Tough Grits

I understand, and I agree.

Would it help if you spoke to the primary teachers or youth Sunday School teachers and leaders that you do not want your children to go to the restroom without other youth or primary leaders escorting them? Could you make sure your children went to the restroom before and after sacrament so that the need to use the restroom during the other meetings would be reduced or eliminated? Obviously you can speak to your children and give them guidelines and safety tips, not just for this instance, but for all situations. I am 38 and I still check my surroundings when entering an unfamiliar restroom.

I hope I may offer a sincere answer without seeming flippant or dismissive in my words. Maybe such a ward should be thankful for the one pedophile that they know about. For then they can be on their guard and know with whom their children should not be left without supervision. As was mentioned earlier, it could be worse...there could be a pedophile that nobody in the ward knows about. I hope that didn't sound dismissive, for it was not intended that way. I am merely trying to find a positive in a situation for which there does not seem to be a positive.

What should be the punishment for pedophiles and rapists? Jail for life? I have a problem with that, because they are being supported by taxpayer money to be housed and fed for the rest of their lives. Death penalty? I am not sure how I feel about this. Wouldn't death be easier for them than being tortured and abused in jail by the other inmates who detest pedophiles and rapists? Castration? Well, as mentioned...this isn't just a physical illness, it is a mental illness that can be satisfied in means other than the castration would prevent. Torture? As mentioned above, this is a mental illness...and torture will not remove the sickness from their minds. Serving their time and paying their debts...is this even possible? How do we quantify the time a person should serve for their sexual crimes? Are you ever "paid up" on your debt for destroying innocence? The only person who can accurately judge punishment is God, because He knows the intents of our hearts, our thoughts, our words, and our deeds. He also knows the trauma caused by those we hurt. He alone can dispense justice with absolute, perfect authority and accuracy. So, where does that leave us?

I have no way of knowing if my relative was abused. It makes me sad to think he might have been, because that means he was introduced to something that damaged him. Hear this, I do not think that condones the choices HE made, but I do think it matters. Oh, these terrible ripples that are created by the evil one who wants so bad to take us all down like a row of dominoes. Yes, I may be slightly more sensitive than the average person, maybe not...is there a scientific way to gauge that? I do know this, the line of abuse stops with me. I will take my sensitivity any day, because it helps me to teach my children (not in fear or paranoia, but in love and stewardship), and it helps me to be cautious with other people's children. But what if all my teachings and precautions aren't enough and something happens to one that I love? I will have to find the faith to forgive. I will use my experience to help guide me in supporting and loving my loved one, and in helping them to become a survivor like me and not a victim. And as it is with me, I will pray that the abuse stops with them...and that they do not carry it forward to others. This is such a deeper issue than it seems on the surface. It isn't always about anger, or lynch mobs, or hate. I have seen lots of love and compassion in this thread, and much thought as well. I just wanted to say that I do think about whether abusers had an abuser of their own. If so, this brings me sadness for them too.

In my opinion, there is only one mentality...a sick mind. There is no way for me to know if my relative abused anybody other than family. I think it would be naive to assume that he would not have abused a non-family member if the perfect opportunity presented itself. Abusers, in my simple opinion, only have one thought...to satisfy the urge with whatever opportunity presents itself. It just happens that family members are often abused because they are easy, familiar, and readily-available targets.

BadWolf, Your post makes sense. I can totally see that happening. And because people are trying to forgive and move beyond the offender's past, they will refrain from telling others what he was (or is), thus making him seem safe. SIGH God is omniscient. As such He knows what this person will or will not do, or if this person has changed or not. So, that still leaves us back at the original question...what do WE do. Thankfully we have the Holy Ghost to help lead and guide us individually. For certainly this is a matter for prayer, pondering, and the guidance of the Holy Ghost.

Estradling75, My original post was not to you. I was speaking to another member directly. You quoted what I said to her and added things that I did not say. I do not want to discuss this any further with you in public. I have already sent you a private message. I will not participate in a public back-and-forth. Much love ~TG

Thank you for your response, but I think you need to re-read my words. I stated that there should be no negativity on this thread. If person lacks understanding then they should ask for clarification. I stated that those who had not been touched by this issue should "speak gently" or not speak. I said that this was not the place for "in-your-face opinions". Please re-read my post. I am sorry that you are upset, but I was trying to remind others to speak kindly and gently and that there is no need to argue or become ugly. Much love ~TG

HA HA Totally got caught up in her words, that I forgot what the title was!!! LOL I was just thinking that I had been sinning all this time or something!!! :lol: Is it nap time yet?

So, we can't question the manner that somebody is addressing us if that person happens to be a moderator? Here in the south we have a saying: "Right is right, and wrong is wrong."

I think that is awesome. They are accomplishing two things, fellowshipping and protecting. Hopefully they were able to maintain both. I agree. A very delicate balance indeed, huh? Our first line of defense, as parents, should be to teach our children about safety from the time they can understand spoken words. Then our second line of defense is to be as vigilant as possible. The third line of defense is to let the Lord handle the rest, and to give us the strength and grace to handle what ever comes our way.

I have always told my kids that the gifts come from their hard-working parents and other family members. I never wanted to lie to my kids about things like Santa, Tooth Fairy, or the Easter Bunny. I was afraid that when they found out that I lied about those characters that they would think I made up religion too. So, I always told them the truth. But I allowed them to still choose to believe in those things if they wanted to, and to NEVER tell other children who believed that it wasn't true. I still believe in Loch Ness and Big Foot, so who am I to burst anybody else's bubble? In our home at Christmas the focus is Christ. One year we had no tree, no lights, and no decorations. We discovered that we still had the Spirit and we were still celebrating Christ without any of it. This year, I covered anything that didn't move in the front yard with lights! Guess what? We still had the Spirit and we still focused on Christ. By the way, the Easter Bunny bothers me WAY more than Santa. What does a bunny have to do with the Savior's death and resurrection? And why are we celebrating a rabbit that goes around stealing eggs and then hiding them?

I do not feel you need to apologize for your feelings. You are the only one who has walked in your shoes. If others do not understand, then that is not something you need to apologize for. I agree with you that there should be no negativity on this thread. If a person does not understand, then they should ask for clarification with humility and respect. I feel that those who have not been personally touched by this issue, should either speak gently or they should refrain from speaking. This is not the place for "in-your-face" opinions. I hope you have found peace from whatever you have had to face in your life involving this topic. For the most part, I have found peace. I have learned to take my experience and turn it into a mission to teach my own children how to be safe. Lots of love ~TG

I did not know this. I only buy bras in two colors, white and black. I wear white bras under my lighter clothing and I wear black bras under my darker clothing, but I wear my bras over my garments. Why would it matter if my bra is black or white? Am I the only one who didn't know this?

Taking the innocence away from a child is nothing like a person being addicted to drugs, therefore refraining from committing future acts of child abuse is nothing like a person refraining from taking drugs again. I was molested by a family member. After YEARS, I finally learned that he had had inappropriate behavior with his own daughters. By the time he got to me, it was no longer weird or inappropriate behavior. It was much more. Then he got to my cousin after me. Heroine hurts mostly who? The user. However, sex crimes hurt OTHERS. How can a person who is constantly battling images of sexual acts NOT touch, NOT to try expose themselves, NOT seek to find release? The very nature of their sick desire revolves around OTHERS. I think that others can be polite and they can be respectful, but unless they have been abused, or unless they are the parent of child who has been abused, then I personally feel they truly have no idea of what they speak. Did I wish my relative dead? No. Was he ever arrested? No. Did he ever "get better", obviously not. Decades of abuse with close family members proves that. Was he a member of the Church? Yes. Did that cure him? No. Did I forgive? Yes. I actually loved him. He was a close relative, though I won't say how close. As I got older I learned how to protect myself. I learned to warn everybody in the family. Guess what? That was out of love too. Love for the sinner in this case does not mean we allow that person the opportunity to abuse another. We have to have love for the innocents around us who we could prevent from becoming another victim. In my family nobody spoke up until me and my cousin. She told her parents because--as her older cousin--I told her she HAD to. For the first time in decades something was done. I forgave this person for what they did to me...but I never forgot. I NEVER left my children alone with him. I NEVER left an opportunity for my children to become a victim. Love for him? Yes. Love for my children? Absolutely, because I didn't want them to endure what I endured. Love and forgiveness does not mean an absence of common sense. But do I believe in my heart that this person could ever reform...no. A smoker can stop smoking. A drinker can stop drinking. A drug user can stop using drugs. But a sexual offender CAN NEVER get the images of past deeds out of their minds. They cannot stop the mental images that will come to their minds in the future. Satan will never stop attacking their minds or fantasies until they strike out again and harm another innocent. Has anybody made the connection of what we are talking about here to pornography? Why is that so destructive? Because it shows images of acts that should not be watched, but it also opens doors that can NEVER be closed once opened. The TV can be turned off, the book or magazine can be thrown away, but the images can never be erased from the mind. I am so very glad that there are people who just don't understand---because that means that they have never had to endure being the victim of a sexual crime, nor have they had to endure the pain of a loved one being the victim of a sexual crime. I don't wish that on anybody. However, I cannot deny this one truth---this type of perversion in NOT like being a drug addict. There is no cure. If you think there is a cure, and that a pedophile can refrain from committing any future acts, then would you be willing to risk the innocence of a child to prove your theory? Would you be willing to stake the innocence of a child that you know--or any child for that matter--on your belief? Not me. There is no child on this earth that I would be willing to offer as a sacrifice to prove if a "former" pedophile can truly be rehabilitated and reformed. By the way, I am not a closed-minded person. I had no agenda when writing this. I just wrote from the heart with no anger or malice. I do know what forgiveness is, because I have forgiven what should have been unforgivable. I do know what love is, because I have loved one that I should have been excused from loving. But I know the Lord says to forgive all things (I have) and to love all (I did) and that vengeance will be His (and it will).

I really like the simple truth of this comment. Truth IS simple. Truth makes sense, and it feels right. This is the heart of what I have been thinking lately: making this sublime truth more than just something I feel and know to be true. I want to become this truth. I want to be the person that if the Lord asked me to leave all that I have and all that I know behind to follow him with nothing but the clothes on my back I would say, "Yea Lord, I will follow thee," and immediately leave all and follow him...without even looking back or hesitating. The thing is--he has asked this of me. Every day he asks this of me. Okay, I don't literally have to leave my home, job, husband, and kids behind. But that should shame me even more, because he is asking me to follow him without actually having to leave my home, job, husband, or kids. I get to follow him without having to give up very much of the comfortable things in life! This is the point in my thoughts where my mind hurts and my heart trembles...because I can just see what it is that he wants of me...and can just sense what it is he wants me to become, and then I realize that I am not there yet and that I lack much before I have the discipleship and the followship of some of the inspiring people recorded in scripture. Yet I do not give up. Realizing my own smallness and my own failing does not make me shrink from the Lord. Instead, I know I need him even more! The more I see how pitiful I am without him, the more I want to know him and become like he is. If we liken the scriptures to ourselves, then all those comments he makes to the hypocrites, the slothful, the worldly, and so forth must needs be applied to ourselves! I take his chastening of those in scripture as a chastening to ME. Instead of making me sad or mad, it makes me want to fix that failing and move beyond it...so that I am one more step closer to him. I know he loves me, but I want him to see himself within me, within my thoughts, within my words, and within my actions. Tall order, huh? It is time for scriptures. I have to go. But I am thankful for this thread. I have been able to get so many thoughts out that have been swirling within my simple mind lately. ~TG

I have been thinking about this quite a bit lately. I didn't join the Church until I was 24. Before that I was agnostic. I didn't just have to learn what it meant to be LDS, but I had to learn what it meant to be Christian. I had to accept the Bible as well as the Book of Mormon. I had to learn about who Christ was and why it mattered. I know who he is, I know what he did for me, but after 14 years of membership...is my relationship with him any deeper than before I learned of him? Would I have been the one leper out of 10 that turned back and thanked the Savior for the healing? Would I have been the woman that had enough faith to know that just touching his robe would heal her? Would I have been the centurion that had enough faith to know that his servant would be healed just by the Savior's word? Would I be willing to leave everything behind to follow him (family, friends, livelihood, home...)? I no longer worry about my knowledge of him. I am consistently learning about him, thinking of him, and teaching my children about him. Now I am trying to figure out how to turn that knowledge into something that emanates from me, something that others can see in my countenance. I think I will know more about my relationship with Christ when I can learn to be more like him, when I can take my knowledge and turn it into consistent, sincere action. If discipleship is supposed to help us to smooth our rough spots and become polished, then I am still a rough stone. Hopefully, as I seek to understand what a personal relationship with Christ means, my roughness will turn smooth and I will be sufficiently refined to enter into God's presence. With God all things are possible...even turning "tough grits" into smooth grits! :)

Every member has the right to speak when prompted by the Spirit. I am referring to our classes, our auxiliary meetings, and out in the world among friends, family, and co-workers. In these situations it is not always possible or necessary to run and find the nearest bishop or stake president. However, it is true that the teachers in Sunday School and Primary are responsible for teaching and correcting doctrine, as well as auxiliary leaders in our HP, EQ, and RS meetings. But that is not to say that a member should refrain from participating in the discussion when prompted to by the Spirit. Many truths can be added, and should be added, by all members when prompted. The Spirit would not prompt a person to speak if it was not God's will to do so. Better to have someone follow the prompting, if given, than for everybody or anybody to ignore it and an investigator or member go home confused, hurt, or offended. This is why the Spirit dwells with those who are worthy, regardless of calling, so that all may learn, all may participate, and all may be edified. May I mention that this is also why members should also be engaging in regular gospel study. Too many members only read their scriptures when called upon during lessons and classes on Sunday. Too many members depend upon others to give them gospel instruction. Too many teachers only study their lesson the night before or in the morning during sacrament. Too many speakers prepare their talk the night before or hours before sacrament. There have been a few times in my 14 years of membership that I have come home with a troubled heart by something that was said, and NOT addressed in Church. When I came home I pondered the matter, researched it for myself, and/or discussed it with my husband. Although I did not like incorrect doctrine being taught, I was VERY grateful for the ability and responsibility that I had to ponder and investigate the matter for myself. In the end, my testimony ended up being strengthened on that very gospel principle or doctrine that had been incorrectly taught. I believe in proper priesthood authority in all things. I know that members are responsible for studying and learning the gospel on a regular basis and developing a personal, lasting, and real knowledge of God and Jesus Christ that is not dependant on what they hear in Church on Sunday. I also know that the Holy Ghost would never direct us to do anything contrary to God's will, because the Holy Ghost only directs us by and through God's will. So, any member, when directed by the Spirit, may speak the truths that God would have others to hear.

There are no priesthood present during the Relief Society meeting, but that doesn't mean that our meeting runs rampant with false doctrine and untruths. Every member has the obligation and responsibility to teach and preach truth and to correct or dispel falsehoods whenever prompted to do so by the Spirit. The Holy Ghost is the "key". If that does not satisfy...then LDS.org has a topical guide and search tool that can provide hours of researching satisfaction. ~TG

I have attention problems. I try my best to be respectful and to have peaceful thoughts about the person responsible for sending my mind to another planet, but I don't sleep during sacrament. I struggle with being able to pay attention unless the speakers are engaging and are teaching correct doctrine. Jokes, personal stories having nothing to do with the gospel, personal shout-outs, long teary crying over nothing gospel related, and disorganized speakers send me into La La Land. Once-in-a-while I have to nudge my hubby, but that is not often. And sometimes my son (9) drops his head back on the back of the pew and falls asleep with his mouth wide open. That is disappointing, especially when we sit on the front row. Oh well, no Molly Mormon award for me. LOL

Yep! Here are my teams: 1. Miami Hurricanes / Florida Gators (which ever has the best chance to take it all!!!) 2. Georgia Bulldogs 3. BYU (because of my husband...his dad and sister graduated from BYU)

You know, Pale, some of us on here are from Georgia!!! But that's okay, 'cause I can't stand my own team!!! LOL Actually, I am originally from Florida and rooted for the Dolphins my whole life, and a FAT lot of good it did me...huh? I like college football better. Hurricanes, Gators, Seminoles, DAWGS!!!!! WOO HOO, GO DAWGS!!!!! My chances of having a winning team are better in college football. LOL LOL

You guys are just killing me with that rodent!!!! Keep it coming! LOL :lol:

I don't know, which is why this question is something that I reflect upon quite often. But your comment hits the nail on the head of what I am struggling with. Example: I still smile at these people that I am distancing myself from when our eyes make contact, I speak when spoken to, and I have no malice in my heart for them. I just don't encourage or seek prolonged conversation or contact with them, or invite them over to dinner. We are told that we can choose which direction we will go, but we cannot choose the consequence of that choice. Somebody hurts me repeatedly--->the consequences is that I distance myself. I distance myself from them--->the consequence is that they may be hurt by my distance, if they even notice it in the first place. On another thread the discussion was raised about the "ranking" of sin. I think the most important sin that we must combat in our lives, is the one that preys upon our greatest weakness. I do not commit any of the major sins that most people think of, but I worry that I lack charity when I distance myself from others. Which, is a big thing to lack or to fail to display towards others. So, how do I display appropriate charity without repeatedly subjecting myself to cruel people? I have spoken one-on-one with these two individuals. I have explained how their words and the things they do hurt. They still do them. So, do I have no recourse? Am I not allowed to choose those that I will allow into my inner circle? Round and round I go.