Were

[WANDERER]

Those that were more valiant in the pre-existence more valiant in this existence? I'm curious about what people believe on this one.

[Vanhin]

We have our agency, and we had it in the pre-mortal existence as well. I guess it makes sense that someone who chose more valiantly then would have a disposition to do so now. It's not a given, however. We are free to choose, and Satan desires to make us miserable like himself. He works hard to inspire the mightest among us to fail, and some have.

On the flip-side, some were perhaps so valiant that their mortal probation was unnecessary. Take little children, for example, who die before the age of accountability. We know through modern revelation that they will inherit the celestial kingdom. They only came to obtain a body. So, perhaps a conclusion we can draw from that, is that they were super valiant in the pre-mortal world and God needed their talents elsewhere.

Edit: And some who are born with mental handicaps may also be exempt from accountability, and therefore their inheritance is the Celestial kingdom. God allows them to remain with us for his own purposes.

Sincerely,

Vanhin

[WANDERER]

Thankyou, I've been wondering about this one for ages.

[Hemidakota]

For others who were valiant as considered as the Great and Noble Ones, can assume they are given much in this life based on their previous desire or allow to receive a body, the fullness of gospel, experience what is needful for their own edification and return home.

Now, does that say He has favorites in this world?

[Guest tomk]

Those that were more valiant in the pre-existence more valiant in this existence? I'm curious about what people believe on this one.

Perhaps, but we must be careful, lest pride and envy enter in.

There are many who also fall short of promised blessings and do not fulfill their assignments.

There are also those who perhaps were not as valiant before, but in this life, once exposed to the saving truths, they step-up and become chosen by choosing the Lord more fully than they did previously.

To speculate on our station in life is folly.

I think the best course is to stay humble, listen for the Lord's voice unto us, and obey fearlessly. As fearlessly as we can :) US plus THE LORD makes us equal to any task we are given, valiant before or not.

[Hemidakota]

Quid pro quo

[ruthiechan]

Edit: And some who are born with mental handicaps may also be exempt from accountability, and therefore their inheritance is the Celestial kingdom. God allows them to remain with us for his own purposes.

Sincerely,

Vanhin

A fellow in my old ward had downs syndrome. He was always in primary with us. In a blessing he was told that he was one of the people who actually physically touched Satan to help toss him out of heaven and that was why he had downs syndrome, to protect him from Satan. (paraphrased of course).

[Guest tomk]

A fellow in my old ward had downs syndrome. He was always in primary with us. In a blessing he was told that he was one of the people who actually physically touched Satan to help toss him out of heaven and that was why he had downs syndrome, to protect him from Satan. (paraphrased of course).

While I don't (dare) discount this -- I have heard this SO MUCH that I am beginning to think this is a Mormon "Urban Legend" of sorts.

It probably had some truth, sometime, somewhere.

[MaidservantX]

Defining 'valiant' may be helpful -- and difficult.

Who is more valiant?

Who has more faith?

How big is the mountain that an individual must move in their life with their faith?

You certainly cannot tell by looking on the 'outside' of a person.

If someone is in church on Sunday, are they more valiant? If someone is missing in church on Sunday, are they less valiant? Again -- it's impossible to tell from just something like that, because we don't know what kind of mountains each of us are moving and what amount of faith we each have marshalled to struggle towards the light in this world.

Gospel according to X: I actually think that some of the most valiant spirits were sent here to some of the crappiest mortal circumstances -- because perhaps they were the only ones who could handle it (they agreed to it), and they would be able to show us the way by rising above their huge challenges. But maybe we take a quick look on the outside of them and our assessment of them lacks understanding.

I do think that whatever "spirit" we left with from our previous heavenly home is the spirit we were born with here on earth -- but there is so much challenge that awaits us here on earth -- it's just nuts! It's like WWF with the Adversary on one side and the Child of God on the other sometimes!

God bless and good luck to all of us. :)

[VisionOfLehi]

I was one of the faithful and valiant (or, courageous, at least) in the pre-existence.

Was I "more" faithful or valiant? I do not know.

But I know that because of my faith and courage (then, and now) I have many blessings in my life. I was born in America... And though I've never been monetarily wealthy by our standards, what I have is kingly to some on Earth. I have had and will have many more opportunities, and I know, again, that it's because of my faith and courage.

I had the chance to join the Lord's Church while in this life. I will have a family and be a leader unto them.

This because of my faith and courage.

I feel in my soul that I am a warrior of God. I feel that in the pre-mortal life I was more courageous than I am now, but I will be able to grow to be just as brave and valiant as I was, and moreso.

As for others? I don't know. I often feel as X does. Those who endure some of the worst conditions in this life were perhaps some of the "stronger" spirits before, with the strength to handle what is put before them.

Heavenly knows us all, and loves us all. I don't believe he gives anyone a certain lifestyle or environment as punishment. He knows what we need in this life...

27 And if men come unto me I will show unto them their weakness. I give unto men weakness that they may be humble; and my grace is sufficient for all men that humble themselves before me; for if they humble themselves before me, and have faith in me, then will I make weak things become strong unto them.

[WANDERER]

If pre-existence is a totally new idea to you...then thinking through how a pre-existence changes things or concepts is something you do... it's relevant when reading different explanations of attonement from an LDS perception. This gives me a better understanding.

[Moksha]

I think this whole more valiant and less valiant business in like the tar pits were to ancient mammals. You fall into an irretrievably sticky mess once you start speculating on it.

[WANDERER]

Not really speculating Moshka...just investigating.

[mnn727]

Those that were more valiant in the pre-existence more valiant in this existence? I'm curious about what people believe on this one.

Who was more valient in the pre-existance? Modern day Prophets have said in no uncertain terms that there were no 'fence sitters' in the pre-existance, that people that had said that did not know what they were talking about.

[Hemidakota]

You are correct.....something years ago that really troubled me until I was given the opportunity to finally understand it.

[NateHowe]

If we have come to this earth to receive a mortal body, it means we were valiant in the premortal life and have the opportunity to prove our faithfulness in this life. Each of us had our roles, but every person you see on the street was valiant in the premortal life. Obviously, many of us are lost, confused, or rebellious in this life, so we have varying levels of valiance. But being born into a family where the Gospel is not taught does not mean that a person was less valiant before this life than a lifelong Mormon.

[checkerboy]

K just to throw a wrench in the works I would like to propose that there are those among us that did not keep their first estate. The unvalient if you will. But because they didn't follow Satan they still are to receive a body and a kingdom, not necessarily of glory. I am not just pulling this out of my hat either. There have been many general authorities that have speculated on the subject. I say speculated because obviously it isn't being presented as doctrine, just something to think about. For a collection of what some GA's have said on the subject go to this link.

Preexistent First Estate

[Hemidakota]

Well done on that throwing that wrench....this is an area requires ponderous prayer for a truthful answer from GOD.

[WANDERER]

Thanks for the reading Checkerboy. It was rather interesting. I wanted to see where the idea originated and what the thought processes behind it were : ) .