How about fornication and adultery?

[justamere10]

Wasn't something written somewhere sort of like "teach only REPENTANCE to this generation"?

[prospectmom]

repentance comes with conviction you cant have conviction with out understanding you can't have understanding without being taught

[Traveler]

I think it was Alma that said something like Wickedness never was happiness - but it was sure fun while it lasted. :)

Sometimes we think of the worst sins as those that do the most harm to others. I think this shows a misunderstanding of sin. We should think of the worse sins as the one's that are the hardest to get rid of - the really sticky ones that if you just touch them a tiny little bit they stick to you like craze and everything else that you try to pry them off with.

One last thing - there is a story of Moses coming down from the mountain and he told everybody that he had good news and bad news. The good news is that he and talked G-d down to just 10 commandments. The bad news is that adultery was still one of them.

The Traveler

[Guest HEthePrimate]

"How about fornication and adultery?"

Are you asking me if I want to? Sorry--not interested. (Just kidding, I know that's not what you meant!)

I think the Lord is concerned about fornication and adultery less because of how offensive He Himself finds them, and more because of how they hurt us, our loved ones, and our relationships. With that in mind, I prefer not to think of it in terms of Judgement Day or "sifting." Rather, I'm more interested in helping people understand how they are hurting themselves, their loved ones, and their relationships. If they continue doing such things, they will continue suffering the consequences, not because of an external punishment imposed by a wrathful God, but because that's just what happens when you do those things. But if they change their ways (repent), they can enjoy happier lives, both mortal and postmortal.

HE, the Primate

[WANDERER]

Justamere...repentance is nothing without loving God and feeling God's love.

"teach only REPENTANCE to this generation" ...well teach what repentance is.... to repent only because something is within the commandments is not true repentance. Something about having the law but not love...love is the fulfilling of the law. When you understand that fornication and adultery and the consequences for yourself and others and how detrimental it is, you will keep His commandments. This is the same for those who are not Christian and for those who are Christians but are sinning.

Teach repentance, but not separately from law. To teach that you are going to hell if you don't live chastely leads to the misunderstanding that if you do live chastely without committing fornication or adultery you are going to heaven. Fear of hell doesn't make you a follower of Christ...though it might inspire you to follow the commandments...and you don't need to be a Christian in order to do that.

I would think that what this generation most needs is repentance...and understanding that they can have it. Sadly, many feel the weight of failure, beyond repentance. They are overwhelmed by depression and a hopelessness about life and the future. And this lie shackles them. Wouldn't it be better to let the truth set them free? Just my opinion.

[prospectmom]

When approached by missionaries nonmembers aren't asked , Do you know Adultry and Fornication are great sins keeping us from being with our Heavenly Father??? no......

They are taught about Joseph Smith .... the first vision.... the Book of Mormon...... prayer...... repentence.......... baptism etc......... They are taught with the love of Christ

[PapilioMemnon]

Justamere10,

I think I understand what you want to convey, abiding by a terrestrial law, and yes, the law of chastity is extremely important to obey in all aspects of it, but we don't go around preaching the law of chastity before we preach the gospel of Christ beginning with faith, repentance, God, Jesus Christ,...

People need to want to learn those things, and as they learn, and especially study the scriptures, the word of God, that has power to change feelings, behaviors, attitudes, dispositions, spiritual ills, etc... until they study those things for themselves and have faith and the Holy Ghost can testify and give them a witness of those trues, preaching "fear" will not necessarily bring them to act upon things they don't know, the basics of the gospel.

Alma did preach, better yet, exhorted them, the people of Zarahemla & Ammonihah, and many were brought to "fear" as they realized they were taught, and were not living those things, but the difference is... they were members of the church, and many were slacking, some were dissenters/apostates... They had been taught... but had chosen to do something else. The GA's have been exhorting members in several ways during conference talks... and teaching again and again basic principles. What are they trying to say to us? How are we doing with those things that are repetitive? One if just establishing the words of another, on, and on... Why? Who is the audience they are trying to reach is this case? The members of the church, not non-members! We chose & made covenants, they did not; we need to make sure we are doing what we covenant to do, and keep the laws that will help us achieve the highest degree of glory if this is our ultimate goal.

Approaching nonmembers, I believe we need to approach and preach the basics (as the Missionaries have been taught to do, and they do a wonderful job at it), until we get the law of chastity that is also part of the basics, but not before faith & repentance.

Tithing is also a law that is required for the Millenium times... but we don't begin with tithing... but with faith & repentance.

Edited July 11, 2008 by PapilioMemnon

[FayetteIA]

I do not think this subject needs clarification. Such behaviors when brought before a leader require a church court. That in itself shoul tell us the seriousness of the sin(s) Can one repent..of course. That is an individual choice.

Joni

[prospectmom]

I think you missed to first posts fin its about aproaching non-members not members... read the whole thread you will understand....

[justamere10]

When approached by missionaries nonmembers aren't asked , Do you know Adultry and Fornication are great sins keeping us from being with our Heavenly Father??? no......

They are taught about Joseph Smith .... the first vision.... the Book of Mormon...... prayer...... repentence.......... baptism etc......... They are taught with the love of Christ

Yes, that's what LDS missionaries do. I think you're missing the distinction I'm trying to make between LDS Cyber Missionaries whose focus is on Celestial, and Cyber Missionaries of other denominations who too can help prepare people for the Millennium, because the Millennium is a Terrestrial state.

I guess I'm just not good at communicating that.

[prospectmom]

Hey I still do not get what your tryng to say........... your focus seems anything but Christlike for any religion

[justamere10]

Hey I still do not get what your tryng to say........... your focus seems anything but Christlike for any religion

Ok, I give up with you. If you would take the time to read a bit on my site you would know that it is entirely Christlike.

Here's my suggestion for a possible ecumenical approach to cyber missionary work at the Terrestrial level:

"We could all be part-time CYBER MISSIONARIES, independently on our own initiative crying repentance all over CyberSpace, and, without putting down the beliefs of others, valiantly teaching Jesus risen, His Atonement for us, and lifestyle principles from Matthew Chapter 5."

.

Edited July 13, 2008 by VisionOfLehi

[prospectmom]

Is it your opinion that fornication and adultery are sins serious enough that if unrepented of they will sift the sinner to the Lord's left hand and make tares those who would otherwise be found among the sheep at His glorious second coming?

If you think so, what can Christians of all denominations do to warn sexual sinners about the seriousness of what they are doing, and the urgent need to repent?

This is what I have based all my posts on...... is this not what you said???????????

Honestly just trying to understand what and why you would post it

[justamere10]

Is it your opinion that fornication and adultery are sins serious enough that if unrepented of they will sift the sinner to the Lord's left hand and make tares those who would otherwise be found among the sheep at His glorious second coming?

If you think so, what can Christians of all denominations do to warn sexual sinners about the seriousness of what they are doing, and the urgent need to repent?

This is what I have based all my posts on...... is this not what you said???????????

Honestly just trying to understand what and why you would post it

Perhaps I have too many threads happening at the same time. But you would understand if you read at my site the "Sifting Time" discussion board for Christians of all denominations. Thanks for your interest.

Edited July 13, 2008 by VisionOfLehi
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[Elphaba]

Is it your opinion that fornication and adultery are sins serious enough that if unrepented of they will sift the sinner to the Lord's left hand and make tares those who would otherwise be found among the sheep at His glorious second coming?

Why do you ask a question when you already know the answer?

If you think so, what can Christians of all denominations do to warn sexual sinners about the seriousness of what they are doing, and the urgent need to repent?

And what if someone didn’t “think so”? Would you take him seriously? We both know you wouldn’t, because it’s not what you believe.

"We could all be part-time CYBER MISSIONARIES, independently on our own initiative crying repentance all over CyberSpace, and, without putting down the beliefs of others, valiantly teaching Jesus risen, His Atonement for us, and lifestyle principles from Matthew Chapter 5

If you already knew you were beyond the point of people‘s opinions, as demonstrated by this suggestion, why did you even ask the “question” in your Opening Post?

I see nothing wrong with discussing your intent. I do believe it is wrong to ask a question when the answer is a given, as there is no right answer except the one you want.

Ok, I give up with you.

This is a perfect illustration of my point.

You asked for people's opinions, and ProspectMom gave you hers. Yet you demeaned her for continuing to stand by her opinion.

In other words, if you are not going to listen to the answer, you should not be asking a question.

Elphaba

[justamere10]

Why do you ask a question when you already know the answer?

And what if someone didn’t “think so”? Would you take him seriously? We both know you wouldn’t, because it’s not what you believe.

If you already knew you were beyond the point of people‘s opinions, as demonstrated by this suggestion, why did you even ask the “question” in your Opening Post?

I see nothing wrong with discussing your intent. I do believe it is wrong to ask a question when the answer is a given, as there is no right answer except the one you want.

This is a perfect illustration of my point.

You asked for people's opinions, and ProspectMom gave you hers. Yet you demeaned her for continuing to stand by her opinion.

In other words, if you are not going to listen to the answer, you should not be asking a question.

Elphaba

I admit that I have been rushing from one to another of many things as I try to draw attention to two unique discussion boards about cyber missionary work that I think have a lot of potential to do some good. That is no excuse for demeaning anyone though and if I came across that way with ProspectMom, I apologize, thanks for speaking for the defense.

I AM listening to the answers. This thread has already helped me a lot and hopefully has provided some value for those who read it and who wrote in it as well, including yourself.

The thought of Latter-day Saints working hand in hand with members of other Christian denominations doing missionary work seems almost ludicrous at first and I really hesitated to even suggest the possibility. So I've been probing on a few LDS discussion boards to try to get some inkling if I may have crossed a line. This thread has helped me get some of that inkling.

I think it is possible for Christians to take an ecumenical approach to cyber missionary work. Helping move people from a wicked Telestial lifestyle to a righteous Terrestrial lifestyle is pretty much what ALL Christians, including LDS do. LDS just add on the Celestial element, which when you think about it is a POST Millennium concern much more than the urgent need today to help get God's children on earth qualified for the Millennium. We can do both concurrently is my thinking. Am I making sense? A great place to discuss this would be at my site where it is the main feature of the board.

What happens over the next few months at CTR1.org, perhaps especially in the Mormon forum, will pretty much determine if there is any viability to that notion, at least as as it may be applied in CyberSpace. It's very much an experiment, and it may very well fail to produce useful fruit, time will tell. If nothing else, it could help get Mormons interacting with non-Mormons of many denominations in a friendly atmosphere.

I built the site, it's different than all others, the question is, will they come? I am doing what I can to attract Mormons to that board as well as other Christians. If nothing else, this thread may be helping do that...

Edited July 13, 2008 by VisionOfLehi
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[lilered]

In my view, the center of Gods Salvation plan is love and the family unit. Therefore, anything that violates creation of life, love, and the family unit is a grave and serious sin(s).

Fornification, Adultry, and abortion certaintly affect all three. Not to mention breaking our Temple Vows and Covenants.

Edited July 11, 2008 by lilered

[MarginOfError]

A great place to discuss this would be at www.CTR1.org where it is the main feature of the board....I built it (www.CTR1.org), it's different than all others, the question is, will they come?

okay...we get it...CTR1.org is a great place to be a cyber missionary. Can we put an end to the advertising now?

[justamere10]

okay...we get it...CTR1.org is a great place to be a cyber missionary. Can we put an end to the advertising now?

Can we put an end to the war of words now?

[abqfriend]

I am Catholic, but I can at least agree with you and the focus of Love as being the center of Salvation. As far as the family unit, my Church views marriage as a Sacrament-so we consider it very important. My Church is also very anti-divorce and one of the strongest advocates of family values and pro-life in the Christian faith tradition.

Pro-Life

Pro-Family

Marriage as a Sacred Act (Sacrament)

Anti-Divorce

-pretty strong on family values.

-Carol-wife of 33 years here and counting.

In my view, the center of Gods Salvation plan is love and the family unit. Therefore, anything that violates creation of life, love, and the family unit is a grave and serious sin(s).

Fornification, Adultry, and abortion certaintly affect all three. Not to mention breaking our Temple Vows and Covenants.

[FayetteIA]

I still do not see what is the problem. You teach the doctrine to non-members based on your beliefs..not the non-members beliefs. However, if the intent is to point out what they are doing wrong...so you can convince them of the errors of their ways...I don't think you need a much bigger stick than that to run them off.

My Patriarchal blessing tells me to show the beauties of this church through the life that I live, that others would want what I have....I do not think I will be looking to convince my neighbor who lives with his GF how he is sinning...I have never even seen him go to church. He knows I am LDS...sometimes you have to wisely chose your (battles?) positions. It will not be the same for everyone you meet, because everyone is different and unique. The Lord did not condem the harlot, he said simply "Go thy way and sin no more" He also told the crowd, "Let him who is without sin, cast the first stone"

Sometimes in our overzealousness, our good intentions can go awry real fast. I find that prayer first, is the best policy: for me..Before I speak to non-members on any Doctrine issues other than my Testimony or to explain why, I am a Latter-Day Saint.

Joni

[prospectmom]

Sometimes in our overzealousness, our good intentions can go awry real fast. I find that prayer first, is the best policy: for me..Before I speak to non-members on any Doctrine issues other than my Testimony or to explain why, I am a Latter-Day Saint.

Thank You Joni ........

The Lord did not condem the harlot, he said simply "Go thy way and sin no more" He also told the crowd, "Let him who is without sin, cast the first stone"

again my point also

I so agree with both Elph and Fayatte........ I went by your post here and really did not want to go to your website............ I will and see if that changes my mind at all ...........

[justamere10]

Are we not called to cry repentance to all?

Below is a link to 246 instances of the word "repent" or "repentance" appearing in the LDS canon. It must be important!

Word Search: repentance

Here are just a few:

"Behold, the world is ripening in iniquity; and it must needs be that the children of men are stirred up unto repentance, both the Gentiles and also the house of Israel." D&C 18: 6

Doctrine and Covenants 18

"Wherefore, you are called to cry repentance unto this people. And if it so be that you should labor all your days in crying repentance unto this people, and bring, save it be one soul unto me, how great shall be your joy with him in the kingdom of my Father!" D&C 18: 14,15

Doctrine and Covenants 18

"And now for this cause, that ye may not be destroyed, the Lord has sent his angel to visit many of his people, declaring unto them that they must go forth and cry mightily unto this people, saying: Repent ye, for the kingdom of heaven is nigh at hand;" Alma 9: 25

Alma 9

"And now I say unto you that this is the order after which I am called, yea, to preach unto my beloved brethren, yea, and every one that dwelleth in the land; yea, to preach unto all, both old and young, both bond and free; yea, I say unto you the aged, and also the middle aged, and the rising generation; yea, to cry unto them that they must repent and be born again." Alma 5: 49

Alma 5

"Therefore I command you to repent—repent, lest I smite you by the rod of my mouth, and by my wrath, and by my anger, and your sufferings be sore—how sore you know not, how exquisite you know not, yea, how hard to bear you know not. For behold, I, God, have suffered these things for all, that they might not suffer if they would repent; But if they would not repent they must suffer even as I;" D&C 19: 15

Doctrine and Covenants 19

Edited July 12, 2008 by justamere10

[WANDERER]

and only 62 for forgiveness and 94 for condemnation and 301 for judge. Judging wins.

[justamere10]

and only 62 for forgiveness and 94 for condemnation and 301 for judge. Judging wins.

Is it your opinion then that we are not required to cry repentance to this generation?