Snow Posted August 3, 2008 Report Share Posted August 3, 2008 (edited) ... Edited August 3, 2008 by Snow duplicate Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snow Posted August 3, 2008 Report Share Posted August 3, 2008 I totally agree with McBeastly.Snow, My grandmother was the most righteous living, Christlike person I EVER have personally come in contact with. She never drank or smoked, she took very well care of her family and her health, she had more integrity than most LDS people walking around nowadays.It was plain and simple for her, she found out that blacks couldn't have the priesthood (chuch history). She couldn't find a feasible explaination for this descrimination and left the church. It was NOT "just an excuse".You are implyling that all people that leave the church are weak...and that is just not the case. Many of them are searching for the complete truth...which is the same reason they were open enough to listen to the missionaries in the first place. If they feel like there was information withheld, they're likely to question the integrity of the church or the leaders of the church. It doesn't seem right to act like none of this stuff ever happened, but rather we should learn it and understand it so we can help others understand these things.Doesn't it make sense that God wants to be completely honest with his children? Don't you think new converts and others expect that same honesty from God and his church?I have come to expect this honestly from the Lord, and search for truth in all things...which includes "controversial" church history.-----------------------------------I find it interesting that on this site there are some (both LDS and non) that tend to fit a whole group of people into these big boxes with general statements. It's kinda like saying "People of Asian desent are smart" or "Arabs are all terrorists". Doesn't make much sense to me.I am not implying anything (as you said): I am saying that I discount what I read on the internet (especially second hand accounts) and that of those that I know that have left the Church, regardless of the reasons they verbalize, ALL had issues with obedience to the commandments.Sure - it just be a coincidence that when a member starts to like partying and drinking beer on the weekend, they simultaneously come to the conclusion that JS wasn't a prophet, or at about the same time they started sleeping around on their husband they struggled with the doctrine of theosis, but I don't place much credence in such coincidences.Does that mean that is what happens in a hundred percent of the cases - I have no way to know since I don't personally know 100% of those that leave the Church. I can only comment on what I know.... and by the way, it is a factually true statement to say that Asians are smart or that Arabs are terrorists. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elphaba Posted August 3, 2008 Report Share Posted August 3, 2008 (edited) Perhaps this is an endictment of the Church, but .... No, it's not a copout. It's real. I have always been very inquisitive, very interested in learning whatever I can about just about anything. When I was 10 or 11, I used to randomly open the encylopaedia and read out of it, just to learn something. BUT. I never heard of Adam-God until I was attacked with in whilst on my mission. Yup. I promise. Same thing with lots of other Church history stuff. I had NO CLUE. HiJollyI heard the phrase "Adam/God" while I was in a branch in Massachusetts. I had no idea what it was, and when I tried to find information on it, no one would tell me. I'm sure this is because most of the people I asked didn't know either.I tried looking in some books for it, but couldn't find anything. This would have been 1973 or '74.Elphaba Edited August 4, 2008 by Elphaba To fix gross, unimaginable, egregious and shameful grammatically incorrect word. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WANDERER Posted August 3, 2008 Report Share Posted August 3, 2008 I think it would be fair to look at things in a broader way and the number of people who are leaving churches and discarding religion on the whole...it's not just an LDS thing. Are they all living massively immoral lifestyles and going, yay, no limits...or just not members of a church? Is it about the rules...or a crisis of faith? Some return. Some don't. Whatever the reasons are...they're probably complex ...and it's not as simple as saying bad people leave the church and good people stay. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Palerider Posted August 3, 2008 Report Share Posted August 3, 2008 I heard the phrase "Adam/God" while I was in a branch in Massachusetts. I had no idea what it was, and when I tried to find information on it, no one would tell me. I'm sure this is because most of the people I asked didn't know either.I tried looking in some books for it, but couldn't find nothing. This would have been 1973 or '74.Elphaba wow....are you telling us that they had books back then????:D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pam Posted August 3, 2008 Report Share Posted August 3, 2008 wow....are you telling us that they had books back then????:D Your age is showing Pale if you can't remember that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
funkymonkey Posted August 3, 2008 Report Share Posted August 3, 2008 (edited) Sorry Snow. I meant to say that mnn727 was implying by saying that they use it as an "excuse". As you say, you were just stating what you have seen. ...by the way those examples of generalized statements are just simple stereotypes; stereotyping is a form of ignorance. Think of the Mormon stereotypes you've heard over the years, they're probably not entirely accurate. Edited August 3, 2008 by funkymonkey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
choice Posted August 3, 2008 Report Share Posted August 3, 2008 You mentioned that the mother struggled for years on a low wage trying to raise her daughters. What if she had been a full tithe payer? Maybe her struggles might have been much easier to bear? I know this will sound cold hearted, but it's hard to feel the love when someone is refusing Heavenly Father's blessings.From my humble experience, usually, when its the hardest to feel the love ... is the time when you most need to feel it.Perhaps its not for us to speculate about the 'struggles' of another - but rather to offer a hand of service, a heart of compassion.Why would we refuse ourselves the blessings that come from our Heavenly Father when we follow the Saviour's commandment to 'love one another'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Palerider Posted August 3, 2008 Report Share Posted August 3, 2008 Your age is showing Pale if you can't remember that. and my question to you is....did you write with hammer and chisels in your day....:D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john doe Posted August 3, 2008 Report Share Posted August 3, 2008 and my question to you is....did you write with hammer and chisels in your day....:D Be nice to Pam. After all, she had to learn to speak, read and write a new language, with that whole Tower of Babel thing and all........... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pam Posted August 3, 2008 Report Share Posted August 3, 2008 Be nice to Pam. After all, she had to learn to speak, read and write a new language, with that whole Tower of Babel thing and all........... Okay that's it JD. When we all get together as family for Thanksgiving this year...it's yams and pumpkin pie ONLY for you. That's all you will be getting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john doe Posted August 3, 2008 Report Share Posted August 3, 2008 Okay that's it JD. When we all get together as family for Thanksgiving this year...it's yams and pumpkin pie ONLY for you. That's all you will be getting. I guess that'll be a good time to start the holiday diet then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Palerider Posted August 3, 2008 Report Share Posted August 3, 2008 Be nice to Pam. After all, she had to learn to speak, read and write a new language, with that whole Tower of Babel thing and all........... you think she can remember all that.....:D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john doe Posted August 3, 2008 Report Share Posted August 3, 2008 you think she can remember all that.....:D Do you remember that frozen wooly mammoth they found in Siberia a couple years ago? Pam was so excited they finally found her pet elephant. :DOkay, I'm going to my room now before she bans me.:eek: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iggy Posted August 3, 2008 Report Share Posted August 3, 2008 I can see weirdness in the accounts of my own life. Um, Well, MMmmm, My Grandmother always called that Eccentric, Eclectic, Unique. Not weirdness. Pres. Hinckley said we are a Peculiar People.Moksha, you can call it Weirdness , but for me and my house we are Eccentric:clown:, Eclectic:hi:, Unique:winner:- a regular Renaissance Peoples. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pam Posted August 3, 2008 Report Share Posted August 3, 2008 Do you remember that frozen wooly mammoth they found in Siberia a couple years ago? Pam was so excited they finally found her pet elephant. :DOkay, I'm going to my room now before she bans me.:eek: So not funny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iggy Posted August 3, 2008 Report Share Posted August 3, 2008 Okay that's it JD. When we all get together as family for Thanksgiving this year...it's yams and pumpkin pie ONLY for you. That's all you will be getting. Pam, are you saying JD doesn't like Yams and Pumpkin Pie? What kind of an All American Guy is he after all???? I don't like the bakery or frozen Pumpkin Pies, they are too heavy for me. I'll hunt down my Grandma's Pumpkin Pie recipe and post it on the board. It makes a 9 inch deep dish pie with extra that I put into custard cups. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Palerider Posted August 3, 2008 Report Share Posted August 3, 2008 So not funny i thought it was funny:) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pam Posted August 3, 2008 Report Share Posted August 3, 2008 Pam, are you saying JD doesn't like Yams and Pumpkin Pie? What kind of an All American Guy is he after all???? I don't like the bakery or frozen Pumpkin Pies, they are too heavy for me. I'll hunt down my Grandma's Pumpkin Pie recipe and post it on the board. It makes a 9 inch deep dish pie with extra that I put into custard cups. That would be great Iggy if you could post it under the recipe section. I would love to have it. I'll make a special batch just for JD. No need to thank me JD..I know you appreciate the thought I would put into it.Thanks Iggy. You are awesome. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pam Posted August 3, 2008 Report Share Posted August 3, 2008 Now that we've gotten totally off topic...back to it. haha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Palerider Posted August 3, 2008 Report Share Posted August 3, 2008 Now that we've gotten totally off topic...back to it. haha brownoser Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NateHowe Posted August 3, 2008 Report Share Posted August 3, 2008 My post was not intended to be narrow in scope or offensive to anyone. Staying in the Church boils down to testimony. The other things mentioned in this thread which cause people to leave the Church do so because they are allowed to destroy or distract from a living testimony. If you have a testimony through the Spirit of Revelation that the President of the Church is a living prophet, you will either stay firm in the Church or deny that testimony and leave. It's that simple. If you have not received that testimony, you will either gain it or go astray. I'm not trying to be harsh here. I can't judge the intents of anybody's heart. I just have to be clear on this - those who maintain their testimonies of the Restoration by obeying the living prophet will remain faithful. Those who allow themselves to become sidetracked with anything else take a great risk, and many fall away. No offensive action or piece of historical trivia nullifies that point. The prophet is the mouthpiece of God, and there is no way to follow him and leave the Church at the same time. The testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
choice Posted August 3, 2008 Report Share Posted August 3, 2008 I can see weirdness in the accounts of my own life. :)... none of them, not a single one, has been living moral gospel principles... and not a one of them says that their failure to live moral gospel principles is the real cause of leaving the Church.I know my Heavenly Father to be full of mercy and compassion.That is why He sent His only begotten, to atone for our sins.Yashua, Jesus of Nazareth.The firstfruits. The lamb of God. Only He was worthy to fulfill this calling ...because only He was perfect. Only He has walked and suffered in this world and remained spotless and without blemish.That is why, each day, I call upon the Father, through the name of the Son, Jesus the Christ, and repent of my own weaknesses and failings and strive to do better.Perhaps as members of 'the church' of the lamb we could help each other better live gospel principles by emanating the qualities of the Messiah whose church we belong to. More compassion, less judgement.:) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
choice Posted August 3, 2008 Report Share Posted August 3, 2008 If you have a testimony through the Spirit of Revelation that the President of the Church is a living prophet, you will either stay firm in the Church or deny that testimony and leave. It's that simple.I agree. I believe if you have received witness of truth through the Spirit of Revelation then intellectual reasoning, one with another, on matters arising and mis-understandings, remains secondary. Keeping things simple may be one of the great quests in this life.As you said, maintaining our testimony is vital. That Christ lives, that we are part of His living church, and that he has called a living prophet, seer and revelator, Pres. Thomas S. Monson. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elphaba Posted August 3, 2008 Report Share Posted August 3, 2008 wow....are you telling us that they had books back then????:DWell, yes they did, Pale. But, they were written in Reformed English so I couldn't read them.Hey! I just realized. You're so old Reformed English was probably your spoken and written language? Yes? Now, where can I find those books again?Elphie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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