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And, so I completely understand your reasoning that we should have more national socialist government control of every day quality of life issues. I'm following you completely now! I just needed to understand first how much you trust the government and aren't afraid of them at all and this post has finally convinced me.

Gee, I thought Latin American suffered greatly from dictatorial governments and the like, but I'll play along. Check back with us in a hundred years or two and report back how this goes, will ya?

And yet in the UK he's considered to be right of center (but then again they have already swallowed the heavy tax burden of a lot of socialism including socialized medicine so maybe in that context it's easy to seem "right of center."

Take away one of your Thanks points, that was me hitting it on accident when I meant to hit Quote. Yes, tithing is all you can mention. The proof is here in your blog: I said: I don't know what kind of people you hang around with, but the Mormons I know are very generous with their time and money and "redistribute their wealth" of time, energy, and money through a sacred and trustworthy vehicle -- The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. I suppose it's an option to do so instead through the government, but you have to take everything that goes with that including that absolute power corrupts absolutely, abortions would be free and accessible to all who sought them until the child is born breathing, and more ills. It's very easy to make the argument how your perspective is vitally flawed. You apparently don't trust the church with the sacred tithing money you give it, but I do! You said: Tithing is only 10% of your income and goes to build temples and church buildings not to provide for the poor. "But it is not given that one man should possess that which is above another, wherefore the world lieth in sin" D&C 49:20 That means supporting a system of complete wealth redistribution, at a minimum one should endorse a system that provides the basic essentials to all such as food, clothing, shelter and healthcare. The LDS church is very charitable but the majority of its members are supporting very right wing ideologies which do not support the idea that the poor should be provided for and wealth should should be redistributed. I said: If you only chose to give tithes and no other offerings, maybe that would explain why you think the government needs to be involved to compel you and others to be more giving with what you've been blessed with. It's odd you'd want the government to compel you, though, can't you be a big boy and do it all on your own? And then there's the pesky liberal abortion laws to contend with, the entitlement mentality that would rage in the vacuum you suggest and that sort of thing. It seems to not bother you, but neither does it bother you not to give other offerings to the sacred institution you belong to so I don't follow your logic, but you're entitled to it. You said: ..... Well, it doesn't matter what you said b/c your whole POV is so flawed in the first place it doesn't bear repeating. :D

Rize, YOU are apparently not the one redistributing your wealth to the poor because you can only name "tithing" as how the church already does this in a sacred manner. Honestly, if you can't wear your big boy panties and give willingly to others as it is, why would you want EVERYONE to be forced into submission by the government? I mean, it's clear you are in need of repentance on this, but speak for yourself and quit trying to herd everyone together under the government's control just because YOU can't be more giving yourself. BTW, the law of consecration isn't all about money anyway. You're also free to help others with your able body, should you have been blessed with one, or other blessings that come by way of having a body.

I agree with you Pam....and this Church does not tell us which party to vote forI agree, too. And, I know there are many Democrats in my current ward.

There is no doubt it's harder to keep the spirit during the week because we're out in the telestial world. That's why it's important to keep our homes more reserved from the world, attend church (which is like the terrestrial kingdom), and attempt the temple (like the celestial kingdom). It's important to do the small and simple things we've been commanded to do -- family and individual prayer and scripture study daily, family home evening, and attending all our meetings, offering service, attending the temple, etc. We have to strive to keep ourselves unspotted from the world and teach our children in that vein (if we have children). It really is "that simple" because these things invite the spirit into our lives and homes. Unfortunately we tend to look for a whizzy gimmick so that when someone says look to the serpent and be healed, we're like, "yeah, right" and perish instead of just doing that simple thing.

Well, I about flipped when my teenage daughter came home from school one day and announced she wanted to join the Mormon church. I didn't say "over my dead body" but that was about my opinion. I'm not a bad person and she shouldn't have run away from home b/c I said that (she did not join). I suggest you not treat your wife that way, either, if this is the only thing you disagree about. Let time sort things out. About 3 years after that happened with my daughter, a lot happened in life and I ended up joining the church myself.

It's possible, I suppose, but there is no doctrine to support this that has been revealed.

4wd and offroad are NOT the same thing! True! Of course! The sad thing is with the huge wheels (it came with 1yo when we bought it), it's not much for 4WD, either. Slides in snow. (luckily we live where it doesn't snow)

I totally agree with Palerider. And, would also like to say that maybe your hubby isn't cut out to be the foreman. Just because he's a dependable worker and respected for that doesn't mean he will make a good manager/supervisor. Like Palerider said, he developed a thick skin because you have to. If your husband is sensitive (the "paranoia" seems to hint at that), then he would do himself a favor to being the best worker bee, but passing on management positions. I used to be a program manager with a field team of sexist guys and it stunk. I'm still a PM now, but now with sexist guys. You could not pay me enough to go back to that and if that's all the opportunity there was, I would be happier being a worker bee than the boss.

Do you two need a room? Hehe!

You adapt, you really do. Because you need it, you look for advice and ways to juggle 2 -- just like you did when looking for ways to understand what you were getting into with 1.

In my prior marriage before joining the church, my ex husband could basically not father a child w/o high tech help. We weighed our options and decided donor sperm was not right for us and went with doing IVF/ICSI instead which was successful. I don't know how much different using a donor is than adoption, really, when it comes down to it *except for* you are taking more of a gamble possibly with the donor genetic material than adopting a live child (and also making sure a motherless/fatherless child has the opportunity to join a family). I think you have to be just as honest with the child about donor situations as you are with adoption, anyway. Whether someone else choose to use donors or not ... I can't see that being any of my business.

Haha! :) My one foray in my prissy '04 Durango (and it was a very TINY foray) ended up with a bent somethingorother underneath. 4WD my #$@!Welcome Porter Rockwell! I'm reading his biography now (taking a break from it) and have learned a lot about Joseph Smith and early church history (and the ways his enemies abused the courts/law to carry out their vendetta ).

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my brother!! (and 10% poorer) 90% richer? Under whose authority? I absolutely agree.I'm still in shock that such a congregation exists, though, under the SBC umbrella. Interesting!

Gretchen, I'm sorry for your family's loss. Hope you are able to understand that the love you don't feel is really there (and your grandfather is feeling it, too). I can't answer your legal questions, but freeadvice.com might. They can be kinda harsh there if people don't lay out all the relevant facts, but you can get a better idea of what you might be facing if you pursue legal action.

Tasting the bitter to know the sweet! Glad progress is continuing. :)

I don't like when I feel ignored -- anywhere I go in life -- but I agree with sixpacktr, too, as that could easily describe me. That's why I try to not be hurt/feel bitter when the shoe's on the other foot (sometimes it's hard, though!).

I'm incredibly glad to hear you say that, though many who have posted in this thread would disagree with us. Then I think you have misunderstood what others have said.

Crimson, we definitely disagree and you definitely do not believe the prophet or General Authorities know as much as you do on the atonement. I LOL at Anthony's suggestion to send a ocpy of this thread to the GA for a response. Anthony, it wouldn't matter for anyone that's already discounted what any GA said in favor of their own personal testimony of this issue. I can show you scores of writings that GAs have ALREADY said. Would that change your mind? It's easy enough to search on lds.org. I'm pretty sure I already posted something President Hinckley said in conference this year, but it's not believed by Crimson, for example. I have no mission to disprove Crimson or get into scripture bashing. The matter is settled for me and I'm not turning back to an understanding of God based on darkness when we have the benefit of a prophet, first presidency, etc. Yeah, I'm a sheep. I can assure you, too, that if it was known that CK was proselyting as he is, he would have to answer for this. It's one thing to have your own opinion and quite another to be out preaching against LDS doctrine publicly. This isn't a church of chaos where members are encouraged to preach their own doctrine. There's a big difference between obtaining one's own testimony on an issue vs. preaching contrary doctrine publicly. Anyway .... moving on .... Can I be a bit of a topic changer?There's been a lot of discussion about what the Savior did and where, the LDS POV about what happened vs. other Christian views that the Garden wasn't about the atonement at all, etc. ... but there have been a lot of references to Christ and his father so .... How do non LDS Christians reconcile the whole dynamic going on between the Father and the Son with regard to your belief in the trinity? Is there a father and a son that exist at the same time?

Christmas Vacation. :)

I wonder what more there is to the story, too, not that it changes what the answer is what he should do (good answers already given for that), but if you want to go back to the church, I think you better be honest w/yourself why you left in the first place so you don't repeat the same mistake. And, when you say you resigned ... did you just stop going or did you ask to have your name removed from the records? If the latter, you are like a new convert. That's actually a very special place to be, you can meet with the missionaries to go through the missionary lessons, but then again at some point you won't have that private close tutoring and will have to rely on your own testimony.

Yeah, sure, since CPA is a professional designation/license, but doesn't mean there is a large income -- that would come via a job or business gross profit.