Tough Grits

Is that the stuff in turkey that makes you sleepy????? :lol:

True, but I have thoroughly enjoyed the thought provoking posts and how nobody has resorted to being mean or ugly. Godless: interesting post on Dawkins Spectrum of Probability. I would say that my Dad is---or was---in the range of a 5 or 6 based on our many conversations when I was a child. I was probably in the same range before investigating the Church. In your post you state, "I normally don't like quoting [Dawkins]"...why? I'm just asking out of curiosity. Gosh, I hope I am not contributing to the hijack. I am just enjoying the conversation!!!! ~TG

Yes, yes, and YES. When can I come over to your house????

Holy cow!! I will probably be pummeled for laughing...but I had NEVER heard of Peter Priesthood!!! I had heard of Molly Mormon, but never knew there was a term for the boys!!!! LOL Recently, a family member complained about cliques in the ward. I sat silently listening...thinking in my head that they were invited to MANY, MANY more functions than me and my husband had been. They were the young "it" couple, and here this person was complaining. Go figure. I thought of this---but did not say it to my family member---it is only a clique when you are not included...but when you are included it is just a group of friends with common likes and interests getting together. Luckily for me, I am so busy with college, work, kids, husband, etc. that I don't have to worry about not getting invited by the Molly's or Peter's (LOL). Deep down it still hurts, but at least my excuse is that I am too busy to go anyway. ~TG

I have really enjoyed the comments on this thread! Especially the poem posted by Wingnut, the story posted by Alana, and the insighful post by prospectmom. Dravin's self-proclaimed "tangent" also brought up some interesting points. I have also been frustrated with myself when praying over family meals, and the redundancy of the food giving us "strength and nourishment". We are told not to have vain, repetitive prayers. I don't think my family is trying to do that, I think we just can't be creative and fresh over every single meal...which is 3 meals multiplied by 7 days a week...hmmm...that would amount to a lot of creativity!!!! LOL As humans, I think we just tend to be habitual and repetitive anyway. I remember when my daughter was only 2 or 3, and my husband would go to work at 10:30 at night. Every night I would kiss him at the back door and tell him to be careful. One night---as my daughter stood by watching---when I got to the part about being careful my daughter said, "Yeah, don't step in any ant piles." We both laughed. I guess to a small toddler she thought her daddy needed to watch out for ant piles, as that was her greatest fear when walking outside. She had no idea that I was referring to my husband being careful on the road at night. Either way, my husband wasn't going to be safe just because I told him to be careful, but it made me feel better and it was a way of expressing my love for him. Our prayers do need to be sincere, but sincerity is not lost---I feel---if we occasionally lack freshness in our terminology. Heavenly Father knows our intents. Which is why I like the "conversational" prayers that I have with Him throughout the day. They are completely fresh and based on what I am thinking, doing, needing at that very moment. At any rate, our prayers---formal, conversational, slightly redundant---are all communication with Heavenly Father and are better than the silence of not speaking to Him at all. At least in my opinion. ~TG

Hello mother! So nice to "see" you again. LOL I would give a talk on teaching; how we teach the gospel can greatly impact ourselves and those we teach. If we put the bare minimum into our preparation to teach, then we---and those we are called to teach---will also get the bare minimum out of the lesson. There is no greater call in our Church, than that of a teacher. Whether we are called and set apart as a teacher or not, we are teaching others about our faith every day by our words and actions.

Godless and DigitalShadow: Thanks for answering my curiosity with intelligence and compassion. Though---obviously---I do not agree, I do enjoy conversation that is free from bashing and free from ridicule. Indeed. However, you know where most of us on this site will say where/when it began. Obviously, we believe in one eternal round, and that our spirits existed before coming to earth to inhabit earthly bodies. BTW I believed this when I was agnostic. I just felt that there were certain people I had known before and felt deeply connected to. My father---being agnostic---explained this by believing in reincarnation. As much as I adored and loved my father, that never rang true for me. It was not until many years later and after much investigation of other faiths, that I found the answer to that question. I understand your point of view (believed it myself at one time and listened to my father state as much), but obviously just because a person disbelieves religion does not make that disbelief true either. I say that with sincerity, not as a slam. Again, I believe in this gospel because it rings true for me, not because of fear or the need to belong to a "collective mindset of our species". I was too opposed to the thought of religion for most of my life to jump into a religion for any such reasons. I became a member because what I found in the gospel moved me and spoke to me so profoundly that I could not ignore it. I don't quite know what you consider being consumed or controlled by religion. For me, there is no way to separate my happiness on earth from what I am looking forward to in the eternities. For me, they are not mutually exclusive. I love earth. I love my life. I am happy. If this were the game SimEarth, I would be one of the people walking around with a satisfied bubble over my head. LOL But do you believe that you have a soul/spirit right now? Out of curiosity, what do you feel sparked that soul/spirit into existence within your body, and what do you feel snuffs it out when your body expires? Indeed. Yes, I can appreciate where you would find a greater appreciation for every minute on earth. However, just because I believe in eternity does not mean that I do not appreciate every minute. Both my grandmothers and my grandfather passed away last year. Although I believe that they are in the Spirit World, I miss them terribly and their deaths remind me of how very precious every moment life on earth is. Giving birth to three precious children also allows me to have a deeper, profound gratitude for life and my time on earth. I agree. However, I also know that agnostics or atheists can be loving and kind people who would never do harm or commit evil, my father included. I have enjoyed our conversation. I hope this thread does not shred to pieces in ugliness and contention as other threads have. Peace. ~TG

Thank you for posting this. Part of not judging others, is to not belittle or judge their motives for "being good" or being active in the gospel. Our motives may change over time as our testimony changes and grows. Think of these levels in motivation: have to do it, need to do it, want to do it, like to do it, love to do it. Person A may only pay tithing because they have to, but they read their scriptures every night because they love to. Person B may pay tithing because they like to, but they read their scriptures because they need to. Person A and B may seem different on the surface---and they are different because they are unique spirits dwelling within unique bodies---but just because their motive levels are different does not mean that they are not striving for the same goal. We are all on a journey. Some of us have different goals or different "ends" that we are working towards. As long as we are moving forward and not harming one another, then maybe we should focus less on WHY the person next to us is moving forward, and simply focus on the fact that they are still moving forward at all. This includes whether a person is moving forward towards nothingness, moving forward towards God's Kingdom, moving forward because of Pascal's Wager, or moving forward just because those around them are. Personally, I trust Heavenly Father and His omniscience in discovering our motives out for Himself and judging us accordingly.

Do you feel that those who do not believe in any afterlife are spending their time better than those who do believe in an afterlife? Or do you feel both are spending their time the same? Or do you feel religion does have benefits and does bring good into the world? Or something altogether different? Again, just curious.

I am not an alarmist, but I agree with farmer. I live in the VERY rural, backwoods of southern GA, and my rural neighbors have guns--lots of them---and know how to use them. That can be good or bad. Either situation---backwoods or city---can have its advantages/disadvantages. But out here in the backwoods, gunshots are pretty much ignored, and with so many miles and trees between neighbors, bad stuff could have with no witnesses. Something to think about.

I have been a member of the Church since 1998. In all that time, I have neither witnessed nor participated in any violent or verbal assault towards any other nationality, race, or religion. Of course, that does not mean that ugliness from members towards those outside the Church does not happen. However, in the past 4 months the Relief Society window to our ward has been busted out twice by an object. I live in a very small town of less than 2,000 or so citizens. I live in the Bible Belt. Go figure. Personally, I think some people are evil and they will use any platform, issue, and/or agenda to spew their hatred and filth.

Thank you, Godless, for biting your tongue! If one more person had jumped on me for my attempt at being funny I would have just imploded. I found your post interesting, though. I don't agree, but I was not offended either. Godless, do you truly believe that all the varied religions of the world---that believe something happens after death---are all wrong and are all basing their beliefs on "making death easier to cope with"? Can so many religions really have it wrong in believing in some kind of afterlife? I am not attacking, I am just very curious. Even my father who is agnostic believes in something after this life. I had never met anybody, personally, who thought nothing at all happened after death. I hope you don't mind my curiosity. ~TG

I absolutely agree. There have been many times that I have gone to the Bishopric and let them know that I was getting burned out and wanted a new calling (after a year or two of being in the same calling). Of course, just because I informed the Bishopric of my feelings, does not mean I always got my wish right away. There are other factors to consider, like finding a new person to replace me. I have had people ridicule me for getting burned out so quick in a calling. I am a manic personality. I am all or nothing. So, when I take a new calling I go into over-drive. Then, after about a year I am on fumes...and I simply get BORED. I am not at my best when I am bored. So, yes I have accepted every calling I have been given (I have gotten defensive sneers for that), and there have been several callings that I have requested to be released from because I was burned-out (which I have also gotten criticism for). I guess my point is this: Follow the Spirit...because there are ALWAYS going to be negative naysayers who will judge and ridicule, but if you follow the Spirit and do what the Spirit guides you to do then it should not matter what others say.

Obviously, I can only speak for myself and from my own perspective. My sister died when I was 8, she was 10. Because of her illness---severe spina bifida---I could not play with her or get to know who she was (her spirit). I only knew the broken body that I saw and the restricted mental abilities she had. Even when I was agnostic, I just felt deep inside of me that one day I would know her as she should have been, as her spirit truly was though it was housed in that broken body. To me, nothing would be sweeter than an eternity getting to know that sweet spirit that I never got to know on earth. Yes, her body may have been greatly relieved to expire and become free of her ten years of pain and surgeries, but her spirit was sweet, beautiful and full of life. I just believe that she is in the spirit world enjoying being free from pain and free of earthly restrictions. I believe she is busy doing Heavenly Father's work, and that she will be one of the first to greet me when my own body expires. Part of who I am---and part of what I believe to be true about this gospel---is that we always have agency. However, agency is not free. There is always consequence that accompanies agency. None of us has a perfect knowledge of the Spirit World, or any of Heavenly Father's kingdoms. None of us can say with perfect clarity what the "rules" will be, or what we will be doing. I have my own thoughts, but those are private and are not up for debate. But my own thoughts lead me to believe that I will not be bored, nor will I regret being part of eternity. Personally, I don't think my consciousness has been "static" thus far, as I have grown much, learned much, and loved much in my 35 years upon this earth. I have every reason to believe that I will continue to grow, learn, and love well on into eternity. I don't want to cease to exist. Not because I am scared of dieing, but because I am enjoying myself and I want to keep enjoying myself. I have a deep brightness of hope that I will see my sister again, that I will have the opportunity to be with my loved ones throughout the eternities, and that I will see and stand before the Savior and Heavenly Father. This brings me joy.

SIGH Yes, I am well aware that I did not configure in the MANY different religious beliefs that exist or have existed upon the earth, as I was speaking to Godless. Again, I was just trying to be light. Apparently my humor was not received well. My apologies for all those who are offended.

I guess I deserve that for trying to be light and add some humor. Maybe you missed all my smiley faces??? If you knew me, you would know that I am a good person, and I was a good person even when I was agnostic. Even when I was agnostic I was good simply because I think being good is the right thing. Sorry, I hope my disclaimer now reveals my "integrity". BTW: Even on my best days, I am far from where I want/need to be. I am well aware of my own faults. I thought I should add this in case I get called for proclaiming myself to be a good person. ~TG

Either two things are going to happen when I die: 1. GAME OVER...in which case I won't be able to say Godless was right (), because there will be NO final thoughts, no final images. NOTHING. BLANK SCREEN. In which case, at least I lived a good life. 2. Everything I believe is true. I will face Heavenly Father on judgement day and I will be placed in an eternal kingdom based on my earthly life and choices. In which case, I hope I live my life in such a manner that I get to where I am striving to go. Seeing it in this light...I definitly want to err on the side of caution! ~TG

As I pondered your question, I noticed one of the quotes at the bottom of my signature. I have always accepted the callings given to me, even when I thought I wouldn't do well or when I KNEW I would dislike it (cub scouts). In each instance, my ability to do was increased and I always learned something new about myself and/or about the gospel. Now, that does not mean I fully loved each of the callings.... Though I absolutely learned many things from cub scouting and I grew from that calling, it never became a calling that I loved. I just focused on my love of Heavenly Father, and that helped me magnify that calling and learn to appreciate it and enjoy it, even if I never loved it.

Absolutely! I am always amazed by the power of gratitude. How quickly I feel the Spirit and feel peace when I remember to thank Heavenly Father for all my blessings. Lately, I have discovered an even deeper peace as I have stretched myself to express gratitude in my prayers for my trials and hardships. Events and situations that were once very painful to think about, have now revealed themselves to be great blessings in my life. ~TG

Your concern and understanding for how your family or DW's family will react is sincere and shows your level of compassion. Ignoring the LDS aspect for a moment, I do believe that we all have our own lives to live and our own choices to make...but my love and compassion for my loved ones will hopefully always shape how I inform them or deal with them on certain issues. I would want my child to tell me in person for one simple reason: I would want to be assured that it was THEIR decision and not somebody else leading them or telling them to make that decision. There are members who have "left" without having made any formal declarations. Sometimes I wonder if there are members who still attend church, but "left" long ago in their hearts. I would still love my kids, even if they "left", and I would make every effort to love them and embrace them on their terms, as long as they did not ask me to leave or ask me to give up what I know to be true. Of course, I would silently hope and pray that they would come back, but I would be very careful not to let my silent desire interfere with my relationship with them or push them away with an arrogant "holier than thou" attitude. At least, that is how I hope I would act and behave were this situation ever to present itself. It would crush me to know that I was the reason my kids didn't want to be near me. I also want to be a grandmother one day, and I would hate losing out on that because my kids felt I was judging or condemning them. That is not my place. My obligation is to do the best I can while I have them (in all areas, not just the gospel), and then let them take everything I taught them and make a life of their own. I know they are going to make bad choices. I have. But I am just going to have to learn to be there for them when they come running, and to learn to be silent and say silent prayers when they don't come running. That, I feel, is the hardest part of being a good parent. ~TG

I agree with the answers that have been given, especially Pam and skalenfehl. Prayer is personal. Prayer is also something that can be our communicated thoughts, as skalenfehl mentioned. My children and I pray every morning in the car before we head to school. We pray together at night. We pray over our meals. Those are our main prayers, but there are many times during the day when I offer quick "spur of the moment" prayers. These quick prayers can be prayers of thanks or prayers that ask for healing to those I just found out were sick or prayers for myself when I am getting too stressed or upset at something/somebody. However, I also find myself "talking" to Heavenly Father throughout the day/week just as a means of conversation and letting Him know that I love him even when I don't need/want anything. Does that make sense? ~TG

Some serious aspects of our religion and beliefs have been brought up in this thread. What a wonderful opportunity for each of us to step up and share what we know to be true with love and gentleness. However, it does nobody any good to express doctrine or principles with sarcasm, flippancy, or hostility. The spirit cannot teach in that manner.

Maybe a sign of good mental health is to, in fact, admit to your own insanity...LOL LOL

Without question, partaking of the sacrament is crucial to our spiritual health and well-being...but we are constantly reminded that all things in the gospel are important...not just the things we choose to single out as being important. Yes, the sacrament is vital and important, but if that was the only thing that mattered then Heavenly Father would have provided a way for the Priesthood to administer the sacrament within our homes so that we could all avoid each other and remain in our own family cliques. We all have our agency. We can either use it to stretch ourselves (which often involves leaving our comfort zones) or we can shrug our shoulders and only do as little as we want to do. If we can't be friends to each other, how are we then to be friends with those of other faiths? If we are not friends to those within our church and/or outside of our Church...then how are sharing our testimony or the light of Christ? Friendship is like a bridge...it allows us to exchange ideas, thoughts, and feelings within the bonds of trust. Maybe this is exactly what Satan wants, for mankind to forget the art/talent of friendship. In the last days, good things are going to be made to appear as evil, and evil things made to appear as good. If we are not fellowshipping and extending bonds of friendship, then we make Satan's work SO much easier. If we think of ourselves as a chain, and we are all linked together as children of God fighting a common enemy (Satan), then wouldn't we only be as strong as our weakest link? Isn't the goal to have ALL of God's children return back to Him? How can we do that if we are not reaching out and grasping on to the person next to us and helping them to remain strong against the attacks of Satan? This is a real war...and I can only hope the the person standing next to me is one who is not afraid to reach out and grab my hand and help me fight Satan.

Why, oh why, can't I press that Laugh button more than once?????? This one was worth pushing the button 3 times!!!!! :lol: