Works are NOT required for Salvation

[MormonGirl02]

I needed to read this. Thank you.

[Jenamarie]

  Brenton said:

So ... by what youre saying JenaMarie... this means that as long as we believe in Christ we can do whatever we like?

This means that any action is ok?

Wow.

Um, no. What I'm saying is that, other than denying the Holy Spirit, our actions aren't going to get us damned to Hell, like I've heard some Christians say Mormons believe. Like we live in a constant state of fear of "not doing enough" and ending up in Hell despite our best efforts. That there's no roll for Grace in our view of Salvation.

Of COURSE our actions mean something, but I think you're confusing Salvation with Exaltation, which are two entirely seperate things. We do nothing to earn Salvation, (or at least the lowest "degree" of Salvation, that being entrance into the Tellestial Kingdom, a Ressurected body, and Immortal life), but the choices we make DO effect whether or not we gain entrance into the Celestial Kingdom, gain Exaltation and have Eternal Life. The greater Heavenly Reward.

[Justice]

2 Ne. 31:

10 And he said unto the children of men: Follow thou me. Wherefore, my beloved brethren, can we follow Jesus save we shall be willing to keep the commandments of the Father?

Alma 5:

41 Therefore, if a man bringeth forth good works he hearkeneth unto the voice of the good shepherd, and he doth follow him; but whosoever bringeth forth evil works, the same becometh a child of the devil, for he hearkeneth unto his voice, and doth follow him.

I love how the Book of Mormon clarifies.

[Tough Grits]

Many key words would need to be defined, and even then individual testimony and understanding would reveal the same truth in a different way to each of us.

It is not the doctrine that changes through personal revelation, only the application thereof. Which means, through personal revelation, we will be guided to an understanding that is correct for us as individuals, and we will be directed to actions that are also specific to who we are as individuals.

As we continue to grow in the gospel, we will continue to receive "updates" to what we know. Which is why we must read our scriptures over and over, because how we see and understand a scripture now, may not be how we see/understand in 5 years.

This is also why listening to our leaders is essential. It may seem that the focus we have on a particular gospel doctrine or principle is just fine, but after listening to/reading the words of our leaders, we find ourselves amazed at how our clarity can be even more enhanced on that given doctrine/principle.

  Quote

Russell M. Nelson, “Salvation and Exaltation,” Liahona, May 2008, 7–10

The third article of faith declares that “through the Atonement of Christ, all mankind may be saved, by obedience to the laws and ordinances of the Gospel.”

To be saved—or to gain salvation—means to be saved from physical and spiritual death. Because of the Resurrection of Jesus Christ, all people will be resurrected and saved from physical death. People may also be saved from individual spiritual death through the Atonement of Jesus Christ, by their faith in Him, by living in obedience to the laws and ordinances of His gospel, and by serving Him.

To be exalted—or to gain exaltation—refers to the highest state of happiness and glory in the celestial realm. These blessings can come to us after we leave this frail and mortal existence. The time to prepare for our eventual salvation and exaltation is now.

As part of that preparation, one must first hear and understand the gospel. For this reason the gospel of Jesus Christ is being taken to “every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people.”

I don't believe in the kind of Hell that poets like to describe.

The following is what I believe to be true...

Hell LDS.org>Gospel Topics

  Quote

Latter-day revelations speak of hell in at least two ways. First, it is another name for spirit prison, a temporary place in the postmortal world for those who died without a knowledge of the truth or those who were disobedient in mortality. Second, it is the permanent location of Satan and his followers and the sons of perdition, who are not redeemed by the Atonement of Jesus Christ.

I also believe the following to be true:

LDS.org>Gospel Topics

  Quote

Salvation from Physical Death.

All people eventually die. But through the Atonement and Resurrection of Jesus Christ, all people will be resurrected—saved from physical death. Paul testified, "As in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive" (1 Corinthians 15:22). In this sense, everyone is saved, regardless of choices made during this life. This is a free gift from the Savior to all human beings.

Salvation from Sin.

To be cleansed from sin through the Savior's Atonement, an individual must exercise faith in Jesus Christ, repent, be baptized, and receive the gift of the Holy Ghost (see Acts 2:37–38). Those who have been baptized and have received the Holy Ghost through the proper priesthood authority have been conditionally saved from sin. In this sense, salvation is conditional, depending on an individual's continuing in faithfulness, or enduring to the end in keeping the commandments of God (see 2 Peter 2:20–22).

Individuals cannot be saved in their sins; they cannot receive unconditional salvation simply by declaring a belief in Christ with the understanding that they will inevitably commit sins throughout the rest of their lives (see Alma 11:36–37). However, through the grace of God, all can be saved from their sins (see 2 Nephi 25:23; Helaman 5:10–11) as they repent and follow Jesus Christ.

Eternal Life, or Exaltation.

In the scriptures, the words saved and salvation often refer to eternal life, or exaltation (see Abraham 2:11). Eternal life is to know Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ and dwell with Them forever—to inherit a place in the highest degree of the celestial kingdom (see John 17:3; D&C 131:1–4; 132:21–24). This exaltation requires that men receive the Melchizedek Priesthood, and that all Church members make and keep sacred covenants in the temple, including the covenant of eternal marriage. If the word salvation is used in this sense, no one is saved in mortality. That glorious gift comes only after the Final Judgment.

No attempt on my part could explain grace better than this:

LDS.org>Gospel Topics

  Quote

Grace is a gift from Heavenly Father given through His Son, Jesus Christ. The word grace, as used in the scriptures, refers primarily to enabling power and spiritual healing offered through the mercy and love of Jesus Christ.

Everyone on earth experiences physical death. Through the grace of Jesus Christ, all will be resurrected and will live forever (see 1 Corinthians 15:20–22; 2 Nephi 9:6–13).

Because of personal choices, everyone also experiences the effects of sin (see 1 John 1:8–10; Mosiah 16:4). These effects are called spiritual death. No one can return to the presence of God without divine grace. Through the Atonement, we all can be forgiven of our sins; we can become clean before God. To receive this enabling power, we must obey the gospel of Jesus Christ, which includes having faith in Him, repenting of our sins, being baptized, receiving the gift of the Holy Ghost, and trying to follow the teachings of Jesus Christ for the rest of our lives (see Ephesians 2:8–9; James 2:17–22; 2 Nephi 25:23; 31:20).

The grace of God helps us every day. It strengthens us to do good works we could not do on our own. The Lord promised that if we humble ourselves before Him and have faith in Him, His grace will help us overcome all our personal weaknesses (see Ether 12:27).

But reading these explanations of the key words discussed in the thread so far, does not mean that we will now all be on the "same page". It is not possible. We all read from the same scriptures (KJV Bible, Book of Mormon, Doctrine and Covenants, and Pearl of Great Price), so why aren't our understandings of those scriptures exactly the same...????

Because none of us are the same. It is so interesting to see how we are all unified in being children of God, but we are all unique in spirit, circumstance, and understanding. How we understand and apply the gospel, even when it is delivered to all of us in the same manner (through the same scriptures and the same prophet upon the earth), will vary in application from spirit to spirit, though the doctrine itself remains the same.

~TG

Edited September 27, 2008 by Tough Grits

[richlittell]

  Tough Grits said:

...

I think the information you quoted was excellent.

[jimuk]

When Jesus says " follow me " i am sure that he means more than just believe in me and you are saved, he is saying, follow me, walk where i walk, walk in my steps, be like me in all ways. And all this would be to love one another, the way he loves us, be compassionate towards your fellow man " and woman ", help others, and in general keep heavenly fathers commandments.

Oh joy, wouldent life be easy if all we had to do was to believe in Jesus

[Jenamarie]

I don't think people are getting what I'm trying to say.

I'm talking about the part of Salvation as defined by other Christian faiths that means Saved from Hell. The only "work" you can do, according to LDS theology, that will keep you from some degree of Heaven is denying the Holy Spirit. Everyone else will achieve at a minimum the Tellestial Kingdom.

Of COURSE we're expected to follow Him. Of COURSE we're expected to have our Faith manifested by our Works, but our Eternal consequence for failing at that isn't hellfire and brimstone, it's a lesser degree of Glory.

[jimuk]

  Jenamarie said:

I don't think people are getting what I'm trying to say.

I'm talking about the part of Salvation as defined by other Christian faiths that means Saved from Hell. The only "work" you can do, according to LDS theology, that will keep you from some degree of Heaven is denying the Holy Spirit. Everyone else will achieve at a minimum the Tellestial Kingdom.

Of COURSE we're expected to follow Him. Of COURSE we're expected to have our Faith manifested by our Works, but our Eternal consequence for failing at that isn't hellfire and brimstone, it's a lesser degree of Glory.

Jenamarie i am following you now, ( me thinks )

In my view there is only one circumstance in which a person could deny in order to not recieve salvation, that would be that, whilst having a testimony and be full of the spirit, to then knowingly act against heavenly fathers will, even knowing that he is fighting against the spirit of god.

I do not feel that a person that has had his or her testimony taken from them and then falls into bad ways would not fall into the above category.

[candyprpl]

  Jenamarie said:

A sticking point I find some Christians present as their reason for disagreeing with the LDS church (among many) is how we believe works are required for Salvation.

The fact is that we DON'T.

Other Christian faiths teach that it is by Grace that we are Saved, and that our works only earn us greater Heavenly rewards.

The LDS church teaches the exact same thing.

Baptism, the Gift of the Holy Ghost, Temple Ordinances, and Proxy Temple Ordinances are not pulling us, or our ancestors, further away from the jaws of Hell. We are already safely out of their reach (unless we reject the Spirit). What they DO do is open the doors to greater Blessings in this life, and greater Rewards in the next, including the reward of Exaltation and Eternal Life with our Father in Heaven, and with our families.

An LDS person who isn't Sealed in the Temple isn't destined for Hell. Nor is someone who commits a crime. What they are putting at risk isn't their Salvation, but their Exaltation, which are two seperate things (Exaltation being the greatest of the Heavenly Rewards). They are not building up as many Treasures in Heaven as they might otherwise be.

But their works aren't Saving them from Hell. Our loving Savior has already done that miraculous piece of work.

(I just thought I would come back to your first statement)

I was raised Baptist and all I really remember is the need to go forward, ask for forgiveness, accept Jesus Christ as my Savior and be baptized and then I would be saved from Hell. I always wondered if this was all I needed to do, why the emphasis in the Bible of Jesus' teachings about keeping the commandments and his being the example of how I was suppose to live my life. Somehow, either I didn't understand what I was being taught or there was more to learn that wasn't presented in this church. I found the latter to be true.

Elder Dallin H. Oaks of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles

"Are You Saved by Grace or Works?

"We believe that through the Atonement of Christ, all mankind may be saved, by obedience to the laws and ordinances of the Gospel." --AofF 1:3

"Heavenly Father wants all of His children to return to Him. The help or strength He gives us through the love of Jesus Christ is called grace. The things we must do are called works.

To gain eternal life, we need both grace and works. A Christian author, C.S. Lewis, compared grace and works to the blades of a pair of scissors. Both are necessary. To ask "Are you saved by grace or works?" is like asking, "Do you cut with this blade or that one?"

We receive God's grace because of the Atonement. We can't raise ourselves from the dead, so the Resurrection is an example of His grace. We can't purify ourselves from sin, so the Lord's forgiveness is another example of grace. But before He will forgive us, we must repent -- that's our part, our works.

Besides repentance, our works also include receiving ordinances, keeping convenants, and serving others. While these works are necessary for salvation, they aren't sufficient. They are not enough because we can't live perfect lives, but we can do our best to live righteously. By doing so, we invite the Lord's grace into our lives and gualify for the gift of salvation.

If your friends ask, "Does your church believe you are saved by grace or works?" you could say, "We believe that we are saved by grace after all we can do (see 2 Nephi 25:23). We don't earn salvation. Heavenly Father and the Savior will bless us with eternal life, through Their grace, if we do our part. They have asked us to have faith in Jesus Christ, repent throughout our lives, be baptized and receive other ordinances, and faithfully endure to the end. If we do that, we are promised eternal life through the grace of God."

"After all our obedience and good works, we cannot be saved from the effect of our sins without the grace extended by the Atonement of Jesus Christ."

That says it for me. I hope this quote will help others who may have misconceptions about what we believe on this topic.:)COLOR]

[Tough Grits]

  candyprpl said:

A Christian author, C.S. Lewis, compared grace and works to the blades of a pair of scissors. Both are necessary. To ask "Are you saved by grace or works?" is like asking, "Do you cut with this blade or that one?"

candyprpl,

Of course I had to comment on your post...as C.S. Lewis is my favorite author! I even read that quote or that whole article before because it all sounds familiar. :D

My favorite way to study the gospel is to pick a topic and search it out on LDS.org through two areas: Gospel Topics and through the article/conference "Search".

What is interesting about this method of study, is that you find plenty of information of the topic you are studying, AND you find yourself going off on so many other awesome avenues.

Of course, as with anything, with this method of study you have to be careful to not get overwhelmed or to feast too fast on a HUGE amount of gospel knowledge and truths. Feasting too fast is as bad as not feasting at all...right?

Anyway...great quote!!!!

~TG

[Tough Grits]

When I was agnostic, the concept of Hell truly angered me.

Why would I go to hell simply because I had not found a religion that I had found to be true?

I was not a bad person, I had done nothing against the laws of man (except for a few speeding tickets in my youth) and I was not openly against God, I just hadn't found truth yet.

It is important to understand, as Mormons and for others to understand about us, that our beliefs do not have the concept of Hell as depicted by poets or society at large.

There is no raging inferno where demons guard the gates and Satan runs amok eating the sinners who are unfortunate enough to be cast down to hell.

Hell (to me) would be to find myself in a lower glory for eternity, knowing that I am forever separated from my family and friends and from God. That would be hell, in reference to my state of mind and my feelings. But as far as ammenitites, any glory is far better than this mortal world we live in now!

We do believe in outer darkness, but that is reserved for the sons of perdition. For those who do not know about outer darkness or the sons of perdition, look it up on LDS.org under gospel topics or article search.

[prisonchaplain]

  jimuk said:

When Jesus says " follow me " i am sure that he means more than just believe in me and you are saved, he is saying, follow me, walk where i walk, walk in my steps, be like me in all ways. And all this would be to love one another, the way he loves us, be compassionate towards your fellow man " and woman ", help others, and in general keep heavenly fathers commandments.

Oh joy, wouldent life be easy if all we had to do was to believe in Jesus

Nobody is denying the need for Christians to love God and neighbor...to follow Jesus. The question remains, does conversion = salvation, and is the love and following of Jesus a PRODUCT of salvation, or do we struggle to do our best, hoping it is enough, so that when we die, we've "done all that we can," and had a part in earning our salvation?

[Guest tomk]

  prisonchaplain said:

Nobody is denying the need for Christians to love God and neighbor...to follow Jesus. The question remains, does conversion = salvation, and is the love and following of Jesus a PRODUCT of salvation, or do we struggle to do our best, hoping it is enough, so that when we die, we've "done all that we can," and had a part in earning our salvation?

We must remember CHOICE.

God chooses to remain as He has become.

He chooses to help us become like He is.

We choose to follow His counsel (or not follow it).

We always have choice.

Becoming like God has a beginning here in mortality, and continues in the eternities to come.

The focus of this life is to enter into the covenant relationship and remain in the covenant relationship by choice.

To consider ourselves immutably "saved" never to fall -- is to, in essence, negate the possibility of choice.

The LDS Church believes even God can fail. Now, He won't because He knows how to avoid it, but because of choice, because of agency, the possibility must exist for that to happen:

Alma 42: 13, 22, 25

13 Therefore, according to justice, the plan of redemption could not be brought about, only on conditions of repentance of men in this probationary state, yea, this preparatory state; for except it were for these conditions, mercy could not take effect except it should destroy the work of justice. Now the work of justice could not be destroyed; if so, God would cease to be God.

• • •

22 But there is a law given, and a punishment affixed, and a repentance granted; which repentance, mercy claimeth; otherwise, justice claimeth the creature and executeth the law, and the law inflicteth the punishment; if not so, the works of justice would be destroyed, and God would cease to be God.

• • •

25 What, do ye suppose that mercy can rob justice? I say unto you, Nay; not one whit. If so, God would cease to be God.

[prisonchaplain]

I'm saved...but I must tend to my salvation.

[YoungMormonRoyalist]

  prisonchaplain said:

Nobody is denying the need for Christians to love God and neighbor...to follow Jesus. The question remains, does conversion = salvation, and is the love and following of Jesus a PRODUCT of salvation, or do we struggle to do our best, hoping it is enough, so that when we die, we've "done all that we can," and had a part in earning our salvation?

As I see it, conversion is an ongoing, almost eternal process. Conversion does not end at faith, baptism or any of the other ordinances. I can testify that though I was baptized till the age of eight I was not truly converted till later.

How does this connect to works? Easy. One might say that works are a part of conversion. In John 14: 15 the Holy One of Israel says simply "If ye love me keep my commandments."

To truly love the saviour, a requirement for grace, one must further God's work. We need to clarify that we are carrying out not our own works, but Christ's works. Faith and works are synonymous, one, and insepperable. As I see it, Grace and works are one. The atonement of the Only Begotten is put forth and simulated in every ordinance and deed done by the saints. Baptism is in simultude of the death and subsequent resurrection of the Saviour. The temple ordinances and covenants are a way of reafirming and strengthening our faith in God and his Son, thereby attaining grace.

Grace and (true, not faithless works) works are one in the same. To quote the eternal Frank Sinatra "You can't have one without the other".

[Guest tomk]

  prisonchaplain said:

I'm saved...but I must tend to my salvation.

Correct!

"tending to my salvation" to me means, continuing to obey the voice of Christ. That is how I show my continuing desire to live as God lives...for He will force no man to heaven.

[Tough Grits]

  prisonchaplain said:

I'm saved...but I must tend to my salvation.

Good thought. We are all saved in the most basic (yet profound and miraculous) manner, by virtue of the sacrifice that Christ made for us, which enables all of us to be resurrected.

I landscaped my lawn, but I still have work to do in it...right? Still, I wouldn't even have the plants to landscape my yard with, if not for God. The very means we all use to help keep us on the straight and narrow, are often blessings from God.

I can never get over how compassionate and loving He is. He tells us the things we need to do, He leaves the choice up to us, but he is there every step of the way to help us if we but ask. That may seem so simple, but to me it is extraordinary.

These "works" that we speak of, are often things that we do in service to God, or in service to our fellow beings. The more we do to keep ourselves on the straight and narrow, the more we find ourselves reaching out and helping others, intentionally (by service, prayers, etc. towards others) or unintentionally (letting our light shine so that others may be inspired).

Are there any works within the Church that only benefit ourselves? I can't think of any.

The priesthood cannot be used on oneself. One must be worthy to hold the priesthood, and then a priesthood holder uses that gift/power in blessing others.

The callings we receive are to challenge us and help us overcome weakness and/or failings, but don't they benefit others as well?

Prayers are for us, and for communicating our gratitude and needs to Heavenly Father, but don't we also use our prayers on behalf of others?

They say that a chain is only as strong as the weakest link. As children of God we are all linked. What we do within our own individual link absolutely has an effect on somebody else somewhere along the chain. We can either be strengthening each other, or weakening each other.

But I do not look at "works" as others might see it. For me, works is something that I am doing because God has asked it of me and I choose to obey, and the works that I do in obedience benefit me and my little family, my extended family, friends, and people who may not even know me by name. My little family is a chain, and the choices that we make within our little family (collective or individual) effect the whole chain.

For me "works" is not a selfish endeavor, because works is a very large umbrella in which all of the important principles, doctrines, and virtues fall. Such as faith, hope, charity, compassion, prayer, love, forgiveness, fellowship, mourning with those who mourn, fasting, bearing testimony, brightness of hope, enduring to the end, etc.

Works are personal, because we must make the choice to have good works or bad works, but works are also something that cannot be kept to oneself, any more than a light can be hid in the dark.

No, I do not agree with the notion that Mormons might see themselves in an arrogant light supposing that their own works will vault them above others. I don't see it this way, because in my heart I know that my "works" are not for my benefit alone. My works can benefit anybody along the chain of life, just as the works of another can benefit me or somebody in my little family.

I do believe in Grace. I am saved (in the sense that I will be resurrected). I am not ashamed to say that I do believe in works, because my works benefit more than just myself. I know that nothing I do by itself will secure me a place in the highest glory, because I also know that one cannot bargain or wheel and deal their way into heaven. The things that God asks me to do, the things that I choose to do, I do with a loving heart and mind. I try not to even think about what is in it for me. I just do it because I choose to, and it feels right.

I am not in a race. Living the gospel is not a competition. The only person I am here to prove myself to, is Heavenly Father. With that in mind, everything esle falls into place.

~TG

[prisonchaplain]

I'm remembering a teaching I once gave...if I find it I'll post it in a blog..."I'm Saved, I'm Being Saved, and I will be Saved." Jesus did it, I'm living it, and I will obtain the entirety of it. The one bugaboo that evangelicals, most Protestants will not consider is that we have a part in our initial salvation...that we somehow earned even a portion of it.

[richlittell]

Although we may not be on the same page as some protestants who believe "once saved always saved" I think we can agree with other faiths on some points.

1. No person can gain salvation by their works alone. No person, by themselves, "merits" salvation even by righteous living.

2. Grace is insufficient alone. Christ invites all persons to come to him, but he cannot force any one to do so.

3. Grace is sufficient only for those who come to Christ (and some might agree "work out their salvation").

How we differ:

There are two salvations: temporal, spiritual

1. Temporal - Salvation of the body, immortality; a free gift, by grace, to all humankind.

2. Spiritual - Salvation of the soul in the highest Kingdom of God, namely, exaltation.

Coming to Christ refers to spiritual salvation and means receiving the proper ordinances (such as baptism and temple endowments) and repentance, and a constant working out of our salvation. God requires our best efforts amid our bouts with our weaknesses, nothing more nor less than this.

[Dale]

I think Evangelicals merely think salvation from hell, and the later lake of fire. Whereas LDS think of degrees of reward that are by grace coupled with gospel obedience. Salvation from hell to a kingdom if i understand LDS belief right is a free gift that comes with the resurrection.

[Guest tomk]

The main place where LDS Theology differs is the need for covenant-making, as the Lord has revealed, by the proper priesthood authority.

Many good people, who otherwise have WONDERFUL faith in Christ and His power, are still going to have to submit to these ordinances! Even Christ Himself was not exempt. He was baptized by immersion. He, too, submitted to covenant-making with the Father:

2 Ne. 31: 7, 13, 17

7 Know ye not that he was holy? But notwithstanding he being holy, he showeth unto the children of men that, according to the flesh he humbleth himself before the Father, and witnesseth unto the Father that he would be obedient unto him in keeping his commandments.

• • •

13 Wherefore, my beloved brethren, I know that if ye shall follow the Son, with full purpose of heart, acting no hypocrisy and no deception before God, but with real intent, repenting of your sins, witnessing unto the Father that ye are willing to take upon you the name of Christ, by baptism—yea, by following your Lord and your Savior down into the water, according to his word, behold, then shall ye receive the Holy Ghost; yea, then cometh the baptism of fire and of the Holy Ghost; and then can ye speak with the tongue of angels, and shout praises unto the Holy One of Israel.

• • •

17 Wherefore, do the things which I have told you I have seen that your Lord and your Redeemer should do; for, for this cause have they been shown unto me, that ye might know the gate by which ye should enter. For the gate by which ye should enter is repentance and baptism by water; and then cometh a remission of your sins by fire and by the Holy Ghost.

[prisonchaplain]

The posting I did in the beliefs section "I was, am being, will be saved," confirms some suspicions here. We evangelicals are most concerned with being saved from the flames of hell, and also entry into the kingdom of heaven. Responsiblity comes with faithful labor, as shown in the parable of the talents. So, the "spiritual salvation" that you call exaltation and entry into the Celestial Kingdom, might be considered rewards for faithful service, rather than "salvation." We're not reconciled on this yet, but there is a lot of common ground.

[jimuk]

  prisonchaplain said:

Nobody is denying the need for Christians to love God and neighbor...to follow Jesus. The question remains, does conversion = salvation, and is the love and following of Jesus a PRODUCT of salvation, or do we struggle to do our best, hoping it is enough, so that when we die, we've "done all that we can," and had a part in earning our salvation?

Hi there PC.

1. No conversion alone does not = salvation, how can it, one must strive/try his utmost to honor this conversion and to follow the footsteps of Jesus christ which would = WORKS.

This struggling to do our best would bring salvation which is same as above, but and yes there is a but.

Gods house is a house of order, things must be done in accordance to the kingdom of heaven

who do you think Jesus was talking about when he said the things below, to me he is saying you must follow me and do as " I DO" in my ways and not in the ways of man.

So even though those attributed to below "THOUGHT" they were doing gods will, they were not.

There is a right way and there is a wrong way, It is Quoted by jesus himself. And i am honored to be able to say that " The church of Jesus Christ of latter day saints" are doing it the right way.

"Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. Many will say to Me in that day, 'Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?' And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; depart from Me'"

Does the above quote sound like we are saved by Grace alone, of course it doesent.

[YoungMormonRoyalist]

  prisonchaplain said:

The posting I did in the beliefs section "I was, am being, will be saved," confirms some suspicions here. We evangelicals are most concerned with being saved from the flames of hell, and also entry into the kingdom of heaven. Responsiblity comes with faithful labor, as shown in the parable of the talents. So, the "spiritual salvation" that you call exaltation and entry into the Celestial Kingdom, might be considered rewards for faithful service, rather than "salvation." We're not reconciled on this yet, but there is a lot of common ground.

Perhaps the reason that we have works is not so that we gain some reward, but maintain our fait, through which we attain grace. You are married no?

Do you have to work at a marriage to maintain it? Do you have to tell your wife that you love her, that you care for her? Do you take her out on the occaisional date? Do special things for her? The marriage is marriage, period, but without constant work it will degrade and fall. The same can be said for grace and works.

Grace and Works are necessary because they are inseperable. Grace is attained by faith, and faith must be constantly nutured by doing the things Christ commanded of us, in other words, works. Works must be done with an eye to Grace, because without direction good deeds are meaningless.

So then the question is? Our works necessary for salvation?

In a certain way yes. Grace is the only thing necessary for salvation, but works help us maintain our faith.

[bmy-]

I've always been fond of saying.. [i loved the 'tending to my salvation' point.]

Saved by grace through works..