Do you think the 1/3 knew....

[threepercent]

that they were going to be kicked out? how about the 5 foolish virgins, do you think they knew they were going to miss the Bridegroom?

Because I suspect they thought they were all ok, and I also suspect they thought they were on the right side of things. I really doubt they thought they were evil.

I also wonder if they thought WE were evil, I mean after all, under the plan WE selected, some people are sure going to everlasting destruction. I can see how they would think we were heartless.

[kona0197]

I still find it hard to believe that I fought a war up there let alone was on the good side.

[pam]

I still find it hard to believe that I fought a war up there let alone was on the good side.

haha See Kona? There is some good in you after all. You just didn't know it.

[kona0197]

Maybe there was some good in me then. Not now. I'm beyond saving.

[Connie]

That's what Satan wants you to think anyway.

[kona0197]

If I understand it correctly as long as you live a somewhat honorable life you end up in a lower kingdom. Good enough for me. I'll be happy as long as I am not actually burning in a lake of fire for eternity.

[Guest JHM-in-Bountiful]

Maybe there was some good in me then. Not now. I'm beyond saving.

From what I understand, the only ones that are "beyond saving" are those who reject the gift of the holy ghost. Those are the people who have had an extremely strong testimony and then chose to reject it. I used to think I was beyond saving. It led me to leave the church. I've since returned. I have discovered that satan was using my low self esteem, and feelings of unworthiness to keep me away from Heavenly Father's love. I never did pray during those bad times. That's when I should have been praying the most. Praying, repentance, and accepting your faults are a few things that will help you get out of your present thinking. Remember the Atonement. You did make the right choice in siding with "the plan of Salvation". :)

[Connie]

that they were going to be kicked out? how about the 5 foolish virgins, do you think they knew they were going to miss the Bridegroom?

Because I suspect they thought they were all ok, and I also suspect they thought they were on the right side of things. I really doubt they thought they were evil.

I also wonder if they thought WE were evil, I mean after all, under the plan WE selected, some people are sure going to everlasting destruction. I can see how they would think we were heartless.

I think you are probably right. Although as some here have suggested, there are probably always going to be those who don't really care if they are evil or not.

[KrazyKay]

They way I understand it, those who have had a personal witness to Jesus Christ and then reject him are the ones that will be in outer darkness. Murderers, thieves, etc will be in the lowest Telestial kingdom, generally good people will be in the middle Terestial kingdom, and the most obedient and who have received all necessary ordinances, etc... will be in the Celestial kingdom.

Please excuse any mispellings, I am not that great of a speller, lol.

Anyway, on topic... I know of someone who used to work at the same walmart I do who used to be a cashier and she honestly thought it was ok to take a $20 bill out of her drawer and put in her pocket each day she worked. I don't think she even cared if she was right or wrong in what she thought. It did catch up to her and now she is in prison.

Edited September 7, 2008 by KrazyKay

[pam]

They way I understand it, those who have had a personal witness to Jesus Christ and then reject him are the ones that will be in outer darkness. Murderers, thieves, etc will be in the lowest Telestial kingdom, generally good people will be in the middle Terestial kingdom, and the most obedient and who have received all necessary ordinances, etc... will be in the Celestial kingdom.

Please excuse any mispellings, I am not that great of a speller, lol.

If spelling were a mandatory requirement here....there would be no forums. lol

[kona0197]

From what I understand, the only ones that are "beyond saving" are those who reject the gift of the holy ghost. Those are the people who have had an extremely strong testimony and then chose to reject it.

I have a testimony. I choose to follow a different path for the sake of keeping our debts paid and our heads above the water. Since I follow a different path does that mean I have rejected the holy ghost? I have never actually said I deny the Holy Ghost.

[Connie]

I have a testimony. I choose to follow a different path for the sake of keeping our debts paid and our heads above the water. Since I follow a different path does that mean I have rejected the holy ghost? I have never actually said I deny the Holy Ghost.

I think he was making the point that you probably have not and therefore are not "past saving."

[kona0197]

Thanks. I guess as it is I just don't care.

Back to topic.

[john doe]

Thanks. I guess as it is I just don't care.

Back to topic.

And yet, you keep coming back. Usually when someone doesn't care they act like it.

[a-train]

I don't think our fallen brothers and sisters believed they would fall. Their pride had blinded them. I'm sure it was just as Jesus describes the final judgment:

Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity. (Matt 7:22-23)

Satan's followers believed that agency was too dangerous and they sought to save all of Adam's children by preventing their fall. While their intentions were good natured, their activities were evil and their theories were wrong. Since the fall, Satan and his Legion have sought to take away agency from man through the influence of mammon.

Satan plans to take of the materials of the earth and buy armies and navies and tyrants who oppress that he may reign with blood and horror on the earth. Those under his control are motivated by self-pride and fear, and confused by the doctrines of men mingled with scripture.

There are many who imagine themselves wise enough to take up the task of taking agency from others. Unfortunately, there are many who do not remember what makes a man free, even when the scriptures make it so plain. Agency is totally necessary for freedom to be available, as long as a man is in denial of this truth, he is unwittingly headed for captivity.

-a-train

Edited September 7, 2008 by a-train

[kona0197]

Aren't moderators supposed to remain neutral? I feel as if I've just been egged on...

[john doe]

Aren't moderators supposed to remain neutral? I feel as if I've just been egged on...

Who said moderators can't have opinions? You keep claiming to not care, but you keep coming back to tell us that. In my experience, people who don't care don't come back. Just my opinion.

I suspect you DO care, and you would really like someone to pay more attention to you.

[kona0197]

Who said moderators can't have opinions?

Net etiquette. You can't pick sides. If you do you will favor one user over another. Thanks not fair to us. It's the price you pay.

I suspect you DO care, and you would really like someone to pay more attention to you.

I care but I just don't want to live the LDS way. Too much is asked and I've already given far more than was required in more ways than I care to describe.

I'm fine the way I am. Besides none of you truly understand my situation. If you did you would see what impossible problems I'm up against.

I do like attention though. Thanks.

[john doe]

Net etiquette. You can't pick sides. If you do you will favor one user over another. Thanks not fair to us. It's the price you pay.

Sure I can pick a side. I just have to apply the rules of the site fairly, not put my opinions away. The day someone in charge (ie., not you Kona) tells me to stop voicing my opinion, it will be my last day here.

I care but I just don't want to live the LDS way. Too much is asked and I've already given far more than was required in more ways than I care to describe.

I'm fine the way I am. Besides none of you truly understand my situation. If you did you would see what impossible problems I'm up against.

I do like attention though. Thanks.

Make up your mind. First you don't care, now you do care. We all know you don't have the will power to live the LDS lifestyle, you don't need to come back every two weeks and remind us. Try to find something else to talk about.

[kona0197]

OK you can have an opinion but it's bad form to pick sides. Make up my mind? Never. And how dare you say I do not have the will power to live the LDS way. You have no idea what stands in my way nor I guess do you care. I take that statement as an insult.

[john doe]

OK you can have an opinion but it's bad form to pick sides.

Hi, my name is John Doe. I am a moderator here at LDS.net. I am LDS. This is a pro-LDS website. My views, as expressed here, will generally be pro-LDS and will generally be supportive of the LDS Church and its leadership. If you have a problem with this, please feel free to write the owners of this site, at [email protected] .

Make up my mind? Never. And how dare you say I do not have the will power to live the LDS way. You have no idea what stands in my way nor I guess do you care.

Um, you have written numerous times about how you can't live the LDS lifestyle. You have said you believe it, then you say you take it back, then you don't know. You don't have the guts to act on what you believe. Either that or you don't know what you believe. You have told several stories about how you won't, or can't, join the church. I don't know or even care anymore which one is true.

I take that statement as an insult.

Take it however you want, Kona, it doesn't matter. It's not an insult, it's an observation on the way I see things. Just think of it this way. I've wasted an hour of my life, an hour I will never get back, dealing with your whining about my opinion. You were the main focus of my attention during that time. Where's my payback?

Edited September 7, 2008 by john doe

[kona0197]

Moved to PM...

Edited September 7, 2008 by kona0197

[john doe]

I think the 1/3 thought they could not live righteously without being forced to, so they chose the easy alternative. They knew there would be an evil force on earth, and they didn't think they could rise above it. They knew they were weak. I don't know how much they knew about the consequences of their actions, but it stands to reason that they knew that by choosing Satan's plan they were giving up a lot that God the Father has to offer them. The only thing that comes to mind tonight it that they may have been promised certain things by Satan if they chose his side? The question is, what could he have offered them that would entice them to forsake the Father? I wonder, were they promised an eventual life on this earth if they followed him? This is speculation only, of course.

[john doe]

Moved to PM...

It's almost AM where I'm at. You better hurry.:lol:

[debi56]

Until recently I also believed I was unworthy for anything positive. I read "Believing Christ", and it was a real turning point for me. For us to reject the sacrifice that Jesus made for us is like saying what he did doesn't matter. He died for every single person on this earth that was, is and will be.

For me to understand this, I had to put it in personal terms that I could relate to. I thought about the times I had done something for my kids, something special, nothing they asked for but I did it just to make them happy. When I would present it to them, and they would refuse it, it would hurt me. Now I can understand the atonement. I wonder how many times Jesus has wept when one of us has refused the sacrifice. Don't let Satan make you feel that you are not worthy enough to accept the gift of the atonement. We are all G ds' children and so we are all heirs to what he has. We are all of royal births. We are princes and princesses.

Each person that feels unworthy and doesn't accept this gift, Satan laughs and thrills over one more soul he believes he has kept down. Remember "Misery loves Company".