to the scripture.

    As for the Book of Mormon reference - "And behold, there shall a new star arise, such 
    an one as ye never have beheld"

    I don't know what this means. To me, all the stars in the sky look alike except for
    brightness.  It might have been a different color or flashing in nature ... not sure.

    Another thing not mentioned in the Book of Mormon, maybe inconsequential, is where
    they saw the star - whether it appeared in the west or in the east.

    Cheers

  18. Discussion of Salvation of Little Children by BRM

    in LDS Gospel Discussion

    Posted

    I'm not sure if this passage in Moroni 8 is relevant.

    Behold, I came into the world not to call the righteous but sinners to repentance; the whole
    need no physician, but they that are sick; wherefore, little children are whole, for they are
    not capable of committing sin; wherefore the curse of Adam is taken from them in me, that
    it hath no power over them; and the law of circumcision is done away in me.

    What curse of Adam does Christ remove from children?  And when is it removed - at
    conception or 9 months later?

    Jonah

  21. The signs of Christ's birth

    in LDS Gospel Discussion

    Posted

    On 12/13/2019 at 11:37 AM, Mores said:

    I think it means

    "And behold, there shall a new star arise, such an one as ye never have beheld"

    All kidding aside, what did you think it was supposed to mean.  I don't see anything cryptic about the statement as it is.  What explanation are you looking for?

    Nothing in specific, just your opinion.

    Cheers

  22. The signs of Christ's birth

    in LDS Gospel Discussion

    Posted · Edited by Jonah
    added question

    On 12/10/2019 at 6:11 PM, Anddenex said:

    I assume a better question for you is, why the Bible didn't record everyone who saw the star?

    I believe the Bible records it accurately when it indicates who saw the star, but one is
    free to speculate and add other names to the scripture.

    "And behold, there shall a new star arise, such an one as ye never have beheld"

    What does that mean?

    Cheers.

  23. The signs of Christ's birth

    in LDS Gospel Discussion

    Posted

    I had some questions about what I read in the Book of Mormon about this
    topic.

    3 Nephi 1:15,19

    And it came to pass that the words which came unto Nephi were fulfilled, according as 
    they had been spoken; for behold, at the going down of the sun there was no darkness; and 
    the people began to be astonished because there was no darkness when the night came.

    And it came to pass that there was no darkness in all that night, but it was as light 
    as though it was mid-day. And it came to pass that the sun did rise in the morning again, 
    according to its proper order; and they knew that it was the day that the Lord should be 
    born, because of the sign which had been given.

    When the sun went down at night, what was the source of light that made it appear as if
    mid-day?

    Helaman 14:5 

    And behold, there shall a new star arise, such an one as ye never have beheld; 
    and this also shall be a sign unto you.

    According to Helaman's account, how was this star different from all the others the
    Nephites/Lamanites apparently saw at night while they lived on the American continent
    all those centuries?

    How is it that the Nephites and the Lamanites saw this star when no one but the
    wise men are recorded as seeing this star in the Bible?

    The Book of Matthew, chapter 2, makes several references to this star:

    "Where is he that is born King of the Jews? for we have seen his star in the east, and are 
    come to worship him."

    "Then Herod, when he had privily called the wise men, enquired of them diligently what time 
    the star appeared."

    "When they had heard the king, they departed; and, lo, the star, which they saw in the east, 
    went before them, till it came and stood over where the young child was."

    "When they saw the star, they rejoiced with exceeding great joy."

    According to the biblical record, it seems that the star appeared several times.  First
    before they journeyed from the east, and then after they met with Herod.  Why didn't
    Herod, Mary, Joseph, the shepherds, and others in Israel see this star?

    Jonah