mnn727

I don't doubt that somebody somewhere could possibly do that since we LDS are just people like everyone else and we're not perfect, but "The Church" whether the main leaders or local leaders would not do that. I agree with the above poster saying "If someone left my church over doctrinal issues, and had made some noise in doing so, I doubt I would have to say anything. Members would likely not be comfortable doing business with someone who had publically disassociated with what they believe." especially if they were very vocal about it -- Sometimes you just get sick of people cutting down your beliefs everytime you see them and you start avoiding them.

FYI, yes they do let emergency personal in, if the medical emergency happens during a ceremony it is put on hold until the emergency is handled. They will get patrons out of the way and have people posted to provide quick and easy and direct access for the emergency personal to the person needing attention and to keep patrons from wandering into the area.

You have your interpretation/opinion of scripture and I have mine, you can't argue interpretation or opinion. I see that verse you quoted as ample proof of my veiwpoint and apparently you see it as proof of yours. You have proven nothing to me to support your argument, and I have proven nothing to you, we are at a stalemate - hence my saying we will have to agree to disagree. I guess we could degrade to calling each other names I guess, but thats about all thats left and I for one will refrain.

....or we can think we know

We have to agree to disagree on this one.

There is much speculation about this -- why? I don't know. Cannonized Scripture say Mary was a Virgin -- end of story in my opinion. As far as how spirit children are created, its never been revealed - having said that, there is a verse (quoted below) that says we were with God in the beginning and not created, so my speculation on the subject is that the process is more akin to adopton than birth - but again, thats my personal speculation and if I found I was wrong would be no big deal.

Why not, that was Satans plan, are you saying that Satan was more powerful than God. God could take away our agency and force us all to become exalted - of course in doing so it would be an empty victory all around.

Exactly, Satans plan would have brought everyone back by forcing them to be rightous - this plan was rejected by our wise Father in Heaven as it would have prevented our freedom to choose.

God could force us to do whatever He wanted us to, but then there would be no sense in this earthly existance for us, we are here to learn and grow and freedom to choose is a required part of that growth, even if its bad choices and wickedness, In order not to force us God had to wait for conditions to be right, he knew they were coming and he knew that those that died never hearing the gospel would have a chance in the spirit world to hear it. Satan wanted to force us, God allows us freedom, even if he knows we will mess up. The apostacy was mankinds fault. God restored teh fullness of teh Gospel as quickly as He could without trampling over mankinds agency

I believe Brigham Young was the first that came close to saying it, subsequent leaders of the Church also hinted at it - although not one, not even Brigham, ever came right out and said it, so its all open to interpretation, as far as your quote, Luke states it differently and I believe clairifies what Matthew said : So the Holy Ghost makes it possible for the Highest (God the Father) to make her conceive, thus Jesus is the Son of God, not the son of the Holy Ghost

Sorry, but that is not true, the FP and the Qof12 can create new or change existing doctrine. We have no say in the matter other than whether we individually will follow it and sustain it or not.

I have to clairify the statement "it is voted on in a general conference" this is not a 'yes we want it', 'no we don't' type of vote. it is a sustaining vote, do we personally sustain it or not. If it gets to a sustaining vote in general conference, its a done deal, we can either accept it personally or not, but its still in effect for the Church whether we accept it ourselves or not.

Let me give you a quote from a former (deceased) Apostle that speaks to this very question. He was talking specifically about the revelation allowing Blacks to have the Priesthood in 1978 but I think it really gets to the heart of what to do when a current Prophet says something different than deceased Prophets. This is from Elder Bruce R McConkie of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles given in 1978 I hope that helps your understanding of how the Church works (or should work)

When I joined the Church 16+ years ago, I didn't really know about this whole 'modern day Prophet' thing, it took me a while to agree with it. Now when you stop to think about it, if the Book of Mormon is true and Joseph Smith translated it by the power of God (cause it wasn't a translation in the normal sense of the word with someone sitting down with a xxxx language to English dictionary and translating it word for word or concept for concept), the Joseph had to be a Prophet. Also, this polygamy thing bothers some people but never bothered me. Frankly, you don't need to believe in or even understand it as we no longer practice it, It was a practice that ended over 110 years ago, why is it still something people have a hard time with? - I just don't understand it.

I have to comment on the Joseph and Jesus on the judgement seat.I hope you understand that to mean it the same way Jesus in the Bible says the 12 original apostles will judge Israel and not that we believe Joseph is equal to Jesus - we don't.

God the Father is the Literal Father of Jesus, how that was accomplised we do not know except for "by the power of the Holy Ghost"The problem comes when someone tries to figure out what someone long dead was trying to say when they said "Jesus is the literal son of God the Father' and they attach their own meaning to it. To answer your question though, yes I know of at least 2 members personally that believe God and Mary had sex because they disagreed with me in a class where I said we just don't know and I had the doctrine to prove it (cannonized scripture), they just had a statement from a long dead leader that COULD be interpreted that way, but never actually came out and said it.

Perhaps you should try reading what I actually wrote and stop trying to put words in my mouth and above all stop trying to tell people what they have done and not done. Brodie is a lousy writer/researcher in my opinion that decides what she wants the data to say before she does the research, its what a lot of people think about her, and not only about her book about JS -- deal with it.

Gee Bartertown, because someone disagree's with your opinion. it means they couldn't have possibly read any of her books? Give me a break!

Brodies style is such that the book she wrote about Thomas Jefferson was ripped by other historians, she starts with her conclusion first and then chooses only facts that support it.

There was a reason I don't post here much - time to go back to the more professional boards.

Couple of real funny guys on this board

You've broken all rules of courtesy, and you're font is annoying to people that post on multiple message boards and actually know and follow the 'common rules of message boards'-- how you ever became a "head moderator" is beyond me. Unfortunatly since you are, I can't even put you on ignore.

43 states in the U.S. and 2 provinces in Canada. Thats it, I have no desire to go elsewhere in the world.

Perhaps youi should change your screen settings, its easy to do, ask if you want help doing so.

Why don't you stop shouting? Your use of bold and large type in no way means that what you are saying is more important than anyone elses.Someone shouting shows to me that they might be incapable of acually carrying on a rational conversation or that they could care less what anyone else says as theirs is the only opinion they care about.