Sharing with a Friend OR Gossip? - How to Tell?

[PapilioMemnon]

Recently a person (Who, I'll refer to as X) came to my place, and in the middle of our trivial conversation, she began talking about another person (who is another member of the LDS Church, and I'll refere to as Z) and some problems they were having (I'm not going to elaborate on what it was since I only know less than half of the story, and have heard only one side).

As X began talking about the issue she had with Z, and using some names to describe Z's attitudes/behavior, then I quickly realized that the conversation was changing it's tone, I felt "constrained, uneasy,"and I noticed I couldn't be of any help, X had already decided what she was going to do; she wasn't coming to me to ask for advice. So, to me, it seemd unkind & uncharitable to me to continue the conversation especially since Z was not present and I had no idea of previous issues, and what actually happened.

So, kindly, I told X that I understood & acknowledged she was frustrated, but this issue should be resolved with Z directly, and if anything else, she, X, should talk to the Bishop or the RS President (Relief Society) about it.

I told her that I felt it would be kind & charitable to Z that we didn't discuss her and her ideas/behavior especially when I don't know her well and she's not present to give her side and defend herself.

She seemed to have agreed, and I just changed the conversation to somethign else.

I feel she could've told me about the problem in another way, not dropping names and talking about the person's atittude & behavior in a derogatory way or using an analogy to her situation but that I wouldn't be able to clearly identify who she was talking about. I've been feeling very sensitive about this, like, when I realize for what it is.

I understand the need to talk to someone about what you're feeling or seek advice, but I feel that gossiping is harsh, mean, unkind, uncharitable, and very detrimental to any relationship; if you hear someone talking bad about someone else about any issue, and the other is not present and can't defend themselves, at some point, this will happen to the "listener" as well.

What I find very bad in gossiping, usually, the person who talks about another, will not go back to all those he/she spoke to, to make ammends on behalf of the peron spoken about (If she/he apologized, or tehy worked out...). The image of the other person is "stained,'' even if after the fact, the person who talked in the first place, was wrong or ...

If strongly feel that we should approach the person directly and privately to talk about any issue we might have with the person instead of giving our opinions and perceptions of how/why this person is this or that (Since we usually don't make a clear distinction about the person & behavior), and that we learn about a person directly from the person, not someone who might have bad feelings/opinions about him/her as well

(I feel that the exceptions to that would be if someone is abusive/violent/criminal/bad intentions and continues doing that, then it's not gossip if you warn others about him/her)

Now, when do you feel/know that talking about a problem that involves someone else becomes gossiping?

I truly would like to hear several points of view from many different people who would like to share their experiences/ideas/thoughts on the topic regardless of religious beliefs since I don't beleve this is about religion only.

It will be greatly appreciated!

I also would like to suggest that this is valid as well for us here, members of this board, and not just "real" life interactions.

* By the way, this is quite different from talking about someone who is abusive, i.e., please seek help & someone if you're suffering from abuse or is the victm of violence abuse (Of any kind), rape, etc.

Edited July 17, 2008 by PapilioMemnon

[unixknight]

It becomes gossip when the person would be unwilling to say it in the presence of the subject person.

[Misshalfway]

As I have asked myself similar questions and I find that there is lots of gray area on this subject!!

There is definite times when it is just unadulterated gossip and other times when I am just not sure I should be hearing something. If a person comes to me and wants to talk about trouble they are having with a something or a someone, then I don't think it is gossip because the intent of the conversation is focused on the person I am talking to. Perhaps they need a confidant or a sounding board or some advice. Perhaps they need a friend to help them see a different perspective or tell them the truth about themselves. I have needed a friend like that on many occasions. Someone I can confide in that I know won't tell the next guy what I said.....or didn't say. :) In this case, It is not really about the person they may be talking about. I find however, if someone is just talking to spred the news that I feel uncomfortable and try to change the subject or exit it somehow. And I try hard to forget things I hear.....or at least not to give them credibility unless it is something that I really need to be aware of because it effects me directly. I tend to defend underdogs anyway, so if someone is getting the bad rap, I tend towards defending them in their absence.

Edited July 16, 2008 by Misshalfway

[MorningStar]

I think it depends. Sometimes I will talk to someone about another person asking how I can deal with them better so I can avoid hurting their feelings or understand them better. And I know I appreciate it when people give me a heads up to avoid embarrassing situations. For instance, I had no idea this couple had gotten divorced and while we were at choir practice, I asked this man, "Where has your wife been? I haven't seen her in a long time." She used to come to choir all the time. He said, "Oh, she left me 5 months ago." The RS Pres. said later, "Oh dear, you don't want to gossip, but then you don't want that to happen either!" I said, "Yeah, someone throw me a bone or something!" My ward is pretty good about gossip - so good that I had to tell almost everyone myself that I was pregnant. I started telling people to spread it around so no one would be offended that they didn't know.

In an old ward, I had a situation where I found it necessary to tell a few people that a lady I visit taught aimed a gun at me during our visit, but it wasn't out of meanness, it was to protect them on a need to know basis. We were sitting at her table and a gun was sitting on it. I wasn't comfortable visiting with it there and I said, "Uhhhhh ... there's a gun aiming at you." She picked it up, aimed it at me and said, "It's not loaded." Scared the crud out of me.

[PapilioMemnon]

As I have asked myself similar questions and I find that there is lots of gray area on this subject!!

There is definite times when it is just unadulterated gossip and other times when I am just not sure I should be hearing something.

Right! Sometimes is just plain gossip; those are easy to spot. I completely agree with you that about the "gray areas."

If a person comes to me and wants to talk about trouble they are having with a something or a someone, then I don't think it is gossip because the intent of the conversation is focused on the person I am talking to. Perhaps they need a confidant or a sounding board or some advice. Perhaps they need a friend to help them see a different perspective or tell them the truth about themselves.

So, you're saying that if someone discussing a problem that involves someone, it's not necessarily gossip, just someone trying to sort things out, and perhaps, hear the truth about them they may not be seeing. Did I get that right?

I just had a this type of conversation (She needed to hear the truth instead of blaming the other person) with a friend last night, but the difference is, I told it to her instead of discussing "her" with someone else.

I have needed a friend like that on many occasions. Someone I can confide in that I know won't tell the next guy what I said.....or didn't say. :)

I think that everyone of us have had those moments... It's comforting to know there're people that a person can go to, especially someone who will listen & tell you things you might need to hear, and, I love the point you made, who won't say to anyone else and won't add to it!

In this case, It is not really about the person they may be talking about.

Even if another person will be discussed as well? I guess what I get confused is with the fact that even though I might be focusing on the issue at hand, I will be talking or listening to someone discussing X&Z, and then not sure where the line lies.

Does it make sense?

I find however, if someone is just talking to spred the news that I feel uncomfortable and try to change the subject or exit it somehow. And I try hard to forget things I hear.....

Right,... those are sort of easier to spot... I think most of us can spot those easily. I try to exit or dismiss it right away as well!

I also try not to remember what was said about someone, and always try to give them the benefit of the doubt.

or at least not to give them credibility unless it is something that I really need to be aware of because it effects me directly.

Right. I do agree we need to be watchful about some people and situations something might happen.

I tend to defend underdogs anyway, so if someone is getting the bad rap, I tend towards defending them in their absence.

I hear you! Someone once accused me of being against him because I used to defend others, and not take his side. I tried explaining several times that it wasn't about him, but that I disliked him talking bad about people period, and sometimes people who were his friends. I simply really disliked it, and still do.

Thank you so much for your input! I feel the more responses and discussions I have about this, I'll be able to identify the "fine" line much better.

Edited July 17, 2008 by PapilioMemnon

[PapilioMemnon]

It becomes gossip when the person would be unwilling to say it in the presence of the subject person.

I do agree and disagree to some extent.

I do agree that if this person can't tell the same things in front of the person, it's clearly gossip. However, I know some people who will talk behind their backs, and would throw on their faces as well along with more. So, wouldn't it be gossip anyway discussing in a derogatory way anyone whether or not they would tell them as well?

Just trying to figure things out...

Thanks for your input!!!

[ruthiechan]

I was told a few things about another gal at Church, and it colors my perception. However, part of it was because she was not dependable in any way, so now I know not to trust her with really important things, but there were other things mentioned about her and another sister that were clearly gossip. So I think of them differently and now I have always talk myself into giving them the benefit of the doubt. =/

Here's a story my Mom told me. A man went to see his pastor about some things. The man wanted to take back some things that were said and wanted to know how he could do that. The pastor told him to gather feathers and put them on the front porch of everyone in the village/neighborhood. So the man did. He went back to his pastor and basically said okay, now what? The pastor told him, okay, no go back and pick up all feathers. The man balked and said, but I can't. The wind has blown them every which way. The pastor said and so it is with Gossip. Once the words are said you can't really take them back because you don't know how far it's stretched.

So, I take this to mean, be careful with your words, make amends with the person you gossiped about or were having trouble with, and if you said anything bad about this person to someone else let them know that you worked it out. At least you'll have picked up some of your feathers, if not all.

[unixknight]

I do agree and disagree to some extent.

I do agree that if this person can't tell the same things in front of the person, it's clearly gossip. However, I know some people who will talk behind their backs, and would throw on their faces as well along with more. So, wouldn't it be gossip anyway discussing in a derogatory way anyone whether or not they would tell them as well?

Just trying to figure things out...

Thanks for your input!!!

Good question...

My inclination is to say it isn't gossip because at least they're consistent... Rude maybe.. mean spirited maybe... but consistent...

It it any better than gossip? Probably not, since on some level by being willing to sit and listen to it, one provides encouragement to the person being rude by giving them an audience.

[PapilioMemnon]

I think it depends. Sometimes I will talk to someone about another person asking how I can deal with them better so I can avoid hurting their feelings or understand them better. And I know I appreciate it when people give me a heads up to avoid embarrassing situations. For instance, I had no idea this couple had gotten divorced and while we were at choir practice, I asked this man, "Where has your wife been? I haven't seen her in a long time." She used to come to choir all the time. He said, "Oh, she left me 5 months ago." The RS Pres. said later, "Oh dear, you don't want to gossip, but then you don't want that to happen either!" I said, "Yeah, someone throw me a bone or something!" My ward is pretty good about gossip - so good that I had to tell almost everyone myself that I was pregnant. I started telling people to spread it around so no one would be offended that they didn't know.

Right! I think in this case, the person is genuinely trying to know how to approach someone because of the reasons you stated. I feel that's different than gossiping.

About your experience, even though I'd be a little embarassed about putting the person on the spot, in the case you stated, I would be okay, and just apologize and say I didn't know about that. I think that's a pretty good sign there's no gossiping going on!

Thumbs up for your ward!!!! :)

In an old ward, I had a situation where I found it necessary to tell a few people that a lady I visit taught aimed a gun at me during our visit, but it wasn't out of meanness, it was to protect them on a need to know basis. We were sitting at her table and a gun was sitting on it. I wasn't comfortable visiting with it there and I said, "Uhhhhh ... there's a gun aiming at you." She picked it up, aimed it at me and said, "It's not loaded." Scared the crud out of me.

WOW!.... Yeah, in this case, I think I would have done the same because it's such an unusual situation, and others might really need to know for protection.

I'm sorry, but I laughed so much when I read this (Sometimes, I laugh at weird things)... How crazy....!!! I think I'd be frightened!!!

I really appreciate your input as well, and for sharing those experiences!

[PapilioMemnon]

I was told a few things about another gal at Church, and it colors my perception. However, part of it was because she was not dependable in any way, so now I know not to trust her with really important things, but there were other things mentioned about her and another sister that were clearly gossip. So I think of them differently and now I have always talk myself into giving them the benefit of the doubt. =/

Right. I think we should be able to step away give someone the benefit of the doubt before accepting someone's words about another as it is given.

Here's a story my Mom told me. A man went to see his pastor about some things. The man wanted to take back some things that were said and wanted to know how he could do that. The pastor told him to gather feathers and put them on the front porch of everyone in the village/neighborhood. So the man did. He went back to his pastor and basically said okay, now what? The pastor told him, okay, no go back and pick up all feathers. The man balked and said, but I can't. The wind has blown them every which way. The pastor said and so it is with Gossip. Once the words are said you can't really take them back because you don't know how far it's stretched.

So, I take this to mean, be careful with your words, make amends with the person you gossiped about or were having trouble with, and if you said anything bad about this person to someone else let them know that you worked it out. At least you'll have picked up some of your feathers, if not all.

Great point! Especially when it goes from one person to another to another.... at the end, they are not even telling the same story in the first place!!! It usually gets so altered!

It's quite hard trying to restitute someone's image... but definitely worth all a person can do!

WE must be really carefully with our words and how we speak about another person; they deserve the same respect we would like to have.

Thanks for your input!

[PapilioMemnon]

Good question...

My inclination is to say it isn't gossip because at least they're consistent... Rude maybe.. mean spirited maybe... but consistent...

It it any better than gossip? Probably not, since on some level by being willing to sit and listen to it, one provides encouragement to the person being rude by giving them an audience.

I really like the point you made when you said "being willing to sit and listen to it, one provides encouragement to the person being rude by giving them an audience." Really good point! A person will only say some things if there's someone willing to listen to it!

So, you feel that since the person is "consistent" with what he/she said and since would also tell on the person's face, you don't feel it's gossip if told to someone else as well? Waht would you do or say to someone so that you wouldn't encourage that behavior?

Edited July 17, 2008 by PapilioMemnon

[JcDean78]

Sometimes people just need to vent a little and as a friend they might want to vent to you. I think the advice to have them confront that person to work out their issues is the best thing to say.

Personally I have always seen the back bitting gossip issue about hidding things from people. As mentioned earlier, if you can not say it to a persons face then that turns it around to be gossip and thus you are hiding that from them. It creates secrets, trust issues, and can even lead to lies to help cover up the gossip.

[WANDERER]

Gossip has another label *venting*. Sometimes people ask you to be a sounding board rather than taking their frustrations out on another person that they don't comprehend or understand or when they have information that they are finding it difficult to deal with.

There's a two step process:

Listen. Paraphrase to show that you understand and acknowledge their feelings etc. Relate to your own experiences and situations without name dropping if they need empathy. Change the topic and try to distract them from their problems if they are looping on them because they feel there is no solution. Suggest they sleep on it. Tomorrow is another day. They may not have the social skills they need for that particular situation.

What not to do: join in with trashing the other person (this is just going to make their problem look bigger or exaggerate things). Tell them you don't want to listen and that they are horrible people which has the same effect. Moralise about how gossip is bad. Where is your patience and charity to that person?

Forget. Yes you can...it's not useful information. It's only going to hurt your relationships with other people. The gossiper's experiences and perceptions have nothing to do with your relationship with the person being gossiped about and nor should they. WHo is living your life? Make your own decisions and choices.

What not to do: pass on the information or try to confirm it with others. Tell the person who is being gossiped about. Third hand, fourth hand information...it's like chinese whispers. You do not need to vent...it's not your problem...avoid over-empathasising.

Gossip is clouded information...it's clouded by the perceptions and experiences of that person and how well they are coping on that particular day. Don't be influenced by it. As they clarify things and understand things differently the story they tell will change or decrease or increase in importance. It's a variable.

Note: there's usually someone who is a known gossip who overloads people with other information...sometimes they do it just because they believe if it said often enough other people will believe it : i.e. X is a bad person. This is the personal vendetta thingy personality trait. They actually stop telling you things when they realise you are not someone who will pass the information on...no purpose. They do target people who are trustworthy and believable, particularly if they repeat information 'aka the reliable witness'. *sigh*This is because their other sources no longer believe them or listen to them. If you are overloaded by interacting with this person then stop talking to them: yes you can. Do it subtly. They will twig that you stop talking to them whenever they bring up certain conversations. You are in control of what you listen to.

Type 2 is the person who has no other conversation and uses information about others as friendship currency...they can be great social organisers. Change the topic...usually difficult to do. Ignore. They're generally nice people who have no idea that others would rather hide behind furniture than talk to them. You could show patience...the rewards of being the one person who is patient with them... are huge. Or use the above conditioning technique.

Gossip does not include the information that people need to know: a friend is in hospital etc and is helpful to that person if you do know what's happening...and in most cases you can repeat it back to them (you have permission to know the information..in some cases you won't and you'll need discernment as to whether to take it on board or not)

[unixknight]

I really like the point you made when you said "being willing to sit and listen to it, one provides encouragement to the person being rude by giving them an audience." Really good point! A person will only say some things if there's someone willing to listen to it!

So, you feel that since the person is "consistent" with what he/she said and since would also tell on the person's face, you don't feel it's gossip if told to someone else as well? Waht would you do or say to someone so that you wouldn't encourage that behavior?

I think what I'd say to them is something along the lines of: "Hey, I appreciate where you're coming from but have you talked to X about this? I think you'd be better off starting there." And be firm about it unless they're asking you for advice on how to go about doing that.

If they're willing to do that, it'll take all the fun out of filling your ear with it later, and if they aren't, you've saved yourself from hearing gossip.

[MarginOfError]

Warning: In the following I'm going to use broad generalizations and stereotypes that do not extend universally to women. Still, some elements may shed light on what's happening.

Deborah Tannen writes in her book You Just Don't Understand a chapter about gossip. She states that women use gossip as a way to negotiate both intimacy and status. She says that many women will trade secrets as an indirect way of saying, "I like you and want to be your friend." At the same time, the more secrets a woman knows, the more friends she must have, therefore, the more popular she must be (higher status).

For me, I'd say it's the idea of status that plays into whether or not it is gossip. If X is telling you about Z for no other reason than to show that she knows something about Z, then it is gossip. However, if X is talking about Z in an attempt to make sense of her relationship with Z, then it's probably not gossip. Remember, people often don't understand the situations they are in until they articulate them.

Tangent: My wife and I almost never listen to each other. When I'm trying to figure something out, she'll pretend like she's listening, and by the time I've reached the end of what I'm saying I've figured it out. She does the same thing. She gets mad at me though, when she's talking for intimacy and I forget to tune in.

[hordak]

In the service we a had a saying, Praise in public, punish in private. While it doesn't fit the situation exactly i think its a pretty good guide line.

If talking about a 3 party it should be positive things about them. If there is a problem you should address them individually and privately.

If you must talk to someone else about it (most the time you shouldn't have to as you probably don't know the whole story) it should be done in anonymous hypotheticals.

[Misshalfway]

There is this idea in the church about bearing one another's burdens. I mean we kinda need to know about the struggle in order to bear it, kwim? So there has to be some kind of safe place we can create with one another to talk out important issues.

I so think that there is so much gray area, that we need the Spirit to help on a case by case basis. Even sometimes to discern the truth of what we hear. Maybe we can simply be trustworthy. We can be trusted with sensitive information, trusted to judge it fairly, and trusted not to spill the beans in our next casual conversation.

I was recently the subject of some of this gray area conversation. A family member was angry with me. She needed comfort. It was a very difficult situation for all of us. She shared her side with one friend and then another....and another.....and they shared with my friends who then stopped being my friends. It was an extremely painful experience. I don't begrudge this family member the right to trusted friends and support, but on the other hand, the information shared was inaccurate as I later found out after someone called and told me the story. I felt later that it was a calculated choice on this person's part to spread the word this way. I learned to pick better friends and to be more careful about who I trusted.

I remember a friend and I once decided together that any gossip we received would end with us. Every coin has too sides as they say and we all have our biases, especially when we feel hurt or wronged in some way. The words we say are rarely objective. But, a good listener can be.

Edited July 17, 2008 by Misshalfway

[MorningStar]

Is it gossiping when you tell funny stories about your kids?

[Misshalfway]

Haha!

It is when they don't want you to. ;( Didn't you see the episode of Aurthur where the mom tells the story about DW eating the green potato chip and how crushed she was?

[MorningStar]

No, I didn't see that one.

I have a couple friends who frequently "vent" about their husbands and I encourage them to express their feelings to them or maybe give them an alternate perspective, like when my friend was mad because he didn't want her to get a gym membership. I said, "Maybe it's because you bought that exercise bike and never used it, so he thinks it'll be an even bigger waste of money to get a gym membership because he thinks you won't use that either?" She thought he was being controlling, but I thought that was a valid concern. Our bishop talked to the Relief Society recently saying that we only get one side of the story when it comes to marital issues and not even he is qualified to tell someone to get divorced. There was a situation where one sister in our ward told her friend to leave, so that's where his comments came from. She didn't know the whole story and it wasn't her call to make. When another friend complains that her husband doesn't do x, y, and z, I ask her if she has ever told him that's what she wants and she says no, she shouldn't have to tell him, and I explain that he's not a mind reader and she can't expect him to think the same way she does.

[MorningStar]

Also, our bishop added that sometimes people intentionally leave out their part in marital issues because they want someone to tell them how right they are.

[PapilioMemnon]

Is it gossiping when you tell funny stories about your kids?

hahahaha... it's reminds me of so many funny things!!!

Even though they are my kids, I treat them as I'd treat people in general: I ask permission to share something about them, if they say "No,'' I respect it, and then ask: "Can I talk about the situation without mentioning your name?," Most of the time they agree! But most of the time, if it's not something they feel embarrassed about, they will tell me that I can talk about. And particularly my younger one... he loves when I talk about him.... he loves to be the center of attention!!! And my older one, since he likes to be funny... he usually won't say for me not to share... only very few things they would really not want me to, and I wouldn't... it would really embarrasse them... I'd feel bad doing it to them as to another person.

I try to give them the same respect as any human being, and not just say stuff about them just because they are my kids; I found they really, truly appreciate that!

I remember one time sharing soemthing I really didn't know he'd feel so upset about it , I think my younger one, and when I realized that he wasn't just pretending to be upset, I apologized to him (I think he's 5-6-7 at the time), and told him I'd never do that again. I felt really, really bad....

That's how I learned to check before I share their stuff!!!

Edited July 18, 2008 by PapilioMemnon

[PapilioMemnon]

Also, our bishop added that sometimes people intentionally leave out their part in marital issues because they want someone to tell them how right they are.

I couldn't have said it better! Marital issues are sacred ground... and am very careful to say anything about it. I usually encourage the person to talk to their spouse; if they share some very personal things that I'm not part of, she/he should be able to talk about anything and deal with it.

Sometimes they do need an outsider's perspective though, but usually listening only to one side, we'll never get the true picture and what both need to change or do.

[PapilioMemnon]

I truly thank all of you who pinched in, and shared your perspectives, experiences, and views... It's helping me discern things better...

I'll get back here later! I'm pondering some of this stuff and how that relates to some people.

If you have more things to say... please go ahead! :-)

[unixknight]

Telling funny stories about your kids is one of the benefits of being a parent.

But there's other times... Recently, my 12 year old confided in his mom (my ex) something deeply personal and she promptly shared it with her boyfriend, which has had a devastating impact on their relationship. She refuses to see it, but it's there, and he tells me what he's feeling and confides it in me. He asked me not to say anything to her and I haven't, but it breaks my heart to see him in need of someone to talk to and not being able to trust his own mom.