Prepared to defend yourself?

[Elgama]

The other reason (besides protecting yourself and your food) to have a gun, bow, snares, or other weapon is to be able to hunt food in case things go REALLY south!

this is the primary reason I would own a gun - I think also to assume people who don't have an arsenel of weapons won't defend themselves is also wrong

-Charley

[dalepres]

I think America's deer and elk populations will last about a month should government fail and society implode. But some fire-roasted pitt bull sounds mighty tasty.

[Hemidakota]

How many of us own body armor? Just curious!

[Copacetic]

Guns...yes. Bow...yes. Ability to use them...priceless.

[Hemidakota]

Body protection?

[NeuroTypical]

I'm betting that outside of active or former military folks, you won't find many people who have invested in body armor. I know we haven't. I've gone so far as to price a vest or two, but then I think about all the other stuff I could buy instead of a vest, and that's as far as it goes.

LM

[Hemidakota]

Police officers are included...just numbers of those who have them but not endorsing to go out and purchase them.

[rameumptom]

I am former military (20 years - Go USAF!). I don't own guns or armor. I feel I'm doing just fine listening to the counsel of the prophets. I have my food storage. I am out of debt, except for my home. I have savings in the bank. I grow a garden.

If the day comes when everything collapses, then I'll just turn to my bishop and ask him where he wants me to deliver my food storage, and where the defense and refuge of Zion will be for our ward and stake.

[NeuroTypical]

Interesting thought, Ram. So, you're basically saying that you'll ask your Bishop where the safe place will be, and you'll go there. Me too. Hopefully, most of us would say 'me too'.

Now, anyone care to speculate about what will make the safe place safe? Do you think there will be no need of some sort of defensive force like the righteous Nephites needed all through the BoM? In the situation you describe (where 'everything collapses' and the LDS gather for safety) I rather think there will be some sort of armed LDS force involved. If that's the case, that means if your family and mine end up in the same location, my wife will be going out on patrol to keep your unarmed family safe. She's been to the range a couple of times, and just finished an 8 hour NRA course. I'm not sure how that stacks up against your 20 years in the Air Force.

Would you like us to buy and store an extra gun for you?

This post probably sounds a bit more contentious than I'd like. I'm not trying to attack you Ram, I'm just trying to find a realistic understanding of how such a scenario might play itself out. If you have a different understanding, please share. I'm guessing at what your future might look like - your guess has got to be at least as good as mine. Probably better.

As a reminder for those interested in following our prophet's advice, here's the latest I could find on the subject. If anyone knows of something more recent, please share.

"Not only should we have strong spiritual homes, but we should have strong temporal homes. We should avoid bondage by getting out of debt as soon as we can, pay as we go, and live within our incomes. There is wisdom in having on hand a year's supply of food, clothing, fuel (if possible), and in being preparing to defend our families and our possessions and to take care of ourselves. I believe a man should prepare for the worst while working for the best."

Teachings of Ezra Taft Benson, p. 263-264. (1st edition 1988)

LM

Edited October 27, 2008 by Loudmouth_Mormon

[Hemidakota]

LM, years ago when I received countless dreams of the last day, church's trek to Zion, I made that decision to purchase defensive weapon. Within that dream, at first, we were not told to defend ourselves against those who were the enemy of the church; when they literally picking off the weaker saints, until the Prophet made that change. The funny part of those dreams, I was the rear guard in protecting the Saints in those journeys. :)

[breezygirl]

LoudMouth,

May I ask how your wife liked her class? Did she take a class that was just for women or one that was for both men and women? I just finished my NRA basic pistol course this past Saturday. Qualified on the range same day. I really enjoyed the class and have signed up for another class offered by the same instructor for Home Defense. Will your wife be applying for a concealed carry permit?

Hopefully I am not being offensive by being too snoopy I am just excited to hear your wife is doing it too.

PS. Just as a side note I was amazed by how many people were in my class and by how many of those people came as family groups. There were several couples....one entire family of 4..... 2 sets of grandparents with 1 or 2 grandsons with them and several sets of boyfriend/girlfriend couple. There was also at least 6 women who were all over the age of 65 getting their certificates for the permit due to the fact that they no longer feel safe unarmed. Interesting and kind of scary all at the same time.

[rameumptom]

Loud Mouth,

If the Prophet or my bishop ever asks me to arm myself, I will. In my view, the day will come as prophesied that the trials will force the Saints to true repentance and deep humility. In that day, the Lord will fight the battles of Zion, even if he must call down fire from heaven

#

1 Ne. 22: 17

17 Wherefore, he will preserve the righteous by his power, even if it so be that the fulness of his wrath must come, and the righteous be preserved, even unto the destruction of their enemies by fire. Wherefore, the righteous need not fear; for thus saith the prophet, they shall be saved, even if it so be as by fire.

Jesus promised the same when he spoke to the Nephites about the last days. I believe that Zion and her stakes will gather as necessary, and then become so holy and terrible that the wicked will fear to even approach it.

[dalepres]

I am former military (20 years - Go USAF!). I don't own guns or armor. I feel I'm doing just fine listening to the counsel of the prophets. I have my food storage. I am out of debt, except for my home. I have savings in the bank. I grow a garden.

If the day comes when everything collapses, then I'll just turn to my bishop and ask him where he wants me to deliver my food storage, and where the defense and refuge of Zion will be for our ward and stake.

What if it's not the end of the world and there's just a hurricane or tornadoes or an earthquake? Maybe your bishop won't need your food storage and your ward or stake leaders won't be calling you up for the defense of Zion. Maybe you just need to defend your family and their survival resources for a few days.

[rameumptom]

If there is a tornado, earthquake, etc., then I'll share what I have with others in need. And for whatever is stolen, I have insurance.

In my view, my job in life is to help bring people to Christ. I'll do that better by feeding them, than by shooting them (although some would suggest sending them all to God and letting Him sort them out).

[NeuroTypical]

May I ask how your wife liked her class? Did she take a class that was just for women or one that was for both men and women?

She found it very useful. I wouldn't say she enjoyed it, because it's a very sobering undertaking. It was a smaller class than what you describe - one other woman, 3 or 4 men. It was an 8 hour class, geared towards personal protection in the home. They practiced moving and shooting, different stances, very close quarter shooting. Some of the local police were there aiding in the instruction and answering questions. One of the cops was Mormon.

From what I understand, you can find similar NRA-style classes in most every population center in every state that allows folks to arm and defend themselves. I'm a big fan of such training.

LM

[BenRaines]

Rameumpton, my personal defense tools are not to protect my food storage but my wife and daughters virtue. That is worth dying for.

Ben Raines

[UintahJack]

I love guns. They are just cool and fun. Me and my boys go shooting all the time, not at animals, just at targets and clay pigeons. It is something we enjoy doing as a family. I would much rather shoot an animal with a camera, but if you enjoy hunting that is fine too, if you eat what you shoot. I even have a 54 caliber Hawken Muzzleloader. So much fun to shoot. I would love to get a muzzleloader pistol.

[breezygirl]

Loudmouth

I agree with you 200 % about the class being serious about the subject and I did learn an enormous amount. I found the class fun as well though because there was a fair amount of humor from the instructors and during breaks it was good to be able to speak openly about guns with other like minded people and not worry that I was offending someone because I am pro-gun or have others lok at me like Im a nut because I own and enjoy firing my ruger. I believe the second class I am taking in January will be more along the lines of what your wife took . Its a personal protection in the home class.

I have to say I have enjoyed this thread a great deal. Kudos to all for making it a an interesting thread and for keeping it civil. This is a really fantastic group of people!

[Fiannan]

Joseph Smith said that it would be immoral for someone to be prevented from his first obligation of defending himself and his family from those who would do them harm.

[rameumptom]

Who is wanting to deprive anyone their obligation to defend themselves and their families?

[JohnBirchSociety]

Who is wanting to deprive anyone their obligation to defend themselves and their families?

Any group that would infringe upon the 2nd Amendment to the US Constitution would be part of the effort to deprive us of the inalienable right to self-defense.

I'm surprised that you are not aware of such activity.

[Elgama]

I don't see why you can't defend yourself with stuff you have in the house - I have a hockey stick, a poker, drawer full of kitchen knives and I have myself,

-Charley

[JohnBirchSociety]

I don't see why you can't defend yourself with stuff you have in the house - I have a hockey stick, a poker, drawer full of kitchen knives and I have myself,

-Charley

You can, unless confronted by a gun, which is typical in today's society.

The Second Amendment is not just about self-defense, it is also about keeping tyranny at bay.

[BenRaines]

I have always been taught to never take a knife to a gunfight.

Ben Raines

[Elgama]

like i pointed out earlier unless you already have your gun ready to go - at less than 20ft your more likely to get shot. Anyone I know who is in the military or police never felt it was their best defensive weapon it was the best if the you wanted to shoot first - personally think you manage and you fight or you don't depending on your personality at the end of the day weapon is immaterial.

-Charley