some questions as i investigate the church

[shadowhunter]

thanks everyone for all your help and i can accept the defintion of "god" meaning to live forever i thought it meant that we would become all knowing all poweful and be worshiped and that is something i have a hard time accepting but if it just means that God shall bless us with his knowledge and power then that makes sense i mean if the prophets and apostles on earth had some of the knowlege and power of God then why cant those in heaven have it... Im thinking about asking my newpew who is mormon and one of my best friends to take me to his church would that be ok?

[HiJolly]

thanks everyone for all your help and i can accept the defintion of "god" meaning to live forever i thought it meant that we would become all knowing all poweful and be worshiped and that is something i have a hard time accepting but if it just means that God shall bless us with his knowledge and power then that makes sense i mean if the prophets and apostles on earth had some of the knowlege and power of God then why cant those in heaven have it... Im thinking about asking my newpew who is mormon and one of my best friends to take me to his church would that be ok?

At first, yes. I'm sure your nephew would be delighted.

Later, though, if you decide to join the church you'd need to attend the congregation in your neighborhood. If it's the same as your nephew, that'd be cool!

HiJolly

[Dr T]

Tell hunter more about eternal progression and exaltation

[Guest tomk]

thanks everyone for all your help and i can accept the defintion of "god" meaning to live forever i thought it meant that we would become all knowing all poweful and be worshiped and that is something i have a hard time accepting but if it just means that God shall bless us with his knowledge and power then that makes sense i mean if the prophets and apostles on earth had some of the knowlege and power of God then why cant those in heaven have it... Im thinking about asking my newpew who is mormon and one of my best friends to take me to his church would that be ok?

Visitors are welcome at our meetings.

I don't like "worship" in the sense of having subordinates. Worshipping God means having an actual sense of how He is blessing my life and expressing actual gratitude for it. If a friend does something nice for you, or teaches you a useful skill -- do you express gratitude for it? When we do that with God, it's called worship. :)

God doesn't "need" our gratitude. Expressing gratitude to God blesses US!!

As far as having the power and glory of God -- that is a natural consequence of obeying His counsel. If you don't want to obey God, you don't have to, and He will never force you to. Unfortunately, there are consequences for our actions, or inaction.

[HiJolly]

Tell hunter more about eternal progression and exaltation

I'm not sure I understand you. Have you actually read through this entire thread?

HiJolly

[shadowhunter]

At first, yes. I'm sure your nephew would be delighted.

Later, though, if you decide to join the church you'd need to attend the congregation in your neighborhood. If it's the same as your nephew, that'd be cool!

HiJolly

im pretty sure his congergation would be the closest since that is something mormons and catholics have in common there arent many of either of us in Tennessee its mostly baptist around here

[Dr T]

Thanks HiJolly and yes I read it. You are not being up front, in my opinion, about the logical conclusion of what is inherent in those concepts though. It seems he's searching but if you hold back until he's in the church and use the whole "milk before meat" thing it's not giving him important information (again imo).

[shadowhunter]

Tell hunter more about eternal progression and exaltation

If you have some more info on eternal progression and exaltation that they dont have please give it to me the more i understand the better

[a-train]

Jesus said: 'To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.' (Rev. 3:21)

Paul said: 'The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God: And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.' (Rom.8:16-17)

The notion that God can raise a man to the exalted status of a joint-heir with Christ who will sit in His throne with Him is not new nor was it invented by Joseph Smith. It is plainly biblical. The revelations given to latter-day prophets only clarify and elucidate the doctrine.

Genesis 2:25 makes clear that Adam and Eve were husband and wife, and this by the hand of God. Indeed also, they were given 'dominion' over all the earth, and this also by the hand of God. This position was only lost by transgression of the commandments of God.

I ask: Would Adam and Eve have lost their lives, their dominion, their marriage, and their position with God had they not transgressed?

If the answer is no, then we must already believe that God is in the business of making men immortal gods of planets engaged in eternal marriage.

The next question is this: Is the blood of Jesus sufficient to save our first parents? Will they be redeemed to immortality? Will their dominion be saved? Will their marriage be saved? If not, what does salvation mean to Adam and Eve?

-a-train

[Maureen]

...Our Heavenly Father exists from all eternity to all eternity and will forever be our God. He has with Him two other Gods who are Christ and the Holy Ghost. These are our 'God' for all time and for all eternity...

But for this earth life, and for all eternity, we have only One God. The Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost.

Hello HiJolly,

You've explained the Godhead by identifying the Father, Son and HS as one singular God, but also as multiple Gods, could you explain this? Thanks!

M.

[Maureen]

...Now for another question how can the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost be separte but still be one God?

Hi shadowhunter,

You do realize that the Trinity teaches that the Father, Son and HS are distinct persons of the Godhead, separate from each other, but still existing as one God? Or do you?

BTW, Welcome!

M.

[mnn727]

You do realize that the Trinity teaches that the Father, Son and HS are distinct persons of the Godhead, separate from each other, but still existing as one God? Or do you?

.

Depends on who you ask (ie which denomination) some do and some don't. I really dislike it when mere humans (meaning us) try to put God and the Godhead into a neat little box of our own understanding. I doubt that we will truley understand the nature of the Godhead in all its intricacies until we can ask God about it in person. Edited September 1, 2008 by mnn727

[Islander]

By far, in my opinion, the controversy stems from the fact that most people ignore that the early Christian conception of the Trinity (Nicene Creed) was a political compromised rather than a theological one derived from a careful analysis of the scriptures.

Again, once we make up our mind and use a maze to reach a foundational position it hard to backtrack and undo it. However, simple logic and common sense based on the reading of the scriptures would lead most people to believe that they are 3 distinct and separate personages. Acquired "knowledge" (I'd call it borrowed) and adherence to a particular theological position just adds to the complexity of the issues when there should be none.

[Guest ceeboo]

By far, in my opinion, the controversy stems from the fact that most people ignore that the early Christian conception of the Trinity (Nicene Creed) was a political compromised rather than a theological one derived from a careful analysis of the scriptures.

However, simple logic and common sense based on the reading of the scriptures would lead most people to believe that they are 3 distinct and separate personages.

Hello Islander,

This is most certainly more of your factual posts and not your bias or opinion I assume.

God bless,

One of the people you suggest having very little logic or common sense.:)

Carl

[HiJolly]

Thanks HiJolly and yes I read it. You are not being up front, in my opinion, about the logical conclusion of what is inherent in those concepts though. It seems he's searching but if you hold back until he's in the church and use the whole "milk before meat" thing it's not giving him important information (again imo).

Pray tell, what has been left out? We have discussed theosis, God and man, Joseph and President Snow's opinions that God is a glorified man, etc. I fail to see what is hidden here.

HiJolly

[HiJolly]

Hello HiJolly,

You've explained the Godhead by identifying the Father, Son and HS as one singular God, but also as multiple Gods, could you explain this? Thanks!

M.

I'm not a theologian nor a philosopher. I love God and try to obey His commandments. I trust in Jesus Christ to save me from my sins via His atonement. I learn from the Holy Ghost ever more about life and the Heavens. I don't know much else.

I love the LDS Church and how it helps me in my journey of life.

HiJolly

[Islander]

Hello Islander,

This is most certainly more of your factual posts and not your bias or opinion I assume.

God bless,

One of the people you suggest having very little logic or common sense.:)

Carl

I can certainly see that you continue to struggle with my objectivity when it comes to these very contentious theological issues. All I've done is to point to historical events as recorded by many in regards to what actually happened in Nicene. You may not like or believe what history recorded but that is a different issue.

In the other hand, if you NEVER read the NT before and read Mathew 3:13-17 for the very first time the out most logical conclusion would be that ALL members of the Trinity were in attendance in separate and distinct form at the baptism of the Savior. If you desire to make a theological leap there and infer something else, feel free. However, what I stated above are facts well documented in the scriptures.

I may not be an elegant writer and at times perhaps, as pointed by some of the forum participants, fail to account for the sensibilities of others. However, I always note when I am stating an opinion and when I am pointing to a fact.

BTW, since all positions are known on the issue, we should just agree to split the difference when it comes to the Trinity and perhaps move on to a different topic?

Edited September 1, 2008 by Islander

[Guest ceeboo]

I can certainly see that you continue to struggle with my objectivity when it comes to these very contentious theological issues.

I always note when I am stating an opinion and when I am pointing to a fact.

Hello again Islander,

I struggle with your objectivity ?? Absolutly not the case ( I would greatly prefer your objectivity over your very biased and self serving opinions ( you call facts ).

You always note when you are stating an opinion and when you are pointing to fact.

I have had enough experience concerning this claim to be very confident in suggesting

that this is simply not so.

God bless,

Carl

[Islander]

Hello again Islander,

I struggle with your objectivity ?? Absolutly not the case ( I would greatly prefer your objectivity over your very biased and self serving opinions ( you call facts ).

You always note when you are stating an opinion and when you are pointing to fact.

I have had enough experience concerning this claim to be very confident in suggesting

that this is simply not so.

God bless,

Carl

I point to history and the scriptures, and ALL you can do is offer your unqualified opinion that I am biased and self serving?

We should just move on. The exchang stopped being meaningful or profitable some time ago.

[Guest ceeboo]

I point to history and the scriptures, and ALL you can do is offer your unqualified opinion that I am biased and self serving?

We should just move on. The exchang stopped being meaningful or profitable some time ago.

I will stand on " a simple look back on your posts " would tell a very different account then the one you continue to offer.

Your comment of " move on, the exchange stopped being meaningfull or profitable some time ago " Is a very common reply you give to many who do not agree with you. Atleast this time, you did not request I leave the forum like you have to others:)

God bless,

Carl

[Maureen]

I'm not a theologian nor a philosopher. I love God and try to obey His commandments. I trust in Jesus Christ to save me from my sins via His atonement. I learn from the Holy Ghost ever more about life and the Heavens. I don't know much else.

I love the LDS Church and how it helps me in my journey of life.

Okay but, do you see the Father, Son and HS as one God or three Gods?

M.

[HiJolly]

Okay but, do you see the Father, Son and HS as one God or three Gods?

M.

Both.

HiJolly

[shadowhunter]

Hi shadowhunter,

You do realize that the Trinity teaches that the Father, Son and HS are distinct persons of the Godhead, separate from each other, but still existing as one God? Or do you?

BTW, Welcome!

M.

i understand what the trinity teaches and ill admit thats a problem i have with my catholic faith they say its just a mystery but for me that isnt good enough i want to know God

[Maureen]

Both.

And you can't expand on that?

M.

[Maureen]

i understand what the trinity teaches and ill admit thats a problem i have with my catholic faith they say its just a mystery but for me that isnt good enough i want to know God

It's true that God is very mysterious, but that doesn't mean we can't get to know Him.

M.