Word of Wisdom and Vegetarianism

[bodhigirlsmiles]

good morning! i have a question for anyone who cares to answer. i received a copy of the word of wisdom from a friend, and i find it to be a very beautiful document! many of the items mentioned within the body of the text are things i follow every day as a buddhist. i took a vow many years ago to refrain from intoxicating substances, and i believe, if i am reading the word of wisdom correctly, this is prohibited for lds people as well. i have a question about a certain portion of the word of wisdom....

and again, verily I say unto you, all wholesome aherbs God hath ordained for the constitution, nature, and use of man—

every herb in the season thereof, and every fruit in the season thereof; all these to be used with aprudence and bthanksgiving.

yea, flesh also of beasts and of the fowls of the air, I, the Lord, have ordained for the use of man with thanksgiving; nevertheless they are to be used sparingly;

and it is pleasing unto me that they should not be aused, only in times of winter, or of cold, or famine.

all grain is ordained for the use of man and of beasts, to be the staff of life, not only for man but for the beasts of the field, and the fowls of heaven, and all wild animals that run or creep on the earth;

and these hath God made for the use of man only in times of famine and excess of hunger.

all grain is good for the food of man; as also the fruit of the vine; that which yieldeth fruit, whether in the ground or above the ground—

nevertheless, wheat for man, and corn for the ox, and oats for the horse, and rye for the fowls and for swine, and for all beasts of the field, and barley for all useful animals, and for mild drinks, as also other grain.

and all saints who remember to keep and do these sayings, walking in obedience to the commandments, shall receive health in their navel and marrow to their bones;

and shall find wisdom and great treasures of knowledge, even hidden treasures;

and shall run and not be weary, and shall walk and not faint.

my first question is this....are lds people vegetarians or vegans? i had never heard this, but i was curious. as a strict buddhist, i do not eat animal flesh of any kind (including oceanic life).

my second question is....where it says, "health in their navel and marrow to their bones," what does this mean? sorry if that is a stupid question!

[bodhigirlsmiles]

i just now saw that there is another thread called "word of wisdom"....i apologize for not posting there with my thread!

[Truegrits]

my first question is this....are lds people vegetarians or vegans? i had never heard this, but i was curious. as a strict buddhist, i do not eat animal flesh of any kind (including oceanic life).

No, LDS (as a group) are not vegetarians. The ones I know eat meat as much as most Americans. I am from the south, and people here pretty much eat meat at every meal, and most of it is fried.

(BTW...I am a vegetarian, and LDS):)

[bodhigirlsmiles]

No, LDS (as a group) are not vegetarians. The ones I know eat meat as much as most Americans. I am from the south, and people here pretty much eat meat at every meal, and most of it is fried.

(BTW...I am a vegetarian, and LDS):)

:lol::lol:

thank you for your answer. i want to ask my next question delicately, as i do NOT wish to offend but am sincerely curious....

how can the sections of the word of wisdom be interpreted as other than to mean that meat is not to be eaten (except during famine, etc)?

or is it that the parts about not drinking strong drinks or using tobacco, for example, are more weighty than the others?

again, i hope i am not causing offense, i am just curious.

truegrits....do you find it difficult being a vegetarian in a largely meat-eating environment?

[Elgama]

Its a personal decision - personally I do what it says and eat only a little meat try to keep it to the Winter, I can't eat meat when I see the animal trucks going past my windows. Plus we are healthier when meat is an occasional treat, less colds, more energy, less bad tempered. Which I guess is part of the promise coming to bear.

-Charley

[NeuroTypical]

D&C 89 seems clear enough: meat "should not be used, only in times of winter/cold/famine".

So, going directly to LDS.com and looking up the chapter, here's what you'll see:

Note the comma after the phrase "should not be used".

Compare that with a copy of the same section, out of an original 1835 Book of Commandments:

Note the absence of a comma after the phrase "should not be used". It seems to have changed places, and now appears right after "it is pleasing unto me". This changes the sentence structure, and changes the meaning of the sentence.

The original text reads 'They should not be used only in times of winter/cold/famine'. In other words, anyone telling you meat is only for winter/cold/famine isn't telling you what the Lord thinks.

Compare to D&C 49:18-19 "And whoso forbiddeth to abstain from meats, that man should not eat the same, is not ordained of God; For, behold, the beasts of the field and the fowls of the air, and that which cometh of the earth, is ordained for the use of man for food and for raiment, and that he might have in abundance."

See, back in Joseph Smith's day, there was indeed a sort of 'religious diet fad' of the day, advocating limiting or eliminating meats from our diet. D&C 49 explicitly counters this idea. The original Book of Commandments Word of Wisdom section explicitly counters this idea. Somewhere, as we fallible humans added verse structure and tried to publish new editions, a comma crept in, and made it harder to understand.

This line of reasoning sort of springs from me here. I haven't heard anyone else mention this comma - certainly I've not heard any church leader mention it. So take my post for what it's worth - the opinion of some random Loudmouth Mormon. If anyone has information to the contrary, I'm certainly willing to change my tune.

(Unfortunately for us all-you-can-eat buffet lovers, the word "sparingly" seems consistent, unambiguous, clear, and unchanged.)

LM

Edited October 28, 2008 by Loudmouth_Mormon

[Elgama]

:lol::lol:

thank you for your answer. i want to ask my next question delicately, as i do NOT wish to offend but am sincerely curious....

how can the sections of the word of wisdom be interpreted as other than to mean that meat is not to be eaten (except during famine, etc)?

or is it that the parts about not drinking strong drinks or using tobacco, for example, are more weighty than the others?

again, i hope i am not causing offense, i am just curious.

truegrits....do you find it difficult being a vegetarian in a largely meat-eating environment?

Basically and it does say in the section or the heading - section 89 is a guideline - later tea, coffee, tobacco, alcohol and misuse of drugs became commandments. The advice and the promises still stand but they are guidelines.

As Latter Day Saints there is a lot to do and learn we recognise we are human or should do and that we can only learn a bit at a time - less meat, eating healthily was something I learned because I have Fibromyalgia.

We have some things we absolutely have to do but others its better if we do for example for years I didn't keep a journal despite being seriously advised to by the prophets now I do I understand the importance of one.

-Charley

[Truegrits]

true rits....do you find it difficult being a vegetarian in a largely meat-eating environment?

Here, in Georgia, yes! At all the Church functions, I will be the only one with a meatless main dish...:)...even the potatoes will have ham or bacon in them!

In south Florida, with a more varied population, there was not the problem; more vegetarians there.:)

[MarginOfError]

Taking this discussion to include a broader range of scripture, from the New Testament we have

Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;

2 Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;

3 Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.

4 For every creature of God is good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving:

5 For it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer. (1 Tim 4:1-5, emphasis added)

I've seen some instances within the Church where the debate about eating meat has gotten quite heated. My wife attended a seminar at Stake Women's Conference last year that bluntly stated that meat is against the Word of Wisdom. She even went so far as to say that even vegetarians don't strictly adhere to the Word of Wisdom, and that vegan is the way to go. I'm certain she can't say that doctrinally, and she seems to be a bit of an extremist to me, but I won't argue there is something to be said for abstaining from meat.

From my personal observations and study, I've noticed that not all vegetarians are particularly healthy. I've even heard it said that if you want to see a really sick person, go to a health food store. The issue, as I see it, is that there are certain nutrients that we need that are conveniently found in meat, and less conveniently found in other sources.

The bottom line for me is this: we need our bodies to be healthy, and that includes getting a good balance of vitamins, minerals, proteins, and fats. It is possible to get these solely from non-animal sources, but generally requires more study, effort, and dedication. If a person can and is willing to put forth the extra effort to maintain their health on non-animal sources, then they should do so, and I do not doubt they will receive great blessings for doing so. For others who lack the motivation, knowledge, or capacity to learn or abide by vegetarianism, eating meat as part of a properly balanced diet is an easy way to obtain the proteins and fats required for good health.

I do not, under any circumstances, place one lifestyle above the other in righteousness.

[MarginOfError]

Note the absence of a comma after the phrase "should not be used". It seems to have changed places, and now appears right after "it is pleasing unto me". This changes the sentence structure, and changes the meaning of the sentence....

This line of reasoning sort of springs from me here. I haven't heard anyone else mention this comma - certainly I've not heard any church leader mention it. So take my post for what it's worth - the opinion of some random Loudmouth Mormon. If anyone has information to the contrary, I'm certainly willing to change my tune.

LM

I appreciate the knowledge. I would be hesitant to base an argument on that as it was the First Presidency and Quorum of the Twelve who approved the printing of the current addition with the comma in place.

For all I know, the extra comma was an oversight, but I'm just not ready to base my entire explanation on that.

I do agree with everything else you said!

[Elgama]

Taking this discussion to include a broader range of scripture, from the New Testament we have

I've seen some instances within the Church where the debate about eating meat has gotten quite heated. My wife attended a seminar at Stake Women's Conference last year that bluntly stated that meat is against the Word of Wisdom. She even went so far as to say that even vegetarians don't strictly adhere to the Word of Wisdom, and that vegan is the way to go. I'm certain she can't say that doctrinally, and she seems to be a bit of an extremist to me, but I won't argue there is something to be said for abstaining from meat.

.

I am sure someone will know the verse its somewhere in Paul's writings which states we are not to preach abstaining from meat as doctine?

-Charley

[bodhigirlsmiles]

See, back in Joseph Smith's day, there was indeed a sort of 'religious diet fad' of the day, advocating limiting or eliminating meats from our diet. D&C 49 explicitly counters this idea. The original Book of Commandments Word of Wisdom section explicitly counters this idea. Somewhere, as we fallible humans added verse structure and tried to publish new editions, a comma crept in, and made it harder to understand.

LM

that is certainly much much clearer. following that, would you say, in your belief, that god created animals for the purpose of food and raiment? was this their only reason for creation?

p.s. the comma had not gone unnoticed to me. i teach english, and i am always fond of anyone who pays attention to grammar! :)

[MarginOfError]

that is certainly much much clearer. following that, would you say, in your belief, that god created animals for the purpose of food and raiment? was this their only reason for creation?

p.s. the comma had not gone unnoticed to me. i teach english, and i am always fond of anyone who pays attention to grammar! :)

let's not forget entertainment. Who doesn't enjoy a good laugh at a monkey's antics?

[Moksha]

(BTW...I am a vegetarian, and LDS):)

Then eatest thou righteous vegtables and partakest thou not the rotten fruit.

[Elgama]

Found it 1 Timothy 4:1-5

1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to cseducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;

2 Speaking alies in hypocrisy; having their cconscience seared with a hot iron;

3 aForbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from dmeats, which God hath created to be received with fthanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.

4 For every creature of God is good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving:

5 For it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer.

I have always taken it to mean that whilst D&C advises abstaining from meat or only eating a little meat - noone is to command it either - we have certainly had a couple of prophets for whom meat was an occasional treat

-Charley

[Truegrits]

MOE, I have also seen unhealthy people, that happened to be vegetarians. I see unhealthy people that are meat eaters. For me, it works. I am a very healthy person, that never missed a day of school, or missed a day of work. Even working in a hospital, and coming in contact with all kinds of sick people, I never missed a day of work in twenty years. Now, am I healthy because of genetics, or because of my lifestyle? Maybe both...:)

[hordak]

14 All grain is ordained for the use of man and of beasts, to be the staff of life, not only for man but for the beasts of the field, and the fowls of heaven, and all wild animals that run or creep on the earth;

15 And these hath God made for the use of man only in times of famine and excess of hunger.

Wild animals (game) are prohibited. Yet not enforced by the church

[bodhigirlsmiles]

let's not forget entertainment. Who doesn't enjoy a good laugh at a monkey's antics?

i used to have a monkey as a pet! she was certainly entertaining....

[BenRaines]

I don't eat any meat that is still breathing.

Ben Raines

[bytor2112]

No, LDS (as a group) are not vegetarians. The ones I know eat meat as much as most Americans. I am from the south, and people here pretty much eat meat at every meal, and most of it is fried.

(BTW...I am a vegetarian, and LDS):)

and most of the vegetables are fried too.....

[Truegrits]

and most of the vegetables are fried too.....

:lol:Isn't that the truth!! My family does not "toast" bread, they fry it!!!

[bodhigirlsmiles]

:lol:Isn't that the truth!! My family does not "toast" bread, they fry it!!!

as do all the navajos....fry bread....oh, wait, that's different

(the navajo fry bread is excellent, by the way.)

[Bookmeister]

"Vegetarian" is an old indian word for "bad hunter"...

And I wasn't put at the top of the food chain to graze at the salad bar....

And if God wanted man to eat fish, He would have put hooves on them.....

And I believed all of that right up until the end of May of this year. Then I had my gastric bypass and learned that my body (as opposed to my mind, which is still carnivorous) doesn't really care much any more for meat except the occasional shrimp or (oddly enough) piece of bacon.

Still, when I weigh the Sunday pot roast against the 140 pounds I've lost so far, I can get by without the meat.

But.....(sigh)

[SkyWishes]

Hi! I am LDS and personally I don't eat meat every day. Usually 1 to 2 times a week. (Sunday dinner and Friday take away) This is more my personal choice though. It does say that we should eat meat SPARINGLY, and I feel it's a little wasteful to eat animals every day as well as unescary (i am also a big animal lover and that too most probably influences this disesicion of mine). Most LDS friends I know limit their meat intake also.

Your second question made me smile. In the quieter villages of china for example (I remember a story some one told me tho I can't remember the exact geographical location) but their diet is very simple. There is no tabacco, drugs or alchohol. They eat a very simple diet, fish, rice, basic vegetables. Without really knowing it they are living the word of wisdom. These people are living into their late 90 and event he 100s! I feel this is proof that when we keep the word of wisdom, we will be very healthy indeed.

It's a bit like a promise from our Father in Heaven. :) Keep the word of wisdom and live a long healthy life! :)

[Islander]

I would suggest we seek diligently what the brethren have said then and now about the WoW before we state it is a "suggestion", or that it is "personal decision."

It is a commandment and a requirement in order to excessive one's full stewardship and privileges within the church.

"The Word of Wisdom put restrictions on members of the Church. To this day those regulations apply to every member and to everyone who seeks to join the Church. They are so compelling that no one is to be baptized into the Church without first agreeing to live by them. No one will be called to teach or to lead unless they accept them. When you want to go to the temple, you will be asked if you keep the Word of Wisdom. If you do not, you cannot go to the house of the Lord until you are fully worthy."

Ensign » 1996 » May

"The Word of Wisdom: The Principle and the Promises"

President Boyd K. Pacer

Acting President of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles