Who needs SOAPS when you have Secretsister!

[secretsister]

I kind of thought things were going to hit the fan again after this weekend. It is much, much sooner than normal, but the signs were there. When he gave a talk Sunday, he got overly emotional. I've noticed that he does that when he's about to get nasty. I've been trying hard to be careful how I act and what I say as not to set him off, but alas, it is too unpredictable. Last night, we were reading scriptures together and he got really negative saying he "just can't understand why Christ had to die (after already atoning in Gethsaemane) and why should those who crucified him be held accountable when it was what they were supposed to do." I said something about Christ dying to show us there will be a resurrection and I also said something to the effect of us not being able to understand everything in this life. He got super upset with me and told me I was discounting his feelings. no matter what I said, it was wrong.

He told me he would no longer read scriptures with me. I admitted that we do have difficulty discussing spiritual things, which is why I usually keep my thoughts and questions to myself. He got more angry and said, "OH! I see where we really are in this marriage." He said "this marriage" with disgust. Anyway, he accused me of saying the things I said because I was vengeful.

I apologized and explained that I could see how he may feel I was discounting his feelings, but I assured him that it had not been my intent and there was no vengeance in my heart at all. I told him I was sorry if I hurt his feelings and I certainly didn't mean it. He refused my apology and just kept saying hurtful things.... I don't know what, I tuned it out somewhat. He kept on and on until I reminded him that 30 minutes earlier he had been on his knees praying for God to help us be quick to forgive one another. I told him that if he was going to pray for such things, he should at least make an effort to do it. Then I told him if he wasn't going to do that, then "at least shut up so I can sleep!"

Literally got a grunt/ growl when I said good morning to him today. He didn't speak to me at all and refused to bless the food with me. I guess he's punishing me by doing what I said... shutting up. What a baby!

I spoke with my BP this morning while my daughter was in seminary. He thinks it may be time for him or a stake leader to confront my husband and tell him point blank that he has an illness and needs to get help for it whether he feels he needs it or not. If he cares about his marriage, he needs to do it because HE is destroying it. I suppose I'm ready for that. Except for the temporal concerns.... which are really scary as I gave up my good day job. If I didn't have a mortgage on this house, I'd have no problem just walking away, selling it, whatever.

I also have a missionary out in the field who needs support and has not one clue any of this is happening. I always feel like I can have faith and get through any trial if I have a husband who can get through it with me. That seems not to be my lot in life!

Also, where is the fine line between having faith in a miracle and being realistic?

Thanks... again, for listening,

Secretsister

[Guest ceeboo]

Hello again Secretsister,:)

Different day same stuff

I'll bet you tomorrow will be different day same stuff

Not sure what else to say. To be rather candid with you, I do not think you realize how bad of a situation you are in.

I would suggest you read your posts ( as if it were not you ) and respond to them like you were the one giving the advice.

All I can say is that you, my friend, are in a VERY disrespectfull, Very dangerous, VERY unhealthy, VERY meaningless, VERY fragile realtionship ( NOT A MARRIAGE )

You need to RUN, not walk, away from this male ( NOTICE I DID NOT USE THE WORD MAN) That is earned.

Sorry to be so blunt, I simply do not feel you get what you are faced with.

God bless,

Carl

[RachelleDrew]

I don't think that there is anything that can be done to help your relationship until he gets help.

It doesn't sound like he wants help to me, so until he decides that he does it may be best to stay somewhere else for a while.

It sounds like he is very emotionally disturbed, and it's not wise to play with fire. As ceeb said, I would get away from him until he can get some help.

[checkerboy]

I am sorry to hear this. I have a really good friend that is going through the same with her husband. He is pretty much just like your husband from what I have gathered. It is really scary to think of what needs to be done but the time to do is now. Make sure you talk to your branch pres and get his advice too, but the burden is on you to do what you feel is right.

[Elgama]

I don't know what is wrong with your husband so sorry if my advice is way out there - my husband suffers from periods of severe depression, he got very far down was far from abusive but got quite nasty with my daughter it wsa so sad as before then she was a Daddy's girl and I miss that relationship.

One night I packed my bags and told him he had an hour and half to promise me he would get help and things would change or I was leaving him - I didn't want to but I knew I had to mean it and I did I couldn't go on. It was what he needed and he has sorted himself out.

Can you talk to your Bishop about your son on a mission?

-Charley

Edited October 22, 2008 by Elgama

[Misshalfway]

I am kinda feeling the same thing as Ceeboo. I don't know what the right answers are for your financial concerns, but I know that no one should have to live this way and I know the costs to self are more important than the mortgage.

Perhaps you are right that some kind of intervention is needed to wake him up. If it were me, I might see what he does after that, but plan on leaving if I didn't see some immediate personal responsibility. I wonder if he is so comfortable with you as he counts on you to walk on egg shells around him. I wonder what he would do if your whole posture changed and you didn't put up with it anymore. Would he wake up if he was in fear of losing you?

I think you need to start saying "NO." No, I won't allow myself to be treated like that, and that, and that! No, I won't live with that behavior and this atmosphere! And I think you have to mean it and I think you have to absolutely take steps to make yourself safe. And if that means leaving, then dang it, that means leaving.

And just for the record, I think that God is very very realistic! I don't think he requires marriage partners to be martyrs. I don't think being a martyr inspires change of any sort. And I don't think a "peace at any price" strategy motivates those who are out of control.

May Father in Heaven be with you to help you see the path that you should go. I mean even Nephi was told to separate from his family members to save his life! I think that you are person that now needs to start saving you! And if he doesn't respond to the intervention or to your boundaries and ultimatums, perhaps it is time to make a break and live on your own. It is my experience, that those who are blinded by behavioral issues, are most likely to change when they risk losing what is most important to them.

All my love to you as you find the clarity you need to decide what to do.

[FunkyTown]

Hi Sister,

In a case like this, I honestly don't know what to say. You've gotten advice on this before and the advice has always been the same. We worry for you and we hope you get the relationship you deserve, but you seem to always go back to the exact same place you were before. We can't give any advice. We just have to ask: "Are you happy with where you are now?" because, if nothing is changed, this is the way your life will be for eternity. And tomorrow, and tomorrow and tomorrow.

[RainofGold]

Secretsister,

About 12 years ago my sister in-law came to my house crying because her alcoholic husband didn't come home again and she was very worried. I didn't know what to say to her, she was much older than me and had being married for a long time.

And this was my advice to her "your husband is probably not going to change on his own. So you have two choices, one is to live with him and get used to things so you can be happy or leave him and try to be happy on your own".

I didn't know how she would react to my advice, she just told me thank you and left. She never mention that day again and I completely forgot about it.

Just the other day we were talking and she brought up the conversation and said to me that that was the best advice she's ever gotten. She said she went home had a very serious talk with her husband telling him that he either gets his act together, get sober, start going to AA meetings or pack your bags and leave. To her surprise he chose the first. It wasn't easy, It was a long recovery but a good one. She knew that he wanted to change and make her and the kids happy, so she helped him and that made all the difference.

Everyone here has given you advice, you are going to make the decision. Why waste your life in a miserable marriage. Sometimes women just get used to it and don't think that it can be any different. Maybe you just have to wait until you wake up one day and say I've had enough, I am not going to let this man disrespect me, and treat me like I'm worthless.

Please know that I will pray for you and your husband.

Take care of yourself

Rainofgold

Edited October 23, 2008 by RainofGold

[secretsister]

Hi Sister,

In a case like this, I honestly don't know what to say. You've gotten advice on this before and the advice has always been the same. We worry for you and we hope you get the relationship you deserve, but you seem to always go back to the exact same place you were before. We can't give any advice. We just have to ask: "Are you happy with where you are now?" because, if nothing is changed, this is the way your life will be for eternity. And tomorrow, and tomorrow and tomorrow.

Yes, I came for advice. Mostly, I came to vent. I know what my options are and I do not like any of them at the moment. Have you ever put off acting on something because it was super important and you didn't have any confimation from the Holy Ghost to proceed? Have you ever been afraid to act because it might mean destroying a relationship with someone very important to you? Have you ever struggled being torn between strong feelings of marriage and its importance and breaking your marriage up? Have you ever taken time to grieve the loss of something you really loved or do you just "get over it."

I've only been to 3 therapy sessions and spoke to my BP for the first time a few weeks ago. I've been hit with the reality that my husband probably has a mental disorder. Trust me, I hear all of you. I know what you are saying. But, I need time to process all of this, grieve the loss of what I thought I would have when I got a strong confirmation to go ahead and marry him. My way of processing is to talk it out, so I can think about it more clearly. When I post what happens here, it saves my friend from being dragged down too much. She always listens because she loves me, but I know it isn't easy. You do NOT have to read my posts nor respond, but I still get to vent and the ones who do respond give me courage and strength... really, you do.

Secretsister

[RainofGold]

Hi Secretsister,

I hear your pain and frustration. I understand that you are probably just looking for a place to vent and let everything out.

In that case I pray that you can find the strength that you need to make the best of each day. And for your husband's heart to soften and realize that he needs help and that he is a lucky man to have a patient and understanding wife like you.

Rainofgold

[Misshalfway]

Yes, I came for advice. Mostly, I came to vent. I know what my options are and I do not like any of them at the moment. Have you ever put off acting on something because it was super important and you didn't have any confimation from the Holy Ghost to proceed? Have you ever been afraid to act because it might mean destroying a relationship with someone very important to you? Have you ever struggled being torn between strong feelings of marriage and its importance and breaking your marriage up? Have you ever taken time to grieve the loss of something you really loved or do you just "get over it."

I've only been to 3 therapy sessions and spoke to my BP for the first time a few weeks ago. I've been hit with the reality that my husband probably has a mental disorder. Trust me, I hear all of you. I know what you are saying. But, I need time to process all of this, grieve the loss of what I thought I would have when I got a strong confirmation to go ahead and marry him. My way of processing is to talk it out, so I can think about it more clearly. When I post what happens here, it saves my friend from being dragged down too much. She always listens because she loves me, but I know it isn't easy. You do NOT have to read my posts nor respond, but I still get to vent and the ones who do respond give me courage and strength... really, you do.

Secretsister

I completely get what you are saying here.

I was just thinking here that within every marriage and relationship even, we need to learn to take care with ourselves. I mean, if your H is truly ill and there isn't really good medical treatments (i don't know one way or the other), it seems to me that you might find yourself in kind of a care giver role and anyone in that roll has to take time out to nurture and recharge themselves.

I don't know what you will choose in terms of outcomes or in terms of coping strategies, but make your self care a priority while you pass thru the indecision and the conflict. You don't have to leave someone to take care of yourself with protective boundaries and setting boundaries doesn't mean you don't love and that you aren't committed.

Sometimes when we are so close to a situation for long periods of time, the emotion clouds things and exhausts our senses so they don't works as well for us. Maybe a good weekend away at a B&B just take your mind off things or heal a bit or reconnect with your inner self might be a good thing. Maybe just taking yourself out of the situation long enough to get your bearings. Maybe getting clear of it for a time would help you revisit the issues with fresh courage and new wisdom.

Best wishes to you my dear. I am so sorry that these situations are so very very hard. Whoever said marriage wouldn't be easy, was soooo right!

Hugs.

[applepansy]

Yes, I came for advice. Mostly, I came to vent. I know what my options are and I do not like any of them at the moment. Have you ever put off acting on something because it was super important and you didn't have any confimation from the Holy Ghost to proceed? Have you ever been afraid to act because it might mean destroying a relationship with someone very important to you? Have you ever struggled being torn between strong feelings of marriage and its importance and breaking your marriage up? Have you ever taken time to grieve the loss of something you really loved or do you just "get over it."

I've only been to 3 therapy sessions and spoke to my BP for the first time a few weeks ago. I've been hit with the reality that my husband probably has a mental disorder. Trust me, I hear all of you. I know what you are saying. But, I need time to process all of this, grieve the loss of what I thought I would have when I got a strong confirmation to go ahead and marry him. My way of processing is to talk it out, so I can think about it more clearly. When I post what happens here, it saves my friend from being dragged down too much. She always listens because she loves me, but I know it isn't easy. You do NOT have to read my posts nor respond, but I still get to vent and the ones who do respond give me courage and strength... really, you do.

Secretsister

'Dear secretsister,

Yes I've been in the situation where I didn't have a confirmation from the Holy Ghost to proceed. What I learned is that sometimes the answer is "Its your choice" And when that's the answer you won't get a confirmation until you choose which road you want to go down. We have our agency and Heavenly Father isn't going to allow a confirmation that will infringe on your agency.

Yes, I had to make a decision about my marriage. Fortunately when I confronted my husband with his behavior he chose to change. Its a long story and involves my physical status changing which of course changed our marriage. My situation differed from yours in the circumstances but the core of deciding how you will be treated is the same.

We teach people how we want to be treated by how we react to how they treat us. There was a time when I rejected this truth. When I changed how I reacted to inappropriate anger then my husband's anger changed. Instead of being angry with me for being ill, he was able to direct his anger at the problem and become my partner again.

I have also watched my younger sister go through a blatantly abusive relationship. They are divorcing and things are better already for her and the children when they are with her.

You already know you are the only person who can make decisions about change in your life and circumstances. We are here to support you. You can vent anytime. However, the more we hear about your circumstances the more I want to bundle you up and move you out to a safe place.

I'm glad you are close to your BP and that he is willing to help. Do not worry about the financial issues. Your husband can make mortgage payments. Your son's mission can be paid for by the church if necessary. There are resources to help you get on your feet. Do not let that be the reason you stay in an unsafe situation.

with love,

applepansy

[WANDERER]

Confirmation.....you know I had this boyfriend, didn't work out, and it was all pretty messy...I really didn't understand why, you know, quite sad for the both of us really.

Apparently he had like this lump and had been ignoring it...bit of a macho male thing/doctors etc. He'd never talked about it when we were together...yes I know...*cough*.... not a whole lot of trust there after all. He used to say dramatic things like I could die and no one would even notice and then laugh it off...not a whole lot...just the ocassional morose thing that seemed really out of place with his personality because it was all a bit dramatic.

Anyway a lot of our conversations on stuff showed that we had different perspectives on things. I took him to the dollar shop to get a Christmas tree and decorations and stuff...because even if you live alone you should do stuff for yourself that you would do for others or would do if you weren't living alone, because if you can't take care of yourself and do stuff for yourself... how can you take care of others etc..he had to work on Xmas day and yeah that's not fun...but making the best out of things is what people do.

He went to a doctor after we broke up, (we broke up on my birthday of all things *hindsight...ouch*..), because he was feeling rather lousy etc. Turned out he had to have the tumour removed. Oh, he was fine : ) . End of story.

So the thing is...you don't know what is going on...the whys and wherefores sometimes and sometimes you don't get to know. Glad he finally saw a doctor...but why couldn't he have done that for himself in a relationship...erk. Anyway I felt bad about not seeing the signs...what kind of girlfriend was I and all that. Hey, he could have died from this tumour...you know...months of stewing about it until the all-clear.

On our first date he had burnt his hand ironing his shirt...went through the whole dinner evening hiding it...untreated...and I didn't know...but it was pretty badly burnt. I found out two days later when he winced and then he wouldn't let me look at it or put cream on it. He never did put anything on it. He did stuff like that.

Not great. Sometimes a relationship has a way of bringing out other issues to the forefront...and sometimes it just has to fall apart when it enables behaviours that are self-destructive. It wasn't a mistake to date him...nice guy and all. And yet...somewhat.

I definitely pray and seek God's will on things in my life in all areas. Act of faith...even when there's not much to go on. Yes it's only human to go why couldn't things work out perfectly..but you know perfectly according to what I think is the perfect plan...Doh!

[secretsister]

We teach people how we want to be treated by how we react to how they treat us. There was a time when I rejected this truth. When I changed how I reacted to inappropriate anger then my husband's anger changed. Instead of being angry with me for being ill, he was able to direct his anger at the problem and become my partner again.

Applepansy,

Thank you for this. I'd like to hear more about. What exactly do you mean and can you give me some examples?

Thanks,

Secretsister

[Guest DeborahC]

I suggest anybody having marital or relationship problems read Getting The Love You Want along with their scriptures. It can save your life and your marriage.

If you're single, you might try Keeping the Love YOu Find to figure out why you choose the partners you do.

Both are by Harville Hendrix and are EXCELLENT!

Sometimes people act the way they do and they don't know WHY -- this book helps us to see why and it'll blow your mind!

Take a chance . . . read it.

I promise you'll be amazed...

Edited October 23, 2008 by DeborahC

[countrygirl66]

keep posting secret sister. It is a good safe place to post and vent without and repercussions. We are all just worried about you and want to see you safe. Take gentle care we are here to listen and talk if you need us.

[applepansy]

Applepansy,

Thank you for this. I'd like to hear more about. What exactly do you mean and can you give me some examples?

Thanks,

Secretsister

I'll try. . . its been a long time and really the "forgive and forget" does work. I guess what I'll do is explain what I do now.

When my husband gets upset about something, doesn't matter what, I calmly tell him I'm not arguing and I walk away. This works for any behavior I don't feel I should put up with, such as, mean-spirited sarcasm, disrespect, etc. Sometimes we'll be in the middle of a discussion when the tone of the discussion changes and as soon as it does, I explain that I won't argue and I walk out. He even uses this on me now if I'm yelling about something. I did seriously throw a meal away when my family complained. . . it was good too. Well I thought so anyway. . . watching me throw a meal away shut them all up. After than incident I got "thanks" when I cooked.

With my husband's behavior since I changed how I "fight" he has changed how he "fights". There will always be disagreements in marriages, so its important to "fight" fair. Personal insults are not to be tolerated. If the personal insults start, then the argument/discussion is over until everyone can calm down.

Now when he's off on a tangent, usually about our adult children, I only have to give him a look and walk out of the room. He gets it. My kids get it faster.

My situation is different than yours in that my husband has never been intentionally disrespectful to me. If he had that would have been shut down real fast. I don't tolerate disrespect, period. My children learned quickly as teenagers that if they wanted a nice Mom who would drive them to their events that they had to be respectful.

When we tolerate or excuse bad behavior from anyone we are telling them that its ok for them to treat us in that way. It should never be ok. . . it should never be excused.

With the Lord all things are possible. . . Keep praying.

applepansy

P.S. After I posted I remember an incident that was a big turning point for our marriage. I had gotten chronically ill. My health was not going to change for the better. I had been struggling with it for about 10 years. My husband had a really hard time accepting that life had changed and blamed me. If I would only do this or that or something else, then we'd be back to normal. One day while driving home from counseling at the pain clinic I said to him. "I know this is hard for you. You do not deserve to live with a sick person. This is not what you thought our marriage would be. If you want a divorce then I'm ok with that, because I can no longer live with your anger at me for something that isn't my fault. Your anger and the contention is making me sicker instead or allowing me to concentrate on getting as well as I can be." He was quiet immediately. It took him awhile to answer too. He gave it thought. He chose to stay and he chose to act better. I let him know it was ok to grieve for the person I used to be, but that it wasn't anyone's fault. This incident really changed a lot about our marriage. We became partners in a very real sense.

Edited October 30, 2008 by applepansy
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