W

[Elphaba]

This is a poster for a new film Oliver Stone is making about Bush. I thought it was very funny, and remember Laura remarking how she'd even get mad at him for these. So all of you Bushies have to admit, even if you love him:

They. Are. Oh. So. True!

[NeuroTypical]

What are so true? That he said these things? I guess that's correct. That mockery and scorn is worthy of a quick chuckle? I suppose we do laugh when we mock, but whether that's worthy of us or not is another thing.

I compare stuff like this against similar stuff the right puts out. I remember those collections of Al Gore's sayings. Big difference: They were all lies (remember, he invented the internet, right?). I guess the best folks can do against W is just point a mocking finger of scorn and remind everyone of the times he misspoke.

Count me unimpressed of the latest Oliver Stone mockfest.

LM

[Palerider]

All Politicians make goofs like this.....some just run from sniper fire...ooppssss....that one was not truthfull.....I think all Presidents are guilty of this....some more than others ...as well as current Politicians.....

[Dr T]

I think those are hilarious! Sometimes I just shake my head at what's been said.

[Palerider]

I think those are hilarious! Sometimes I just shake my head at what's been said.

Whats great is all the late night talk shows will always mention these things....there are alot of good ones

[Moksha]

Jay Leno and David Letterman always had President Bush's utterances to fall back upon during the writer's strike. They did not need touching up.

[Palerider]

Jay Leno and David Letterman always had President Bush's utterances to fall back upon during the writer's strike. They did not need touching up.

and lets not forget about all the candidates that were running....LOL!!!!

[mightynancy]

Keep your shirt on, Loudmouth. Right-wing, pro-Republican Rush Limbaugh is all about mockery that makes a point. It's not just us libs. I do find it distressing that our President is so ineloquent.

And please, let's not discuss lies in this thread...both sides are guilty of lies. Big lies, little lies, lies that cost lives.

[NeuroTypical]

Keep your shirt on, Loudmouth.

I find it hard to believe that anyone can look at my avatar and not wish to feast their eyes on my verile masculine rippling pectoral muscles.

[mightynancy]

I urge you to keep your shirt on. To protect my virtue.

[Moksha]

To protect my virtue.

[Dr T]

That is just grand Moksha! THank you for that one. :)

[Elphaba]

I compare stuff like this against similar stuff the right puts out. I remember those collections of Al Gore's sayings. Big difference: They were all lies (remember, he invented the internet, right?)

No, he did not invent the internet, and he never said he did. It is a myth, perpetuated by every media outlet, pundit, politician, and comedian, both right and left.

What Gore did do is strongly support those who did invent the internet, getting them financial support for its development, and in that he was extremely far-sighted. But even Newt Gingrich admits Gore did not said he invented the internet.

I guess the best folks can do against W is just point a mocking finger of scorn and remind everyone of the times he misspoke.

Oh, I can do better.

Bush has lied constantly to the American people about critical and substantive issues, including the Iraq war. Numerous people who have left his administration, including Richard Clarke, Paul O‘Neill, George Tenant, Colin Powell, and now Scott McLellan, give evidence of this.

McLellan, one of Bush’s most loyal political aides, has admitted Bush relied on propaganda to justify his invasion of Iraq. In fact, he wrote:

"And the perception of this catastrophe [Katrina] was made worse by previous decisions President Bush had made, including, first and foremost, the failure to be open and forthright on Iraq and rushing to war with inadequate planning and preparation for its aftermath.”

Obviously Bush’s most egregious lie is his insistence, perpetuated by his machine, that Iraq presented a fairly urgent threat America.

The result of these lies is hundreds of thousands of people are either dead or wounded, and have lived through five years of unspeakable hell.

For example, he lied in his SOTU speech about yellowcake in Niger, intimating it was a reason for us to invade Iraq. His own people now admit he was told there was no evidence for this. Nonetheless, he literally chose to lie to the American people by keeping this in his speech.

He lied that if he discovered any of his staff had outed Valerie Plame, he would fire him/her. Although Cheney was guilty, Bush did nothing, rather, he commuted the sentence of the one man who was convicted of outing her.

He lied that as soon as Iraq was stable, we would leave the country. Yet, he has built the largest, (and ugliest) American embassy in Baghdad, with a signed agreement we will keep an American presence in Iraq, indefinitely.

He lied about Jack Abramhoff. He lied about the Iran NIE. He lied about Iraq having an unmanned fleet of aircraft that could be used against us. He lied by citing a report by the International Atomic Energy Agency that said Iraq was within six months of having nuclear weapons. He lied about Katrina. He lied about about Gonzalez. He even lied about Cuba.

Every president has lied, I acknowledge this. Clinton was one of the worst, making a young woman, dazzled by the POTUS who she thought loved her, his patsy.

But that lie did not destroy this country's standing on the world stage, as Colin Powell claimed Bush's policies did when he wrote: . . . "the world is beginning to doubt the moral basis of our fight against terrorism."

And you’re straining at a relative gnat like Gore?

Elphaba

[Palerider]

Pale smiles at Emma as he says...lets not forget the Clinton lies....and we could go on and on.....i think all politicians lie...

[NeuroTypical]

No, he did not invent the internet, and he never said he did. It is a myth, perpetuated by every media outlet, pundit, politician, and comedian, both right and left.

I got my term wrong - he said "create" not "invent".

"During my service in the United States Congress, I took the initiative in creating the Internet." -Al Gore, March 1999 interview with Wolf Blitzer.

Here is the audio with added-on goofy graphics.

is his quote set to music.

What Gore did do is strongly support those who did invent the internet, getting them financial support for its development, and in that he was extremely far-sighted. But even Newt Gingrich admits Gore did not said he invented the internet.

So, given that every one of the quotes on that W poster have similar charitable explanations, are you ready to measure out equal judgement on the subject of goofy quoting? Or are you holding a double standard, saying that while Al Gore is fine when he said "I took the initiative in creating the Internet", Bush has a problem when he makes a gaffe or blunder?

I decided long ago never to defend any politician, since I figure that all of them lie. Instead, I spend my time figuring out if people have double standards, defending 'their guy' while attacking the 'other guy' for doing the same thing.

LM

[Elphaba]

I got my term wrong - he said "create" not "invent".

Not exactly.

He said he took the initiative to create the internet. And all parties involved agree this is true.

A good analogy is that of a city mayor. He takes the initiative in doing whatever it takes to build a bridge he belives is necessary to his city.

Does he draw up the blue prints? No, he does not.

Does he supervise the construction? No, he does not.

Did he take the initiative to create the bridge, getting government support and financing? Yes, he did, and the earliest developers of the web agree Gore did the same.

So, given that every one of the quotes on that W poster have similar charitable explanations, are you ready to measure out equal judgement on the subject of goofy quoting? Or are you holding a double standard, saying that while Al Gore is fine when he said "I took the initiative in creating the Internet", Bush has a problem when he makes a gaffe or blunder?

The latter, without the double standard nonsense.

Phillip Hallam-Baker, is a former member of the CERN Web development team that created the basic structure of the World Wide Web. He writes:

In the early days of the Web, he [Gore] was a believer, not after the fact when our success was already established -- he gave us help when it counted. He got us the funding to set up at MIT after we got kicked out of CERN for being too successful. He also personally saw to it that the entire federal government set up Web sites.

There are numerous quotes from the original web developers confirming Hallam-Baker's explanation of Gore's support.

And to ignore Gore's contribution, which is correctly defined as the "initiative, is revisionist history.

I decided long ago never to defend any politician, since I figure that all of them lie. Instead, I spend my time figuring out if people have double standards, defending 'their guy' while attacking the 'other guy' for doing the same thing.

Gore's claim, supported by all who were involved in the development of the web, was accurate.

Bush's gaffes are technically inaccurate, or they wouldn't be gaffes. But compared to his other sins, as outlined in my last post, I have no problem dismissing his verbal gaffes.

I do not, however, dismiss his other gaffes that have resulted in unecessary bloodshed.

As far as the Bushisms, try and look at it this way: If they weren't on an Oliver Stone poster, would you then think they are funny?

If not, that is cool. We all have, and are entitled to, our own opinions. Does that make them double standards? Perhaps.

But sometimes you just gotta laugh, and Gore's quote is just not that funny.

But even Dennis Miller, a Bush supporter, said: "Bush never said we'd find nuclear weapons in Iraq. He said nucular."

Elphaba

P.S. I don't have sound, so I'm sorry I couldn't watch your videos. I'll look them up when my laptop is returned. E.

[Fiannan]

At least Bush correctly knows that the USA is made up fo 50 states.

[Fiannan]

Pale smiles at Emma as he says...lets not forget the Clinton lies....and we could go on and on.....i think all politicians lie...

You know, now that Hillary has conceded we can now discuss her name here and her statements. When Romney conceded that was allowed so I would assume it's now allowed here at the forum to go into detaisl, isn't it?

[Palerider]

You know, now that Hillary has conceded we can now discuss her name here and her statements. When Romney conceded that was allowed so I would assume it's now allowed here at the forum to go into detaisl, isn't it?

I believe it is.......