NeuroTypical

while what you say is a good firm polite reply it ultimately means nothing when you are unarmed and against power hungry officersSetting aside the issue with you advocating shooting cops for a minute, you also happen to be factually incorrect. Armed or unarmed, power hungry or not, law enforcement personel are trained in what they can and can't do in regards to search and seizure. They've got a pretty good idea of what will make it to court, what won't, and what will land them in hot water or lose their department a lawsuit.Your general statement seems to convey the mindset of "whoever has the gun makes the rules and it's pointless to pretend otherwise". That mindset is not true in a land ruled by a constitution based on separation of powers. Gripe about the sorry state of our nation if you wish, but griping about mostly honest good folk doing a dangerous job so we can sit there and enjoy civilization? Come on. Here's a question for you kayne - do you actually personally know any law enforcement folks? Related to any? Friends and neighbors with any?

Hey - I think I used to live in that ward! Actually, my biggest load (outside of a presidency) was something like eight families. It was an effort to see who these people were, if they still lived there, and if they wanted to be visited/taught. The biggest load I've seen someone in a presidency consistently handle, was twenty-something. That list was also known as "the letter list". When I was Exec Secretary, the bishopric went out to contact all the "Do not contact" people. These are folks ticked off enough to yell at you for knocking on their door, but not ticked off enough to mail a letter somewhere, so they stay on the rolls.

Utah Driver's Handbook, page preceeding table of contents: page 51: Point Distribution: Following too Closely (Tailgating) .......................60 Page 56:

Ok. I would suggest that you do not bring any into the world until you've completely resolved this issue. If you stay and try to make it work, bringing kids into the mix is NOT a way of fixing things - it's a way of burdening innocent lives with your and your husband's problems. If you separate, and probably eventually divorce, I would not have kids with any future spouse you pick until you've experienced 3-5 years of stable marriage with any future him. 2nd marriages fail more often than 1st marriages.

I'm not hugely invested in defending them, but the data comes from the Bureau of Labor Statistics' Consumer Price Index. What goods and services does the CPI cover? Yeah, but if you believe the government is intentionally lying, I can see why you'd discount the chart.

I've been grateful for this leadership training meeting talk for many years: General Patterns and Specific Lives - Elder Jeffrey R. Holland "The Parable of the Homemade Shirt" answered a lot of questions for me.

Got kids? My response to your situation sort of hinges on the answer.

Yes. And if you have to show up in fancier cars than mine with pictures of your more expensive vacations, at least also bring stories about how much debt you're in.

I like you phi. You remind me a little of me, back when I used to go to the countercult reachout forums and argue with people who had a beef with mormons. I did my absolute best to be polite, civil, open, honest, and deliver blows softly. I hope you stick around. Just a reminder about the forum rules. If you can stay on the positive side of them (especially #1), I think we'll all get along just fine. I do have a question - and forgive me if you've already stated this elsewhere. Are you a Calvinist? If so, please go to the Christian Beliefs board and start a thread on Calvinism. I'd relish the chance to learn more about it. I have to admit, until you, every single Calvinist I've run into has been on the rude and uncivil side. I've been hoping to find a nice one.

Oh, absolutely. Christ actually taught this on at least two different continents to two different civilizations: How do you reconcile our counsel to prepare against Christ's sermon to His disciples? (I actually don't know the answer here - it's been something I've thought about off and on over the years.)

Thanks for reminding me why I so dearly love Shrek 2 and 3. They were required viewing in our house for a long time.

Whenever I get a chance to talk about my religion with someone, I mention that we're the weirdos who go to church 10 hours in a weekend, twice a year. Every General Conference weekend I also predict rain, because "when the Mormons meet, the heavens weep".

Oh, I dunno. Any discussion on the subject involves seeing these potential other forms of life through our own lives. For example, here's a partial list of unsubstantiated, unsupportable assumptions I see when we discuss such things: * Other forms of life have senses. * They are curious. * They go about trying to discover things. * They create sources of energy. * They create anything at all. * They are appropriately thought about using a term like "they". As far as I can tell, the billion-year-old giant fungus living just below Omicron four's planetary crust isn't able to detect our 3 stooges radio waves, and it also isn't particularly interested in caring one way or the other.

I grew up in one of those homes. They stuck it out and parted at death. I'm grateful they didn't tilt the odds against me by splitting up. Kids in divorced situations are at higher risk of trouble with the law, teen pregnancy, prison time, living under the poverty level, and getting divorced themselves. Having grown up through their unhappy lives, I find my dad's honoring his marriage vows as having a big impact in my ability to follow mine.Another little tidbit - divorcing doesn't end a relationship. Divorcing just changes a relationship. If you both are reasonably healthy and sane, and have a mutual interest in raising the kids, then you'll both still be interacting with each other for a long, long time. Except things will be more complicated, more expensive, and your kids will have more grief and anxiety and difficulties to deal with. Anyone abuse anyone? Anyone an alcoholic or an adulterer? Those are sometimes reasons to ditch someone and protect the kids. A grown man stomping his foot and saying "I don't wanna", well, you are role modeling for them no matter what you decide. Choose carefully.

My only response, is that we Mormons should prepare for a bajillion gazillion more incidents just like this, happening everywhere, all the time. You might as well be civil and take the high road and not be offended, because otherwise you'll have to clone yourself a hundredfold just to have enough bandwidth to be properly outraged at every instance.

So, I brought up this notion to my wife, who is not only the wiser of us, but also has been on a first name basis with real evil at various points in her life. She said she didn't mind me making light of the issue, but she doesn't take the matter lightly. She thinks of the issue of an infinitely large number of sons of perdition in the following way: You know Yellowstone National Park? They have bubbling cauldrons of black mud there, hot and dangerous enough to flay the skin off of anyone who gets too close. Some say the cauldrons are not too deep - only a few hundred feet. Others say it's basically bottomless, as far as humans are concerned anyway. Her take on it, is she doesn't care one way or the other - just for the love of pete don't go poking around in it, or you'll get burned.

Had my temple recommend interview recently. Told the Bishop about how I go to the gym 4-5 times per week, and don't wear my garments while at the gym. He reaffirmed my understanding that was fine - that my attitude, and respect I have for what they are symbols of, are what's important.

There's your answer. Now you do what's best for your 4 kids.

Yep, as I said earlier, the opinion-holders never budge an inch in such discussions. But check the thread stats - 210 views from folks like me. This thread holds (what I assume is) the best of both sides of the debate - and folks are forming opinions. Moe - life is easier when you think of it not as arguing with lds2, but as making an argument for the hundreds of people who come here and read what you have to say.

Heh. I've never thought about it like that before. It may just be that I lack the brain power to comprehend math once we start talking about infinity, or it may be that our mortal corporeal brains aren't able to comprehend - but this seems like one of the mysteries that just don't get answered in the mortal realm.Although one could probably make some good fiction out of speculating. Let's say the infinite number of sons of perdition break out and start waging war on the various kingdoms of heaven. Our infinity is much bigger - or is it? Will our infinite resources be enough to win the war? Outer darkness plays dirty, but Mother Theresea has been studying karate since she got here. Someone write the book or make the movie - I'd love to read it or see it.

This thread reminds me of when I used to argue with anti-mormon countercultists. Nobody ever budged a single inch in their beliefs, but the folks who lurked and watched the battle were able to decide for themselves which side had the better hand. I know which side I stand on here.

I'm a big fan of interview horror stories, on both sides of the desk. I've been both the interviewer, and the person interviewed plenty of times. Surely, there are plenty of goofy stories about bad interviewers (like your guy who didn't know Java had only been out 3 years). But in my interviewing experience, starting in the early '90's, I must say that I've never conducted an interview intended to do anything but see if someone is good for the job. Seeing if I can trip you up, isn't for my own enjoyment. I've asked the hard questions with no good answer, not because I like to see you squirm, but because I was in a similar situation just the other day at work, and I want to know if you can deal with such things in good ways. It's not about a power trip or humiliation games, it's about having to leave my job for 4 hours, to go talk to 4 strangers, and see if I think any of them could contribute. Some of my funny stories: * At 'learn to interview' training in 2002, one guy was asked to give an example of a bad situation he encountered at work and how he overcame it. He gave a rambling and bitter answer detailing how he had been accused of harassment at his last job, and how many meetings he had to attend because of it, and how hard the HR department was to work with, etc, etc. At no point in his answer, did he ever actualy indicate that he was innocent, and it was pretty apparent that he hadn't overcome anything. We helped him practice a better answer. * I worked in a candy store, and we'd hire high school kids. I recommended we fire one kid, after he'd keep picking stuff out of his shoes with the same knife he'd cut chocolate with, and after he'd refuse to do his job. His reaction - somehow, by firing him, we had broken foundational laws of "what it meant to be human".

Beware anyone who tells you "trust me with your money because I'm mormon". Utah once had the distinction of being the fraud/scam capital of the U.S. because so many people would fall for it. If anyone tells you about how your money is safe with them because they are High Priest group leader, or their dad is a GA, or they have three sons who all went on missions - run far, run fast.

Yeah. Iggy, Ripple, and HEP have the correct definition. But folks get hungry enough, or poor and desparate enough, and they'll apply the label to any non-hoarder prepared person. And again, a study of history provides lots of examples of them doing it through legal and governmental channels.

Just in case anyone was wondering what our church leaders are currently saying about such things: Self-Reliance and Family Well-Being - Finances What I take away from this counsel, is that if one has debt, the discussion about gold vs food vs silk vs whatever is sort of missing the point. Sort of like thinking about whether a new car with crumple zones and side airbags is better than an old 1977 Oldsmobile steel tank, and discussing it while you're standing in the middle of a busy freeway.