Jonah
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Days Won
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Posts posted by Jonah
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17 hours ago, Carborendum said:
Could this be the symbolism of this story behind the broken bow? Truthfully, I don't care if it was intended by Nephi. I do know that this message is true.
Sorry to hear about your current employment situation. It's tough here too.
What do you believe is the symbolism of the steel bow breaking and that he did not try to
make another like it? Or even the symbolism of him choosing to make a steel bow instead
of a wooden one in the first place?Jonah
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On 4/27/2020 at 1:19 AM, Traveler said:
The only two places that we know that anyone in the Book of Mormon anciently visited in the Americas is Manti, Utah and Palmyra, New York.
Why do you believe that about Manti, Utah?
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16 hours ago, lonetree said:
I know that there have been Latter-day Saints who have played, and, I assume again, perhaps watched
the game on Sundays. Is this compatible (or incompatible)with keeping the sabbath for a Latter-day Saint?
I see from chapter 24 (The Sabbath Day) of Gospel Principles that it says "Our prophets have
told us that we should not shop, hunt, fish, attend sports events, or participate in similar
activities on that day". I don't know if this includes watching sports on tv on Sunday.- JohnsonJones and SilentOne
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I had a question on this section, given on November 1 1831.
"For I am no respecter of persons, and will that all men shall know that the day speedily cometh; the hour
is not yet, but is nigh at hand, when peace shall be taken from the earth, and the devil shall have power
over his own dominion".Could this be a future reference to Revelation 19:19-20 or what there some event soon after 1831 which
sheds light on it? -
20 hours ago, brotherofJared said:
Does the Bible tell us anything about who and where the lost tribes of Israel are? If it were not for the Book of Mormon, they would still be lost.
James 1:1 does not give the impression the ten tribes are lost. How do you believe the Book of
Mormon helps to make the lost 10 tribes now found instead of still being lost?Then there
is the fact that even though the Bible mentions the gathering of Israel, it never
would have been instigated by any religions of the day as it was by the remarkable
journey of Orsen Hyde, who, to my knowledge, is the only person of any religion
to offer a prayer to dedicate the land to the returning of the Jews.Long before the arrival of the Mormon Church, Jews and Christians have been
waiting and praying for God's promise to regather all the tribes into the lands of
inheritance (which is Israel, not America). One does not have to visit the Holy
Land and make a prayer on that soil to have an special effect. Likewise, one does
not have to be specifically baptized in the Jordan River as opposed to some other
river in another country to have the same effect. -
What does the underlined statement mean exactly?
"The Book of Mormon declares the doctrine of the gathering (see, for example, 1 Nephi 10:14).
It causes people to learn about Jesus Christ, to believe His gospel, and to join His Church.
In fact, if there were no Book of Mormon, the promised gathering of Israel would not occur."During our Catholic upbringing, my wife and I also believe the Bible too causes people to learn about
Jesus Christ, to believe His gospel, and to join His Church. As for the underlined statement above,
I found these links showing many biblical passages which discuss the gathering and/or grafting.Hope you can provide clarity.
https://bible.knowing-jesus.com/topics/Gathering-Israel
http://www.bibleresearch.org/prophecybook2/b2w18.html
https://www.gotquestions.org/olive-tree-Bible.html
https://www.gotquestions.org/all-Israel-saved.html
https://www.gotquestions.org/Israel-church.html
http://www.evidenceunseen.com/articles/prophecy/the-regathering-of-israel/
https://endtimestruth.com/israel/the-regathering-of-israel/
https://int.icej.org/susans-blog/what-does-bible-have-say-about-return-jews-their-homeland
https://www.bibletools.org/index.cfm/fuseaction/Topical.show/RTD/CGG/ID/3683/Regathering-of-Israel.htm
http://doctorwoodhead.com/israel-the-barometer-of-bible-prophecy-and-their-the-re-gathering-2/Jonah
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On 3/20/2020 at 1:27 PM, Scott said:
This has happened throughout history.
What happened to the original comandments Moses brought down from Sinai?
How many people weren't ready to listen to Jesus and the apostles?
From a biblical perspective, they did not listen to what was commanded of them.
But I was wondering if there are LDS-only truths or principles revealed to the Latter-day Saints (not
mentioned in the Bible or Book of Mormon) before they (the Latter-day Saints) were ready to accept
and practice them? -
On 3/11/2020 at 11:29 PM, askandanswer said:
Does the length of time between when Joseph Smith was first taught the principle of plural marriage, and the date when he actually started practising it, his hesitancy to start practicing it, and the encouragement he needed from the angel suggest that this was an occasion when the Lord revealed a truth before His children were ready to accept and practice it?
Are there other examples of the Lord revealing a truth or principle before his children were
ready to accept and practice? -
On 3/16/2020 at 5:39 PM, Vort said:
I think our entire approach to this so-called pandemic is wrong-headed and based in a 19th-century-level understanding of microbiology.
Mr. Trump and Mr. Pence repeated on national tv for quite some time that the risk of contracting
the corona virus was very low. Maybe their understanding of microbiology has changed in the
last week. -
On 3/12/2020 at 10:36 PM, Anddenex said:
Remember, the creation of this earth was accomplished by individuals without a body.
Do pre-mortal spirits (who are waiting to be born on Earth) have spirit bodies in the image
of the body of their Heavenly Parents? In Doctrine and Covenants 129:8, does the devil
have a spirit hand but not a spirit body?Jonah
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On 2/7/2020 at 6:27 AM, JohnsonJones said:
Something that's been spread around in recent years are different versions of Joseph Smith's vision. One of the interesting aspects I've noted is that it seems there has been a blending of his FIRST Vision and his SECOND Vision, or...that of his vision when he was visited by the Father and the Son and that when he was visited by an Angel, namely, the Angel Moroni.
I don't know how authentic the Joseph Smith papers are, but one section reveals the
angel's name was Nephi.https://www.josephsmithpapers.org/paper-summary/history-circa-1841-draft-draft-3/20#full-transcript
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20 hours ago, anatess2 said:
It is on Congress to prove his guilt. Now... here’s right back at you - why did Congress not get a subpoena if they want those testimonies?
Congress made a tactical mistake not to seek those subpoenas. They knew that Trump and company
would stall this in the court for years so they rushed it. There is a current outstanding court case for
former White House Counsel Don McGahn to testify. It may get resolved in 2 or 3 years.Seeing that Trump was entering in his fourth year as President and is most likely to win a second term,
they should have let this go through the courts and then try the impeachment some time in 2022 or
2023.Maybe it doesn't matter. Truth continues to trickle out as more emails were released in December or
January. Trump's next battle is to try to stop Bolton's book. Good luck with that. But even if the book
is suppressed, he'll be on the road doing many talking tours. I lost track of all the Trump associates
who are in jail or who will still yet go to jail in the future.The Republicans have seemed to admit that what he did was wrong and inappropriate but not worthy
of removal and that seems to infuriate Trump; who still thinks it was a perfect call. Even after being
acquitted, he is still lashing out on twitter. And now being emboldened by the recent acquittal, he has
fired Colonel Vindman. The purge now begins. Hopefully Romney is not the next victim. -
4 hours ago, anatess2 said:
I called this long time ago.
You can admire his courage if you want. The fact remains - Romney pre-judged this case. That is, he threw the Constitution out to the window with the Democrats and judge Trump Guilty before proven Innocent.
Trump is the only innocent person I ever saw who prevented testimony from key first-hand witnesses
in an attempt to support his case. You figure Mulvaney, Pompeo, Giuliani, and those in Office of
Management and Budget would voluntarily come to the aid of a President under fire (in the Senate,
House, or on FoxNews). At least some Republicans spoke on record that they viewed the President's
actions as wrong or inappropriate. The cat still has McConnell's tongue as he remains silent 🙂 -
On 1/19/2020 at 4:05 AM, askandanswer said:
Any thoughts, comments, questions or answers on any part of these musings would be welcome.
Lehi says in 2 Nephi 1:24 - "Rebel no more against your brother, whose views have been
glorious, and who hath kept the commandments from the time that we left Jerusalem; and
who hath been an instrument in the hands of God, in bringing us forth into the land of
promise; for were it not for him, we must have perished with hunger in the wilderness".Does this mean there was no cloud by day and fire by night provided by God during their
travel in the wilderness and that hunting by weapons was the only provision of food after
the supplies that they took with them out of Jerusalem were exhausted? -
2 minutes ago, Jane_Doe said:
That doesn't really address my comment.
I think you meant "Interesting. I've just never seen a Catholic say Mass was less than anything-- including in my intensive
study of those beliefs"Not sure how to address that except to say that there are various degrees of beliefs in
the church in my opinion; but I never really committed a poll; just based on some personal
discussion with my Catholic parishioners. -
1 minute ago, Jane_Doe said:
Interesting. I've just never seen a Catholic say Mass was less than anything-- including in my intensive study of those beliefs.
My dad is a Catholic from birth. Unfortunately he doesn't really believe in Christ's resurrection 😞
I keep telling him that there would be no church without His resurrection. Only the Holy Spirit can
convert him. -
Just now, Jane_Doe said:
So Mass is lesser?
imo, yes. Another way that I see it is that private worship gives Christians a chance to spend time alone with
God. If I understand correctly, Joseph Smith went into the woods to prayer out loud but by himself. If he
actually saw God, it was quite a blessing. Would he have received the same blessing in a communal prayer?
I don't know. Were any others in his era praying to know which church to join or if all churches were wrong?
I don't know that either. -
1 minute ago, Jane_Doe said:
Would you say that a prayer offering during Mass has lesser blessings than individual prayers because of its communal nature?
(echoing Anatass's question)
I would say a personal prayer in private would bring a bring blessing than a public communal prayer.
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29 minutes ago, ctr2961 said:
Can any one recommend a Book of Mormon Study guide for a Non-Mormon? The more secular the best. Just want the basic ideas about the parables, not tons of testimonies.
I saw "2 Hour Book of Mormon: A Book of Mormon Primer" on Amazon.
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On 1/21/2020 at 5:10 PM, anatess2 said:
This doesn't really jive with Catholic teaching so I'm not sure where this comes from - that idea that personal prayers/fasts/devotions/etc bring more blessings than communal ones. Would you say that a prayer offering during Mass has lesser blessings than individual prayers because of its communal nature? It doesn't make sense to me.
Hi Anatess, we can agree to disagree; as we have different opinions. A personal prayer or alms is
private in nature. I don't observe a designated fast day sanctioned by the Catholic church. I don't
see the early disciples fasting on a monthly basis. The spirit of the law in regards to fasting, imo,
expands to non-food-eating activities. -
Just now, Jane_Doe said:
I totally acknowledge that.
But... honestly I put a lot of thought and time into my response to you, and when I get a <=2 words answer it feels... like things are just going one way here. It's nice to talk WITH people.
Sorry about that. Will try to do better.
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23 hours ago, MrShorty said:
This Christmas was the first time I had heard of the apocryphal anecdote of St. Nicholas "slapping" Bishop Arius at the Council of Nicea over Bishop Arius's view of the Trinity. prisonchaplain mentioned (here in this string or in another) a split within his denomination over Nicean Trinitareanism versus Modalism. It has made me curious just how many schisms in the course of Christian history have been over some detail about the mystery of the Trinity.
I agree with you -- it doesn't seem like these different interpretations of the Trinity merit full schism over. And yet, Christian history is evidence that Christians on the whole have decided that the triune nature of God -- however mysterious and incomprehensible to mortal minds -- is worth schisming over.
Trying to explain the Trinity is too difficult. I have a hard time comprehending that God has
always existed. -
11 minutes ago, Jane_Doe said:
That was a ... short response....
I do hear that complaint ... that we we are cannibals because we are actually eating the body
of Christ (as opposed to the priest who drinks the blood and eats the body). I differ in that
i view John 6:54-56 as spiritual; the Jews took it as literally. -
7 hours ago, mordorbund said:
I've couldn't settle on just one response, so I'll give you all of them and you can tell me which one you like best.
1. You read the chapter. What did you think of the portion that quoted the same scripture you did?
2. The dedicated fast Sunday is the first Sunday of every month except April and October. The next one will be a week from Sunday. Come and see. Come and see if you can pick out the people who are fasting from the ones who aren't. I'll raise the stakes. You have my permission to point the finger of scorn and shout "hypocrite" to anyone who appears to be fasting in the Matthew 6 sense.
3. As a Catholic, Are the blessings the same for people participating in the public announcement of canonical fast periods such as Lent versus one's personal fast; when they don't reveal to others they are fasting? If Catholics don't engage in personal fasts, then does that make all forms of fasting hypocritical as per Matthew 6?
4. I would say that there is a difference, though it is not rooted in Matthew 6. The difference is that on fast Sundays fasting becomes a form of communal worship where the faith of a single congregation becomes unified, while personal fasts are just that - personal. It is the same difference experienced when one engages in congregational prayer versus praying on one's closet.
I'll combine #1 and #3 - I can understand our various church teachings on public announcements,
but in my opinion, I think a personal fast has more blessings. I don't like to advertise my alms.In regards to #2, I don't like to criticize what people consider solemn. In my church, the music is
very liturgical ... quite somber compared to what I see from the evangelicals.In regards to #4, I feel corporate prayer is important, as long as it doesn't follow the pattern given by
Christ in Luke 18:11-14 and Matthew 6:5-6.Cheers
- mordorbund and Fether
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the game on Sundays. Is this compatible (or incompatible)with keeping the sabbath for a Latter-day Saint?
Broken Bow
in LDS Gospel Discussion
Posted
Not sure why you mentioned a rainbow, but I found it mentioned in the teachings of Joseph Smith.
"I have asked of the Lord concerning His coming; and while asking the Lord, He gave a
sign and said, In the days of Noah I set a bow in the heavens as a sign and token that
in any year that the bow should be seen the Lord would not come; but there should be
seed time and harvest during that year: but whenever you see the bow withdrawn, it
shall be a token that there shall be famine, pestilence, and great distress among the
nations, and that the coming of the Messiah is not far distant".
I would disagree with that based on what the Bible said. It was not about the return
of Christ or of famine,pestilence, or great distress among the nations. To explain my
view, I quote the passage in Genesis.
"And I will establish my covenant with you; neither shall all flesh be cut off any more
by the waters of a flood; neither shall there any more be a flood to destroy the earth.
And God said, This is the token of the covenant which I make between me and you and
every living creature that is with you, for perpetual generations: I do set my bow in
the cloud, and it shall be for a token of a covenant between me and the earth. And it
shall come to pass, when I bring a cloud over the earth, that the bow shall be seen
in the cloud: And I will remember my covenant, which is between me and you and every
living creature of all flesh; and the waters shall no more become a flood to destroy
all flesh. And the bow shall be in the cloud; and I will look upon it, that I may
remember the everlasting covenant between God and every living creature of all flesh
that is upon the earth. And God said unto Noah, This is the token of the covenant, which
I have established between me and all flesh that is upon the earth"
Jonah