susieSA Posted August 22, 2008 Report Share Posted August 22, 2008 Heavy metal band Slipknot is blamed for inspiring schoolboy to stab classmate to death | Mail Online Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hemidakota Posted August 22, 2008 Report Share Posted August 22, 2008 Let see..."Witnesses claim the attacker was high on drugs and wearing a face mask similar to that sported by Joey Jordison, Slipknot’s drummer." The key here is DRUG USAGE. Now we want to blame for this kid problems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
susieSA Posted August 22, 2008 Author Report Share Posted August 22, 2008 Would you like to read more??? Google search krugersdorp stabbing..... Sorry, but this is really close to home for me... Literally a few kms from where I live... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest tomk Posted August 22, 2008 Report Share Posted August 22, 2008 I have a problem with "SO and SO inspired SUCH and SUCH" Don't people have a mind of their own? Are we suggesting that we can't think for OURSELVES and take responsibility for OUR OWN actions? Sheesh. It is always somebody ELSE'S fault in our society. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hemidakota Posted August 22, 2008 Report Share Posted August 22, 2008 (edited) http://news.google.com/news?imgefp=jdBAWneKFzEJ&imgurl=www.news24.com/Images/Photos/2008082008432519_stephan220.jpgNews24'Now what, sir?'Independent Online, South Africa - Aug 18, 2008A school boy stabbed a fellow pupil to death with a sword at the Nic Diederichs technical high school in Krugersdorp on Monday morning, Johannesburg police ...School violence causes principals to rethink safety measures The Herald Eastern Cape School slaughter The Times Schoolboy ‘ninja’ kills fellow pupil in bloody spree Dispatch Online Sword boy: 'I wanted to stop, but couldn't'Independent Online, South Africa - Aug 21, 2008... allegedly stabbed 16-year-old Jacques Pretorius to death with a Samurai sword at the Nic Diederichs Technical High School in Krugersdorp on Monday. ...http://news.google.com/news?imgefp=l6F6XFK4iEsJ&imgurl=www.telegraph.co.uk/telegraph/multimedia/archive/00793/460-slipnot_793431c.jpgTelegraph.co.ukFriends hear 'today is the day'Independent Online, South Africa - Aug 18, 2008In an apparent Satanic ritual, a Krugersdorp matriculant "with mad eyes" arrived at school on Monday with several Ninja swords and allegedly killed one boy ...Slipknot: Don’t blame usThe Times, South Africa - Aug 19, 2008THE American band said to have inspired the Krugersdorp schoolboy killer has heard about what he did, but wants nothing to do with the case. ...http://news.google.com/news?imgefp=LuO37I2_0ccJ&imgurl=www.news24.com/Images/Photos/2008082012221720_max220.jpgNews24No one took ‘slasher’ seriouslyDispatch Online, South Africa - Aug 20, 2008FRIENDS of Morné Harmse, accused of being the Krugersdorp school slasher, did not take his talk of violence seriously. “I feel we overlooked something,” ...Relief as charges withdrawn News24 ‘Sword killer’ appears in court The Times Teen held for firearm possessionIndependent Online, South Africa - Aug 20, 2008... comes a day after a Krugersdorp high school pupil went on the rampage cutting a fellow pupil's throat before slashing and stabbing another pupil and two ...Soweto schoolboy arrested with gunThe Times, South Africa - 5 hours agoHarmse’s case of murder and three of attempted murder was postponed on Wednesday by the Krugersdorp Magistrate’s Court. He would remain in custody until his ...Wake up - religious bodyIndependent Online, South Africa - Aug 20, 2008It claimed that Satanism played a role in the most recent killing, of a pupil at a Krugersdorp school on Monday. "Together we can fight Satanism and other ...Let those without sin, cast the first stoneThought Leader, South Africa - 13 hours agoTwo non-lecturing staff members at the school, Samson Mamela and Joseph Kodeseng, were stabbed and had to be taken to hospital. After this, Harmse put the ...More acts of violence reported at schoolsSowetan, South Africa - Aug 19, 2008While South African schools were recovering from the sword-slaying incident at a Krugersdorp high school, three more incidents of violence have been Edited August 22, 2008 by Hemidakota Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fiannan Posted August 22, 2008 Report Share Posted August 22, 2008 (edited) I am of a mixed opinion on these kinds of incidents. Do I believe music can affect behavior? Can it cause people to entertain activities they might not have grown up thinking was right? I think so. Rap music has been linked to earlier sexual experimentation within its listening audience. Of course, not everyone who listens to country music drinks and has affairs though. So can music affect people? Certainly. Can most people listen to groups and resist the message? Again, yes. But some, maybe a lot, of people are influenced by the music they listen to and that I don't believe can be dismissed. Edited August 23, 2008 by Heather removed link Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RachelleDrew Posted August 22, 2008 Report Share Posted August 22, 2008 If people are so easily influenced by the music they listen to that they would stab another person over it then there are bigger issues there and they would have more than likely done it anyway. Besides, the media is real quick to jump on the blame bandwagon, and more often than not are incorrect. Remember when Columbine happened, and everyone thought it was because of Marilyn Manson? The media feds us all that crap for years, even after it was revealed that Harris and Klebold didn't even like his music to begin with. In fact, Eric Harris wrote on many of his online blogs that he thought Manson was a "fag". But no, the blame can't ever be on the person wielding the weapon, or the parents who raised them. It's much easier to scare the country into thinking some scary rockstar in a mask is the reason why our kids are screwed up. Can people just one time take responsibility on themselves? Just once? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
susieSA Posted August 22, 2008 Author Report Share Posted August 22, 2008 If people are so easily influenced by the music they listen to that they would stab another person over it then there are bigger issues there and they would have more than likely done it anyway.Besides, the media is real quick to jump on the blame bandwagon, and more often than not are incorrect. Remember when Columbine happened, and everyone thought it was because of Marilyn Manson? The media feds us all that crap for years, even after it was revealed that Harris and Klebold didn't even like his music to begin with. In fact, Eric Harris wrote on many of his online blogs that he thought Manson was a "fag".But no, the blame can't ever be on the person wielding the weapon, or the parents who raised them. It's much easier to scare the country into thinking some scary rockstar in a mask is the reason why our kids are screwed up. Can people just one time take responsibility on themselves? Just once?In THIS specific case it was not ONLY the music that he listened to....He was wearing a mask identical to that of one of the band members... The members of this heavy metal band claim that these masks put them into an animal like trance.... etc etcAlso, there were a few other things mentioned.... I guess I havn't only been reading about this one in the newspapers or online.... I have seen it on the news... As I said.. this one is VERY close to home for me.. .Literally...Speaking of the parents, the mother of this boy has only spoken out for the first time a day ago.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gwen Posted August 22, 2008 Report Share Posted August 22, 2008 I have a problem with "SO and SO inspired SUCH and SUCH"Don't people have a mind of their own?Are we suggesting that we can't think for OURSELVES and take responsibility for OUR OWN actions?Sheesh. It is always somebody ELSE'S fault in our society.i don't think we can "blame" the band for the kid's choice. however the words "influence" and "inspire" are more than appropriate. the things we read, listen to, watch, think about, etc to effect who we are. this kind of stuff can indeed influence and inspire a person to do bad. we also know that masks in general effect us, there is a reason the church has a policy against them during halloween. so take a kid that's thoughts are off track from listening to and thinking about stuff like this, put a mask on him, throw in a few drugs and yes i can see how he got there. all of which are choices the kid made. the kid is ultimately responsible, but the band does have influence and does inspire. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fiannan Posted August 22, 2008 Report Share Posted August 22, 2008 (edited) I noticed my post had been edited -- a link to a very popular current song and music video. There was no nudity or profanity but yes, it did deal with the current bi-sexual craze with young women today. The reason I posted it was because my 7 year old daughter really likes the song (it has a great beat) when it comes on the radio. I won't argue the point of removing a link, but it actually makes my point -- what young people are viewing today on MTV and listening to on the radio should give peopel cause for concern. One show on MTV people might not know about deals with a woman who is given a group of guys and a group of girls and in the end she has to pick one to see if a relationship can develop. Music and entertainment are powerful mediums and they do affect us. You might take time and check into the stuff aimed at your kids now. And RachelleDrew I actually agree with your take on personal responsibility in the long run though. Yes, most of the kids who go on school shooting rampages were bullied, and some of the blame for shootings rests with the US educational system and individual administrators who couldn't care less about the "outsider" kids getting bashed every day, but yes, ultimately the person who does the act has to face responsibility. And also, you are correct that the Columbine guys did not listen to Manson but the groups they wree in were unfamiliar with the US media market so they had to find someone to blame for influencing them. Edited August 22, 2008 by Fiannan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
susieSA Posted August 22, 2008 Author Report Share Posted August 22, 2008 The OP has nothing to do with "the current bi-sexual craze"... Also, this crime did not happen in the USA so blaming US educational systems in this case doesn't really work.... JMHO... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fiannan Posted August 22, 2008 Report Share Posted August 22, 2008 The OP has nothing to do with "the current bi-sexual craze"...Also, this crime did not happen in the USA so blaming US educational systems in this case doesn't really work....JMHO... The group mentioned has an international fan base, does it not? And the ultimate topic is (correct me if I am wrong) the influence music has on young people -- so if that is the case then that would encompass the entire psychological impact of the music industry as well as all the message genres that might be questionable.As for the educational system I was supporting the post by RachelleDrew who accurately pointed out that acts of violence in schools today are generally far more complex than what the infotainment/news industry generally presents. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
susieSA Posted August 22, 2008 Author Report Share Posted August 22, 2008 The group mentioned has an international fan base, does it not? And the ultimate topic is (correct me if I am wrong) the influence music has on young people -- so if that is the case then that would encompass the entire psychological impact of the music industry as well as all the message genres that might be questionable.As for the educational system I was supporting the post by RachelleDrew who accurately pointed out that acts of violence in schools today are generally far more complex than what the infotainment/news industry generally presents.Oh just forget it then...I do NOT have dumb written on my head thank you very much... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest tomk Posted August 23, 2008 Report Share Posted August 23, 2008 i don't think we can "blame" the band for the kid's choice. however the words "influence" and "inspire" are more than appropriate. the things we read, listen to, watch, think about, etc to effect who we are. this kind of stuff can indeed influence and inspire a person to do bad. we also know that masks in general effect us, there is a reason the church has a policy against them during halloween. so take a kid that's thoughts are off track from listening to and thinking about stuff like this, put a mask on him, throw in a few drugs and yes i can see how he got there. all of which are choices the kid made. the kid is ultimately responsible, but the band does have influence and does inspire. Most definitely. What we spend our time "hanging around" certainly does INFLUENCE us. My point is that being INFLUENCED or INSPIRED does not constitute LACK OF AGENCY. We always have choice, and we must take responsibility for our actions.Pay attention to how things are influencing or inspiring you. Pay attention to your feelings. Don't ignore them, don't suppress them. Get them out in HEALTHY ways. Prayer often helps me when I am down or blue or considering a course of action I don't feel good about. Prayer brings the clarity of a God to my mind. I need that kind of clarity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VisionOfLehi Posted August 23, 2008 Report Share Posted August 23, 2008 Problem: Satan blamed for inspiring schoolboy stabbing. Solution: World needs to start teaching and using morals and treating everyone like a person. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VisionOfLehi Posted August 23, 2008 Report Share Posted August 23, 2008 Oh... I just remembered. Slipknot is from Iowa, I believe. And I used to play this online game with one of the members. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest GhostRider Posted August 24, 2008 Report Share Posted August 24, 2008 here is the thing....this hits close to home for me too in a way.. If there is blame...like columbine...i place it on the parents for letting the kids have access to the music, the drugs AND the swords. I am not a parent but am an uncle to 2 young children that I love dearly. And my whole family watches what they are doing. from video games to the t.v.. why? to make sure that nothing that is harmful is shown. We can blame whoever we want when tragedeis like this happens. But in my opinion we need to blame the parents and family memebers of these kids. Most parents do not have a clue what is going on with their teenagers or just do not care. ok...i will get off my soap box Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RachelleDrew Posted September 1, 2008 Report Share Posted September 1, 2008 And RachelleDrew I actually agree with your take on personal responsibility in the long run though. Yes, most of the kids who go on school shooting rampages were bullied, and some of the blame for shootings rests with the US educational system and individual administrators who couldn't care less about the "outsider" kids getting bashed every day, but yes, ultimately the person who does the act has to face responsibility. And also, you are correct that the Columbine guys did not listen to Manson but the groups they wree in were unfamiliar with the US media market so they had to find someone to blame for influencing them.I believe they were into KMFDM, but I don't remember for sure. But yeah, it's not as easy to put Sacha, or even Tim Skold for that matter, on the cover of an American magazine because most people in the US don't know who they are. There is always a level of influence, this is true. But we don't cut slack to people who molest children, even though there is a fair chance they were molested themselves as a kid. In my opinion, several things need to be done, and banishing metal bands is not one of those things. I know that for me growing up, music was an outlet that actually kept me from committing a violent act like this.FIRST OF ALL, teach your children some fricken' compassion. Kids are brutal, and a lot of adults who are aware of it turn a blind eye to it. I know very few people who can stand being tormented day in and day out without lashing out somehow.Oh, here's one; PAY ATTENTION TO YOUR KIDS. I don't understand how parents could not notice that their kid is all of a sudden reading "The Anarchist Cookbook" like it's the bible and stowing away explosives and guns in their bedroom. On another note, has our educational system gone so far down the drain that kids cannot recognize the basic symbolism and satire that exists in most music? It's art, not reality. I wasn't the brightest crayon in the box at 16 years old, but even I knew that lyrics represented fantasy, not the world I was actually living in and thus couldn't be taken seriously. I'm trying to think of what was popular when I was a kid...Limp Bizkit? Lol, the only person their music inspired me to kill was Fred Durst for being such a tool and a bad musician. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RachelleDrew Posted September 1, 2008 Report Share Posted September 1, 2008 Oh... I just remembered. Slipknot is from Iowa, I believe. And I used to play this online game with one of the members.Nuh, uh. Seriously? What game, and which one? I guess I thought you were a lot younger with that...Not that you are old or anything.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dazed-and-confused Posted September 2, 2008 Report Share Posted September 2, 2008 i have to agree with ghostrider....parents seem to be too busy in many cases to be involved with their children .....busy in whatever way.....there are many......but i also agree that as a parent can teach and guide their children in love and respect.....their absence (or lack of involvement) and lack of these qualities within themselves will teach them (their children) other things...either by example or the lack thereof....and while it hurts and is scarey.....dont the scriptures foretell these things happening?....so why are we surprised....personally, being a convert at the age of 46, being active and then innactive...and just recently returned.....as LDS members we might see the world for what it is and follow our path to HF as best we can..accept HIS grace and prey for those in so much turmoil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WANDERER Posted September 2, 2008 Report Share Posted September 2, 2008 LOL at preying for people in turmoil ; ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dazed-and-confused Posted September 2, 2008 Report Share Posted September 2, 2008 LOL...thanks wanderer...yep ..pretty bad typo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fiannan Posted September 2, 2008 Report Share Posted September 2, 2008 I believe they were into KMFDM, but I don't remember for sure. But yeah, it's not as easy to put Sacha, or even Tim Skold for that matter, on the cover of an American magazine because most people in the US don't know who they are. There is always a level of influence, this is true. But we don't cut slack to people who molest children, even though there is a fair chance they were molested themselves as a kid. In my opinion, several things need to be done, and banishing metal bands is not one of those things. I know that for me growing up, music was an outlet that actually kept me from committing a violent act like this.FIRST OF ALL, teach your children some fricken' compassion. Kids are brutal, and a lot of adults who are aware of it turn a blind eye to it. I know very few people who can stand being tormented day in and day out without lashing out somehow.Oh, here's one; PAY ATTENTION TO YOUR KIDS. I don't understand how parents could not notice that their kid is all of a sudden reading "The Anarchist Cookbook" like it's the bible and stowing away explosives and guns in their bedroom. On another note, has our educational system gone so far down the drain that kids cannot recognize the basic symbolism and satire that exists in most music? It's art, not reality. I wasn't the brightest crayon in the box at 16 years old, but even I knew that lyrics represented fantasy, not the world I was actually living in and thus couldn't be taken seriously. I'm trying to think of what was popular when I was a kid...Limp Bizkit? Lol, the only person their music inspired me to kill was Fred Durst for being such a tool and a bad musician. Thumbs up! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
debi56 Posted September 30, 2008 Report Share Posted September 30, 2008 I believe people are responsible for their own actions but I also feel that the entertainment business has a responsibility to the people that listen to them. I know that sex, drugs, crime etc. sells for people but isn't this also part of the reason we aren't supposed to watch R- rated movies? I am sure that boy was already disturbed and should not be able to use a scapegoat but at the same time, these idiots that create the music and movies need to think about what kind of an influence they have on our youth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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