Marriage

[Heavenguard]

After giving the idea of celestial marriage a pondering, some points of observations came to mind.

As I understand it (please correct any mistakes), when a man and woman are married in the temple, they are bound or sealed to/with each other in this and the eternal life.

Romans 7

An Illustration From Marriage

1Do you not know, brothers—for I am speaking to men who know the law—that the law has authority over a man only as long as he lives? 2For example, by law a married woman is bound to her husband as long as he is alive, but if her husband dies, she is released from the law of marriage. 3So then, if she marries another man while her husband is still alive, she is called an adulteress. But if her husband dies, she is released from that law and is not an adulteress, even though she marries another man.

Matthew 22

Marriage at the Resurrection

23That same day the Sadducees, who say there is no resurrection, came to him with a question. 24"Teacher," they said, "Moses told us that if a man dies without having children, his brother must marry the widow and have children for him. 25Now there were seven brothers among us. The first one married and died, and since he had no children, he left his wife to his brother. 26The same thing happened to the second and third brother, right on down to the seventh. 27Finally, the woman died. 28Now then, at the resurrection, whose wife will she be of the seven, since all of them were married to her?"

29Jesus replied, "You are in error because you do not know the Scriptures or the power of God. 30At the resurrection people will neither marry nor be given in marriage; they will be like the angels in heaven. 31But about the resurrection of the dead—have you not read what God said to you, 32'I am the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob'[a]? He is not the God of the dead but of the living."

33When the crowds heard this, they were astonished at his teaching.

It would seem to me that Paul and Jesus suggest that marriage is a sacrament meant only for this Earthly lifetime.

I read also this article (LDS.org - Ensign Article - First Presidency Message Temples and Eternal Marriage) that says :

Dr. James E. Talmage writes: “The Lord’s meaning was clear, that in the resurrected state there can be no question among the seven brothers as to whose wife for eternity the woman shall be, since all except the first had married her for the duration of mortal life only. … In the resurrection, there will be no marrying nor giving in marriage; for all questions of marital status must be settled before that time, under the authority of the Holy Priesthood, which holds the power to seal in marriage for both time and eternity.” (Jesus the Christ, p. 548.)

Also, concerning angels:

D&C 132:17 17 For these angels did not abide my law; therefore, they cannot be enlarged, but remain separately and singly, without exaltation, in their saved condition, to all eternity; and from henceforth are not gods, but are angels of God forever and ever. /

In Matthew, Jesus says "people" will neither marry or be given in marriage, and "they" will be like angels. I see no distinction made by Jesus to separate the first husband and the wife from the remaining six brothers (as the author of the article did), and so would see Jesus' "they" and "people" to encompass them. The meaning I would extract from this is that all people, married or not, become like angels. But according to the D&C, the unmarried (or not married in the temple) stay as singular angels while their sealed counterparts are exalted to godship.

Er, no question really. Just a presentation of the points noted in my head, so that you may present those in yours.

[Dale]

I see a way out for LDS. The law is not the final authority in regards to matters of faith and practice. Since Jesus based his answer on an abolished law and rules he could have learned more in the afterlife. Only if Moses was the final authority could Jesus mortal answer have to be the final answer. If his answer was not as clearly final as it looks like at first glance would he be prevented from abandoning his mortal answer. He could have learned of a higher law that revealed eternal marriage.

It is also possible for Jesus to play dumb. He could have if we speculate known about the future practice of eternal marriage. But being asked about Moses words he had no room to tell them about possible mysteries.

Jesus the mortal man also may not have known everything. So not knowing about eternal marriage yet so he denied there would be any.

Eternal marriage is not a belief on mine, but i have entertained the above answers as some i feel comfortable with.

[PapilioMemnon]

In Genesis 1, during the spiritual creation, when man & woman were created, God marry them, and gave them the commandment to be fruitful, multiply, and replenish the earth; it clearly suggests they were married for eternity since there's no mentioning of a period of time.

Later on, divorce was introduce into the world, as Jesus said on Matthew 19, read it carefully (Emphasis added):

3 The Pharisees also came unto him, tempting him, and saying unto him, Is it lawful for a man to put away his wife for every cause?

4 And he answered and said unto them, Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female,

5 And said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh?

6 Wherefore they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder.

7 They say unto him, Why did Moses then command to give a writing of divorcement, and to put her away?

8 He saith unto them, Moses because of the hardness of your hearts suffered you to put away your wives: but from the beginning it was not so.

Modern revelation has allowed divorced people to re-marry as our Prophets and Apostles have mentioned.

When a person chooses to marry outside the eternal covenant, outside the Temple, the person is married only for the life of the mortal body. Since it was not sealed by the power and authority of the priesthood in the Temple, by those who have authority & power to seal all things in earth and in heaven, it only lasts for the time of mortality; they cannot marry in the resurrection; there's no marriage done there; these things have to be done here while we are alive.

Therefore, it shows us the great importance of choosing the right person to marry; it will reflect in eternity! They have counseled us to marry the right person, in the right place, by the right authority!

Those who were not able to marry in this life for lack of good opportunity (A good, not perfect, just good priesthood holder, a man of God who walk in His ways), will have the opportunity to be married then if that is the desire of their hearts. If one does not have the opportunity, but would gladly embrace it, be it to be married, have children, etc..., will be given an opportunity to have all these things.

Those who had, ignored it, didn't want it, wasted their probation time with less important things or made wrong choices despite all the counsels and guidance of our Prophets, and the Lord's words, will not be given the same opportunity for they already had it, and made a choice!

I hope this helps!

[Misshalfway]

There is a difference between marriage and becoming sealed.

[Guest User-Removed]

I see a way out for LDS. The law is not the final authority in regards to matters of faith and practice. Since Jesus based his answer on an abolished law and rules he could have learned more in the afterlife. Only if Moses was the final authority could Jesus mortal answer have to be the final answer. If his answer was not as clearly final as it looks like at first glance would he be prevented from abandoning his mortal answer. He could have learned of a higher law that revealed eternal marriage.

It is also possible for Jesus to play dumb. He could have if we speculate known about the future practice of eternal marriage. But being asked about Moses words he had no room to tell them about possible mysteries.

Jesus the mortal man also may not have known everything. So not knowing about eternal marriage yet so he denied there would be any.

Eternal marriage is not a belief on mine, but i have entertained the above answers as some i feel comfortable with.

Dale...I'm curious, are you comfortable with the fact that MacMurrey and now Vezeay(SP?) have done a 180 from almost everything taught by JSIII?

[Dale]

I do not feel uncomfortable with a prophet not being a conservative. If God has no objection to his leadership why should i? I mostly agree with him, but in a few areas. I do not see anything in our current belief statement, and my copy of Exploring the Faith which explains that statement that i disagree with. Our prophet holds those ideas i accept even if not as conservative as i am.

That some of my church presidents take a liberal approach to Book of Mormon historicity, or other issues of today does not make me want to throw out President Stephen Veazey as Prophet. It is my hope that common consent via conferences keeps the prophets eccentric impulses in check, but prophets are human. Conferences we hold are ran by human beings and can make decisions as badly or as good as i can as a human being. People who run the church have opinions that may be wrong, or true and that effects the decisions they make.

Brigham Young taught some ideas in his sermons that are not LDS doctrine. Some of his ideas like Adam God have provoked several approaches to interpreting it among LDS. If he was wrong i do not see LDS members rejecting him as a prophet. Being uncomfortable with a prophets ideas that are purported to be different from the last prophet need not cause us to reject that prophet.

We hope if our last prophet held some false ideas that the next prophet will not continue those ideas, but that is up to God who he selects as next prophet.

Joseph Smith 3rd did not continue the idea, or practice of eternal marriage which his father accepted. That is to me an example of a prophet disagreeing with a previous prophet. He did not continue a list of other ideas attributed to his father which we found speculative. LDS accepted Brigham Young's leadership so that idea and others was continued among LDS.

I do not accept our prophets based on my comfort level. I accept their leadership because they got their calling from a previous prophet.

[Traveler]

After giving the idea of celestial marriage a pondering, some points of observations came to mind.

As I understand it (please correct any mistakes), when a man and woman are married in the temple, they are bound or sealed to/with each other in this and the eternal life.

It would seem to me that Paul and Jesus suggest that marriage is a sacrament meant only for this Earthly lifetime.

I read also this article (LDS.org - Ensign Article - First Presidency Message Temples and Eternal Marriage) that says :

Also, concerning angels:

In Matthew, Jesus says "people" will neither marry or be given in marriage, and "they" will be like angels. I see no distinction made by Jesus to separate the first husband and the wife from the remaining six brothers (as the author of the article did), and so would see Jesus' "they" and "people" to encompass them. The meaning I would extract from this is that all people, married or not, become like angels. But according to the D&C, the unmarried (or not married in the temple) stay as singular angels while their sealed counterparts are exalted to godship.

Er, no question really. Just a presentation of the points noted in my head, so that you may present those in yours.

Just so that I am clear concerning your beliefs. Do you believe Peter was allowed to perform a marriage (sealing)? How did the sealing power given to Peter relate to the Law? Did Peter really have to power to seal on earth and that all things he sealed would be sealed in heaven?

The Traveler

[Heavenguard]

Just so that I am clear concerning your beliefs. Do you believe Peter was allowed to perform a marriage (sealing)? How did the sealing power given to Peter relate to the Law? Did Peter really have to power to seal on earth and that all things he sealed would be sealed in heaven?

The Traveler

If this question is directed to me,

No, I don't believe Peter was allowed to perform a marriage (sealing or not). Peter was a fisherman, and did not have any Earthly authority to perform a marriage. I believe he may have blessed a marriage, but not perform it. The early church was an underground movement in its day, it would not have been until after Constantine that its leaders would have been empowered with the right to perform marriages. I understand there are sealings that occur post-wedding day, under that idea, I have no contention that he may have sealed people, but not perform or govern a wedding ceremony.

I don't know what relation there is to the Law or what you mean by it.

I don't necessarily think that Peter did or didn't have that power, however I concede that Jesus gave him authority in the Spirit and may very well have respected Peter's actions and works and maintained anything he sealed. I don't think it would be a power of his own virtue.

Edit: If not directed at me... everyone else carry on >_>

Those who were not able to marry in this life for lack of good opportunity (A good, not perfect, just good priesthood holder, a man of God who walk in His ways), will have the opportunity to be married then if that is the desire of their hearts. If one does not have the opportunity, but would gladly embrace it, be it to be married, have children, etc..., will be given an opportunity to have all these things.

This seems to be the direct opposite of: 29Jesus replied, "You are in error because you do not know the Scriptures or the power of God. 30At the resurrection people will neither marry nor be given in marriage; they will be like the angels in heaven.

[PapilioMemnon]

If this question is directed to me,

No, I don't believe Peter was allowed to perform a marriage (sealing or not). Peter was a fisherman, and did not have any Earthly authority to perform a marriage. I believe he may have blessed a marriage, but not perform it. The early church was an underground movement in its day, it would not have been until after Constantine that its leaders would have been empowered with the right to perform marriages. I understand there are sealings that occur post-wedding day, under that idea, I have no contention that he may have sealed people, but not perform or govern a wedding ceremony.

I don't know what relation there is to the Law or what you mean by it.

I don't necessarily think that Peter did or didn't have that power, however I concede that Jesus gave him authority in the Spirit and may very well have respected Peter's actions and works and maintained anything he sealed. I don't think it would be a power of his own virtue.

Edit: If not directed at me... everyone else carry on >_>

This seems to be the direct opposite of: 29Jesus replied, "You are in error because you do not know the Scriptures or the power of God. 30At the resurrection people will neither marry nor be given in marriage; they will be like the angels in heaven.

Hello HG,

In Matthew 18, the Apostles were given the keys to the kingdom by Jesus Christ

18 Verily I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall abind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever ye shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

19 Again I say unto you, That if two of you shall aagree on earth as btouching any thing that they shall cask, it shall be done for them of my Father which is in heaven.

Whatever was/is done in this life, on earth, it will continue throughout the eternities as the word "bind" is the key word.

"The covenant of eternal marriage is necessary for exaltation. The Lord revealed through Joseph Smith: "In the celestial glory there are three heavens or degrees; and in order to obtain the highest, a man must enter into this order of the priesthood [meaning the new and everlasting covenant of marriage]; and if he does not, he cannot obtain it. He may enter into the other, but that is the end of his kingdom; he cannot have an increase" (D&C 131:1–4).

After receiving the sealing ordinance and making sacred covenants in the temple, a couple must continue in faithfulness in order to receive the blessings of eternal marriage and exaltation. The Lord said:

"If a man marry a wife by my word, which is my law, and by the new and everlasting covenant, and it is sealed unto them by the Holy Spirit of promise, by him who is anointed, unto whom I have appointed this power and the keys of this priesthood; . . . and if [they] abide in my covenant, . . . it shall be done unto them in all things whatsoever my servant hath put upon them, in time, and through all eternity; and shall be of full force when they are out of the world" (D&C 132:19)."" LDS.org - Topic Definition - Marriage

* The Importance of Celestial Marriage - By President Spencer W. Kimball LDS.org - Ensign Article - The Importance of Celestial Marriage

* Temples and Eternal Marriage - President Spencer W. Kimball LDS.org - Ensign Article - First Presidency Message Temples and Eternal Marriage

"The Lord knew that those who were sincere in heart and who really wished to know the mysteries of the kingdom would seek and search prayerfully until they informed themselves.

It will be remembered how the Lord answered the hypocritical Sadducees who, trying to trap him, propounded this difficult problem:

The husband died leaving no posterity, and the wife married his brother who also died without seed. She in turn married a third brother, a fourth, a fifth, a sixth, and a seventh all in accordance with the law of Moses, and then the woman of the seven husbands died also. Now the frustrating question is:

“In the resurrection therefore, when they shall rise, whose wife shall she be of them? for the seven had her to wife.” (Mark 12:23.) The Redeemer’s answer was clear and concise and unmistakable:

“… Do ye not therefore err, because ye know not the scriptures, neither the power of God?” (Mark 12:24.)

And now, we ask you, what does this mean? The Sadducees were discussing matters about which they knew little or nothing. Was there accusation in his voice? Was he saying to the Sadducees, “Open your blind eyes and see? Open your stony hearts and understand?”

My friends, do you understand the implications and truth of this statement of the Lord? Though somewhat veiled in scripture, it is clear and understandable when supported by modern revelation.

Dr. James E. Talmage writes: “The Lord’s meaning was clear, that in the resurrected state there can be no question among the seven brothers as to whose wife for eternity the woman shall be, since all except the first had married her for the duration of mortal life only. … In the resurrection, there will be no marrying nor giving in marriage; for all questions of marital status must be settled before that time, under the authority of the Holy Priesthood, which holds the power to seal in marriage for both time and eternity.” (Jesus the Christ, p. 548.)

Undoubtedly, the first husband married the woman for eternity by a ceremony which was not limited by time. She became a widow at his demise until she should also die and join her husband. Now, she married brother number two, “until death do you part,” and it definitely parted them even before posterity, and he went into the spirit world through the veil and with no wife, for their contract also had been terminated by death. And brothers number three and four and five and six and finally number seven in turn—all married her in temporary marriage, in which ceremonies were the limitations, “so long as you both shall live.” And death terminated what happiness they had had and their promise of future bliss.

Civil marriage is an earthly contract, completed in the death of either party. Eternal celestial marriage is a sacred covenant between man and woman, consecrated in the holy temple by servants of God who hold authoritative keys. It bridges death; it includes both time and eternity.

The Lord then further clarifies the eternal marriage:

“… All covenants, contracts, bonds, obligations, oaths, vows, performances, connections, associations, or expectations, that are not made and entered into and sealed by the Holy Spirit of promise, of him who is anointed, both as well for time and for all eternity, … are of no efficacy, virtue, or force in and after the resurrection from the dead; for all contracts that are not made unto this end have an end when men are dead.” (D&C 132:7.)

The marriages then which are made only “so long as you both shall live” or “until death do you part” are sadly terminated when the last mortal breath is gasped.

The Lord is merciful, but mercy cannot rob justice. His mercy extended to us when he died for us. His justice prevails when he judges us and gives us the blessings which we have duly earned.

“… no one can reject this covenant and be permitted to enter into my glory,” says the Lord.

“For all who will have a blessing at my hands shall abide the law which was appointed for that blessing, and the conditions thereof as were instituted from before the foundation of the world.” (D&C 132:4–5.)

A civil marriage may be performed by any of the numerous people approved by laws of the respective countries, but the eternal marriage must be solemnized by one of the few properly authorized. Christ says:

“Will I accept of an offering, saith the Lord, that is not made in my name?

“Or will I receive at your hands that which I have not appointed?” (D&C 132:9–10.)

It is the Redeemer who postulates:

“Therefore, if a man marry him a wife in the world, and he marry her not by me nor by my word, and he covenant with her so long as he is in the world and she with him, their covenant and marriage are not of force when they are dead, and when they are out of the world; therefore, they are not bound by any law when they are out of the world.” (D&C 132:15.)

He then reiterates that “… everything that is in the world, whether it be ordained of men, by thrones, or principalities, or powers, or things of name, whatsoever they may be, that are not by me or by my word, saith the Lord, shall be thrown down, and shall not remain after men are dead, neither in nor after the resurrection, saith the Lord your God.” (D&C 132:13.)

How final! How frightening! Since we know well that mortal death does not terminate our existence, since we know that we live on and on, how devastating to realize that marriage and family life, so sweet and happy in so many homes, will end with death because we fail to follow God’s instructions or because we reject his word when we understand it.

It is clear in the Lord’s announcement that righteous men and women will receive the due rewards of their deeds. They will not be damned in the commonly accepted terminology but will suffer many limitations and deprivations and fail to reach the highest kingdom, if they do not comply. They become ministering servants to those who complied with all laws and lived all commandments.

He then continues concerning these excellent people who lived worthily but failed to make their contracts binding:

“For these angels did not abide my law; therefore, they cannot be enlarged, but remain separately and singly, without exaltation, in their saved condition, to all eternity; and from henceforth are not gods, but are angels of God forever and ever.” (D&C 132:17.)

How conclusive! How bounded! How limiting! And we come to realize again as it bears heavily upon us that this time, this life, this mortality is the time to prepare to meet God. How lonely and barren will be the so-called single blessedness throughout eternity! How sad to be separate and single and apart through countless ages when one could, by meeting requirements, have happy marriage for eternity in the temple by proper authority and continue on in ever-increasing joy and happiness, growth and development toward godhood. ''

Presidents of the Church Speak on Temple Marriage - LDS.org - New Era Article - Presidents of the Church Speak on Temple Marriage

No one will be married at the resurrection; I think I said that before, but I did made mention of what happens when somone was not able to be sealed (Entered into the eternal marriage covenant) in this life, and that is another principle we believe. Let me see what I can find about it.

"Some people, because of circumstances beyond their control, may not be able to enter the temple in this life. It is comforting to know that they can receive the ordinance of sealing for eternity vicariously in the temple." Eternal Marriage - “Lesson 10: Eternal Marriage,” The Latter-day Saint Woman: Basic Manual for Women, Part A, 66

LDS.org - Relief Society Chapter Detail - Eternal Marriage

For people who are single as I said, if a person had not a good chance to be married, that is, make the eternal covenant of marriage - selaing - in the temple:

A Vision of What We Can Be - President James E. Faust - LDS.org - Ensign Article - A Vision of What We Can Be

"Problems, challenges, and heartaches come to all of us regardless of gender, whether we are married or single, or whether or not we are limited physically or mentally. Many of the blessings of membership are the same for all members of the Church, regardless of marital status. All must be baptized. All, if worthy, can attend the temple. Missionary service is an opportunity. All may receive priesthood blessings, including patriarchal blessings. The key to happiness does not lie alone in gender or marital status or parenthood or being free of physical challenges. Happiness comes from living the teachings of the Savior and having the vision to see what He would have us become. Remember what he said: “He that findeth his life shall lose it: and he that loseth his life for my sake shall find it” (Matt. 10:39). Because we have been given the challenges of mortality, this life is a proving ground for the eternities.

“This is the church of Jesus Christ, not the church of marrieds or singles or any other group or individual. …

“… While it is true that worthy couples will obtain exaltation in the celestial kingdom, each man and each woman sealed in an eternal relationship must be individually worthy of that blessing” (Ensign, June 1989, p. 76).

I wish to reaffirm what has been said by so many prophets. No righteous person will be denied any blessings which come from God. President Spencer W. Kimball said this most eloquently: “I am aware of some … who seemingly have not been successful in total fulfillment. Some have been on missions; some have completed their education. And yet they have passed the period of their greatest opportunity for marriage. The time has passed, and while still attractive and desirable and efficient, they find themselves alone.

“To [the large group of young men and women in this category] we say this: You are making a great contribution to the world as you serve your families and the Church. … You must remember that the Lord loves you and the Church loves you. … We have no control over the heartbeats or the affections of men [or women], but pray that you may find fulfillment. And in the meantime, we promise you that insofar as eternity is concerned, no soul will be deprived of rich and high and eternal blessings for anything which that person could not help, that the Lord never fails in his promises, and that every righteous person will receive eventually all to which the person is entitled and which he or she has not forfeited through any fault of his or her own” (Ensign, Oct. 1979, p. 5).

I promise you that if you are faithful and true, you will receive the great promise of the Savior—peace in this life and eternal life in the life to come.''

This link: LDS.org - Topic Definition - Marriage

has much information about marriage, what we believe about marriage. I posted few parts of some talks, and their links if you wish to research some more.

If I can help you further, let me know!

Have a wonderful day!

[Vanhin]

Heavenguard,

Allow me a chance to share my understanding of this. I really appreciate the scriptures you included in the OP, because they really do add significance to this discussion. I want to also note, that I appreciate the way you have discussed these things with us here at lds.net. You have been respectful, and actually quite reasonable.

In Romans 7:1-4 Paul uses the illustration of marriage under the law of Moses to show how those who were under the "law" before, should now adopt the Gospel of Jesus Christ, since the law had become dead. Under the law of Moses, a woman was free to marry another after the death of her husband, and so at the death of the law, because of Christ, the Jews were free to embrace the gospel of Jesus Christ.

"Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God." (Romans 7:4)

Paul was a great teacher. His message also contained the hidden pearl that the new covenant with Christ, would endure death and last forever. The same would be true with marriage under the new covenant, as opposed to the old law, which ended at death. In Christ we shall find life!

As a side note. The priesthood of Aaron, or the Levitical priesthood, did not have the sealing power, so marriage under the law of Moses would end at death anyway. However, Christ restored the higher priesthood of Melchizedek, which is Christ's priesthood, which includes the sealing power, when authorized by those who hold the "keys" of this priesthood.

So onto the seven brothers. The Sadducees did not believe in a resurrection, and were trying to trip Christ up concerning the resurrection. In the process they spoke with poor knowledge of marriage, the resurrection, and the power of God.

I disagree with Dr. Talmage's statements concerning the first husband. There is no indication in the record that even the first husband was "sealed" to his wife, and it would have been very unlikely that the Sadducees who asked the question, would have implied anything like that to begin with. They were referring to marriage as they knew it, and when they spoke of marriage, they meant marriage under the law of Moses, which would end at death. That was how they intended to trip up Christ. Had Christ said, "Well it would be the first husband of course...", the Sadducees would have said, "Aha! He is speaking against the law of Moses!"

But Christ knew the intetions of their heart. I love his reply:

"Jesus answered and said unto them, Ye do err, not knowing the scriptures, nor the power of God. For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven." (Matt. 22:29-30)

They did not know the power of God! The sealing power that is, and none of the seven brothers, or the wife were sealed, and if they didn't get it taken care of before the resurrection, then it would be too late, since "they neither marry, nor are given in marriage" at the resurrection. Notice the wording. Christ is talking about the act of being married, not being in marriage. That ended for them at death, because they were married for time only.

Just like the last scripture you quoted in the OP, Christ knew they would be "angels of God in heaven". Notice the wording in verse 16:

"Therefore, when they are out of the world they neither marry nor are given in marriage; but are appointed angels in heaven, which angels are ministering servants, to minister for those who are worthy of a far more, and an exceeding, and an eternal weight of glory." (D&C 132:16)

The doctrine is the same as in the Bible, of course, since the author is the same. :)

Sincerely,

Vanhin

[Hemidakota]

After giving the idea of celestial marriage a pondering, some points of observations came to mind.

As I understand it (please correct any mistakes), when a man and woman are married in the temple, they are bound or sealed to/with each other in this and the eternal life.

It would seem to me that Paul and Jesus suggest that marriage is a sacrament meant only for this Earthly lifetime.

I read also this article (LDS.org - Ensign Article - First Presidency Message Temples and Eternal Marriage) that says :

Also, concerning angels:

In Matthew, Jesus says "people" will neither marry or be given in marriage, and "they" will be like angels. I see no distinction made by Jesus to separate the first husband and the wife from the remaining six brothers (as the author of the article did), and so would see Jesus' "they" and "people" to encompass them. The meaning I would extract from this is that all people, married or not, become like angels. But according to the D&C, the unmarried (or not married in the temple) stay as singular angels while their sealed counterparts are exalted to godship.

Er, no question really. Just a presentation of the points noted in my head, so that you may present those in yours.

From what is already given has answers, if you could spend one moment in time to view across the veil, you find both Adam and Eve sitting on their respective thrones - side-by-side - as GODs; together forever. [Joseph Smith journal entry] For me, this is my desire for my wife and I in being together forever as companions.

Would you want the same?

[Heavenguard]

Hey guys,

I just wanted to say thanks for all your helpful and info-filled posts (Wait, let me go back and "Thank" each post later...)

Personally, I am still of the mind that marriage is an Earthly ordinance (simply because my set of beliefs excludes its purpose), however I can now better understand where you're all coming from. I do have to say I really appreciate how romantic the idea is, though, haha

If we (I) take the idea that the OT marriages were not sealed relationships (as they could not possibly have been sealed or made in the name of Jesus yet), when is it considered that sealings began to come into play? When Jesus gave Peter authority?

I would take the authority that Jesus bestowed upon Peter to be not marriage-specific, but rather the binding and loosing Jesus speaks of to be a demonstration/explanation of the authority. We see marriage as an example of 'binding', but what of loosing? Do you/we consider that Peter (and therefore the proper church authorities) could/would undo a sealed relationship (likely sealed by another)? Or otherwise loosen something that has already been bound in this world and in heaven, whether by God or by man?

Lastly, I think we are in agreement that Jesus was not married in his Earthly lifetime (despite what some popular non-fiction books claim), right? But the thought of Jesus not being exalted brings a "No way", especially being that he has partnership in the Godship. So would it be fair to say that Jesus has a sealed/celestial relationship with his wife from a time before we could even know about?

Thanks for discussing, guys :)

[Hemidakota]

[Not church doctrine]

I do believe He was sealed or married despite what people think or say. Is this important to know for our own salvation. No!

If not, how can He obtain the fullness of the Celestial Kingdom? You simply can't.....eternal marriage is last earthly covenant we make. Others will come across the veil.

[Vanhin]

Hey guys,

I just wanted to say thanks for all your helpful and info-filled posts (Wait, let me go back and "Thank" each post later...)

Personally, I am still of the mind that marriage is an Earthly ordinance (simply because my set of beliefs excludes its purpose), however I can now better understand where you're all coming from. I do have to say I really appreciate how romantic the idea is, though, haha

For my part, you are welcome. And thanks for approaching our doctrine with respect. We so appreciate that. :)

Well, you are correct, marriage is both ordained of God, and an earthly ordinance. That's exactly why Jesus said all seven brothers and the wife would be angels and separate. Unless they are bound by the sealing power of the priesthood, they would remain single and ministering angles.

Celestial marriage, is beyond romantic! :) It's both wonderful, and necessary, if we are to reach our highest potential. As Paul taught to the Corinthians, " Nevertheless neither is the man without the woman, neither the woman without the man, in the Lord." (1 Cor. 11:11). So we too, as disciples of Jesus Christ, teach to the world.

This wonderful truth was restored to Joseph Smith, and represents the order of the highest degree of glory in the celestial kingdom. We really, really (I mean really), do believe that the spirits of mankind are the literal offspring of Heavenly Parents (LDS.org - Family Chapter Detail - The Family: A Proclamation to the World). It is eternal life for the spirit sons and daughters of God, to truly know Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ (John 17:3), that's what this docrine is all about.

If we (I) take the idea that the OT marriages were not sealed relationships (as they could not possibly have been sealed or made in the name of Jesus yet), when is it considered that sealings began to come into play? When Jesus gave Peter authority?

Well, not exactly. :) Only marriages performed without the sealing power. The OT is not represented by the law of Moses alone. Through modern revelation we know that the fullness of the Gospel of Jesus Christ was had among the prophets, such as Adam, Noah, Abraham, and Moses (and all the holy prophets).

The covenants Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob made with the Lord included the new and everlasting covenant of marriage (See D&C 132).

The sealing power was restored by Jesus Christ to Peter and the apostles.

I would take the authority that Jesus bestowed upon Peter to be not marriage-specific, but rather the binding and loosing Jesus speaks of to be a demonstration/explanation of the authority. We see marriage as an example of 'binding', but what of loosing? Do you/we consider that Peter (and therefore the proper church authorities) could/would undo a sealed relationship (likely sealed by another)? Or otherwise loosen something that has already been bound in this world and in heaven, whether by God or by man?

You are correct. It's not marriage-specific. And you are also correct about "loosing"! You are surely an attentive stundent of these things Heavenguard. :) In the Church today, only the First Presidency (equivelant to Peter, James and John of old), can authorize the "loosing" of things bound by this priesthood authority, including marriage sealings.

Lastly, I think we are in agreement that Jesus was not married in his Earthly lifetime (despite what some popular non-fiction books claim), right? But the thought of Jesus not being exalted brings a "No way", especially being that he has partnership in the Godship. So would it be fair to say that Jesus has a sealed/celestial relationship with his wife from a time before we could even know about?

Thanks for discussing, guys :)

Well, we do not have any record of Christ's celestial marriage, but we can certainly be sure that if the pesky Mormons are right about eternal marriage being a requirement for exaltation, that Christ is married also. :) It's just a logical conclusion and not official doctrine, as Hemi pointed out.

Also, we do know that sealing to one's spouse, is the last saving ordinance of mortality, and must be performed in mortality. So, that would narrow down the window of opportunity for any marriage of the Savior to either during his mortal ministry or during the time between his death and resurrection, when it would have been done by proxy in a Temple. It is more likely, in my opinion, that it happened in mortality.

Sincerely,

Vanhin

[fish4kitty]

I for one do not believe JC was married or sealed to any earthly woman. No need do to him being part of the GH. IMHO

[MrNirom]

I think everyone did a great job of explaining the details. I would like to sum it up if I may?

Here is the Key:

Sealed (bind)

SC=Sealing Canceled (loosed)

NS=Not Sealed.. only married until death.

AD=After Death

IBAW=If Both are Worthy

D=Divorced

A Sealed B AD-> A & B still married. (IBAW)

A Sealed B A dies. B marries C (NS) AD-> A & B still married IBAW

A marries B AD-> Neither are married nor will be given in marriage.

A Marries B A dies. B marries C (not sealed) AD-> None are married or Given

A Marries B A dies. B marries C (sealed) AD-> B & C still married IBAW

A Sealed B A dies. B marries C (gets SC from A and sealed to C) B&C Married IBAW A Given if W

A Sealed B A & B Divorce A Marries C B Marries D AD-> A & B still married IBAW

A Marries B Both die on the way to temple for sealing Proxy Sealing Done A & B married IBAW

A Marries B Both die but can't get to temple for good reason Proxy Sealing Done A&B married IBAW

A Marries B Both die but can't get to temple for not good reason. Proxy Sealing A&B married IBAW

IBAW is the Lord's determination. So we still do Proxy Sealings cause we don't know if they are worthy or not. If one partner is worthy and the other is not.. then the worthy one will be given in marriage.

How does this look to most of you? I am sure there are more senerios out there..

[sb42393]

Since this thread is about marriage..... As a NonMormon I was wondering what yalls thoughts on this passage are......

23.The same day came to him the Sadducees, which say that there is no resurrection, and asked him,

24.Saying, Master, Moses said, If a man die, having no children, his brother shall marry his wife, and raise up seed unto his brother.

25.Now there were with us seven brethren: and the first, when he had married a wife, deceased, and, having no issue, left his wife unto his brother:

26.Likewise the second also, and the third, unto the seventh.

27.And last of all the woman died also.

28.Therefore in the resurrection whose wife shall she be of the seven? for they all had her.

29.Jesus answered and said unto them, Ye do err, not knowing the scriptures, nor the power of God.

30.For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven.

31.But as touching the resurrection of the dead, have ye not read that which was spoken unto you by God, saying,

32.I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob? God is not the God of the dead, but of the living.

[Vanhin]

Since this thread is about marriage..... As a NonMormon I was wondering what yalls thoughts on this passage are......

23.The same day came to him the Sadducees, which say that there is no resurrection, and asked him,

24.Saying, Master, Moses said, If a man die, having no children, his brother shall marry his wife, and raise up seed unto his brother.

25.Now there were with us seven brethren: and the first, when he had married a wife, deceased, and, having no issue, left his wife unto his brother:

26.Likewise the second also, and the third, unto the seventh.

27.And last of all the woman died also.

28.Therefore in the resurrection whose wife shall she be of the seven? for they all had her.

29.Jesus answered and said unto them, Ye do err, not knowing the scriptures, nor the power of God.

30.For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven.

31.But as touching the resurrection of the dead, have ye not read that which was spoken unto you by God, saying,

32.I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob? God is not the God of the dead, but of the living.

That's what this whole thread has been about. I suggest you start at post one, and read all the way up to this post, and you will find your answer. I promise. It's only 2 pages at this point, so it shouldn't take you long.

Regards,

Vanhin