zil2

You can only do it if their name is high enough on the list to select. For some reason, a space stops filtering the list. But apparently it's a moot point - Little Nipper was banned.

They last visited 4 hours ago. Sometimes tagging user names can be weird, especially when they have spaces in them, and especially in a mobile browser. Anyway, I too hope they stay.

Nice to see you again, PC.

Dude. Daddy Hinkle's original. You'll never look back.

Yeah, can't think of anything to add - the History of the Church ref that the record was there seems reasonable to believe (and is verifiable), but Ludlow doesn't tell us why he thinks Joseph Smith actually completed the translation of the book of Joseph (as opposed to intended to, but not having time, or some other interpretation / understanding of the HotC quote).

Maybe the space and time we know, but it's absurd to think that there was ever a point when there was neither space nor time anywhere - in other words, never and nowhere have never existed. IMO, this principle applies to all, not just our world or universe.

High Divers is the worst yet. Don't even bother trying it. Maybe I should see if they'll hire me to proof their puzzles... [later additions] Ice Cream for Snack can almost be completed, but two of the people cannot be matched with a "1st Flavor". The Music Man (appears to require you to make assumptions about music and use said assumptions rather than actual clues). IMO, logic will not solve this puzzle, only familiarity with the songs and instruments presented...

Thank you! So nice to know I'm not losing my logic-puzzle fu!

I'm starting to question this one. So far, I have found two puzzles that I believe are "broken": Christmas Dinner (the clues force a conflict - two people ordering the same meal, one explicitly identified, the other having no other option) Copycat Burglar (The clues are such that you cannot figure out the height of two paintings, or alternately, their rooms, and thus you cannot solve the puzzle) If anyone can point out to me something I missed, I'd be happy to learn it! (These aren't even that hard of puzzles - I'm just certain they're wrong. There was another where they mentioned in the clues something or someone that wasn't in the grid, but that was easy to solve despite their error.)

I'm OK with God organizing what exists within the universe. I'm also OK with there being many universes. I'm OK with there being a universe of universes. I'm OK with reality being so far beyond our capacity to imagine that we might as well believe that our universe is contained within a locker of someone's bus station, or inside a marble hanging from a cat's collar... I'm also OK with folk exploring whatever interests them, but... If one wants to understand God's nature, study the life and teachings of Jesus Christ and do your best to imitate them.

I'm going to let @laronius take the lead on your main question and make a point or two: I emphasize what @laronius said: We believe in more than the Bible, ergo we are not limited to the Bible in explaining the source of our beliefs. Our belief in other scripture and on-going revelation gives us a different understanding of the meaning of some Biblical scripture. (This means in part that we may present a Bible scripture in support of our beliefs and you will most likely say, "No, that means [something else]." Which is one reason I tend to not bother - it gets old fast because there's rarely a discussion or demonstration of a desire to understand, only a knee-jerk, "No, you're interpreting that wrong".) If your desire is to argue that LDS beliefs are wrong, or to convince the forum members that it is, or to convert LDS forum members away from our beliefs, you've come to the wrong place. Those here are strong in their faith and aren't going to be swayed by your arguments. You will quickly get frustrated and interaction will stop. If your desire is to understand and be understood, you will have more useful discussions if your questions are framed as, "Why do you believe ...?" rather than "Defend your beliefs using only my belief system!" (aka "Where does it say in the Bible that ...?") @prisonchaplain, an evangelical pastor who has been a moderator here for ages (though less active recently), is a great example of how someone firm in a different set of beliefs can interact in a friendly manner with LDS - I've even seen him correctly explain to others what we LDS believe. (And I've watched his YouTube Sunday School lessons wherein he (a time or two) finds fault with LDS belief, so no one need assume he's come over to / been corrupted by the dark side...) Wishing you all the best and hope the discussion is helpful!

Ah, he promotes breaking out your fountain pen to write your Ebenezer!

My life is complete. If you don't hear from me again, you'll know that God agrees and has taken me home....

OK, fine, throw in a watermelon, but I think my pony-dragon will want something more to eat...

Drat! I have a fountain pen, now all I need is a sword and a dragon and my life would be complete!

While reading to make sure I hadn't made any mistakes, this reminded me of this scripture, so here's another to add to the pondering of "time": Either there was no concept of time in the Garden of Eden, or for a while, time there was kept based on another star system...

That is freaking adorable! Where do I get me one of those?

NOTE: In all likelihood, the below should be utterly ignored in favor of seeking the Spirit to testify to you of truth. I testify, in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, that Joseph Smith was and still is a prophet, that the Book of Mormon is the word of God, that God lives, that Jesus Christ is His Son, and that The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is Christ's restored Church, and the only one with Christ's power and authority to administer the ordinances and covenants of salvation. But here's some human logic if the Spirit's not enough for you... Please note that this suggests God has no beginning. Which is the same as there being no beginning. If no beginning is a "problem" in one belief system, why isn't it a problem in the other? You say one good thing about this is that it explains where we came from. Actually, it doesn't explain it so much as claim it and then dismiss it. Our beliefs do a far better job of explaining where man comes from - and it is the only origin that makes sense. Magical "creating out of nothing" flies in the face of reason and experience. If something exists, it (or what it is composed of) has always existed - everything we know and experience attests to this. That we find eternity past incomprehensible doesn't change the fact that nothing else makes more sense. And ponder this: Do you have a hard time believing in eternity future? Is it hard to believe that you will continue to exist forever and ever, with no end, even if all you do is die and turn to dust and the matter and energy that were you continue? If you don't find eternity future hard to believe in, why do you find eternity past hard to believe in? I'll tell you why: because mortality is full of beginnings, because we don't want to believe that our current state is the best we could manage over an infinite timespan, and because we have no memory of it nor ability to imagine it. To which I say, that doesn't alter the fact that it's the most rational option available to us. New topic: If the above belief system is correct, then how do you explain all the scriptures that say humans were created in the image of God, male and female? But the above (and those who teach it) say that God is not like us and especially that God does not have a wife - the female part of humans being in the image of God. Oh sure, they'll say Christ came and temporarily took on human form, but that's not God's form, it's human form. If that's not God's normal form, then why is it ours, if we were created in His image? That whole "unknowable God" idea doesn't fit with scripture. Why did Jesus call God our Father (John 20:17)? If God isn't the Father of our spirits, why isn't calling Him God good enough? If God is just our "figurative" Father, why call Him that at all? What is so defective about the title of "God" that Christ felt the need to add "Father" to it? Why did Jesus quote (John 10:34) the Psalm (82:6) which refers to humans as gods? If that Psalm is wrong and we are not children of God, capable of one day becoming like Him, why would Christ quote it in defense of His own claim to be the Son of God? And frankly, if God is this unknowable transcendent being, why come at all? Or why as "Son", why not as "God"? If he can work magic like creating something from nothing and still not be responsible for evil, why all the nonsense of mortality? What purpose do mortality and resurrection serve if not to advance in the way God Himself advanced? Mortality makes no sense in this way of thinking. Those who believe this system will just say God wanted it this way, so it is. How does that explain anything? At least we have an explanation that explains eternity past, mortality present, and eternity future, worlds without end! In short, this philosophy / interpretation explains nothing. It waves magic wands and says, "this is the truth, just swallow it and be happy". Please explain what you mean by "infinite regress", why you believe our view requires it, and why that's a problem. What about our beliefs makes time "self existent" and what about it makes time "causal"? Time is nothing more or less than a mechanism for measuring something. Note this scripture in the New Testament (just read the bold parts, before or after reading the whole): Apparently, we believe that there will come a point where there will be no time. Or how about this: My dad's theory was that all is present before God (D&C 38:2, Moses 1:6) (whether you mean that as time or awareness or sight) because 1. God is omniscient (all-knowing), and 2. It takes God no time to comprehend / understand - if I try to tell you something, time will be required for me to explain it and you to understand it. God already understands it before I start, ergo, there is no time. (Don't know that Dad was right, but it sure makes a lot of sense.) And then there's this: That makes it sound like God does measure time - perhaps only when dealing with planets... IMO, "time" is not terribly important beyond it being a gift given to man so that man would not waste it (as much). Please explain further what you mean by: What does that mean (in other terms), why do our beliefs require it, and why is it a problem? The Holy Ghost is the best weed whacker out there. Receive the Holy Ghost!

You're asking us to explain things God himself chooses not explain: I was going to quote part of this, but now I'm thinking you should just read from Chapter 17 of Teachings of Presidents of the Church: Joseph Smith, the section titled "We are eternal beings; we can advance toward exaltation as we obey the laws of God." The truth is not to be found in "good arguments" one way or the other. Those all come from fallen mankind who, really, aren't all that smart as a whole. It is the Spirit, the Holy Ghost, who teaches and testifies of truth. God has intentionally kept many things from us because one thing is most important: the gospel of Jesus Christ. Whether there are many worlds or one world, many universes or none, a beginning (which is far more absurd than the incomprehensible idea of no beginning) or only eternity, those facts will not lead you back to God. (I am not suggesting one be satisfied only with the knowledge one currently has, nor only with what's currently contained in scripture, but I am suggesting that without the Spirit, there is no knowledge, and the philosophies and "arguments" of man are foolishness to God.) In other words, seek the Spirit. If you aren't sure how to do that: 1. Read the Book of Mormon every day. 2. Start with the most recent General Conference talk by President Nelson, study it, implement it in your life, then move back to the previous one. Lather, rinse, repeat.

Yeah, media denial or something - just in the past 2 years or so prices have doubled.

So glad. Yep, answers are correct.

Nice to meet you, @Little Nipper! Most of us here are Latter-day Saints, but we do have a few folk from other denominations (and at least one atheist). Meanwhile, you forgot the most important information: what is your favorite fountain pen, ink, and FP-friendly paper? (After all, how are you going to finish logic puzzles without a fountain pen?) Other folks might want to know your favorite comic book, or perhaps what caliber handgun you like best. @askandanswer may want to know if you have any experience boxing against kangaroos.....

For those who don't have enough ways to waste time... Printable Logic Puzzles (These are good until you've done a billion of them - they reuse the same concepts, categories, items in each category. They also don't give you any intro text, so the combination of categories can seem rather bizarre.) Aha! Puzzles (There's a fixed number of them and you have to either download them one by one or pay to download a single PDF of the whole set or a subset. Still good puzzles. Note that each puzzle comes with a "bonus puzzle" but there are only 3-4 total bonus puzzles, so they repeat a lot - check the bonus puzzle title before printing! The bonus puzzles are fun. You may want to print a grid for them, though - they don't include grids, and I needed a grid for one or two of them. I have grid templates should anyone need one - just tell me which puzzle you're doing.) Brainzilla Printable Logic Grid Puzzles (Nearly identical in every way to Aha! Puzzles, except they have different puzzles. The two entities / sites are clearly tightly linked. Everything I said about Aha! is true for Brainzilla, right down to the same bonus puzzles.)

Finally, here is the long-awaited Zarahemla 4th Ward Ward Conference logic puzzle: Intro: The Zarahemla 4th Ward had their first Ward Conference last Sabbath. Alma assigned seven different speakers, each with a different topic. Each man decided to start his talk in a unique way. The conference went better than anyone had a right to expect, but the Ward Clerk (Lachoneantum) dropped his tablets and his notes are all jumbled. Help him figure out the order in which the seven speakers spoke, the speaker’s name, the topic each spoke on, and the starter he used. PDF attached. (This is also not an easy one, but not too hard, as long as you don't skip a clue... ) Zarahemla4thWardConference.pdf

Welcome to ThirdHour, @Little Nipper! You might want to take a moment to introduce yourself (there's a subforum for that ).