RachelleDrew

Certainly. :) I was actually referencing checkerboys response. Not that I disagree with him, I just think that he's ignoring that this family is dealing with a typical, hormonal, teenage girl. I have experience with this matter because i've been in a similar situation before. My brother was awfully quick to "tattle" on my sexual experiences to my father before I even had the chance to confess. I certainly wanted to be honest with my father, but searching for the right words and the right moment takes time. My relationship with both my father and my brother would be tremendously better if I could have been given a chance to own up myself which I certainly would have had my bother not ran to my father TWO DAYS after it happened. I'm still quite bitter in case you cannot tell. And my parent's knowing certainly didn't stop me. Once he knew, he accused me of not being honest with him (even though I had every intention of doing so.) of course I was to never see my boyfriend again and I was grounded for months. Windows are a teenager's best friend after bedtime by the way. Anywho, the moral of the story is of course that the manner in which things are approached make all the difference in the outcome of the situation. One can clue the parents in on the girl's dangerous behavior without being a downright snitch.

I rarely watch/read/ or listen to American news stories anymore. CNN is overrun by stories about Britney Spears or whatever.

I'm aware that many people place the blame on teachers. But what i'm saying is, nobody here did such a thing. Therefore her overly-defensive post was unnecessary. I have several teachers in my family, i'm not unsympathetic to their issues. Everyone in this thread thus far has placed the majority of the responsibility onto the parents of the students and the restrictions and laws of our government.

Nobody is saying "don't tell her parents". What we are trying to say is that this situation needs to be handled with finesse in an attempt to keep lines of communication open. Worse things can happen than this 17 year old having sex. One wouldn't want her to clam up later over even more dangerous issues because she doesn't trust anyone.

This is a difficult situation, but in my opinion the only person who should tell would be the person she directly confided in. Since she did not tell you specifically then I don't know that it would be right for you to say anything because technically there is still the chance that what you were told was incorrect. I'm not saying your older sister is lying, but there could be miscommunications that you aren't aware of since you didn't hear it from the horse's mouth. But I don't know your situation first hand. Personally, I don't know that an older brother should be privy to information about his sister's sexual encounters. If your 19 year old sister was so desperate to vent or get advice and simply needed to tell someone, she should have gone to your parents not you. I hope you don't take that in an offensive way. What worries me is, if this girl is too scared to tell her parents she's had sex, i'll bet she's too scared to purchase birth control or condoms either. So not only is she possibly having sex, but possibly doing it unprotected too. I would have your 19 year old sister probe about it, and see if she can find out if this girl is at least making an effort to protect herself. She's in serious danger of becoming pregnant or sick anyway, the risk is even higher if she isn't on some sort of protection. I would try and convince your older sister to get her to confess to her parents, or if she felt more comfortable, her bishop. If you don't mind being the "mean sibling" (and she will most certainly think of you as such for a while) then you could perhaps approach her yourself and tell her that you are worried that she may be having sex since you've noticed she's gotten so serious with her boyfriend lately. If she denies it, let her know that if you find out she is then you will have no choice but to tell your parents. If she admits to it, try and convince her to talk to your parents or else you will. You don't have to tell her that your other sister told you anything. The ideal situation would be that she is straightforward with your parents. Why do you think she hasn't told them yet? Fear of punishment? Worried about their disappointment? Or is she scared that they will keep her from her boyfriend? Find out what it is that's keeping her from saying anything and that will make it easier to asses the situation.

I actually agree with you. I don't feel that it does. My testimony grows stronger every time I see negative or even just opposing views to my own. This is not true of everyone, but I feel that questioning your own beliefs from time to time is healthy for your spiritual growth just so long as it is aided by prayer. I often read anti-mormon propaganda just to get an idea of what their problems with our faith is. When I study the thoughts of others and do my own research afterwards then I can usually better argue my points when I personally encounter these people later. It's also often easier to witness to them if you can counter what they are saying in an intelligent manner. This is hard to accomplish if you don't understand where the negativity is coming from in the first place. A lot of atheists that I know use this method as well. Some of my friends with no belief in a deity read more scripture than most Christians I know so that they can use their knowledge in discussions with those who do profess belief as a form of debate ammunition. Interestingly enough, it works quite well. The same can be reversed to our advantage. Although to those of you out there who feel like it impacts your relationship with the spirit to read negative comments about our faith then certainly avoid it. But those of you who aren't affected, use it to more effectively witness and reason with non-believers.

Quote: Originally Posted by MichaelPAGuy Just typical, kick a man when he is down. Where is all the love the mormon church preaches about? Maybe i'm not reading my scriptures as often as I should, but I have yet to see any verses indicating that Heavenly Father or Christ are somehow opposed to discipline as a part of the repentance process. Everyone is subject to church discipline, not just your average joe members like your "friend". If the prophet himself committed a serious transgression he would be held to the same standards of accountability as anyone else. I have a feeling this thread was created with the sole purpose of disrespecting the leadership of the church and their decisions concerning the actions of their church members. If this is the case, I suggest you get over it. Nobody is forcing your obedience to the gospel.

I didn't see anyone bashing teachers, but the system that they are under. As a teacher you must certainly recognize the enormous problems in the academic world. Teachers are increasingly overworked and underpaid. I'm sure everyone in this thread realizes this. Criticism of the educational system is not necessarily criticism of the educators. Don't be so quick to take offense. I didn't see any posts in here that said teachers were the problem. For the record, I attended a public school and i'm well aware of what a metaphor is.

I'm honestly surprised this is the first time you've heard this. When I was in college, missionaries came to our apartment complex a lot, and were often referred to as the LDS Gestapo by our neighbors. It was a cruel thing to say, but the use of the word "Nazi" anymore is quite flippant. I've been called much worse since joining the church, I wouldn't be too concerned if someone called me a Nazi. And just for the record, this guy is in the minority. Most Christian bands are vehemently against the use of drugs and alcohol. I remember going to Cornerstone as a teen (a christian rock festival) and ciggs weren't even allowed in the parking lot or in your pocket or purse when you entered the festival. Same for alcohol. Please don't think that what he said is common of christian rock bands, I was very involved with that scene at one point in my life and I can tell you with certainty that it's exceedingly rare.

It really depends on the school. Mine was severely lacking in the arts. We didn't have band when I was in school, it was cut to give more money to the football team. My freshman year the theater club had their production shut down mid-preparation because some of the evangelical parents in the area thought it was blasphemous to do "Jesus Christ Superstar" and the school buckled under the criticism and shut down production. My senior year the valedictorian of my class was told by the guidance counselor that art school was a waste of time, and refused to send her transcripts to the art institute when she tried to apply. They are still in the middle of a lawsuit over that issue, and now have even less money for the arts. *smacks head*. My school has always done okay in traditional academics, but for the kids who are more interested in the fine arts or even vocational programs they fail miserably. Obviously not all schools are like mine was, it really is up to the parents and school faculty to work together in order to make a creative, yet practical and academically challenging place to be. Margin mentions no child left behind and is exactly correct. I remember AP/Honors courses and special ed. courses were cut my junior and senior year and we were all lumped into the same classes. It was insanity, there was no way that the teachers could even encourage basic learning in that environment, much less that of a creative caliber. The school sent us a letter after NCLB was passed ensuring all the parents that changes would be made to keep our school up to the "challenging standards" the new act set. Instead of being challenged, I was ignored by the teachers who were trying desperately to bring the other kids up to speed. In several of my classes the AP/Honor's kids were paired up with the special needs kids to help them during class so that the teacher could focus on the majority of the class who was of average learning. I don't recall getting paid to be a special ed teacher, and I certainly don't remember getting a degree in special education. No Child Left Behind, what a crock.

GoodK - While I share a lot of your opinions and viewpoints on civil liberties and politics, I have got to tell you that you need to be careful. I know you aren't meaning to be hateful with your posts, but others could easily interpret them as such. You and checks are both very intelligent people, so at this point the discussion really has nothing to do with one knowing more about laws than the other, but more so about interpretation of said laws. I know that it's easy to get frustrated when trying to argue a point, but don't let it get to the point where debate turns into belittlement. It's very easy to cross that line. Your passion is evident in all of your posts, and sometimes your discussions get out of hand. I just don't want this to escalate and you winding up banned. I like reading your posts. :)

My apologies, i'm not sure what you are getting at by that statement hemi.

Wow, what a bunch of nonsense. This is a forum for members of the LDS church. Seeing as how i'm a member, I have just as much a right to be here as anyone else. The church does not command that we all have exactly the same thought process. I'm not saying that you are wrong, i'm just saying that I view this issue differently. I can understand your point, it's just not the same as mine. Sheesh.

Typically, Psychiatrists prescribe medication while Psychologists deal with therapy and counseling. Some people are certified in both areas, but it's often easier to work in conjunction with a partner to lighten the workload.

^ Interesting points. Just for the record, I believe almost all of the things you listed should be legalized. The only limits I think should be enforced on guns would be that people with a violent history or a severe mental disorder should not be allowed to own them for obvious reasons. As far as incest goes...ew. But in my mind as long as the people in question are sterile and both are consenting adults then whatever floats your boat. Same with polygamy, as long as no one is forced into it, or children aren't cajoled into it then I don't know why it should be illegal. Marijuana I have never had issues with. I think it should be legalized. I personally gave that up when I grew up. But I do think it should be illegal to drive under the influence, once again common sense. The age of consent is a tricky one. I feel bad for the 19 year olds who are on sex offenders lists for the next ten years of their life because they made the stupid mistake of being intimate with someone only two years younger than they are. Although when middle aged men try and woo 14 year old girls in my mind it's pretty obvious that they are preying upon their ignorance. There is not much difference in sexual maturity between a 16 year old and an 18 year old, but there certainly is in the previously mentioned situation, but I digress. I always manage to get threads off-track. Interesting points although.

I don't know much about Canada, but do they have laws like ours for the freedom of religion and speech? If they do not, then that would explain why that would happen. I really should learn more about Canada, it often seems like everything is peaches and cream in their country but i'm starting to hear more and more about things like you've mentioned. If they do have laws like ours, then that's nonsense. In my opinion if a minister wants to give a sermon naked and preach that cows are a tool of Satan then he should certainly be free to do it in the privacy of his respective church. So long as what they are saying doesn't promote physically harming or harassing anyone then they should be allowed to say whatever they please in church. Somebody mentioned the Phelps family as well, those people promote the death of anyone who isn't in their incestuous little band of idiots and yet our government has only on one or two occasions stepped in and said "that's enough". If the US legal system can show restraint when it comes to people badmouthing and harassing our soldiers for the sake of upholding our freedom of speech and religion then I think that surely they can do so for other churches. Fian, you mentioned the overwhelming display of political-correctness in the direction of the Islam faith and I have to ask, do you listen to Mancow's Morning Madhouse? It's a radio show that I think you may enjoy if you don't already.

You are not a homosexual, therefore the government isn't telling you that you can or can't do anything. I think you are right, i'm still not seeing your point. Perhaps you could rephrase it?

Agreed, I was in group therapy with about 20 others who were diagnosed with Bi-Polar disorder and a few with clythomania (similar). It became very apparent to myself and other members that a lot of them were either self-diagnosed or incorrectly diagnosed. *slaps forehead*. When I heard these people whining about feeling a little grumpy one day and a little happy the next I couldn't help but think about the idiot doctors or parents who had them convinced they were Bi-Polar. Which with constant over-medicating and reassurance that there is something wrong with you, you actually can develop a REAL disorder. If you call a duck a dog enough times one day the duck will bark at you. During my first hospital stay I was put on a lockdown and given nothing for amusement but a few softcover books and some paper and crayons (pens and pencils were not allowed). I was manic out of my mind and did nothing for the first three hours but write down my thoughts exactly as they were. I still have those pages (around 35 in all) and to look at them from my now medicated state is still astounding to me almost ten years later. I may find some excerpts from them that don't contain foul language and scan them so people can see what the mind of someone with a mental disorder is like. I can tell you this much, I feel the spirit much stronger now that I actually have control over my thought process. I thank heavenly father for the group of doctors I encountered at the hospital every day, I feel that by providing me with good medical attention and medicine he was providing a way for me to actually hear the holy spirit.

That movie is awesome, I will gladly eat my DVD copy of Idiocracy when we start watering our plants with gatorade. It doesn't seem too far off. Cause, you know. It's what plants crave.

Sometimes I think that the people's votes should be overruled. The vast majority of the US probably would have voted to deny African Americans and women their rights at one point too. Good thing some people, however small the number was in the beginning, saw how silly that was. I agree that homosexuality is a sin. However, certain religious groups consider it a sin to eat pork. What if they were the majority in the US? Would it be fair for them to ban the consumption of pork products based on their beliefs? Of course not. Why? Because in a society that values freedom of religion we shouldn't create policies based on religious doctrine alone. Not everyone in the US believes that homosexual activity is a sin, and the only reason anyone can come up with against homosexuals marrying is that it's sinful. That to me is simply not a good enough reason. Why is it that heterosexual couples can marry dozens of times or have drunken Vegas weddings and get annulments the very next day? How is that respecting the sanctity of marriage? It certainly isn't, but we just roll our eyes and say "it's not our business" when stuff like that happens. I certainly don't think that homosexuals marrying is any of our business. As for them getting married in the church, that's something that cannot legally be breached as that would be a violation of church and state. Homosexuals can whine and complain about it all they want, but the government cannot tell a church official who they can marry. That's why we have secular justices of the peace. If a church WANTS to marry homosexuals then that's their prerogative. But nobody is going to hold one of our bishops down and force them to sign a marriage license. Why is everyone so terrified of gays infiltrating their church and school anyway? They aren't contagious, it's not like we are all going to catch the "gay" virus if their marriage is legal. I don't recall turning black when learning about the Civil War, or turning into a Nazi when being taught about the Holocaust. However, the subject just shouldn't be broached in school public school for the same reason that homosexual marriage should be legal. Because not everyone believes that it's okay and it's unfair to shove beliefs down people's throat. If you do your job as a parent correctly, then when your children hear about homosexuality being "normal and acceptable" then they will either debate it in an intelligent and respectful manner, or laugh it off as rubbish and go on with their lives. If children become traumatized by someone talking about homosexuals in their presence then they are going to have a rough time in the world. I certainly understand your concerns about this hemi. It's often difficult in a world so full of sin to sit back and watch be legalized on your tv. In my opinion, God will not be mocked and homosexuals will certainly change their mind about their lifestyles a few moments after they pass away.....

Oh my goodness. All of the horrible things going on in the world and we think gays marrying is a sign of the end times? Everyone needs to calm down. I still have yet to see what all the fuss is about.

I'm afraid I own the first six seasons on DVD. If I didn't have to tithe, i'd own all of them.

LOL at that Fian^. One thing I have to say is, I apologize for some of my heated remarks in this thread and another one concerning the FLDS. I don't always think before I type and I certainly don't care to hurt anyone's feelings or insult their thoughts or ideas. For this I specifically direct my apology towards Fian and Kosher. I'd say that 95% of the people in my family are lawyers, police officers, social workers and judges. Due to this, I often exhibit overconfidence in our judicial system. So when I see people like Warren Jeffs in jail I often think "well, he must have done something to deserve being there." Of course we all know that often people are targeted due to race, religion, etc and are sometimes falsely accused or imprisoned. I sometimes forget my bias for our government officials and quite often jump to conclusions due to it. I think that controversies like the situation at YFZ ranch are especially talked about in this community because we are LDS. Lets face it, as Mormons we get nitpicked a lot and when something so controversial is even remotely linked to us we jump to defenses and perhaps judge even MORE harshly than others . Like the missionaries who reportedly desecrated church property, a good number of us were quick to start stoking the fires for the witch burning. Because, god forbid, we don't want anyone thinking we are like THEM and make our "normal" church look bad. It is a severe error to think in this way. Are the members of the FLDS guilty of abusing children physically, sexually or emotionally? I don't know, and I certainly hope they are not. Every community harbors the occasional abuser, no matter what religion they prescribe to. I'm sure the YFZ ranch is no different in that regard. But is the entire community one of promoting abuse? I cannot say for sure. I can say one thing, in my mind this is a great example of why consenting polygamy should just be legal in the first place. This probably would have never happened if it were just legalized so that the government could regulate it in such a way that would assuage their fears. Like many other things that have been banned in the past, people will just find a loophole and do it anyway. Then the government REALLY has no control over the situation and becomes suspicious of other illegal activities. Until it is legalized (which I believe it eventually will be) people just need to be content with one wife. I understand that these men aren't LEGALLY married to more than one woman, but mocking the law by finding a loophole and just shacking up with a bunch of them and calling them "spiritual wives" is typically not a good idea. It simply draws unwanted attention to yourself from the government. Perhaps they can't arrest people for polygamy, but if the chip on their shoulder is big enough they will certainly dig for evidence of other crimes to smack you with to make up for it.

Up until I was 13, doctors had my parents convinced I was ADHD and had me on a huge dose of medication. They never did any psychiatric evaluation, they just told my mom "oh, she's hyperactive and defiant? must be ADHD." So they put me on medication and turned me lose more or less. Gee, what a wonder that it didn't work! I progressively became worse and worse on the Ritalin and Adderall, and the doctor just kept upping the dosage. It wasn't until I was 13 that I was finally diagnosed as Bi-Polar 1 with mania-induced psychosis after my parents took me to a hospital for an insane tantrum I was throwing that resulted in me breaking my own arm. The damage that the doctor who "diagnosed" me ADHD was permanent. My psychologists and psychiatrists believe that if that doctor hadn't given me so much medication for the misdiagnosis, then my current Bi-Polar wouldn't be as severe as it is today. I take 5 medications a day right now for this condition, my current doctors said that if I had been correctly diagnosed sooner then I wouldn't be on so many. Moral of the story? THINK about the drugs that they are putting you on. There is nothing wrong with getting a second opinion. Like any drugs, anti-depressants and other mood disorder drugs can worsen your mental state if not taken with great care. The effects of such drugs if not correctly given or taken can be permanent. My Bi-Polar is twice as bad now as it would have been if I had just gone to a psychologist who knew what they were doing, and not some rinky-dink family practitioner that doesn't know the first thing about mental illness and gives out Paxil and Adderall like candy. These drugs are highly over-used in my opinion. However, I know that were I not on my current "cocktail" of mood stabilizers, anti-psychotics and anti-depressants I would be a threat to myself and other people. It took a very long time to find the right medicines, dosages and combinations. Medicating a mental illness takes time, don't expect a quick fix and don't expect them to do their job without some therapy in the mix. Just be very careful when dealing with them. That's all I have to say.

As a former All-Star cheerleader myself, i've always been curious about cheerleading in "the bubble" so to speak. I know that around here the outfits are borderline pornographic at competitions, are they much different in Utah where a large number of people are LDS? Our All-star team was very conservatively uniformed in comparison to all the other teams, and thank goodness for that because I would hate to miss out on an activity I loved just because the outfits were trashy. On another note, does BYU have a cheerleading team? I've always wondered that as well.