declanr Posted November 6, 2008 Report Share Posted November 6, 2008 (edited) Greetings, Over the last month or so I have been reading the book or Mormon, meeting with the missionaries, actively researching online, i have even been living the word of wisdom as of late. Below was my process and thoughts, any feedback is welcome. When I started out the missionaries told me to read and pray so that I may gain a testimony of the book of mormon. So i did this, it felt good. But the feeling was not different from when I read and prayed about the bible, the Torah, or the eight fold path to enlightenment, etc. This faith validation the missionaries were asking for is what every missionary from every other religion asks for. If I let this feeling or faith be my only guide, I could easily come to conclusion billions of others do, that a different religion besides the LDS one is true. So then I thought, well, time to do some good ol' fashion research, look at the history of the church, its doctrine, the people who started it. Since it is one of the most recent religions the history is somewhat modern and should be well documented. The book of Mormon documented rather recent events considering what other historians face, so I looked to those aspects. I ended up making a chart, listing each significant issue I found, I then took each item separately-(for example the credibility of Joseph Smith), I listed pro/con information from both apologetic and "anti", or other sources. At the end of each element was a for or against conclusion, I went through quite a number of items and had a big list with a lot of mini conclusions. Overall The "against" ended up outweighing the "fors". Not by a huge margin, but they were of critical enough importance to not be overlooked. The more I thought about the whole story, (Joseph with the rock in the hat dictating the book from plates and angel gave him and took back) seems to strain my senses of reason. Then I thought well, the bible has some rather incredible stories, including the fact that Jesus was resurrected and died for our sins. The need for a God to send his son for a blood atonement strains reason. Is it justice to kill someone who did not commit a crime and then let off the criminal? No, its compounded injustice. Anyhow, I concluded that first I need to investigate and get a testimony of is Christ, if I can do that, then I can come back and look through those glasses at the LDS church once again. Thanks to everyone who answered my questions, I enjoyed interacting with you all (except John Doe). Perhaps I'll drop back by sometime, or pop into chat to say hello... best regards, Dec Edited November 6, 2008 by declanr Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elgama Posted November 6, 2008 Report Share Posted November 6, 2008 your spot on if you don't have a testimony of Christ and its where God wants you to be I don't think its worth being LDS - good luck with your journey. I know the Church is true but it took me many years to say that rather than the Church is where God wants me to be and is true for me. And I wouldnt change my journey its made me a better Latter Day Saint -Charley Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john doe Posted November 6, 2008 Report Share Posted November 6, 2008 Hey, declanr, come back anytime you have honest questions not pasted directly from an anti-LDS website. I wish you well in your search for the truth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hemidakota Posted November 6, 2008 Report Share Posted November 6, 2008 Dec, being a former computer engineer, I can testify, we had the technology to fill crystals with data storage by laser. Is that far fetch? What is the different from Joseph's rock in a hat? Neat technology though! Not only you have dense storage capacities, it can translate as a computer, and a viewing screen in a neat little package. Not forgetting, we have wearable fabric computer electronics, roll-up video screens, and can easily be part of our daily clothes. Patrick Smith, a friend from DARPA worked on this type of technology back in the early 1999. Science or just plain fiction...not even a question to be considered when we are approaching the same. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
declanr Posted November 7, 2008 Author Report Share Posted November 7, 2008 Dec, being a former computer engineer, I can testify, we had the technology to fill crystals with data storage by laser. Is that far fetch? What is the different from Joseph's rock in a hat? Neat technology though! Not only you have dense storage capacities, it can translate as a computer, and a viewing screen in a neat little package. Not forgetting, we have wearable fabric computer electronics, roll-up video screens, and can easily be part of our daily clothes. Patrick Smith, a friend from DARPA worked on this type of technology back in the early 1999. Science or just plain fiction...not even a question to be considered when we are approaching the same.Very cool, what is the difference? One can be explained by science and proven/tested, the other (Josephs stone/hat) cannot, and is unconfirmed by science and history... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theBUBBAMANcan Posted November 7, 2008 Report Share Posted November 7, 2008 Dec, I wish that I could make your search simpler for you. All I can say is that FAITH is all about what's in your heart...not your head. Living by the Word of Wisdom is an excellent place to start. Prayers are answered. Good luck, Bubbaman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john doe Posted November 7, 2008 Report Share Posted November 7, 2008 Religion cannot be proven with science. That's a given. Looking for scientific proof is fruitless when it comes to the things of God. Evidences, however, are found by those who truly seek with faith. When you learn to see, you will be amazed at what you will find. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BenRaines Posted November 7, 2008 Report Share Posted November 7, 2008 Good luck in your search of testimony of Jesus Christ. Without that there is no reason for a testimony of anything else. Some interesting stories from Bible, Sea opens and people walk across on dry land, Earth covered with water after rain for 40 days and 40 nights, talking donkey, Christ walking on water, death and resurrection of Christ, Lazarus coming back after being dead for three days. Healed lepers, blind, lame, etc. A testimony of Christ is the most important. Ben Raines Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a-train Posted November 7, 2008 Report Share Posted November 7, 2008 Seek direct revelation. How do we get it? There is only one way: Repentance. -a-train Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prisonchaplain Posted November 7, 2008 Report Share Posted November 7, 2008 Seeing that the OP questions the basic premise of Christianity, I'd suggest an even more basic search that which church is true. Rather, seek to find God himself? Does he really exist? Is he one or many? Is he good or bad, or a mixture, like us? Is he all powerful? Most religions teach that sincere seekers will find God. Once you find him, he'll tell you where to go and how to get there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hemidakota Posted November 7, 2008 Report Share Posted November 7, 2008 Very cool, what is the difference? One can be explained by science and proven/tested, the other (Josephs stone/hat) cannot, and is unconfirmed by science and history...History is a proven point. However, left in the hand of Science in proving many events of this world for the last 6000 years, they would gladly dispell truths and fill the world with fables. Also, let you know, that very stone that Joseph used, now resides in the archives of the Historical Department of the Church. Now! What was your conclusion of the church? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hemidakota Posted November 7, 2008 Report Share Posted November 7, 2008 Most religions teach that sincere seekers will find God. Once you find him, he'll tell you where to go and how to get there.Yes! Eventually our hope and faith turns into knowledge of that GOD, when we go through those trials of life. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
declanr Posted November 7, 2008 Author Report Share Posted November 7, 2008 History is a proven point. However, left in the hand of Science in proving many events of this world for the last 6000 years, they would gladly dispell truths and fill the world with fables. Also, let you know, that very stone that Joseph used, now resides in the archives of the Historical Department of the Church. Now! What was your conclusion of the church? I hate to rain on your parade here, but the earth is around 4.5 BILLION years old, that is not a point of scientific debate. Some history is a proven point, some is not, heck meet a historian and have a discussion someday! Thats cool they still have the stone, does it float or glow or something :) If it did, you might be converting me very quickly!Dec Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Misshalfway Posted November 7, 2008 Report Share Posted November 7, 2008 Anyhow, I concluded that first I need to investigate and get a testimony of is Christ, if I can do that, then I can come back and look through those glasses at the LDS church once again.Well, this is the absolute purpose of the BofM. It was written for the purpose of convincing all of us that Jesus is the Christ. So much of its message is a direct and indirect invitation to Come unto Christ.Good luck in your journey towards truth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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