I want to go to Church, but I do not believe! Help!

[norawhitman]

Hi!

Ny name is Nora, I am a convert to the church of (officially) 8 years, though I have not been active for the past 2 or 3.

I was very excited about the church. I love the structure. I love the institution as a whole (I even went to and graduated from BYU), but I have come to learn that that is what I believe in- the institution and the goodness of some people. I do not believe in much of the doctrine, or even the plan of salvation anymore.

I love church, and I love to go to church. I really want to go to relief society and Sunday School because I enjoy spending time with other intelligent moral people. However I feel like that perhaps that is hypocritical- to go to church for the social benefits.

What is your (anyones) advice/thoughts?

Thank you-

Nora

[prisonchaplain]

There are many social benefit clubs filled with "good, intelligent, moral" people. And yet, I've been told that LDS culture is very strong, and there is a community feeling that few other groups can match. Still...if it was me, I'd do some serious soul-searching, and if I simply could not believe, then I'd probably have to look elsewhere. After all, the coming together centers on folk being "of like precious faith."

[norawhitman]

...that I have looked into other churches. A lot of them. Nice people a lot of time, but still I don't believe the same things.

When I do find a group of people who think the way I do, sadly enough there tends to be a lot of immorality and lower standards. Obviously this will not always be the case, and perhaps I should look harder. But I love the people the LDS church helps to produce, I just can't give my soul to something that is not right for it anymore.

So any help you have would be great.

Is it wrong to go just to socialize, discuss, and learn?

[Guest tomk]

Hi!

Ny name is Nora, I am a convert to the church of (officially) 8 years, though I have not been active for the past 2 or 3.

I was very excited about the church. I love the structure. I love the institution as a whole (I even went to and graduated from BYU), but I have come to learn that that is what I believe in- the institution and the goodness of some people. I do not believe in much of the doctrine, or even the plan of salvation anymore.

I love church, and I love to go to church. I really want to go to relief society and Sunday School because I enjoy spending time with other intelligent moral people. However I feel like that perhaps that is hypocritical- to go to church for the social benefits.

What is your (anyones) advice/thoughts?

Thank you-

Nora

My gut response is -- go anyway.

It certainly cannot do you any HARM going to Church, even if you do not inwardly feel like you believe it.

The Lord is willing to work with whatever degree of willingness we have.

I hope your concerns are addressed. Let us know if we can clarify anything for you. Some folks leave the Church for reasons that, tragically, have no grounds as far as the actual gospel of Jesus Christ is concerned. They leave for the wrong reasons.

If you have doubts...faith can be strengthened!!

Stay close to your Savior. Let Him lead you and guide you.

[prisonchaplain]

Is it wrong to go just to socialize, discuss, and learn?

That is a good part of why I am here. However, the folk here either know this, or quickly learn it. My page lists my profession (clergy), my avatar demonstrates my non-LDS attire, and my posts freely include my Protestant, evangelical, pentecostal, non-LDS theological leanings. And...I get on rather well.

The difference is...people know that I'm not LDS. There's no hiding, no avoiding certain topics...just polite, thoughful discourse, and even some humor and fun. Can you do that? Can you go to church and all those meetings, and be open about what you believe and don't believe? If not, I'm wondering if the experience will produce more stress than social benefit. It's a matter you'll ultimately have to decide, though.

BTW, if some of those churches that are closer to your beliefs seem to have more immorality, it may simply mean that they are willing to reach out and care for "weaker bretheren." You might get along fine, if you're a little less analytical about the moral standing of others.

Edited September 5, 2008 by prisonchaplain

[prisonchaplain]

Is it wrong to go just to socialize, discuss, and learn?

That is a good part of why I am here. However, the folk here either know this, or quickly learn it. My page lists my profession (clergy), my avatar demonstrates my non-LDS attire, and my posts freely include my Protestant, evangelical, pentecostal, non-LDS theological leanings. And...I get on rather well.

The difference is...people know that I'm not LDS. There's no hiding, no avoiding certain topics...just polite, thoughful discourse, and even some humor and fun. Can you do that? Can you go to church and all those meetings, and be open about what you believe and don't believe? If not, I'm wondering if the experience will produce more stress than social benefit. It's a matter you'll ultimately have to decide, though.

BTW, if some of those churches that are closer to your beliefs seem to have more immorality, it may simply mean that they are willing to reach out and care for "weaker bretheren." You might get along fine, if you're a little less analytical about the moral standing of others.

[countrygirl66]

Hi I've been a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints for most of my life. It hasn't always been easy. I love the gospel and know it is true. I have a 15 year old son that isn't sure. I know that he will have to find his own testimony and it will come about in the way best for him. One thing that I try to remind him of is that you don't have to beleive right now you don't even have to have faith you only have to start with a hope of faith. My suggestion is go and enjoy the people and the spirit there. You will know what is right for you. Hope is the key to all good things in life.

[FunkyTown]

I... Have to agree with PrisonChaplain on this one. I think you need to identify why you don't believe and what you like about the church. You -have- to be true to what you believe. I can promise you I believe. If you were struggling with belief, I would say go. If you were trying to find truth, I would say go. But it sounds like you have decided it -isn't- true and nothing that is said will change your mind.

What you're suggesting is that it doesn't matter if something is true or not so long as you're content. That's simply not true. Here's a litmus test for people who say that the only thing that's important is personal happiness:

"Hey, Bob."

"Hey, Joe. How's your daughter?"

"Oh, she's good, Bob. I love her so much, I only want her to be happy. That's why I bought a lifetime supply of opium and am mainlining it for her so she never has to think, she will never have to feel pain. Just a never-ending, unthinking bliss."

Were you filled with horror at that? Most people are. The reason they are is that we instinctively -know- we were meant for more than pleasure. Parents let their kids go to school, knowing that they will skin their knees and have fights with friends and cry when they break up with the one they think they're in love with when they're thirteen. They know that the child must grow and develop, to be better, to face pain even though it doesn't give them immediate joy. You know in your heart that's the truth. Act on it.

[christmasvalleyfarms]

I would suggest you (re?)read Alma's discourse on faith. Have you ever really read the Book of Mormon? Faith really is like that seed. It doesn't grow if you don't feed it, cultivate it, water it.... The care and feeding of a testimony is really cultivating a relationship - with your Heavenly Father and your Savior. That takes some time and discipline and commitment - and the good old "Sunday School answers" of regular prayer, searching the scriptures, trying to live as the Savior did, loving others as He did.... but I can testify that the rewards of that investment are priceless and eternal. If the plant doesn't grow, it doesn't mean that the seed was not good. All I can tell you is I have tried his experiment, for 38 years - it's not always easy, often humbling, at times painful - but I wouldn't trade it for anything else, social or whatever, that the world can offer.

Sure, you can continue to hang out at the banquet as long as you like and enjoy the smells coming from the kitchen, as it were - that doesn't make you a hypocrite. But how sad if you don't really get to sit down and feast!! I hope and pray that you can find a way to enjoy all the blessings within the gospel that the Lord wants you to have and that He paid such a terrible and beautiful price to offer to you.

[tubaloth]

Are you really sure its the people? Have you tried going to other LDS churchs, ones that you don't know anybody at. I'm kind of wondering if a small part of this, is the spirit you feel each sunday. The spirit is something that just makes us be more happy. You feel that when you are around the truth being taught (and when you grow to love those you are around). I'm saying your good feeling is all the spirit, I'm sure there are other factors. But I do think this is part of what you are feeling!

So you have completly turned the other way to Joseph Smith, The Book of Mormon? Restored Church? Modern Prophets?

[RainofGold]

As a convert myself I had some of the feelings you are having now. When we joined the church I was only 15 years old. I liked the church members, the missionaries were nice and cute, but I didn't really have a testimony of the church, Book of Mormon, or Joseph Smith.

But the feeling that I had every Sunday when I went to church I didn't feel it anywhere else. So I kept going, received church callings, read the scriptures and very slowly started gaining my own testimony. It took me many years to have my own testimony of the gospel, it doesn't necessarily happens when we are baptized, and is different for everyone. I am glad that I stayed, and I hope that the feeling that you have right now keeps you going back. You have nothing to lose but a lot to gain.

Raiofgold:

[norawhitman]

Thank you all for your advice. I really do appreciate it. I am actually thinking that perhaps a nice chat with my Bishop might be an idea, to get his take on me coming to meetings, though I do not believe everything.

I want to share what I believe, or what I know so far. This is not meant to be an argument or the beginning of a huge and awkward theological discussion. I just want to help you understand better where I am coming from.

Let me say also, that I really really appreciate those of your who have read and took the time to answer my post.

I used to believe in the church, everything, 110%. I was raised in a house where organized religion was scorned and regarded as nothing more than man's attempt at monetary gain. I met some kids at school who were Mormon (which I thought were like unto Quakers- shows my lack of exposure to religion) and loved hanging out with them. Though my folks weren't religious I was raised with a high moral standard... got good grades... didn't sleep around...etc- basically a great candidate for the church (who isn't though, right?)

Anyhow I got baptized and went off to BYU. I majored in Middle Eastern Studies and went to study abroad in Egypt. I ended up spending a lot of time over there, and fell in love with the people. I found Islam intriguing, as well as Coptic Christianity. This is where my testimony of the church was challenged greatly. Would God really say that these people who's faith was greater than my own, who were more disicplined than me... that it all wasn't enough? That was the first big uh oh question.

The first time I got back from Egypt and immersed in good ol' BYU culture I tried really hard to ignore everything I was feeling in terms of doubt. I dove deep into service and into my calling. But in my spare time I would find myself checking books out of the library about different religions. I am fascinated by Eastern religions and find a lot of peace in their practices. I also find the history of religion fascinating, and I love to study the morphing of religions, if you will, as every religion has beliefs and rituals that are inherited by another. It was all truly amazing and was something I had never been exposed to.

Other doubts crept in. Things my father had said during the many arguments we had had when I had first joined the church. The age old questions with answers that were never satisfying. The law of consecration and pologamy, women and the priesthood, racism and the priesthood, and Heavenly Mother (since becoming a mother myself, I have found great comfort in (finally having the courage) talking to her! Something I was told not to do in church).

When I went back across seas I began to notice the Spirit everywhere. Old churches, mosques, synagogues, and temples throughout the Middle East and Europe had the Spirit in abundance. It was no different than the feeling I had felt in the temple a hundred times before. It was a sacred space made sacred by the thousands of prayers uttered there, made sacred by the thousands of faithful people who had worshipped there.

I began to think that Mormonism was the first thing that came around for me. It was the catalyst. It woke up my soul and sent me on quest for truth.

I do think the Book of Mormon has truth in it, I have read it only a few times, but each time I read it I feel peace. Definitely. I think the prophet and apostles are inspired men. But I also think Buddhism has inspired leaders. I read the Qur'an and I feel the same peace I feel when reading the Bible. There is no monopoly on truth or salvation. As long as we are seeking to live well, seeking to be better and serving others we are on our way there.

This poses a difficult question for me, and I recognize that I still have much to learn, and much to reconcile. If the BOM is true, does it not follow that Joseph Smith was a true prophet, etc, etc.? I don't know if that logic is entirely accurate or not. Joseph Smith was definitely inspired. Just look at what his work has done! The church renders more service to people than many institutions combined. But many other religions have impressive resumes as well.

I feel there is much to learn from all spiritual paths, as well as truths to be taken and applied in our lives. One path that is right for you may not be for the next person. There is something for everyone. Different individuals have different needs. I want my son to grow up and truly have a choice as to what he wants to practice and believe. But I also want him around good people. I love the church. There is much to be learned from the members in areas of service, love, discipline, and much else.

Anyway, I am done with my novel now. I promise. I just wanted to give you guys a glimpse at what is going on in my head and heart right now. Perhaps one of you will have a solution I have not thought of.

My biggest wish is to grow spiritually with people of a like mind. But I can not find them in my small town. So far its just me, my husband, and the dog. haha, j/k So I am thinking the next best bet is people of a similar moral code etc.

Any more advice?

Edited September 6, 2008 by norawhitman

[Moksha]

Is it wrong to go just to socialize, discuss, and learn?

No. Go forth and enjoy yourself. :)

[prisonchaplain]

With that update, you sound like a long-term investigator. Keep doing what your doing...every religion I know of promises that those who seek God with a sincere heart will find him.

[YoungMormonRoyalist]

...that I have looked into other churches. A lot of them. Nice people a lot of time, but still I don't believe the same things.

When I do find a group of people who think the way I do, sadly enough there tends to be a lot of immorality and lower standards. Obviously this will not always be the case, and perhaps I should look harder. But I love the people the LDS church helps to produce, I just can't give my soul to something that is not right for it anymore.

So any help you have would be great.

Is it wrong to go just to socialize, discuss, and learn?

Perhaps you should wonder why these 'people' are so much more morally upright, so faithful, and...so full of light. Why do they seem to shine forth in faith and in deed, what makes them hold fast to their doctrine, their beliefs, and why does it make them good people?

[richlittell]

Wow! that was a great read, your digest I mean. Thanks for sharing that. You obviously have studied a lot and it sometimes hard to see how one church can claim to be the only true church and yet others have so much to give, and it's all very interesting besides. My personal take on other religions, religious leaders, and even great philosophers is that at various places and various times, God has always had inspired men, even if the fullness of the Gospel isn't there. Why, because we are ALL Heavenly Father's children, so it is not surprising that you find so many good things in other religions and philosophies, and that you have met so many wonderful people.

Things to keep in mind. Just as there are Mormons who are too proud, or not living the standards and such, and whatever other shortcomings you see in our church, you 'll find those shortcomings in other churches as well, in any king of organization--because we are all human.

My suggestion is, before going away from your church for some "soul-searching", stick with what did come to you first--remember, you did not choose the church, Heavenly Father chose you. Write down all -- ALL -- of your concerns, ask the Bishop to appoint someone to walk with you through this journey and to address all your issues. Once you have done that, if you are not satisfied-- then go out and do your soul-searching.

As for the feeling of hypocritical-- I think we all have that experience from time to time either because we aren't living right or we just have sincere doubts. I don't think that it will last forever. But you know, God knows what your thinking wherever you are or wherever you go, so you're never being hypocritical if you are just honest with him in your prayers, and then, just go and socialize and don't worry so much.

sincerely,

rich

Edited September 8, 2008 by richlittell

[richlittell]

Oh, and p.s.

sounds like you're a convert and maybe the only one in your family that's LDS,

Been there done that.

This makes some of the things you're feeling more intense because, even though your family loves you, you still don't have their full support, which leads to doubts and feelings of loneliness. Buck up, it only gets better. Just remember, that is probably why your doubts or feelings may be more intense than others who have family support in the gospel.

[richlittell]

Besides the general advice I gave above, which I hope you take to heart, I'd like to specifically address some of your issues.

Anyhow I got baptized and went off to BYU. I majored in Middle Eastern Studies and went to study abroad in Egypt. I ended up spending a lot of time over there, and fell in love with the people. I found Islam intriguing, as well as Coptic Christianity. This is where my testimony of the church was challenged greatly. Would God really say that these people who's faith was greater than my own, who were more disicplined than me... that it all wasn't enough? That was the first big uh oh question.

Who says it isn't enough? We are one of the few religions in the world that say non-Christians living good principles, Christians living good principles, and even lukewarm Mormons all have their place in one of God's glorious kingdoms (which glory of the lowest is beyond our comprehension). And who's to say that all these might not come to the true church someday, maybe in the millennium.

But in my spare time I would find myself checking books out of the library about different religions. I am fascinated by Eastern religions and find a lot of peace in their practices. I also find the history of religion fascinating, and I love to study the morphing of religions, if you will, as every religion has beliefs and rituals that are inherited by another. It was all truly amazing and was something I had never been exposed to.

Please, keep doing that, seems God may have given you a special gift, to be one who can be knowledgeable in such areas and help the rest of us. And.. wasn't it because of your conversion and time in BYU that led you to these things? Don't too quickly bite the hand that feeds you.

When I went back across seas I began to notice the Spirit everywhere. Old churches, mosques, synagogues, and temples throughout the Middle East and Europe had the Spirit in abundance. It was no different than the feeling I had felt in the temple a hundred times before. It was a sacred space made sacred by the thousands of prayers uttered there, made sacred by the thousands of faithful people who had worshipped there.

That is the power of the Holy Spirit, the one you received by the laying on of hands. You may lose it, at least as a constant companion, if you turn away too quickly. No one ever said the only place to feel the Spirit is in our temple or churches.

I do think the Book of Mormon has truth in it, I have read it only a few times, but each time I read it I feel peace. Definitely. I think the prophet and apostles are inspired men. But I also think Buddhism has inspired leaders. I read the Qur'an and I feel the same peace I feel when reading the Bible. There is no monopoly on truth or salvation. As long as we are seeking to live well, seeking to be better and serving others we are on our way there.

God has had inspired men in various places in various ages for all his children.

I want my son to grow up and truly have a choice as to what he wants to practice and believe. But I also want him around good people. I love the church. There is much to be learned from the members in areas of service, love, discipline, and much else.

Your son will have his choice one day, teach him how to choose well, let him feel free to keep your faith or another, though if you are strongly inclined towards LDS, let him know so and he can decide for himself. He will have his choice regardless of what, if any, religion you practice. But I can tell you, just like the friends who brought you into the church, you will never find a greater group of young men and women for your son to hang around with (and someday find his life partner maybe, you know, a woman like yourself) :)

Question. Is your husband not LDS?

Edited September 8, 2008 by richlittell

[Islander]

...that I have looked into other churches. A lot of them. Nice people a lot of time, but still I don't believe the same things.

When I do find a group of people who think the way I do, sadly enough there tends to be a lot of immorality and lower standards. Obviously this will not always be the case, and perhaps I should look harder. But I love the people the LDS church helps to produce, I just can't give my soul to something that is not right for it anymore.

So any help you have would be great.

Is it wrong to go just to socialize, discuss, and learn?

Hi Nora. Welcome to the Forum.

I think my story mirror yours but on reverse. I went around in circles looking for a place to call home for 7 years or so. And experienced the same things you mentioned in your second post. I did find many kind and good-hearted people but still no deep connection.

I am not sure what thoughts and feelings dominate your life at present. I think in general you are experiencing a breech in your relation with your Heavenly Father. As someone suggested, it may be a good idea to visit with your Bishop and see where it leads. At the end, whether in our church or other, you must get to the bottom of what is affecting you currently in order to have a full and healthy spiritual life.

My prayers are with you.

[Mirium]

Everybody should be welcome at church no matter what stage they are at or what their current beliefs are. I would agree with those that say if you feel a desire to go to church then go. I would also agree that it is probably the spirit that you feel when you are there which makes it an enviroment you want to be in.

Talking things through with your Bishop is, in my opinion, a good thing to do also. He is inspired to know how to help you.