Homosexuality...

[Oligith1]

Since none have responded negatively to my introduction post and my sharing that I could be considered gay (yet), I'm guessing that I can feel free to go ahead and share my thoughts and feelings on the subject.

As a prelude to the whole thing: I would not consider myself an expert on the subject, I have not done any scientific research myself though I have read every little tidbit I could find of the kind, and I am not a psychologist or psychiatrist. What I am is a guy who has lived through my life which happens to include homosexuality and as a result I've had a vested interest in finding out as much as I can about it. Since I rather enjoy reading things that I don't have to read and being well versed in the uses of the internet, I have used my eyes well enough to be able to come up with more than a few observations on the subject.

I'd like to start with the nature vs. nurture debate. It is my opinion that the whole debate is a red herring. All the debate serves is to draw us away from the fact that regardless of the source of an individual's homosexuality we are still all human. Being human means that we are more than just animals with instincts. Being human means that we can choose how respond to stimuli. Being human means that even if some scientist does manage to do what no other scientist has yet to accomplish and prove beyond any doubt that homosexual desires are 100% linked to a specific gene code, and if you have that gene code you will have those desires no matter what you do, you still have the ability to choose not to give heed to those desires.

Yes, I believe in choice. You see, I am attracted to men. I see an attractive man with just his shirt off, and I immediately feel my sexual urges jump to the fore. Conversely, I see a woman completely naked, and I feel a little grossed out before I turn away. This does not mean that I go running after guys. I am still a member of the church, and I do have morals.

Some of you may have noticed in my introduction that I am married and do indeed have kids. Yes, I did father them. No Artificial Insemination required. How is that possible given my "knee-jerk" feelings?

Well, I found a woman that I was completely compatible with and we became really good friends. Given that President Hinkley counselled us to "choose our love and love our choice," and I could easily see spending eternity with this wonderful person, I asked her to marry me. On our honeymoon, I found that physical attraction isn't necessary for sex if the emotional attraction is strong enough. If it doesn't cross the line, I'd even say that it helps in the actual act due to the fact that I just don't lose control during it, and so it lasts as long as we want it to before we end it (tactful enough?). Suffice it to say that my wife is almost always completely satisfied in the end. *whistles innocently*

Does that mean that I no longer have the attraction towards men? Hardly. I must admit that I struggle with it every day. In fact, not too long ago I led something of a double life due to the attraction (from shortly after we married till almost two years ago). I do regret the heartache it caused my wife, but all has been revealed, the proper channels followed, discipline received, and our relationship is stronger than ever.

I've been to counselling and have spoken in length with a psychologist...maybe a psychiatrist...I always get the terms mixed up. I learned the source, for me, of my attraction and have come to terms with it. I have obviously been to the bishop, stake president, and disciplinary council and am currently disfellowshipped, but if all goes well, I should be reinstated in the beginning of next year.

Also during the last couple years I have read everything I can find on this subject (and I'm still open to other suggested readings -- presently, I perfer scientific studies and rumors of why a person is just "that way" so I can find out the real study and what it really found). You know what I've found? No study has successfully found any one thing that all homosexuals have in common. This is in the genetic research, the brain studies, social studies, and a myriad of other studies (comparitive finger sizes? *sighs*). My conclusion? The source of homosexual feelings is far too complicated to define simply, and in the end it does not matter where they come from as I've explained above.

Another observation of note is the differing definitions of the term "Homosexuality" or "Being Gay." It seems to me that the Gay community and their supporters define Homosexuality as having same sex attraction regardless as to whether you act on that attraction or not. It also seems to me that those who are opposed to the Gay movement define Homosexuality as actually having sex with other members of your gender or people who have sex with other members of their gender. I could be wrong. I'm no expert after all, but as words are really defined by their usage, it really could cause problems if people don't see eye to eye on a word.

You see, I can understand what the Gay community means when they say that you don't have a choice in being Homosexual. They mean that if you are gay you are attracted to your same gender regardless of your moral upbringing. I would still argue that you can still choose how you react to that attraction, whether you give it life, so to speak, or not, but that still would not detract from their arguement that you are still gay regardless of your actions. In a conversation I had with a gay friend the term "non-practicing gay" came up. I rolled my eyes, but I see what they mean.

I also see why they would say that they have no choice in another way. You see, I've tried, and tried very hard many times to banish the feelings completely. I've tried to reprogram myself, so to speak, many times using many different methods. I've tried fasting and prayer, I've begged my Savior to take this from me, I've tried priesthood blessings, I've completely altered my location and circumstances, I've...well, just believe me when I say that if you can think of a suggestion for me, odds are that I've already tried it. The feelings don't just go away. I'm starting to believe that they aren't meant to, but that is a topic for another time. Hence, if they can't get rid of the feelings, they have no choice as to whether the feelings come or not. And since they believe Homosexuality is defined by just having the feelings, then, in their view, Homosexuality is not a choice.

But...and this is a big BUT...there is the other definition of Homosexuality: Homosexuality is the behaviour, the action, the habit of giving into the feelings of same-sex-attraction. If you don't do IT, then you aren't gay. The fact of the matter is that you do get to choose your actions and your reactions in life regardless of your feelings. Were it not the case, I wouldn't be almost a year from my last gay experience. It has not been easy. The feelings are still there, but it is my choice to let them rule me or not.

This means that I can say with a clear conscience that I am not gay. Oh yeah, I still have the feelings, but just I don't do it. Just like I sometimes have the feeling that I want to strangle my boss, but I'm not a murderer because I don't give in to those feelings. Just like I could have the feeling that I would want to just take all of the money in the cash register at a store, but I'm not a thief because I don't follow through with the feeling (I was drawing a blank as to things that I actually feel like doing). Just as any feeling doesn't make you <blank> if you don't follow through with the feeling and make it an action.

*looks up and blinks*

Uh...I guess that should be enough to start a conversation, and I seem to have talked myself out for now, so have at it.

[skalenfehl]

I can see why the Lord says we will be judged by our deeds and the desires of our hearts. It is not the thoughts that define us, but how we act upon them. Our actions define us. And your desires are righteous and shall be counted even greater to you for your efforts in making your weakness your strength. We all have weaknesses but like you said, that is not what define us unless we allow it. Thank you for sharing it.

[Kyra]

I completely agree with what you have said and I have to say, this seems to be a difficult trial that the Lord has given you, and you are dealing with in a very commendable way. You seem to by trying so hard, just keep going with it. As long as you keep working on strenghening your testimony the spirit will be there to guide you and help you through the more difficult times. Thank you for this post!

[Guest SisterofJared]

Oligith1, I hope you clearly understand that you are in the process of becoming a spiritual giant. If someone is not tempted to do wrong, they deserve no "credit" when they don't do wrong. They receive no gained strength from overcoming the temptation.

Feeling the urge, yet overcoming steadfastly, with an eye toward pleasing God, loving and nurturing your wife and children.... these are the things that will make you strong. I do believe the day will come when you will look back and rejoice in the strength and spirituality you have gain and will rejoice in it, and glory in the groweth it has brought you. The mansions on high must surely be a little bit bigger for those who have overcome much.

God bless you, and your dear wife!

Sister of Jared

[a-train]

You are 100% right about the origin of same gender attraction being completely inconsequential. It is just as the origin of liking cars, gambling, skiing, fishing, money, you name it. Perhaps someone's favorite color is red. Perhaps someone has strong urges to drink alcohol. Perhaps someone can't seem to stop thinking about science. The origin of likes and dislikes has no effect on morality, on social propriety, on our rights as human beings.

I can say that there are many activities that I would engage in if I were not LDS, activities that are tempting. I don't think anyone goes without temptations to break the commandments of the LORD. In fact, I know that no one goes without tempation, not even the Saviour lived on this earth without temptation.

Does the origin and nature of that temptation matter? Does it matter if I am tempted to break the word of wisdom rather than skip out on paying tithing? What if I am tempted to cheat on a test, is that worse than the temptation to shoplift? Can we really quantify temptation? Can we put a greater value on one temptation than another? Does the intensity of that temptation act as a multiplier or is its function more complex? Does any of that even matter?

The standard which the LORD has set does not change and is fixed regardless of the temptations we suffer.

I think the special consideration given to tempations of same gender attraction have come into being through bigotry and pride. The many years of contempt for those so tempted has built up the issue. Perhaps parents with good intentions have perpetuated the hatred for same gender attraction as a hopeful cure to its effects in their children, I have seen parents take up such an approach. The myths about it being so completely inhuman are what has so many looking for a "gay gene" or some other fundamental defect or characteristic.

We need to get over it. Tis human. It goes all the way through man's history to antiquity. And although the first murderer is documented and loathed in our scriptures, the first "gay men" were not considerable enough to demand mention. Perhaps that is because it, like so many other temptations, is so typical. It takes a real deviation from natural human nature to kill an innocent man for worldly gain. But to be attracted to others and to desire affection is almost universal.

We can rest assured that homosexuality will be alive and well in some form or another till the end of the end. From the looks of it, it will be more socially apparent and perhaps more commonly indulged in. But I can't say that is any different for a multitude of worldly pleasures of which we have been commanded to avoid.

My strongest advice to a married man tempted with same gender attraction is to be mindful of this lie:

"You can't be happy in this marriage because you are gay and thus incompatible with this woman."

Do not fall for that. It is the very SAME lie that is given to straight men who leave their wives for, or cheat on them with other women. The only difference is that they feel incompatible for other reasons, that's all. Men attracted to other men are not the only ones who find themselves more sexually attracted to people other than their wife. The allure is the unknown. The imagination portrays something exciting and different, whereas the wife of a lifetime seems the same. All of this is the Devil's trick, for all the while, your very wife is the object of another man's fantasy.

I find little difference between sexual temptations regardless of the object of that temptation. Don't give certain temptation's too much credit. That's how they get the best of us.

-a-train

[Kirajo]

You are freaking awesome.

[RainofGold]

Oligith,

Thank you for having the courage to share your experience with us.

Rainofgold

[jimuk]

Oligith1 i feel that you are a fine example of what it is to sacrifice ones self, and in doing so i can see that you are a great role model for others that may find themselves in such a situation.

It shows the great respect you do have for your heavenly fathers wishes, that you do indeed know what he would have you do.

You will be much blessed because of your sacrifices.

Stand strong brother, and do not bend in the wind of the storm that may be heading your way because of the true love you have for your family and for heavenly father.

Remember we are here for you.

I have great respect for you, i know you will go far in helping to build strong bridges in the church.

Hope my words dident sound patronizing, they were not meant to be.

[Moksha]

You see, I am attracted to men. I see an attractive man with just his shirt off, and I immediately feel my sexual urges jump to the fore. Conversely, I see a woman completely naked, and I feel a little grossed out before I turn away.

Hypothetically, how do you feel about penguins without their fig leaf?

[countrygirl66]

Thankyou so much for your heartfelt post. It rang so true with me when you talked about the attraction you have for who you wife is and her spirit. I grew up in such a immoral and substance abusive background, that I could have never found my h if I had only been searching for a physical attraction. For me because of my background physical attraction is so mixed up with bad things that I would never trust me eternal soul to it. When I married my h I was looking at things like his honesty, willingness to work, testimony, following the word of wisdom, and loyalty. I would do anything for him and have to work very hard to try to be worthy of him. It is not easy because I have so many bad things in my experience. I am forever grateful that I married someone who is a good person and loves the lord. I have had a very happy 23 years of marriage. My children are now becoming old enough that I can see that the tide has been changed for them. They are able to look for the good things in life without all the bad in the past. Bless you and your family.

[Starfish]

Oligith,

Why you have this affliction, why my grandchildren have autism, why my mother died when I was a child, are all questions I plan to ask when I meet God.

Thankyou for sharing. Your trial surpasses most, if not all.

[Oligith1]

Hypothetically, how do you feel about penguins without their fig leaf?

*giggles*

You know, I can't say that I've seen any penguins that have done anything for me regarless of the subspecies, not that I'm anti-penguin or anything, but you...err...they just aren't attractive to me...I guess. Should I apologize?

To the rest of you, I would like to thank you all for your support and words of encouragement. This is not a subject I usually talk about with my LDS friends, and to be able to share it with people who do share the same beliefs as me has been thereputic in a way instead of simply arguing with my non-LDS friends on the subject. I guess that is why I was anticipating a more negative reaction than I received.

[Bookmeister]

You know, with all the various threads revolving around this issue, and California's Proposition 8, and so forth, I was rather stumped about where to put this....so I made an executive decision and will have my say here. It is not my intention to cause harm or deny others the right to their opinion, particularly those of you who are not members of the LDS church.

The Lord cannot look upon sin with the least degree of tolerance.

Homosexuality is a sin. This is the position of the LDS church. People who engage in homosexual intimacy, like those who engage in sexual relationships with people they aren't married to, are wallowing in sin.

It seems to me that, while the civil government can make whatever laws it wants to regarding who can be "married", the Lord has spoken clearly and completely on this subject. We as members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints have a duty to support both our prophets and the head of this church, Jesus Christ, when we receive clear direction and instruction on a topic or issue.

To me, that means we provide the support 24/7.

I will not violate the civil law with regard to all the various "protected" groups (women, gays/lesbians, elderly, races, etc), but I am not required to approve of the sinful choices of others, nor do I have to support those who choose to live lives of sin.

If a person believes, for whatever reason, that they are gay, then the choice available to them is straightforward; avoid sin by remaining celibate, or accept the idea that they will be engaging in sin and must suffer the consequences of those acts.

What I've seen and read here makes it sound as if almost everyone is following the Gay party line for straight people. That is, "Oh, I don't care if they're gay, it doesn't bother me, and it's a personal decision". I agree, it is a personal decision, but make no mistake about the consequences.

Homosexuals will not be permitted in the various kingdoms of Heaven.

If you are a member of this church, then you know that homosexuality is an abomination and a sin before God. If you decide that you do not or cannot support this teaching, then you should remove yourself from the church. To remain in the church while supporting this sin is, in itself, a sin.

Believe me, I realize that this is not something that most people want to hear. I agree that we are to love the sinner but abhore the sin, and I make every effort to follow this teaching.

As a church member and a holder of the Priesthood, one of my responsibilities is to lovingly call attention to a sin and to help the sinner to repent and turn away from his or her sin. I hope I receive this sort of support from my fellow members in all the areas in which I commit sin, as well.

This is not a piece of hate mail, nor am I advocating that the constitutional rights quaranteed to all of us should not be applied based on who a person sleeps with.

But I am commanded by the Lord and the Prophets of the church in this dispensation to condemn sin in all it's aspects.

I will provide help to anyone who is willing to repent of this sin and turn away from it, but make no mistake about this.

Homosexuality is immoral and a sin against God.

[jimuk]

Hi Bookmeister, thank you for having the courage to speak out as you will.

I would just like to add, If you are a member of "Any" church and truly believe in god, then you know it is a sin to act on such urges.

Thats it lol, carry on.

[ADoyle90815]

I might be flamed for this, but I think that for some people, they're born with homosexual tendencies for some reason. Most people are obviously born to be heterosexual because the urge to reproduce is so strong. It's a reason why marriage has traditionally been between a man and a woman, in order to provide for children. Many people are able to overcome their homosexual urges and are able to marry someone of the opposite gender and have families. Most churches teach that homosexuality is a sin, so if someone really believes in what their churches teach, they will do what they can not to act on those urges. After all, several churches helped to pass Proposition 8.

Edited November 10, 2008 by ADoyle90815

[Moksha]

I might be flamed for this, but I think that for some people, they're born with homosexual tendencies for some reason.

This makes sense, since the pecentage of Homosexuals in any given population group has remained fairly constant throughout the ages, or so I have read.

[Kirajo]

I agree with you ADoyle! I (personally) believe that everyone is born with certain trials and/or issues they are more prone to than others. However, wickidness never was happiness, and although you may be "born with" a particular trial, I don't feel like that's a reason to give in. I like men, and I like them a lot. I was born that way. But I still chose to live the law of chastity from an early age.

[Guest SisterofJared]

Homosexuality IS a sin.... but I think we delude ourselves if we think it is a bigger sin than other forms of immorality. There tends to be an idea that heterosexual sin is bad, but that homosexual sin is worse. I don't believe that for a minute. We tend to be more repulsed by the very thought, but I don't believe God is sitting on high saying, "that sin of immorality between the man and the woman was, bad, but hey, this homosexuality is MUCH WORSE."

I also think the greatest sin is any sin that is so small that you think you don't have to repent for it. Thus a gossip session about your neighbor that goes unrepented is much greater sin that immorality that is sincerely repented.

All those who overcome sin are to be commended, and especially if the sin is one that is such a major struggle.

The Lord is pleased with them.

Sister of Jared

[Fiannan]

I do not believe that homsexuality is in and of itself something we are born with. There may be personality or genetic predispositions that can make one more likely to experiment with this lifestyle though. Perhaps novelty genes (the predisposition to seek out things that are different) would cause someone to try this out. Perhaps being highly sensitive could make one more vulnerable to disturbances in early childhood when we should bond or imprint on a desire to seek out the opposite sex.

As for the idea that the rate of homosexuality has remained constant that is highly doubtful. Perhaps this is based on the flawed Kinsey studies (the myth of 10% still creeps out into popular culture). If the culture is more positive to homosexual expression then obviously you will have more people adopt it. Now I know that there are those who claim that the only people truly fluid in their sexual choices are bi-sexuals, and that they are the only ones who could go one way or another, but that is merely explaining something after it has occured (Joe left homosexuality when he became a Christian so he probably wasn't really gay in the first place). In today's society I think it is quite apparent that people engage in more same-sex situations than in the past because the social stigma has been removed (heck on MTV there is a show where a woman has a group of men and a group of women and she eventually gets down to the one she wants to try a relationship with). Now if we accept Spencer W. Kimball's statement that we marry the people we date it is only logical that if people experiment with the same sex many will indeed pair up with them just like if they were dating a member of the opposite sex.

[Oligith1]

You know, with all the various threads revolving around this issue, and California's Proposition 8, and so forth, I was rather stumped about where to put this....so I made an executive decision and will have my say here. It is not my intention to cause harm or deny others the right to their opinion, particularly those of you who are not members of the LDS church.

The Lord cannot look upon sin with the least degree of tolerance.

Homosexuality is a sin. This is the position of the LDS church. People who engage in homosexual intimacy, like those who engage in sexual relationships with people they aren't married to, are wallowing in sin.

It seems to me that, while the civil government can make whatever laws it wants to regarding who can be "married", the Lord has spoken clearly and completely on this subject. We as members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints have a duty to support both our prophets and the head of this church, Jesus Christ, when we receive clear direction and instruction on a topic or issue.

To me, that means we provide the support 24/7.

I will not violate the civil law with regard to all the various "protected" groups (women, gays/lesbians, elderly, races, etc), but I am not required to approve of the sinful choices of others, nor do I have to support those who choose to live lives of sin.

If a person believes, for whatever reason, that they are gay, then the choice available to them is straightforward; avoid sin by remaining celibate, or accept the idea that they will be engaging in sin and must suffer the consequences of those acts.

What I've seen and read here makes it sound as if almost everyone is following the Gay party line for straight people. That is, "Oh, I don't care if they're gay, it doesn't bother me, and it's a personal decision". I agree, it is a personal decision, but make no mistake about the consequences.

Homosexuals will not be permitted in the various kingdoms of Heaven.

If you are a member of this church, then you know that homosexuality is an abomination and a sin before God. If you decide that you do not or cannot support this teaching, then you should remove yourself from the church. To remain in the church while supporting this sin is, in itself, a sin.

Believe me, I realize that this is not something that most people want to hear. I agree that we are to love the sinner but abhore the sin, and I make every effort to follow this teaching.

As a church member and a holder of the Priesthood, one of my responsibilities is to lovingly call attention to a sin and to help the sinner to repent and turn away from his or her sin. I hope I receive this sort of support from my fellow members in all the areas in which I commit sin, as well.

This is not a piece of hate mail, nor am I advocating that the constitutional rights quaranteed to all of us should not be applied based on who a person sleeps with.

But I am commanded by the Lord and the Prophets of the church in this dispensation to condemn sin in all it's aspects.

I will provide help to anyone who is willing to repent of this sin and turn away from it, but make no mistake about this.

Homosexuality is immoral and a sin against God.

I was hoping someone would speak up with this view. Hey! No groaning, rolling your eyes, or any of that. Just pause for a moment and listen...please.

I agree with you 100% that acting on homosexual feelings is sin. I even agree with you 100% that entertaining homosexual thoughts is sin. I have to say though that having homosexual feelings (defined as having an attraction towards others of your own gender) is most certainly not a sin. WAIT! Stop thinking that response you are already thinking about and pause for a moment and listen.

Is it a sin to be tempted?

Did Eve commit sin before she ate the fruit, before she decided to eat the fruit, during the time when Satan was making his sales pitch? Heck, she didn't even know who Satan was, did she?

I say that having same-sex attraction is a temptation. I can choose to act on it or not. I can choose to entertain the thoughts or not. Unfortunately, I can't choose to not be tempted. I wish I could.

It could be that you agree with me in all of this and that I simply misunderstood, but then there is another aspect to what you wrote that I would like to address.

You declare boldly that "Homosexuality is a sin." I agree with you....50% on that one. Once again I must say that definitions of words really matter. If you define Homosexuality as the behavior of entertaining same-sex sexual fantasies in your thoughts and/or the behavior of engaging in sex with other members of your gender then I agree with you 100%. Acting on temptations is the definition of sin. On the other hand, if you define Homosexuality as having the feelings, the attraction to, the temptation to do all of those things I just described, I would have to disagree with you 100%. Sin is not sin if you don't do it. Also we are not sinful just because we are tempted...otherwise Jesus wouldn't be perfect.

What I pointed out in my original post is that there are differing views on the definition of Homosexuality. The reason I pointed it out is to attempt to give people a better understanding of what we are fighting here. You won't have a chance of persuading someone of your opinion if you don't first understand theirs. Remember the commitment pattern? Build on Common Beliefs. But first you have to find out what those beliefs are.

So when it comes down to it, I can say honestly that I am a Homosexual. It is not a sin. And I do have a hope of gaining the Celestial Kingdom even with that title.

Of course, in that paragraph I am using the definition of Homosexuality which defines it as a temptation only, but I do hope you understand what I mean. Do I plan on ever going back to the behavior? Certainly not. Hence...

So when it comes down to it, I can say honestly that I am not a Homosexual. It is a sin. Any who engage in that sin and do not repent have no hope of gaining the Celestial Kingdom with that title.

Now you might say that I'm creating a problem by creating a dual definition of the term Homosexuality, and were I the one to have created this dual meaning I would agree with you completely. The fact of the matter is that I didn't create it. I'm just shining light on what others have created. Just ask any Gay Activist to define Homosexuality, and you'll find that they will either refuse to define it (annoying, but true -- can't cure something that you can't understand after all) or they will give you the definition that I have pointed out.

Ok. I'm rambling again. Hope it helped.

[Kyra]

Jeffrey R. Holland, Liahona magazine, Oct. 2007

A pleasant young man in his early 20s sat across from me. He had an engaging smile, although he didn’t smile often during our talk. What drew me in was the pain in his eyes.

“I don’t know if I should remain a member of the Church,” he said. “I don’t think I’m worthy.”

“Why wouldn’t you be worthy?” I asked.

“I’m gay.”

I suppose he thought I would be startled. I wasn’t. “And … ?” I inquired.

A flicker of relief crossed his face as he sensed my continued interest. “I’m not attracted to women. I’m attracted to men. I’ve tried to ignore these feelings or change them, but …”

He sighed. “Why am I this way? The feelings are very real.”

I paused, then said, “I need a little more information before advising you. You see, same-gender attraction is not a sin, but acting on those feelings is—just as it would be with heterosexual feelings. Do you violate the law of chastity?”

He shook his head. “No, I don’t.”

This time I was relieved. “Thank you for wanting to deal with this,” I said. “It takes courage to talk about it, and I honor you for keeping yourself clean.

“As for why you feel as you do, I can’t answer that question. A number of factors may be involved, and they can be as different as people are different. Some things, including the cause of your feelings, we may never know in this life. But knowing why you feel as you do isn’t as important as knowing you have not transgressed. If your life is in harmony with the commandments, then you are worthy to serve in the Church, enjoy full fellowship with the members, attend the temple, and receive all the blessings of the Savior’s Atonement.”

He sat up a little straighter. I continued, “You serve yourself poorly when you identify yourself primarily by your sexual feelings. That isn’t your only characteristic, so don’t give it disproportionate attention. You are first and foremost a son of God, and He loves you.

“What’s more, I love you. My Brethren among the General Authorities love you. I’m reminded of a comment President Boyd K. Packer made in speaking to those with same-gender attraction. ‘We do not reject you,’ he said. ‘… We cannot reject you, for you are the sons and daughters of God. We will not reject you, because we love you.’ ”1

We talked for another 30 minutes or so. Knowing I could not be a personal counselor to him, I directed him to his local priesthood leaders. Then we parted. I thought I detected a look of hope in his eyes that had not been there before. Although he yet faced challenges to work through—or simply endure—I had a feeling he would handle them well.

From the same article:

As fellow Church members, families, and friends, we need to recognize that those attracted to the same gender face some unique restrictions regarding expression of their feelings. While same-gender attraction is real, there must be no physical expression of this attraction. The desire for physical gratification does not authorize immorality by anyone. Such feelings can be powerful, but they are never so strong as to deprive anyone of the freedom to choose worthy conduct.

For the full article: LDS.org - Liahona Article - Helping Those Who Struggle with Same-Gender Attraction

It's due to this article that I changed how I feel about homosexuality. I do not believe it is a sin unless you indulge in those fantasies or act on them. :)

[PeterVenkman]

Kyra,

The article you posted also says:

"Your [gay] children are welcome to stay in your home, of course, but you have every right to exclude from your dwelling any behavior that offends the Spirit of the Lord."

If the foundation of our religion is family, then it astounds me that Elder Holland would say something like this. How on earth could an LDS leader condone disowning your children? That notion disrespects the importance of family way more than homosexuality does, in my opinion.

[Misshalfway]

Kyra,

The article you posted also says:

"Your [gay] children are welcome to stay in your home, of course, but you have every right to exclude from your dwelling any behavior that offends the Spirit of the Lord."

If the foundation of our religion is family, then it astounds me that Elder Holland would say something like this. How on earth could an LDS leader condone disowning your children? That notion disrespects the importance of family way more than homosexuality does, in my opinion.

Do you really think Elder Holland meant disowning ones children?

I guess I don't read this quote that way. I think he is referring to exclude unwanted behaviors or restrict certain activities in the walls of their own home. I don't think I have heard any of the brethren ever suggest that parent disown children no matter what sinful course they have taken.

[Misshalfway]

Hypothetically, how do you feel about penguins without their fig leaf?

Moksha, No one is quite is as cool as you!

[jimuk]

Just a thought. What about unclean thoughts, if a guy or girl has these thoughts before refusing oneself to act on them, is this not still a sin, and in having these thoughts towards someone of the same sex, is this the same as fulfilling ones desires.

I think this gets very complicated if one delves to deep.

thanks