Spying on our kids

[RainofGold]

^_^ Edited October 1, 2008 by RainofGold

[VisionOfLehi]

How old is she?

Do you have any reason to believe what she is texting may not be safe?

Is she secretive about it?

Do you record her phone calls? Do you read her private diary? Do you stalk her to eavesdrop when she's talking to her friends?

If you don't have any reason to suspect she might be doing something dangerous or unsafe, then I would say yes, it's too far.

My ex-gf's parents read some of our IM conversation for a short while in a control-assertion attempt gone wrong. That didn't really fly. Caused more strife than anything, and they ended up realizing it was crossing the line.

[thejason]

Would this be consider going too far?

Absolutely not. Children are not entitled to privacy when they are living in my house, especially if I'm paying the bill. If I suspect my children are doing something they shouldn't I would employ any means necessary to find out. Call it spying, invasion of privacy, or whatever else. No good parent can turn a blind eye to the actions of their children.

[Rico]

I don't think the question should be if you should be reading them or not. The question should be, does she have a need to have a cellphone? Does she have a need to be able to text? Is she crossing boundaries that you have set?

If you feel comfortable with her having the cellphone and being allowed to text whomever she wishes whenever she wishes, then you shouldn't be concerned whether you need to be able to read them or not.

If you don't feel comfortable with her having the cellphone and/or being allowed to text whomever she wishes whenever she wishes, then maybe you need to set appropriate boundaries.

If you have appropriate boundaries set, then the only thing you need to be concerned with is if she is crossing the boundaries or not.

Think about the responses you would get if you said: "I believe that my daughter is crossing boundaries that I have set concerning her use of the cellphone. Do you think it's ok for me to read my daughter's text messages?"

[VisionOfLehi]

Absolutely not. Children are not entitled to privacy when they are living in my house, especially if I'm paying the bill. If I suspect my children are doing something they shouldn't I would employ any means necessary to find out. Call it spying, invasion of privacy, or whatever else. No good parent can turn a blind eye to the actions of their children.

And if you don't suspect?

That's the question.

Is it okay to infiltrate every aspect of your child's life just because?

No. It's not okay. I don't even think it's healthy.

[Rico]

VOL: You are young. I used to think exactly like you do.

It's not about paying the bills and getting the privilege of doing whatever you want to do. It's about setting boundaries(ie rules). Parents need to be setting boundaries.

Now think about a teenage girl caught in a bedroom with a boy. Parents find out, freak out and get very angry. The girl explains that she was doing nothing wrong and just studying. She says the parents must be unreasonable and vocalizes that they don't trust her. The parents get angry because they just don't know what happened. Can they trust their daughter?

This is why boundaries are important. Imagine the parents sitting down with her and making a rule that she isn't allowed to be in a room alone with boys. If she is caught in a room with a boy then the parents can discipline her not for being alone with a boy in the room, but for crossing one of the boundaries set. It doesn't matter what was done in the room or whether she is trusted or not, simply that she was disobedient.

In the case of the OP, my daughter wouldn't be given a phone in the first place, but I did give her one, then my rule would be that she is not allowed to use for anything but calling her parents. I'd have no problem then requesting the text messages sent because any text message sent to a friend would be a case of her being disobedient. It wouldn't matter what was on them, just that she was disobedient.

[WANDERER]

Oh dear...I can just see teens who have a high tech ability scrutinising their own parents in the same way (after all caring for family members in such a way has been condoned): emails/web histories/undeleted text messages on cell phones...a random accidental click on a not so good website might turn into a bit of a dramatic social fiasco ...a friend's confidence may be jeopardised...I can think of some good legal reasons for not teaching this behaviour to teens.

Of course there's always the scenario of adult children caring for their own children and later for their aged parents ...it sets up some odd family patterns of behaviour.

If a teen is high risk...perhaps...but it might not have the best of outcomes.

[puf_the_majic_dragon]

The teenage years are really difficult. This is a period where people are developing greater independence and self-reliance. But at the same time it's a time where some of the greatest temptations and difficulties (especiall socially) arise to cause trouble.

Teenagers need a great deal of trust placed in them in order to help them mature into responsible adults. But when that trust is betrayed, appropriate disciplinary action needs to be taken to prevent one mistake from blowing up. The real question, then, is how closely do you monitor your teen's behavior - where do you draw the line between trust and necessary oversight?

Personally, I lean towards trust. Some people lean towards oversight. I don't think there's any "right" or "wrong" way to go about it, just what you feel is best. I, for one, would not be opposed to talking to my teen about the subject and see what they feel is appropriate. Of course, I'm an idealist, and I don't have kids yet so this is all just theory and conjecture from my own teenage experience

[Hemidakota]

I was texting my teen daughter while waiting in the dentist office when the women next to me very casually informed that her best friend called her cell phone company and requested a copy of all the texts made by teenage daughter. I've never heard that this could be done, but even if it was possible would I want to spy on my daughter? Would this be consider going too far?

Listen to the Spirit concerning your daughters privacy vice what the world may tell what is appropriate.

[rameumptom]

Never too young to spy on your children. Just ensure you let your child know that you reserve the right as parent to review their text messages, just as you reserve the right to review what they are doing on the Internet, etc.

As it is, I personally do not believe the vast majority of kids need a cell phone, and it only opens the door for serious problems later on. Time and again, I've seen parents struggle with their children after having given them too much freedom and opportunity, which they are not ready to handle. Would you allow your teenager to roam the bars or streets without guidance and constant watching? Then why allow unfettered info come their way via a cell phone? You do not know who is texting them, or what is being suggested/said.

[lilered]

If I may, let me share a personal story with you. Several years ago, our local middle school sponsored a lecture "Kids on Drugs". We decided to attend to increase our non-existent knowledge about drug use. One of the speakers related his expierece which included losing a son to drugs (he eventually died from a drug overdose). Anyway, to make a long story short. He indicated that the average person is using drugs two years before their loved ones even suspect they are. He further stated that if any of us wanted to know whether or not our children were using drugs to go home and search their room without their knowledge (pick a time when they were at school). He indicated that kids believe their room is theirs and therefore private.

Well, guess what? My wife did this the next day while our son ( the sport star) was at school. She found some marijuana etc.. Of course, our son, when confronted that night, denied it was his. He was just storing it for his buddy. Yeah right.

The story has a happy ending, but the truth sometimes hurts. My view is that if you truly want to knwo what your kids are upto or into, then you need to monitor them. That doesn't mean they need to know it.

The second thing though that one needs to think about. If you find they are doing something that you do not approve of. What are you prepared or going to do about it? You need to think these steps thru very carefully beforehand. In othe words. Make sure you know which way the horse is going to run, before you spur him.

[thejason]

And if you don't suspect?

That's the question.

Is it okay to infiltrate every aspect of your child's life just because?

No. It's not okay. I don't even think it's healthy.

Within reason, of course. Bottom line, however, is that they are my kids living in my house using my cell phone. Their agency is limited.

[MorningStar]

Our stake president said we can't afford to think, "My child would never do that!" because so many kids in our stake our doing things their parents didn't think they were capable of. He said there are teens in our stake who have even taken the morning after pill.

I'll do what I have to to protect my kids. If they are endangering themselves, I will need to find out and if they are mad, I don't care. Our bishop said that he discovered his daughter has a myspace account and has given way too much information about herself including her address. This isn't just a problem with stalkers, but potential employers search people online now to see if they have a myspace and what kind of person you are. Do something stupid, that could follow you around for a long time.

Of course, I will teach my kids about protecting themselves online, but I will also tell them if I suspect anything is going wrong, I will check into it. I saw this horrible story on PBS about a father who had no idea his son was being cyberbullied and he ended up killing himself. He wished he had checked up on him, but he didn't discover what went wrong until after the fact, meeting a boy who actually encouraged him to go through with it.

[MorningStar]

If I may, let me share a personal story with you. Several years ago, our local middle school sponsored a lecture "Kids on Drugs". We decided to attend to increase our non-existent knowledge about drug use. One of the speakers related his expierece which included losing a son to drugs (he eventually died from a drug overdose). Anyway, to make a long story short. He indicated that the average person is using drugs two years before their loved ones even suspect they are. He further stated that if any of us wanted to know whether or not our children were using drugs to go home and search their room without their knowledge (pick a time when they were at school). He indicated that kids believe their room is theirs and therefore private.

Well, guess what? My wife did this the next day while our son ( the sport star) was at school. She found some marijuana etc.. Of course, our son, when confronted that night, denied it was his. He was just storing it for his buddy. Yeah right.

The story has a happy ending, but the truth sometimes hurts. My view is that if you truly want to knwo what your kids are upto or into, then you need to monitor them. That doesn't mean they need to know it.

The second thing though that one needs to think about. If you find they are doing something that you do not approve of. What are you prepared or going to do about it? You need to think these steps thru very carefully beforehand. In othe words. Make sure you know which way the horse is going to run, before you spur him.

Sounds like you guys made the right decision! Good for you. :) When I was in high school, I friend of mine started doing drugs and he told me he was so depressed, he was going to "drop acid until his brain exploded". I had no problem telling someone because I didn't want him to die. But unfortunately by the time his parents caught wind, they searched his room and he had all his stuff with him. He was laughing about it that they questioned him and couldn't find anything. As far as I know, he's still alive, but I watched him grow progressively dumber and waste his life.

[RainofGold]

He further stated that if any of us wanted to know whether or not our children were using drugs to go home and search their room without their knowledge (pick a time when they were at school). He indicated that kids believe their room is theirs and therefore private.

Both of my kids went back to school today...they are both in high school. And I just finished cleaning their room, and I go through "everything". I never thought of finding anything in their rooms and so far so good. My kids love it when they come home to a very clean room

and don't complain that I go through their things. But of course I never mention that I'm searching for anything inappropriate that they might have. They both are good kids but I'm not in denial to think that they are incapable of doing anything wrong.

[MormonGirl28]

I am a 17 year old teenager and I don't hide anything from my parents. They trust me because I've never given them a reason not to. I have a myspace account but my mom said that the only way I could have one is if I would give her the password so she could check on it from time to time. I really didn't mind and even if I did I know my mom wouldn't let me have one with out going by her rules.

Sometimes I think that my parents are to nosy, wanting to know everything about my life. Other times I know that if they check on me and never find anything bad they be able to trust me more.

[checkerboy]

I think setting boundries is the most practical approach. If you are constantly checking up on your kid they are gonna start resenting you and might just do something to give you a reason to not trust them. With my sons even though they are young still I have already instilled in them a knowledge of the law of consequences. My oldest son knows that he is free to make his own choices but he has to live with the consequences of those choices. I will trust him until he proves to me that he is untrustworthy. If I was to start snooping around that would make him think I didn't trust him.

So instead what I have started doing now when he is only 7 is talking to him about things in his life, letting him know that he can talk to me and when I do discover that maybe he has lied to me making sure the punishment fits so that he knows that even if he screws up he is not gonna be nailed to the wall so to speak. That way hopefully when he is older he will know that I trust him and if he does mess up he will have to face the consequences of his actions and that is generally punishment enough.

[Palerider]

I am proud to wear the hat as a nosy Parent.....you got to be invovled and ask lots of questions and listen.

[puf_the_majic_dragon]

I think setting boundries is the most practical approach. If you are constantly checking up on your kid they are gonna start resenting you and might just do something to give you a reason to not trust them.

Exactly. The trust thing never happened in my family growing up, so there was never any trust for me to betray. And I did a lot of stupid stuff - pornography and internet were my vices. Getting my room searched only meant that I needed better hiding places. Getting my computer confiscated meant that I plug it in where they hid it and use it there. The foundation of communication and trust was never there to deter me in the first place - and consequences only taught me not to get caught.

I applaud you for your approach with your children. That's exactly what I've wanted to do myself when I have kids. Being able to talk to my kids about their issues and temptations and troubles is far more important to me than whether or not I can download their text messages.

I am a 17 year old teenager and I don't hide anything from my parents. They trust me because I've never given them a reason not to. I have a myspace account but my mom said that the only way I could have one is if I would give her the password so she could check on it from time to time. I really didn't mind and even if I did I know my mom wouldn't let me have one with out going by her rules.

Sometimes I think that my parents are to nosy, wanting to know everything about my life. Other times I know that if they check on me and never find anything bad they be able to trust me more.

Yay! I'm glad you have that desire and that trust. Personally, tho, I'd rather be on my child's friend's list than have their password. Perhaps that's one of those levels of trust that you build up to. And yes, my dad is totally on my myspace top friends (our relationship has gotten a LOT better ).

[RainofGold]

. That way hopefully when he is older he will know that I trust him and if he does mess up he will have to face the consequences of his actions and that is generally punishment enough.

I have to agree with you on that, we trust both of our children to choose the right. They are both teenagers and they both got an iPhone for Christmas (my husbands idea) My daughter still has hers while my sons got taken away because I found out he was looking at very "inappropriate" photos on the internet. He had to face the consequences he went to talk to the bishop, repented, apologized and had to hand over his brand new iPhone to me and now his using my old one. Am I going to check on his cell phone from time to time? Of course I am because he broke that trust and now he has to earn it back.

Rain

[VisionOfLehi]

VOL: You are young. I used to think exactly like you do.

It's not about paying the bills and getting the privilege of doing whatever you want to do. It's about setting boundaries(ie rules). Parents need to be setting boundaries.

Excuse me? So, you, intentionally or not, condescend to me but provide nothing to back up the notion that my "young" opinion is inaccurate?

Reading your child's every letter/text/IM conversation is not setting boundaries, it's invading them.

You don't just out-of-the-blue start doing stuff like that. If you have reason to suspect, or if you have AGREED upon that at first, then fine.

But to just start sneaking into your child's life is setting up future trust issues, and probably means you aren't close enough to your child in the first place.

People can try to justify it all they want, but if you have to take such extremes then YOU, the parent, probably messed up a long time ago.

[lilered]

It appears that some view monitoring their children's activities either:

As an being an invasion of their privacy or their right/obligation to know what their kids are doing.

It seems to me that the bottom line of both schools of thought want to protect kids from evil. The question becomes "how to do that"?

For those that believe they have raised their children properly and that they have great kids that wouldn't do anything wrong. In my view, that is a naive approach for the following reasons. As I look back at my life's experience as well as all the kids that were my friends as associates. Most of these kids came from great LDS families, and most of us did things that we did not want our parents to find out about. While agreed, some of these things were harmless pranks, others included trying to smoke, taste booze, and even try to chew. I believe these type of experiences are part of growing up.

However, not all my LDS friends were angels. In fact, one was a Stake Presidents son and another a Bishops daughter. They definetly did things that their parents were not aware of and that would have given them cause for concern and alarm.

Incidentally, the Stake Pres. son eventually died at an early age, the Bishops daughter is on her third marriage.

My own daughter confessed several years later to trying pot once.

My only reason for posting the above is to point out that it is normal for kids to do some activities that they do not want their parents to find out about.

I choose to view searching your kids room carefully once in awhile without their knowledge (under the mattress, or in their drawers, etc. as well as viewing their on-line accounts) as oen of monitoring their behavior from a distance to ensure their values and moral compass is traveling in the direction of God and if it is not, take the necessary loving steps as a parent to correct their course before it ends up in something more serious. Have you as parents ever viewed your childs MySpace page. It may surprise you (hopefully not). The same with having their passwords and periodicially checking their on line accounts. Let's face it, we as LDS parents tend to raise our kids in a very protective environment (in the world, but not of the world) and at least mine were very naive to wickedness and evil that is in the world. They can easily be influenced especially while surfing the various on-line web places that kids have access to thru the computer. For those who beleive nothing can happen to them because of the way they are raised are being a little naive. Sad but true, many a parent has lived to regret that logic.

That's my story and I am sticking to it. :^)

Edited August 26, 2008 by lilered

[Rico]

Excuse me? So, you, intentionally or not, condescend to me but provide nothing to back up the notion that my "young" opinion is inaccurate?

Your opinion is peppered by what your ex girlfriend's parents did. When I was 20, I had a similiar situation with an overbearing ex girlfriend's mother. I felt the same way you do, but now that I've got kids of my own, my opinion has changed somewhat.

Reading your child's every letter/text/IM conversation is not setting boundaries, it's invading them.

If I tell my child that I will be reading every text before I give a phone. That I will be reading every email, before I let them use the computer, and that I will read every IM, before I left them use the computer, then they understand the rules from the get go. They can choose to use the technology under my rules, or not. I know they sound draconian, but those are the same rules many companies have for their employees.

You don't just out-of-the-blue start doing stuff like that. If you have reason to suspect, or if you have AGREED upon that at first, then fine.

Exactly, those boundaries need to be set ahead of time. Parents should arbitrarily set rules.

But to just start sneaking into your child's life is setting up future trust issues, and probably means you aren't close enough to your child in the first place.

That's where trust comes in.If you set clear boundaries and the kids cross them, then you have reason not to trust them. Nothing I have said condones sneaking. Kids need to know the boundaries up front.

People can try to justify it all they want, but if you have to take such extremes then YOU, the parent, probably messed up a long time ago.

You are probably right. Imagine parents with a 16 year old girl who they give total freedom to do whatever she wants to do. They'll be the first to raise a ruckus if their daughter becomes pregnant. If you aren't setting clear boundaries and ensuring that they are being followed, then you aren't doing as good of a job as you could as a parent. And unfortunately, it's more difficult to start setting boundaries when a child is 16 than when she is 6.

[RainofGold]

Lets face, it we as LDS parents tend to raise our kids in a very protective environment (in the world, but not of the world) and at least mine were very naive to wickedness and evil that is in the world. They can easily be influenced especially while surfing the various on-line web places that kids have access to thru the computer. For those who believe nothing can happen to them because of the way they are raised are being a little naive. Sad but true, many a parent has lived to regret that logic.

That's my story and I am sticking to it. :^)

Well I guess I was a naive parent giving my son access to the computer and internet on his cell phone without thinking twice that he would get into trouble. I do feel responsible because at the age of 13 I don't think he was mature enough to handle such responsibility. I never thought of installing the parental controls on his computer or monitor his internet usage. After the incident with the inappropriate photos he has restricted access to the internet, at first he would complain about it but he eventually got used to it because he knew that it was going to be the only way he was aloud to use it. He later told me that he was thankful that I found those photos because he wanted to tell me but was too ashamed.

[rameumptom]

My daughter, when 16, told me she wasn't going to be a parent like my wife and I, rather she was going to be a "cool" parent. 16 years later, she asks our advice. And she was the one that occasionally snuck out of her room and did a few things she now regrets. She was also the one that when we would check up on her, would use the phrase, "don't you trust me?" or "do you think I'm evil that you have to watch over me?" Well, we tried back then to explain to her that she was inexperienced and tempted, like all kids, to do the cool things. Only with more experience can she now look back and be glad we watched over her, as it kept her from doing some really stupid things, like hang out with some kids that went to jail for vandalism.

I agree with Lilered. We as parents are responsible for our kids. We do not have to be overbearing, but as Alma encouraged Helaman, we do need to be bold. I'm not into a popularity contest with my kids. I'm here to raise them in righteousness and love, and do my best to keep them from ending up with teen pregnancy, addicted, diseased, or victim to a predator.

MySpace? Not on your life! No kid should have their own MySpace page. If you must, do it as a family project with goals. There is a lot of bad stuff on MySpace, Facebook and YouTube, and it must be watched carefully, if you wish to be a good parent. My 14 year old asked to have a MySpace/Facebook account, and the discussion ended after I explained the "no." It was the same reason I gave for not giving him a cell phone. It is easier to never allow these things than to provide them, only to gasp and struggle to take them back later.

If adults struggle with online gambling and porn addictions, just what do you think inexperienced teens are going through online? Yesterday they had a discussion on Headline News about MySpace and YouTube now being places for girls to attract guys by kissing each other. It shows the guy they like that they are willing to anything to get the boy. And they promote themselves online, on chat rooms, and cell phones. Do we really want to look back on our choices as "cool" parents and wished we'd taken the safer route with our kids? Why don't we just leave Playboy magazines and six packs of beer in their rooms, so as to eliminate the middle man? At least we'd know where they are, and that the impact on them would be much smaller than with the 17 girls in the Massachusetts high school who chose to get pregnant together. One of them by a homeless guy! Is that where we want our kids to end up? I promise that they will, if we do not show serious and sincere interest in guarding our kids. And that includes searching rooms, checking text messages, etc.