Hahahaha (call To The First Presidency)

[Spencer]

Originally posted by Breetai@Aug 3 2004, 12:48 PM

Jenda, I call Joseph Smith a false prophet because he taught things which were contrary to the Bible. I don't believe for a second that those angels that he saw were God or God's angels. He may have seem sort of beings, but they weren't of God.

"Hence, the doctrine of a plurality of Gods is as prominent in the Bible as any other doctrine. It is all over the face of the Bible . . . Paul says there are Gods many and Lords many . . . but to us there is but one God--that is pertaining to us; and he is in all and through all" (History of the Church, Vol. 6, page 474).

I don't care if this is not 'official doctrine' for anyone. It is only one example of many. Joseph Smith believed that there were gods above God and that is contrary to the Bible. Joseph Smith was a false prophet.

I pretty much agree with your last paragraph.

Careful with your tone and how you speak of Joseph Smith. If you really feel so against our doctrine and continue to be disrespectful towards us, I would invite you to find another board to chat on.

Thanks,

Spencer

[Jenda]

We can't discuss things if you are going to insist that I have to accept everything that Joseph Smith said as absolute gospel. I pointed out in my previous post that even the Old Testament prophets errored in their ways, yet you don't seem to want to hold them up to the same standard you insist on holding Joseph Smith up to. You seem to be insisting that prophets are not human with human problems, and that is pretty dangerous territory.

My view on prophets, in general, is that they are prophets when God is using them as prophets. And as long as they are humble and open to the leadings of the Holy Spirit, then God can use them for a very long time, but when they start letting their human weaknesses get in the way, then God ceases to use them for His purpose. But that does not negate the fact that God used them at a previous point in time to do, and reveal, His will.

I believe that early in Joseph Smith's life he let himself be open to the will of God and during that time the BoM was brought forth and the church was organized. A while later, when he started getting too full of himself, I believe that God ceased using him.

That is my belief in a nutshell.

[Guest]

I believe that early in Joseph Smith's life he let himself be open to the will of God and during that time the BoM was brought forth and the church was organized. A while later, when he started getting too full of himself, I believe that God ceased using him.I can see why you would say that. The theology of God in the BoM seems to be much different then that of the other two LDS doctrines. It certainly appears that Joseph Smith had changed his beliefs about God.

No, I do not say that you must accept everything that Smith said as absolute gospel. In fact, I'd say that it is best to just accept nothing that he said as absolute gospel. I just don't believe that Smith was really inspired by God or that he saw God. I don't believe that the BoM was inspired either.

Too much real stuff has come from (or through) him for it to be coincidence.

Like what?

Spencer, it's true that I disagree with your doctrine, but I do enjoy talking with you guys. I'm not sure how you can say that I have been disrespectful towards you guys here.

I don't say anything about Joseph Smith that I do not see as being true. If I believe that he was un-Biblical in teaching that there are many gods above God the Father, then I should say so when I am talking about him and be able to explain why I have come to such conclusions. I do this so that people can see where I believe that he is contradicting the Bible. If someone believes that I am incorrect, then I invite them to tell me why they believe that I am wrong. It is the same if I am talking about Moses or David. If I am going to only tell someone about their good points, I would be doing that person a disservice. Moses and David did many good things, but they were also both murderers and David was an adulterous man. The difference, as far as I can tell, is that they were both repentant of their sins. I fail to see how Joseph Smith was ever repentant after disobeying Genesis 2:24, 1 Corinthians 7:2 and Isaiah 45:18.

Genesis 2:24

Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.

I see this as implying that polygamy is wrong. Joseph Smith had more than one wife, therefore he disobeyed this verse.

1 Corinthians 7:2

Nevertheless, to avoid fornication, let every man have his own wife, and let every woman have her own husband.

Same as above.

Isaiah 45:18b

I AM the Lord; and there is none else.

It seems to me that Smith taught that there are other gods which are higher in authority to our Heavenly Father. If that is so, then he taught differently then Isaiah did.

[Jenda]

Breetai, I would like for you to ignore the later period of our early church history (that would be from about 1840 on), and point out to me what Joseph Smith taught that is wrong. Point out to me what is taught in the BoM that goes against the Bible.

Please. I will wait (semi-)patiently.

[Guest]

That's a fair mission Jenda. FYI, I'm out of town for a week to go to a wedding on the other end of the country. So if I take a while to respond, then that's why. I might even start a new thread on this here or at the other board.

[Jenda]

Great. Thanks. :)

[Ray]

Okay, I have a confession to make.

I once thought it was a problem when someone other than a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints testified that the Book of Mormon was inspired by God, because I thought it only muddied up the waters, preventing people from discovering that the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is the ONLY organization of people with the authority to act for God, but I now see that the best thing that can happen is for everyone to discover and declare the TRUTH.

Do y'all remember that Southern Baptist minister who once proclaimed that the Book of Mormon is scripture? I do, and I still remember his name. Lynn, I owe you an apology. You can proclaim that the Book of Mormon is scripture as long and as loud as you want to, and I hope you are continuing to do all that you can to share the TRUTH.

It doesn’t matter if someone is Mormon or Methodist, as long as everyone knows that Jesus is the Christ, the only person who can redeem us from our sins.

It doesn’t’ matter if someone is LDS or Lutheran, as long as everyone knows that Faith and Repentance are key elements or principles of the gospel, and that Christ is the one will judge us all.

It doesn’t matter if someone is a member of my Church or the Catholic church, as long as everyone knows that men can be inspired by God and that the priesthood is essential before someone can rightfully act in the name of God.

I still testify that the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is the only organization of people on Earth with that authority, but as long as we all know that priesthood is essential, we will all discover, either sooner or later, who has and who doesn’t have that authority.

Now I’m going to sit back and enjoy watching Jenda declare that the Book of Mormon is true, knowing that she is not a member of the church I associate with.

The important thing is to know and share the truth, while searching to see where we can find all of it.

[Guest]

Ray, that was an awesome post. :)

[Mark]

HI Jenda,

Actually I believe it is both the reorg. and the Utah church, but I'm coming from the angle that you give a proclaimed prophet who you believe is not a prophet a free ride. I believe I understand why, but never the less it amazes me.

My question to you is based on the reply that you gave to me that we all believe in the same God, when in fact it is very clear that we don't and Paul warned of others teaching ANOTHER Jesus and ANOTHER gospel, so my question stands..."Who are these other Jesus's that Paul is warning against and what is the other gospel that he warns against? Remember these people are righteous looking on the outside that Paul warns us against, they claim to be apostles and prophets, who are these people and how can we test those who claim to have such authority?

Mark

John 1:12

[Jenda]

Originally posted by Mark@Aug 3 2004, 07:16 PM

HI Jenda,

Actually I believe it is both the reorg. and the Utah church, but I'm coming from the angle that you give a proclaimed prophet who you believe is not a prophet a free ride. I believe I understand why, but never the less it amazes me.

My question to you is based on the reply that you gave to me that we all believe in the same God, when in fact it is very clear that we don't and Paul warned of others teaching ANOTHER Jesus and ANOTHER gospel, so my question stands..."Who are these other Jesus's that Paul is warning against and what is the other gospel that he warns against? Remember these people are righteous looking on the outside that Paul warns us against, they claim to be apostles and prophets, who are these people and how can we test those who claim to have such authority?

Mark

John 1:12

I believe that Paul was talking about another (physical) person who could or might claim to be the Son of God, the Savior of the world. That person would not be the Son of God and would therefore have a different gospel. That person would steal salvation from those who would otherwise put their faith in Christ.

The Book of Mormon preaches Jesus the Christ. He is mentioned on virtually every page of the book. When Joseph Smith organized the church in 1830, he preached Jesus the Christ (not another Jesus) and did not represent himself as a savior. It was, again, not till many years later that he started investigating other possibilities surrounding the godhead, and is one of the main reasons I believe that JS,Jr., became a fallen prophet.

[Mark]

Originally posted by Jenda+Aug 3 2004, 07:54 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Jenda @ Aug 3 2004, 07:54 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--Mark@Aug 3 2004, 07:16 PM

HI Jenda,

Actually I believe it is both the reorg. and the Utah church, but I'm coming from the angle that you give a proclaimed prophet who you believe is not a prophet a free ride. I believe I understand why, but never the less it amazes me.

My question to you is based on the reply that you gave to me that we all believe in the same God, when in fact it is very clear that we don't and Paul warned of others teaching ANOTHER Jesus and ANOTHER gospel, so my question stands..."Who are these other Jesus's that Paul is warning against and what is the other gospel that he warns against? Remember these people are righteous looking on the outside that Paul warns us against, they claim to be apostles and prophets, who are these people and how can we test those who claim to have such authority?

Mark

John 1:12

I believe that Paul was talking about another (physical) person who could or might claim to be the Son of God, the Savior of the world. That person would not be the Son of God and would therefore have a different gospel. That person would steal salvation from those who would otherwise put their faith in Christ.

The Book of Mormon preaches Jesus the Christ. He is mentioned on virtually every page of the book. When Joseph Smith organized the church in 1830, he preached Jesus the Christ (not another Jesus) and did not represent himself as a savior. It was, again, not till many years later that he started investigating other possibilities surrounding the godhead, and is one of the main reasons I believe that JS,Jr., became a fallen prophet.

Hi Jenda,

The context of the verses in 2 Cor. clearly state that there will be false apostles, and that they will be righteous to look upon, its always in the plural. Give me a example of how one would preach another Jesus and be righteous at the same time, at least to those they are deceiving? Its clear that they will preach Jesus, but that it would be a Jesus that can't save, a false ideology that would accompany this fake Jesus that would lead people astray.

I believe that you answered your own answer when you said " It was, again, not till many years later that he started investigating other possibilities surrounding the godhead, and is one of the main reasons I believe that JS,Jr., became a fallen prophet." Joseph was preaching another jesus and another gospel while all the time portraying himself and those who were in his leadership as righteous apostles.

What is the fruit of Joseph Smiths teachings, men can become God, Jesus was the brother of Lucifer, a council of Gods said "let there be light', masonry ceremonies ie. secret handshakes, death threats to those who blab the secrets, re-wrote the bible and put his own name in it, plural marrage? The legacy of JS is mass confusion. There are millions of men that believe that they can become by very nature God because of his teachings and his teachings alone. Men and women go to temples and actually believe thay are doing thing for others so they can be with God (read John 1:13).

Don't you realize the damage this man has done to Christianity, he has taken Gods salvation away from God and gave it to the authority of man and has exalted men into the very nature of God, just as satan did to Eve see verse 3 of 2 Cor. 11. he has taken the simple salvation of God, by Grace and evolved it into the mess that it is today.

This is a very serious issue and a very serious charge, why would you want to take a chance on this man, wouldn't it be wiser to trust in God , than to place your fate in the teachings of a man that you admit is a fallen teacher?

About every minute a person becomes a member of the LDS church, all the while being taught that they can become by very nature God, or wife to him. What are you going to do about Jenda? Just say we all believe in the same thing and its OK? You are much brighter than that, be honest with yourself and test JS, he is either the real thing or he is a Cor. 2 apostle, he fits that mold perfectly.

One thing bad about posting messages, and not speaking directly is that we can't read each other, I want you to know I'm not a bully like you've called me in the past, I not here to win a argument, I'm here to get to the truth, and believe that truth. I want you to do me a favor, pray for me this week that I would know that truth and I will pray for you to know what is true, pray that we can test what we believe with the Word and be strong enough to rejest anything that is not true, fair?

Mark

John 1:12

[Jenda]

Mark, I pray everyday, many times a day, that God will lead me to His truth. I do not worship Joseph Smith. I know he made errors, what I consider gross errors, but I still don't believe that he was that person his entire life. I explained before what I believe, and I believe it to be true. I believe that God performed a marvelous work through Joseph Smith. But, in the face of accomplishing something great like he did (through the gift of the Holy Spirit), un-Godly attributes take over, and God is forgotten.

Yes, I think Joseph Smith fell, but prior to that, a marvelous work and a wonder was performed.

Like I said earlier, I pray continuously that God will lead me to the truth and His Spirit witnesses to me that the restoration is the truth. You just have to know which restoration to look at. And please, do keep me in your prayers, too.

[Faerie]

to me...i don't really care much about church history...i care about the church today...i've prayed and my husband has prayed constantly and continuously to lead us to the correct church for US..and we both feel that is the LDS church...

I feel peace and comfort in the temple, in sacrement meeting, etc...the rest eh...I'll know the truth in the eternities...until then I'm happy being LDS and I believe my testimony to be very strong...

I don't worship Joseph Smith..in fact, I've seen more emphasis on Joseph Smith on THIS board than I have my entire life in church...I worship Christ, the son of God the Eternal Father...if you have a problem with that, then it's your problem..not mine...

just my 2 cents...

[Jenda]

Great post, Faerie! :)

[Guest bat]

Originally posted by Faerie@Aug 4 2004, 08:19 PM

to me...i don't really care much about church history...i care about the church today...i've prayed and my husband has prayed constantly and continuously to lead us to the correct church for US..and we both feel that is the LDS church...

I feel peace and comfort in the temple, in sacrement meeting, etc...the rest eh...I'll know the truth in the eternities...until then I'm happy being LDS and I believe my testimony to be very strong...

I don't worship Joseph Smith..in fact, I've seen more emphasis on Joseph Smith on THIS board than I have my entire life in church...I worship Christ, the son of God the Eternal Father...if you have a problem with that, then it's your problem..not mine...

just my 2 cents...

Me too! I trust my feelings and ignore the facts and history too. It makes me happy. Well, that and Prozac. :)

[Mark]

HI Jenda,

See what I mean, read Faerie's post, she has bought into everything you claim JS went astray on, I never said you worship JS, I tried to convey that people buy into his false teachings. This is the bottom line JS has led millions of people, by his false teachings on a path that is in direct conflict with what the Bible teaches, he has poluted every essentual docrine and you are condoning it when you say things like "great post", this person mostlikely believes that male members of the church will become Gods, and she has potential to become a Godess. Just Think about it Jenda, and be a Brean.

Who has more truth in you're opinion, myself or Faerie? and why? Just curious.

Mark

John 1:12

[Jenda]

Originally posted by Mark@Aug 5 2004, 04:52 AM

HI Jenda,

See what I mean, read Faerie's post, she has bought into everything you claim JS went astray on, I never said you worship JS, I tried to convey that people buy into his false teachings. This is the bottom line JS has led millions of people, by his false teachings on a path that is in direct conflict with what the Bible teaches, he has poluted every essentual docrine and you are condoning it when you say things like "great post", this person mostlikely believes that male members of the church will become Gods, and she has potential to become a Godess.  Just Think about it Jenda, and be a Brean.

Who has more truth in you're opinion, myself or Faerie? and why? Just curious.

Mark

John 1:12

I don't see Faerie saying the same thing I did at all. She believes in the LDS church the way it is today which came about in the Nauvoo period, so obviously she doesn't buy into the concept that Joseph Smith was a fallen prophet.

I said "Great post!" because she doesn't live in the past.

It escapes me, Mark, just what you want me to do. I don't believe in the changes that Joseph made to the church in the later years of his life. But unless you think I have a time machine and can go back and convince him to leave the church in it's pristine condition that God restored it to, then I have little chance of accomplishing much against the huge conglomerate that is the LDS church. I quietly state my beliefs, and if someone wants to converse about that, then I am all for it, but this is an LDS website and I can't come here loudly proclaiming that I am right without the possibility of getting banned.

[Faerie]

Originally posted by Mark@Aug 5 2004, 07:52 AM

HI Jenda,

See what I mean, read Faerie's post, she has bought into everything you claim JS went astray on, I never said you worship JS, I tried to convey that people buy into his false teachings. This is the bottom line JS has led millions of people, by his false teachings on a path that is in direct conflict with what the Bible teaches, he has poluted every essentual docrine and you are condoning it when you say things like "great post", this person mostlikely believes that male members of the church will become Gods, and she has potential to become a Godess.  Just Think about it Jenda, and be a Brean.

Who has more truth in you're opinion, myself or Faerie? and why? Just curious.

Mark

John 1:12

I was apostate for 3 years while I married my husband. I "fell for" all the "mormons are bad" diatribes I found on various "mormons are bad" websites..I studied up on church history, I "fell for" the crap that people like bat and matt (ha ha that rhymes) are trying to instill on this thread...

people hold joseph smith and brigham young up under this bright light and point out all their errors and mistakes and proclaim that they were false prophets due to human falacy...to ME: early church history is interesting and sordid at points...but it's early..and it's history...the church has evolved tremendously since then...we've learned from the mistakes of the past...I believe there are too many wonderful things about the Gospel and about this church to let early mistakes take me away...I know that God didn't come down and personaly tend to every little detail...men were left to figure out a lot on their own...mistakes were made yes, but the church grew stronger through those mistakes...

I can see and understand the idea that Joseph fell away at the end, and I don't see that detracting from the Gospel today...Even primary children are taught that Joseph screwed up a lot...did he become selfish w/ regards to polygamy? Probably...was he punished for this? maybe...do I care, does this affect MY personal worthiness? no...was brigham young an idiot at times? yes...were his views regarding race and sex unique? no...do i care, does this affect MY personal worthiness? no...those men made mistakes...the mistakes have been rectified over the years...I personally don't understand polygamy..I do understand that polygamy is not a "mormon thing"..that it's been around since the beginning of time...this is an issue that I choose not to worry about, as it doesn't affect my life...I don't believe polygamy will EVER be an issue on this earth again...not while men are still leading the church and the world..I don't have a perfect understanding of it, nor am I expected to...

I DO know that I have personally been on "the other side" and I have tried very hard to deny the church...I was actually very disappointed when missionaries showed up at my door and my non-denominational "sure i believe in Jesus" husband let them in...but I decided to have an open mind and an open heart and I received a testimony for the first time in my life... I was very leary of going to the temple based on the history and the details revealed on various websites I had read...I did not go into the temple as a blind believer...I did not go into the temple with the attitude of "everyone else does it, so here i go"...I didn't go into the temple with the attitude of "my leaders say i have to go, so i'm going"...I went into the temple with a very open heart, and a very calm mind...and I received a personal revelation that what I was doing was correct for ME...I haven't held a temple recommend since December when mine expired..mainly due to health reasons and personal worthiness issues..but I look forward to going again soon...as I feel peace of mind and heart..and I don't care how much you make fun of me bat, I don't care how "false" you claim the teachings to be Matt, you will not take away that feeling from me...I'm not a sheep, I'm not a Utah mormon, I've been well exposed to outside religions and beliefs...

I believe what I believe..you can mock it all you want..you can try to degrade my intelligence and claim I'm on "Prozac"..but you WILL NOT take my testimony away from me..so stop trying to...I'm not trying to change your beliefs or outlooks on religion, stop trying to change mine...

and Matt...I don't appreciate your last post...you're not being respectful of my beliefs here...insulting me by claiming I've "bought into a lie" and then asking if my post holds any truth..that's fine for websites like exmormon.org or that stupid christian forums website..but not here...please stop...

[Lindy]

Faerie~

I can see and understand the idea that Joseph fell away at the end, and I don't see that detracting from the Gospel today...Even primary children are taught that Joseph screwed up a lot...did he become selfish w/ regards to polygamy? Probably...was he punished for this? maybe...do I care, does this affect MY personal worthiness? no...was brigham young an idiot at times? yes...were his views regarding race and sex unique? no...do i care, does this affect MY personal worthiness? no...

Good statement Faerie....I am impressed because it's how I feel myself.....

the crap that people throw around and the insults that have been flung at me because of what I believe DON"T MATTER! It doesn't affect my personal worthiness (good choice of words!) and I don't care what they happen to think.

On another note.....You have some good posts and I like to read them...but don't let the views and the opinions of others make you crazy....you are pregnant and your chemistry levels are off whack because of it (as is normal). The stress you are displaying is not good for you or the baby....chill out.

my 2 cents...and 4 children later.....

[Ray]

:)

[Faerie]

but don't let the views and the opinions of others make you crazy....

i can see this as far as bat is concerned..but i personally do not like being singled out in the way of matt's post..i don't do that to other people...i don't tear down their beliefs personally and i expect the same, pregnant or not :)

and trust me, i'm the least stressed person you'll find!

[Ray]

Originally posted by Mark@ Aug 3 2004, 07:16 PM

Who are these other Jesus's that Paul is warning against and what is the other gospel that he warns against? Remember these people are righteous looking on the outside that Paul warns us against, they claim to be apostles and prophets, who are these people and how can we test those who claim to have such authority?

These people are false teachers, who teach a doctrine opposed to the truth and fullness of the gospel.

The other gospel they teach is a gospel that will not bring them a fullness of salvation and exaltation, which is available to all who truly love God and serve Him with all that they have and all that they are.

We can test what people say by appealing to God for answers, instead of relying upon what people say and want us to believe. God gives us answers in the scriptures and through personal revelation by the power of the Holy Ghost.

The context of the verses in 2 Corinthians clearly state that there will be false apostles, and that they will be righteous to look upon, its always in the plural. Give me a example of how one would preach another Jesus and be righteous at the same time, at least to those they are deceiving? Its clear that they will preach Jesus, but that it would be a Jesus that can't save, a false ideology that would accompany this fake Jesus that would lead people astray.

A person would preach another gospel by preaching something that is not the gospel truth or not a fullness of the gospel truth, just as Lucifer preached half-truths to Adam and Eve in the garden of Eden, and as any other person does when they do not teach the truth or nothing but the truth. Other examples are in all the churches or religions preaching Jesus, with each and every one of them teaching something contrary to what other churches teach.

Mark,

YOU say that Joseph Smith taught things that are not true and not in agreement with the teachings in the Bible, but the same thing could also be said of YOU.

YOU say that the teachings of Joseph Smith will not bring man to a fullness of salvation and exaltation, but the same thing could also be said of the things YOU say.

YOU say that Joseph Smith Jr. was a false prophet, while I say he was a true prophet of God, and the only way we can know the truth is through an appeal to God for our answers.

Btw, if you believe the “Man can become God” doctrine is opposed to the teachings in the Bible, I recommend that you seriously study the Bible, because the Bible alone can teach you that this is possible and expected.

To get started I recommend using the LDS Topical Guide, because it references scriptures in ALL of the standard works, but you can limit your search to scriptures in the Bible alone if you really want to.

MAN, POTENTIAL TO BECOME LIKE HEAVENLY FATHER

I particularly recommend studying:

Psalm 82:6 - ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High.

Matthew 5:48 - Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

Acts 17:29 - we are the offspring of God…

Romans 8:17 - heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ…

2 Corinthians 3:8 – changed into the same image from glory to glory…

Ephesians 4:13 – till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ…

Revelation 3:21 – to sit with me [Jesus] in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.

I also recommend that you read and re-read these scriptures until you see that they mean the same thing that we [LDS] mean when we quote from other scriptures outside the Bible.

[Mark]

Hi Ray,

You bailed on our last discussion when you got stuck in a mistruth, if I discuss this topic with you will you finish the discussion? We can start with Psalms 82:6 if you like?

I'll use the topical guide if you like and we can test it to see if its true, but please let me know if your honest enough to discuss the questions and proof texts?

Mark

John 1:12

[Ray]

Originally posted by Mark@ Aug 5 2004, 04:03 PM

Hi Ray,

You bailed on our last discussion when you got stuck in a mistruth, if I discuss this topic with you will you finish the discussion? We can start with Psalms 82:6 if you like?

I'll use the topical guide if you like and we can test it to see if its true, but please let me know if your honest enough to discuss the questions and proof texts?

Again you misrepresent me. I did not get stuck in a mistruth. The truth is there before your face in D&C 93 and you simply cannot see it. Is this really the best response you can give to those scriptures I cited? Do you really expect me to enter into a discussion with you when you respond to me lke this? Why should a discussion even be necessary? I referenced the scriptures for you and they are self-evident, teaching exactly what they teach and in agreement with what we [LDS] teach of these things.

It would have been one thing for you to say that you did not understand or could not see what I was talking about, but to say that I "got stuck in a mistruth" was a judgment call and it is obviously false, because I know what the scriptures teach and I can clearly see it.

In other words, telling me that I cannot see what I see won’t work, and it's kinda silly.

[Jenda]

Mark, I understand your point perfectly. I did right from the beginning because it was the same point you argued last time. I even understand your concern for another's salvation. My question is, what do you want me to do about it? Deny my testimony? Sorry, I won't do that. Send an email to the president of the LDS church and try to convince him that Joseph Smith was wrong when he started changing things in Nauvoo? Think that would do any good?

I don't need Joseph Smith any more than you need Paul, or James, or Peter. I believe that he brought forth inspired revelation from the Lord that helps us grow in our relationship with God. Period.