NeuroTypical

Yes. I wouldn't be alone with him, or let him be alone with my stuff, at all, for any reason whatsoever.If some sisters aren't available, ask the High Priests to send a couple of them over for a nice polite conversation that lasts as long as dood is around. I would not treat this lightly. LM

Well, I don't think I qualify, but my wife knows the feeling. She homeschools our two kids too.A while ago there was a commercial featuring a SAHM who at the end of the day would just stare at a picture on the wall and babble baby talk. Her hubby took her to the symphony. Welcome!

Yeah, but they count as one voice. I'm waiting for that 2nd and 3rd witness, so the truth may be established from their words.LM

Yes. However, if anyone tells you that there were a bunch of missionaries who got a prompting to not go to their meeting at the World Trade Center on 9/11, don't believe them.

I didn't go on a mission, and I think JAG's take on things here are very important to consider. I went from surly teenager to inactive, and stayed inactive for 6 years. My priesthood meant nothing to me during that time, since I had basically told bishops what they wanted to hear when they sat me down to move me up the priesthood chain. I didn't even know what the Oath and Covenant of the Priesthood was, until I had come back and been active a few years.I had a handy excuse which I offered to anyone who pushed me about a mission - my mom was dying, and I had to be there. It was an excuse I didn't believe myself - I didn't go on a mission because I didn't believe any of the teachings of the scriptures or the church. If I had, I would have gone. I have no excuse to offer - I went inactive because I didn't believe. Whenever someone in Sunday School asks for converts to raise their hands, I raise mine. Even though I was born into the church, I don't consider myself having becoming converted and truly joining until I was 26. Now, a decade or two later, I wish I had gone. I urge young guys who are considering missions to go. JAG says it a bit harshly, but I think he's right - guys who don't go on a mission because they figure they're the exception to the rule, have a critical gap in their understanding of the gospel. Marry them at your risk, because that misunderstanding will eventually become something else. Either a rejection or an acceptance. If you got a coin, flip it. LM

Three words - Go For It. If you both feel the same way when you're 23, grab him and hold on forever. Most people who go on a mission have unique and powerful spiritual experiences that help them throughout their lives. It is a rare thing to have someone go into the military and have something similar happen. He was most likely surrounded by alcohol and swearing and lots and lots of sex - and you say he came out more spiritual than he went in? It's possible to complete a mission, come home, and get sealed in the temple without ever seriously considering if you even believe in God or not. The future is always not set in stone, but you've got a guy who has already passed tests of faith that many people fail at. You make him sound like an obvious catch. As long as your not overlooking any warning signs, go for it. True story: My mother was the rebel of her family, and married a drinking smoking gambling swearing man, probably just to spite her parents. It was a major scandal for this established 3rd generation Utah Mormon family, who heeded the first call to zion and immigrated from France, to have such a thing happen. The parents didn't like him, the siblings didn't like him, but everyone tried to get along and things were mostly ok.Fast forward a quarter century. Their other kids, who all married 'more righteous' men, have been through 3 divorces, an affair or two, and most of them have left the church. That drinking swearing gambler stood by their daughter's side as her health deteriorated with multiple sclerosis, and her mind went with it. In the final years, as taking care of her was more or less a full time job, her parents came to him and offered use of their Caddilac so he could drive himself to Wendover (the closest casino to Salt Lake) for some needed relaxation. No, I'm not suggesting you go marry someone who drinks and gambles. I'm suggesting that if yur parents are good people, they'll eventually come around, if he's a good guy. LM

It seems like such a FaithPromotingRumor, and yet there it is, complete with names, dates, places, and from recent memory. I guess the next thing we need is independent confirmation. Anyone with a kid in that mission who can back up the story? LM

Thank you much, Jason, for the appropriate and needed correction. I fell into the same dumb trap I see critics of my church falling into - hearing something that sounds bad, and believing it.Please accept my apologies, and I promise I've corrected my position. Now I just gotta find all the people I told that story to... LM

Meh. This is an anonymous message board. For all we know, BrotherBear, FriendofBrotherBear, and Br0therbear are all the same pimply 11 yr old kid with a picture of his older sister. Some folks get kicks out of the strangest stuff. LM (not who you think I am)

I think Ben nailed it. "fair value" is an oft-discussed and argued about term. "Fair value" is what someone wants to sell for, and what someone wants to buy for - as long as there is no undue/illegal pressure on either party.LM

Hey Inquisitive - just fyi, I have actually made this exact point as a Gospel Essentials teacher. In the lesson about the restoration, where we talk about the apostacy, I told my class "After the apostles were martyred, the organization of Christ's church basically went away. Eventually, some government leader grabbed the reigns, when Emperor Constantine of the Roman Empire declared himself the head of Christ's church. Catholics point to him as their first Pope. But before you go talking smack against Catholics, I want you all to think about something. Yes, the organization Christ put into place was gone. Yes, the heavens were sealed, and there was little in the way of direct revelation from God to Man. But there were still good people trying to do good things. There were still righteous, God-fearing individuals doing the best they could to let people know the Good News of Christ, and keep an organization together. Before we harp on Catholics, we need to keep in mind who assembled the Bible, and preserved it across the millenia. We can sit back and talk about errors and omissions and contradictions in the bible until we're blue in the face - but at the end of the day, the only reason we have the Bible today at all, is because a bunch of Catholics saw the reality and divinity of Christ in it's pages, and sought to preserve it."Human beings in general, fall into a trap of playing the "us vs. them" game. This isn't specific to Mormons or Catholics or even religion. Life looks brighter when we take some wise words from a guy who told us to "Love thy neighbor as thyself." Good to meet you neighbor. LM (Oh - by the way, we believe in the apostacy because the Bible tells us about it.)

So, my little girls and I are currently enjoying a very sweet and tender phase of our daddy/daughter relationship. We both think the other is wonderful. They tell me this phase will pass, and I'll soon be the dumb old guy who never gives them enough money. Anyway, I try hard to raise my daughters with some tools they can put to good use in their adult lives. I try hard now, because now they're listening to me. I think a lot about how they'll picking their husbands. Such topics are very much on my mind, because of course I want my daughters to pick good men and have happy lives. I try to be very careful about the advice I give (or will give once the time comes), and try to stick to general principles. Here's a handful - what do you think? * Aim high. (You can find righteous guys, many of them will be RM's) * Earn high. (Be the kind of person that righteous guys will want to marry. You've already got looks, kid - make sure what's inside looks as good.) * Guard your heart. (Once unleashed, a woman's heart will have her overlooking all sorts of horrible things. Make sure it gets unleashed on the right guy.) * 'Fixer-uppers' should be encouraged from a distance, not dated. (A 'fixer-upper' is someone who is a good guy in every way except for [serious issue/character defect/lifestyle choice/etc].) * "Love": 1. An emotional reaction identifying how you feel: "I love him!" This emotional reaction is never present 100% of the time in any relationship. * "Love": 2. An action verb identifying how you act. In a marriage, acts of love demonstrate commitment, and make the marriage stronger. (Differs from the first definition, in that you can "Love" someone without feeling "Love" for him. A good marriage is where both of you understand this, and do it for each other.) My daughters are still a few years away from dating, but I'm no expert in this field, so I'm sure I can learn from many of your responses. LMLM

I have a phrase for you - righteous indignation. You sister did a very stupid thing, and now is doing a stupid thing again. Your sister is being incredibly selfish, and your family seems to not be able to do anything about it except toss out a few words of "atta girl", refuse to judge, and hide under the bed and hope it goes away.Since you grew up in such a family, it looks like you might have had "judgement is bad" hardwired into your brain from an early age. Don't believe it. Unrighteous judgement is bad, righteous judgement is a commandment. You should consider learning the difference between the two. What your sister is doing, is wrong. Kids born out of wedlock have increased risks of teen pregnancy, catching an STD, going behind bars. They tend earn less as adults than kids born into an intact family. The world is full of success stories about how kids beat the odds and do well - but your sister is choosing to inflict those odds on her kid - just for some momentary fleeting sexual good feeling. It's hard to find something Christlike and helpful to do with those feelings. There are many ways to do unrighteous harmful things with those feelings, and only a couple of good ways. LM

Common belief is goodly as in moral, upstanding, wholesome.

I'd be willing to bet that actually, he has heard a hodge-podge of goofy dumb false stuff about our religion. You'd be surprised what people think we believe and do. One lady's church group showed everyone Napoleon Dynamite as a way to learn about Mormons, for pete's sake. So ask him why. In the 10+ years I've been interacting with critics of my faith, there is one response I've used over and over again. Probably around half of the criticisms I've heard, get answered this way: "I've been an active member of this church for 32 years. That means I've been to church over 1500 times in 6 different towns in 2 different states. I have never, in any meeting, in any sacrament meeting, at any fireside, in any home teaching message, at any general conference, in any sunday school lesson, in any hallway conversation - in none of these places have I EVER heard anyone even MENTION what you just said. It seems odd - you say Mormons believe this and we teach it - you think I would have heard about it somewhere along the line." So, when they come up with how we worship Joseph Smith, or how we have horns, or how we are taught to shun people who leave the church, or how we get naked and do naughty things in the temple, this is really the only response to give. [And yes, I've been told every single one of these.] Now, if he says some stuff that you actually do believe, but he puts it in a way that makes it seem weird, there's room for you to grow and learn. But I'm thinking he's just been listening to people, who have listened to people, who gave a really stupid opinion about what mormons believe. LM

It might depend on why she's touchy about it.

Well, he doesn't represent anyone but himself. A better question is "what's the problem with telling us what you believe about our faith", and the answer would be "I can't - it's against the site rules."But leave the guy alone. He's here playing by our rules. I did the same thing once upon a time, and posted often at a UK-based countercult ministry. Managed to make them think a little, too. I'm sure JohnOF123 is hoping the same thing. I managed to not get kicked off the rabid anti-mormon board, got fingers crossed that he won't get kicked off here. LM

Rand rocks. She helped me evolve from a hand-wringing emotionally-driven liberal, to the staunch conservative I am today. I can see why an athiest would be her disciple on matters of faith and God. But not me. LM

Oh, I'm not a hornet. Or if I am, at least I recognize that stinging people who want to help the poor isn't the best use of my stinger. But I can't be sure embracing socialism is what Churchmouse had in mind. I've heard a similar situation (rich folk spend money the wrong way) used to justify all sorts of things. From isolationism, to claiming the rapture is near, to raising taxes, to eliminating the IRS, to outlawing SUV's. So again, Hey Churchmouse! You've made two statements - America builds expensive embassies, and 1 out of 7 people in Kentucky go to bed hungry every night. Before I respond, I need a critical bit of information. What's your point? LM

I'm still waiting to hear what Churchmouse's point is...

From what I can tell, JohnOF123 is just extending an invitation for anyone who wishes to walk into a boxing ring and take and throw some punches. There's nothing wrong with that (as long as he doesn't break any of the site rules.) You know it's a boxing ring when you click the link. If you're not a boxer, don't enter the ring. I think many of us have experience with folks extending invitations to the happy fuzzy bunny park of love and polite conversations, only to discover that the place is really a boxing ring when we get there. JohnOF123 is being honest - he doesn't deserve to be lumped in with the lying trap-layers. LM

Maybe. What sort of show?

So, those were genuine questions. I really do want to know what your point is. No need to get insulting, is there?

What conclusion do you wish us to draw? America is bad? Capitalism is wrong? We need a new president (or consitution)? The end is near? (I'd rather not guess before I respond)

I talked about this case with my wife, who has a much greater understanding about how these things work than I do. A lot depends on the laws of your state, but most likely they will be unable to hold these people against their will for very long, unless they do something more serious than breaking/entering and fighting with the cops. What is likely to happen, is they'll be released with a court date and a state case worker/social worker of some kind. There may be some medication and counseling and whatnot, but again, unless someone chooses to take their meds and keep their appointments, they'll likely stay crazy. It would be in your best interests to find out who this case/social worker is, and to give them periodic updates on how things are going. For example, if you see them collecting dogs again, or it looks like they haven't left their house in a week, their case worker would appreciate hearing about that. Similarly, if you see they are improving and being better people, it would probably go a long way to heal the battle scars if their worker let them know that they've impressed a neighbor. Keep the news coming! LM