Speaking in tongues

[bytor2112]

I have watched TV evangelists "speak in tongues" while preaching and I have visited Pentacostal Churches where this is very common as well. Why would the Lord want someone to speak a foreign tongue while preaching? Is it of God or something else? Is it just made up to elicit excitement from the congregation?

[BenRaines]

I believe that if there are those who can understand the language in the congregation then speaking in tongues allows those who do not speak the language of the speaker to understand. Television evangelists and those who speak in tongues when no one understands are all for show, in my opinion.

I know that there are those who say that if someone is taken up in the spirit they are the ones who understand when no one else can't.

Scriptural references to speaking in tongues makes the comment of "How can we understand this man when he is not from our area". Speaking in tongues allows those who speak a different language to understand.

Ben Raines

[WANDERER]

I have heard of the gift of Interpretation of Tongues. My understanding that as it is a gift from the Holy Spirit that it may involve personal revelation for those that can interpret it or be a bit like parables or a blessing to those that hear or receive it but don't understand. Speaking in tongues is a very common thing within pentecostal churches just like singing or praying and it's just part of the meeting. I guess how the congregation responds...it is likely that they will pray in tongues or shout something back in tongues in some congregations. Is it emotionalism...well I think there might be a few who would have an emotional response to it depending on what meaning it held for them...but you are talking about a mainstream type of thing happening...as in any other church there are kids playing on the floor, people doing other things or half asleep. From my experiences...these are probably not everyone's. I know there is an understanding that they will be speaking in another authentic language...or perhaps a combination...or in a spiritual language (which is definitely more common although there have been occasions where someone has identified a language when I have been there). Does the person who is speaking in tongues understand what they are saying...in some cases not. I've no idea what to think on this one. Not all pentecostal churches are the same in their beliefs.

Edited August 4, 2008 by WANDERER

[Rico]

Often, during testimony meetings or prayers or even talks done in a language I do not understand, I walk away feeling like I have understood what is said. That's the power of the Holy Spirit. It isn't speaking some unintelligible language just so others can think you are spiritually gifted.

[prisonchaplain]

I have watched TV evangelists "speak in tongues" while preaching and I have visited Pentacostal Churches where this is very common as well. Why would the Lord want someone to speak a foreign tongue while preaching?

S/he's just feeling blessed by the Spirit, and lets it spill out. Chances are, the tongues is simply praise to God, and is not really meant for others to know or interpret. Ideally, such tongues speech is reserved for private prayer or worship.

Is it of God or something else? Is it just made up to elicit excitement from the congregation?

The tongues are given by the Holy Spirit. But again, for a public speaker to use them while preaching is spiritual sloppiness. It serves no purpose.

[Heavenguard]

I like to think back to the Pentecost when the Holy Spirit first came upon the Apostles and they began preaching in tongues and when the people could not understand this, accused them of being drunk at 9.00 in the morning

There were people who heard them speak in their own native tongues. I think it's both for the people who do not understand the preacher's native tongue, but also a miracle that has consistently been performed by God's common people to demonstrate his power. How else could you possibly explain people suddenly speaking in a language they could never understand before? By God's power alone!

[bytor2112]

In our faith (LDS), the gift of tongues is often given to Missionaries when going to a foreign mission. The TV evangelists seem as though it is more for entertainment value. I am not sure that what goes on in other churches that speak in "tongues" is from God.

[WANDERER]

I know. I visited the official website for references on gifts of the Spirit. The words are the same, but the understanding and application is different.

[Misshalfway]

I remember speaking to some on my mission who felt that speaking in tongues was the only measure of feeling the Spirit or not. In all of my study on this particular subject inside of biblical scripture, I don't see the manifestation described in the way these rituals were described to me. Some of these rituals had people dancing about and some involved snakes. I don't quite know what to make of all of it. It is nothing that I have experienced with the Spirit and has caused me pause.

I so agree with you, Wanderer. It seems that the scriptural term of "speaking in tongues" has various understandings and applications.

[HiJolly]

I think (IIRC) that speaking in tongues first occurred in the Church in Kirtland, OH. It was a sister, I think, but not too long afterward Brigham Young had the experience as well. Then there were some copy-cat occurances that brought us the policy that someone must interpret.

It was actually fairly common in Relief Society until the turn of the 20th Century. Then it kind of disappeared, as the elder sisters passed away, the younger ones didn't continue it.

HiJolly

[bytor2112]

I know that many early converts brought in to the church beliefs and practices that were not in tune with the restored Gospel. I have witnessed people speaking in tongues and other such "spiritual" manifestations and they seemed anything but spiritual. Perhaps the "spirit" that was speaking through them is other than holy.

[bytor2112]

I have spent lots of time in drawn out, heart felt prayer, petitioning my Father in Heaven for wisdom, knowledge....forgivness, etc. I have spent a great deal of time in the Temple and never once have I been overcome by the Spirit and spoke in tongues. Why would the Lord manifest himelf in this way? What about those who pray about the BOM or the church and don't recieve an answer. I can't believe that these kind of occurences are from God.

[HiJolly]

I have spent lots of time in drawn out, heart felt prayer, petitioning my Father in Heaven for wisdom, knowledge....forgivness, etc. I have spent a great deal of time in the Temple and never once have I been overcome by the Spirit and spoke in tongues. Why would the Lord manifest himelf in this way? What about those who pray about the BOM or the church and don't recieve an answer. I can't believe that these kind of occurences are from God.

Bummer.

Moroni 10:

8 And again, I exhort you, my brethren, that ye deny not the gifts of God, for they are many; and they come from the same God. And there are different ways that these gifts are administered; but it is the same God who worketh all in all; and they are given by the manifestations of the Spirit of God unto men, to profit them.

9 For behold, to one is given by the Spirit of God, that he may teach the word of wisdom;

10 And to another, that he may teach the word of knowledge by the same Spirit;

11 And to another, exceedingly great faith; and to another, the gifts of healing by the same Spirit;

12 And again, to another, that he may work mighty miracles;

13 And again, to another, that he may prophesy concerning all things;

14 And again, to another, the beholding of angels and ministering spirits;

15 And again, to another, all kinds of tongues;

16 And again, to another, the interpretation of languages and of divers kinds of tongues.

17 And all these gifts come by the Spirit of Christ; and they come unto every man severally, according as he will.

18 And I would exhort you, my beloved brethren, that ye remember that every good gift cometh of Christ.

HiJolly

[Misshalfway]

I think that you hit the nail on the head, Hijolly. I think that some are given these gifts.....and in my experience, there was a need or circumstance that preceded the manifestation. I have not been blessed with such a thing. But then again, I don't know if I have ever been in a position where such a gift was necessary. I don't know much about the early church and the practices in RS. I suppose I would like to know a little more about that.

[HiJolly]

I think that you hit the nail on the head, Hijolly. I think that some are given these gifts.....and in my experience, there was a need or circumstance that preceded the manifestation. I have not been blessed with such a thing. But then again, I don't know if I have ever been in a position where such a gift was necessary. I don't know much about the early church and the practices in RS. I suppose I would like to know a little more about that.

The first 3 presidents of the R.S. were: 1) 1842—1844 Emma Hale Smith

2) 1866—1887 Eliza R. Snow and 3) 1888—1901 Zina D. H. Young.

These were all wives of Joseph Smith. Zina was one of those that spoke in tongues on a consistent, regular basis. I suspect that if bytor2112 heard HER speak in tongues, it would feel A-OK.

While Compton's book "In Sacred Lonliness" is primarily about Joseph's polygamy and polyandry, the biographies of the wives include much about the speaking in tongues I have mentioned. It's a tough (ie, most members wouldn't consider it 'faith promoting') book because of Brother Compton's dislike of polygamy, but still is a very good book. Ya just have to remember that his editorial comments are his own opinion, not history.

HiJolly

[prisonchaplain]

I have spent lots of time in drawn out, heart felt prayer, petitioning my Father in Heaven for wisdom, knowledge....forgivness, etc. I have spent a great deal of time in the Temple and never once have I been overcome by the Spirit and spoke in tongues. Why would the Lord manifest himelf in this way? What about those who pray about the BOM or the church and don't recieve an answer. I can't believe that these kind of occurences are from God.

Maybe that's the point...that God chooses to manifest himself in a way that removes all control...that requires the believer to rendor his most powerful muscle--the tongue--to the Spirit. You ask investigators, non-LDS Christians, and Antis why they can't feel the Spirit when they pray about the Book of Mormon...well, why can't you believe that at least some of the 500 million Pentecostals and Charismatics in the world have been blessed from an actual experience with God? If you believe that there is good in other religions, just not the fullness, how could you possibly believe that every one of us half billion have either been deceived by a demonic influence, or have engaged in spiritual deception by calling gibberish "the tongues of angels?"

[bytor2112]

Ok...so what sets Pentacostals and Charismatics apart from Baptists or Lutherans? Is it the manner in which they pray or worship? What is it that invites the "tongue of Angels" to the Pentacotals and Charasmatics? If it is indeed from God, then does the believer have to render there tongue or are they overcome by this experience of God? I didn't suggest demonic influences, I just said that I didn't believe the experience is from God. Maybe some type of religious fervor or hysteria....I dunno. Just trying to understand PC....just trying to understand. There are a few churches here where I live that teach it's members how to speak in tongues.

[prisonchaplain]

Ok...so what sets Pentacostals and Charismatics apart from Baptists or Lutherans?

Pentecostals are the restorationists that studied the Book of Acts, and the first letter to the Corinthians and asked, "Why not us? Why not today?" Finding no good answer, the prayed, and God sent his Spirit, and the began to experience tongues, interpretations, and prophecy. The churches of the day rejected these experiences, and they were put out. So, they formed their own churches. All this happened in the early 20th century. Some fifty years later, Lutherans, Baptists, Episcopaleans, even Catholics took another look and said, "Us too!" And yes, they too received the Spirit, and had these experiences. However, they were not kicked out of their churches, and are now referred to as Charismatics. So...what sets us apart...we asked for the Spirit and He came.

If it is indeed from God, then does the believer have to render there tongue or are they overcome by this experience of God?

The tongue must be rendored. Nobody has to speak in tongues, or give a prophetic word. People will talk of being overcome, but, in reality, they submitted to God's Spirit.

I didn't suggest demonic influences, I just said that I didn't believe the experience is from God. Maybe some type of religious fervor or hysteria....I dunno. Just trying to understand PC....just trying to understand. There are a few churches here where I live that teach it's members how to speak in tongues.

OK...so, you go with my 2nd suggestion...human conjuring. I suppose I should be relieved. Anyway...I'm deadset against "teaching tongues." I've seen it, and know it for what it is...a foolhardy attempt to help God help his people. A fair number of pentecostal young people have had their walk seriously damaged by such tactics. They know what they are "learning" is not of the Spirit, and become very skeptical in the process. However, the error here is not with the doctrine or the Spirit, but with leaders who give into such approaches.

[bytor2112]

PC....I always enjoy your posts and meant no disrespect to you or your beliefs. So, how is one taught to speak in tongues? I am glad you are dead set against it....but what is the process they use? May I ask... and if this is to personal or sacred I totally understand, have you ever spoken in tongues?

My initial question is to determine why this phenomena occurs....primarily in these type of churches. I have read other posts suggesting that it occurs within the LDS church......if it does I have never seen it or heard of it and it is certainly not something that is taught with regard to the meaning of the gift of tongues.

I have seen it first hand in Pentecostal churches.....seen people running around the building, falling on the floor, etc. I have seen TV preachers touch someone on the forehead and they immediately fall to the floor and appear to overcome by some presence. I personally believe that these TV evangelists are putting on a show.......using flamboyant excitement, passed of as spiritual experience. Rod Parsley comes to mind, Creflo Dollar Bennie Hihn and others who either speak what is described as tongues or talk about it.

Thanks for your explanation regarding the Pentecostal faith.... I was really wondering why it is not found in the Baptist, Lutheran, Methodist, etc. Why wouldn't God manifest himself in the same manner in order to prevent confusion. Isn't there enough confusion already?

[Misshalfway]

So PC, if someone is a member of your faith and doesn't experience the speaking in tongues, how does the church view this????

And it is my understanding that there must be an interpretation to any manifestation. Do you believe the same is true?

And one final question, what is the purpose of speaking in tongues if no one understands the message.....not the person speaking or the congregation witnessing it??

And I don't quite understand the idea that those two groups are the only ones blessed simply because they asked for it. Something seems off to me about that. Just can't put my finger on it.

Hmmm......I guess it is because I believe that every blessing given under heaven is given BECAUSE of obedience to the truth required for that blessing. I may pray for tongues and my Father in heaven may not bless me with such because it isn't expedient for me. It is all wisdom in him.

Edited August 6, 2008 by Misshalfway

[tammyi]

speaking in tongues is a gift of God. It's to move God's kindgom forward. Not for show.

Its sad how people will use things of God for show don't to do his will.

[prisonchaplain]

PC....I always enjoy your posts and meant no disrespect to you or your beliefs.

Thank you, and I understand. It would be odd for God to truly bestow such a moving gift upon Christians who were not part of the Restoration, and then not grant it to most who are. So, you wonder if God is in it or not.

So, how is one taught to speak in tongues? I am glad you are dead set against it....but what is the process they use? May I ask... and if this is to personal or sacred I totally understand,

"Teaching tongues" is not sacred. It is not Scriptural. It is, imho, a carnal attempt to guide Christians into the baptism in the Holy Spirit, accompanied by speaking in tongues. The problem is that the Holy Spirit needs no help in bestowing this gift, and the "guiding" often leads to coaching gibberish. The counselor will do silly things like telling the seeker to just hum, then tap the chin repeatedly and proclaim, "You're getting it, now just let the Spirit take over!" Having explained this abberation, I'll tell you that it is not the norm, and that it probably does more to delay people from receiving the true gift, than to help them.

have you ever spoken in tongues?

Yes, and I still do regularly, when I wish to praise God, or, after I've exhausted what I want to pray in English.

My initial question is to determine why this phenomena occurs....primarily in these type of churches.

With Pentecostals, the belief is that tongues are the first physical sign that one has been baptized in the Holy Spirit. Further, that this baptism occurs SUBSEQUENT to conversion, and often is the result of waiting on God. Why God chose this sign? People speculate, but God knows. It's just that when we read through the Book of Acts, it is the one constant. In one episode we're told the Jews finally accepted that Gentiles could receive the Holy Spirit, "because they spoke in tongues just as we did."

I have read other posts suggesting that it occurs within the LDS church......if it does I have never seen it or heard of it and it is certainly not something that is taught with regard to the meaning of the gift of tongues.

Most LDS tell me that the gift of tongues is sometimes experienced by missionaries as a supernatural ability to communicate in a foreign language.

I have seen it first hand in Pentecostal churches.....seen people running around the building, falling on the floor, etc. I have seen TV preachers touch someone on the forehead and they immediately fall to the floor and appear to overcome by some presence. I personally believe that these TV evangelists are putting on a show.......using flamboyant excitement, passed of as spiritual experience. Rod Parsley comes to mind, Creflo Dollar Bennie Hihn and others who either speak what is described as tongues or talk about it.

I'm well aware that many Christians find much of pentecostalism--especially the TV variety--to be chaotic, unruly, emotional, and celebrity-driven. I only suggest that God does want to touch our emotions, that he is not afraid of robust worship, and that whether or not the TV evangelist is sincere not is really a matter that God is capable of dealing with. I'm not comfortable with all of them either...but I do believe that most of the people are having genuine, powerful experiences with God.

Thanks for your explanation regarding the Pentecostal faith.... I was really wondering why it is not found in the Baptist, Lutheran, Methodist, etc. Why wouldn't God manifest himself in the same manner in order to prevent confusion. Isn't there enough confusion already?

And again...it is found in some non-pentecostal churches. Usually, they make room for it through special "Charismatic Renewal" meetings. Catholics, Lutherans, Methodists, and Episcopaleans in particular, have vibrant movements. That's why over 500 million Christians now claim Pentecostal or Charismatic practice.

[Misshalfway]

I was also pondering, PC, when you said the "why not now, why not us?" Comment.

I suppose in some ways I really agree with this because in our BofM we are admonished to understand that the miracles of God have not ceased. They, all of them (gifts of God, visions, angels, healings, etc) are as real today as in any other time in history. It is clearly an issue of faith as to whether or not these blessings come. They will and do follow the faithful.

My understanding from the Bofm and the words of Paul that their are many gifts of God and not all of us will be blessed with the same gifts....but that we will be blessed as a group by the collective gifts of all. So I may say, "why not me", and God will have to determine the answer to that question.

I find it also interesting that the gift of tongues is so prized among evangelicals and others....yet the idea of a farm boy seeing God is somehow blasphemous and must either be a lie or something created by Satan. It seems interesting to me that these groups pick and choose which miracles to validate. I am not sure by what method those are chosen. But it still seems a point of biblical interest to me.

[Misshalfway]

With Pentecostals, the belief is that tongues are the first physical sign that one has been baptized in the Holy Spirit.

Where/what is the scriptural basis for this belief?

[Misshalfway]

Sorry...PC.....I have so many questions. I hope you will forgive me.

If you pray in tongues.....is this when you are alone or in your church meetings? And do you understand what you are saying? And do you control what is said and if so, how do you control what is said if you don't know what you are saying?

I guess my understanding of the gift is that a person would be used as a vessel or tool for God to show his power thru. I find it interesting that you feel the ability to spontaneously command this gift. And I am still trying to see the purpose in such communications with God. Why would God need you to speak in an unknown tongue to him when he understands all? Especially if you aren't made aware of any interpretation.

I suppose I am trying to see what biblical evidence there is that the prophets used the gift this way other than the day of pentecost because it was clear that there was a great need for such a gift and it was also clear that their was interpretation as part of the miracle. I am also trying to understand why it is attached to conversion. Not that it couldn't or wouldn't happen, just the idea that it should.

Ok and just one more thing. If God does want to "touch our emotions" as you say, why do LDS people get so much heat for asking investigators how they "feel" inside to determine if they are indeed feeling the spirit?

Edited August 6, 2008 by Misshalfway