NeuroTypical

Rand rocks. She helped me evolve from a hand-wringing emotionally-driven liberal, to the staunch conservative I am today. I can see why an athiest would be her disciple on matters of faith and God. But not me. LM

Oh, I'm not a hornet. Or if I am, at least I recognize that stinging people who want to help the poor isn't the best use of my stinger. But I can't be sure embracing socialism is what Churchmouse had in mind. I've heard a similar situation (rich folk spend money the wrong way) used to justify all sorts of things. From isolationism, to claiming the rapture is near, to raising taxes, to eliminating the IRS, to outlawing SUV's. So again, Hey Churchmouse! You've made two statements - America builds expensive embassies, and 1 out of 7 people in Kentucky go to bed hungry every night. Before I respond, I need a critical bit of information. What's your point? LM

I'm still waiting to hear what Churchmouse's point is...

From what I can tell, JohnOF123 is just extending an invitation for anyone who wishes to walk into a boxing ring and take and throw some punches. There's nothing wrong with that (as long as he doesn't break any of the site rules.) You know it's a boxing ring when you click the link. If you're not a boxer, don't enter the ring. I think many of us have experience with folks extending invitations to the happy fuzzy bunny park of love and polite conversations, only to discover that the place is really a boxing ring when we get there. JohnOF123 is being honest - he doesn't deserve to be lumped in with the lying trap-layers. LM

Maybe. What sort of show?

So, those were genuine questions. I really do want to know what your point is. No need to get insulting, is there?

What conclusion do you wish us to draw? America is bad? Capitalism is wrong? We need a new president (or consitution)? The end is near? (I'd rather not guess before I respond)

I talked about this case with my wife, who has a much greater understanding about how these things work than I do. A lot depends on the laws of your state, but most likely they will be unable to hold these people against their will for very long, unless they do something more serious than breaking/entering and fighting with the cops. What is likely to happen, is they'll be released with a court date and a state case worker/social worker of some kind. There may be some medication and counseling and whatnot, but again, unless someone chooses to take their meds and keep their appointments, they'll likely stay crazy. It would be in your best interests to find out who this case/social worker is, and to give them periodic updates on how things are going. For example, if you see them collecting dogs again, or it looks like they haven't left their house in a week, their case worker would appreciate hearing about that. Similarly, if you see they are improving and being better people, it would probably go a long way to heal the battle scars if their worker let them know that they've impressed a neighbor. Keep the news coming! LM

Sure, but you will need to address my arguments against the concept of God.I'll 'need to' address your arguments why? Let me hazzard a guess at an answer - you're not interested in understanding, you're interested in winning the debate, because you're right and we're wrong. If I'm in the ballpark, I think I'll pass. I'm big on debate, but I'm less big on debating with someone who sees no value in just plain understanding where the other is coming from, and will not budge a dang inch unless some predetermined methodology has it's hoops jumped through in the right order. Now don't get me wrong, I'm a big fan of structured debate. It's just that I understand that conversion stories based on logic won't help you. There are some folks here much more egg-heady than I am - I hope you get your good structured debate. LM

What a wonderful process for allowing beliefs into your brain! I wholeheartedly vote yes (and no, I'm not being smarmy or sarcastic).I submit that I arrived at a belief in God through exactly this process. Wanna hear about it? LM (welcome, by the way)

Just out of curiosity, do you believe the Bible to be the word of God? Wondering how you explain Ezra 2:59-62 (denied the priesthood apparently because they could not prove they were of the proper ancestry). Or Daniel 11:35 "And some of them of understanding shall fall, to try them, and to purge, and to make them white, even to the time of the end: because it is yet for a time appointed." Or Lamentations 4:6-8 "Her Nazarites were purer than snow, they were whiter than milk, they were more ruddy in body than rubies, their polishing was of sapphire: Their visage is blacker than a coal; they are not known in the streets: their skin cleaveth to their bones; it is withered, it is become like a stick."Is this some of the 'peace-loving God playing by the racial currents of his environment' who thinks 'racism was one of the most abhorrent things'?? LM

Many Mormons were all up in arms about that movie "The Golden Compass" a few years back, because the author Phillip Pullman is an athiest and his books are about discovering that god is actually a bad guy and killing him. At the time of the movie release, Deseret Book was selling a different work of fiction by Pullman. I walked into the store with my own two feet, and saw the book with my own two eyes. And yes, I was in Deseret Book. Again, I have no problem with people who want to surround themselves with only fine uplifting good stuff. I'm just cautioning against relying on other people (especially relying on a for-profit company) to determine what that is for you. LM

So, I'm still wondering: If you wanna meet guys, exactly how are they supposed to get to know you and show their interest? If this looks creepy (and I'm not saying it doesn't), what does something not-creepy look like to you?

Heh. Word to the wise - getting arrested and held for a psyche eval can be a very long way away from 'getting the help they need'.Havejoy, it wouldn't surprise me in the least if the soap opera saga of these folks isn't over yet. My advice would be to let everyone and their dog know what happened and what you saw in their house. Get witnesses if possible. Prepare for round 3 (or 5, or whatever you're up to now). LM

I guess I ought to actually participate in the thread topic lol. I've been an active member for 30+ years, and have never heard this. Or more directly, I know people who will only allow 'church-approved' (whatever that means) stuff into their lives. I figure good for them - surrounding yourself with wholesome and uplifting stuff is a wonderful thing. But no, I'm aware of no counsel from scripture or church leader that states our church is the ONLY place to find wholesome and uplifting stuff. In fact, I'm aware of quite a bit of council from church leaders indicating the exact opposite - that good things are found all over the place, and we should grab hold of them wherever we find them.LM

Cool - I found common ground with JohnOF123! We both find certain elements of our faith's musical preferences a little distasteful! I personally find some of our music-based worship in my faith wooden and dry. So many of our hymns are beautiful and passionate and energetic - yet we sometimes sing them like we're reading instructions on how to file our taxes. Do any of our non-LDS friends here know about the group who sang "Our God is a God of second chances" In the Veggie Tales movie Jonah? I'd love to hear more of their stuff. LM

Nope. I'm saying that by freeing our vast brainy talent of inventing minds from the strangling tendrils of govt bureaucracy and it's clinging barbs of policies and hoops, you end up with a lot more useful science done. It is true that demanding work be supported by marketable inventions carries it's own set of hoops, but since we're talking about methods of funneling my money to scientists and inventors, I'm favoring the method that lets me not pay for stuff I don't give a flyin' whoop about. 90% is my rule-of-thumb guess - no source, sorry. Looking at revenue won't help us - my claim is about who is actually doing the research on new drugs. After a new drug shows up, it's a common practice to take it and make a minor change to sell it as a "generic". The new drug had to show up first, before folks could make their billions off the generic form.LM

Hi Nomad! From one introvert to another - you need to set up things properly to succeed. Mormons are notoriously friendly, outgoing people. It can be quite a stress dealing with them for someone like me, who would be very content to only encounter people once a week or less. Here's what I suggest - if you're like me, it would work. Walk into the church, and the first person who starts walking towards you, stick out your hand, introduce yourself, and ask if they can direct you to the bishop or a counselor. Repeat this as many times as it takes until you actually find yourself in front of the bishop or one of his counselors. Then give a very brief, two sentence description of exactly why you're there. "Hi there - I'm new to your church, I just want to attend sacrament meeting and then go away and think about it. I'm sort of an introvert, and I know you guys can be extra friendly, but really, I'd just like to start out slow." I think they'll understand. And also, all the hoardes of handshakers and backpatters and friendly gospel sharers will get the word about the new guy, and back off a little. Tell us how it goes! LM

I'll comment on just one: False statement, invalid question. There is archaeological evidence of BoM claims, just not much, and certainly not conclusive. You need to understand that where archaology is involved, "absence of evidence" is not the same thing as "evidence of absence". The human race limped along for a double-fistful of centuries, arguing about the validity of the Bible because of all the places it talked about that nobody were sure existed. As for DNA, this statement is made from a position of ignorance. What DNA can tell us about population migrations and roots, is very different than a lot of laypeople just assume. Also, we've got no good basis to even guess at what a BoM person's DNA would look like in the first place. You have to know what you're looking for, before you conclude that you aren't finding it. Thanks, LM

Here's my general take on giving advice to other people about their marriages. This is LM just speaking as LM here - don't confuse me for a Bishop or churchy person. * If you have kids, you should move heaven and earth to fix your marriage. You should push yourself far more than you ever thought possible to be the best person you could be. You should endure more than you feel is fair, to hold the marriage together. If you're unhappy, remake yourself into someone who is happy. * If you don't have kids, I don't really care one way or the other. I hope whatever you decide works for you. I believe the world would be a better place if it were full of people who had kids after a troubled first marriage ended in divorce and they tried again from a position of greater learning and maturity. LM

So, yeah. These people are dangerous, and should be treated as such. I would consider my family's health and well-being in danger if these people were within 5 miles of us. The commandment is to love thy neighbor. Trying to reason with them isn't loving them. Doing whatever is necessary to prevent them from harming you is loving them. Imagine the afterlife: "I sure did a lot of dumb stuff and hurt a lot of people on earth - thanks for making it so I couldn't hurt you!" LM

My wife and I do. Girls 9 and 6. I might stop in a few years.

There is nothing so cool, so awe-inspiring, so mind-expanding, that it can't be used as a "yo mamma so fat" joke in the right hands...

Maybe I'm missing something. You're talking with a guy on a dating website, he gives you a valentine's present, and you're wondering if that's creepy? Maybe you want to talk with guys on dating websites as a way of keeping them away from you? What am I missing here? LM

I'm glad to hear good stories of good treatment from countries with socialized medicine. A thing to consider before you try too hard to socialize the US's system: Probably 70% of the methods of treatment, and probably 95% of the medication used worldwide, was developed in the US. We invent the drug or treatment or device, enjoy our limited patent profits, then the world gets to copy it for cheap. I'm not really complaining about this setup, I'm just saying, be very careful of what you do to the US healthcare system, or in 50 years you still might be stuck with 2010 - style healthcare. LM