American Family Asociation's Christmas "Ornament"

[Elphaba]

I thought this was a really bad joke when I first saw it. It's not.

Not funny.

Elphaba

[Wingnut]

I'm not sure I get it.

[Guest DeborahC]

Me either.. it's a lighted cross for people to put in their yards, right?

So...???

[Lbybug]

i agree with them .... i don't get it.

[MarginOfError]

The lawn ornament, a cross wrapped in white christmas tree lights, bears frightening similarity to a burning cross. A burning cross was used most notably by the Ku Klux Klan as a way to intimidate non-Caucasians.

I have my doubts that the similarity was intentional, or that it was meant to send a message to a minority community. But it is an unfortunate occurrence. Apparently the AFA needs a better marketing team (not to mention better leaders, better agendas, and better thought).

[Lbybug]

ahhhh gotcha

[OtterPop]

I have to say, when I clicked and saw the picture, I thought it was intended to look like a burning cross. I don't think that is the intent, but the design is poor, with the bulbs sticking out of the sides. They could have outlined the cross in white lights, or covered it with white lights in rows and not had them sticking out. Unfortunate.

Though I'm not old enough to remember the civil rights movement as she does, I think Elphaba and I have some touchstones that others here don't have. I lived in Alabama from 1965 to 1970 and from 1977 to 1982. I remember hearing about riots at the junior high school when I was in elementary school. I remember seeing the grand imperial wizard of the Ku Klux Klan on the news when I was in high school. The image of a burning cross strikes me with gut-level disgust, fear, and shame for what humans are capable of doing to each other -- similar to the feelings I have when confronted with a swastika.

I really think our reactions here are based on our different backgrounds.

[Elgama]

I got the burning cross reference but I don't know who the American Family Association are - I do know several Church of England Ministers and other Christian Ministers have been outed as members of the BNP (British National Party).

-Charley

[Guest DeborahC]

I think to attach negative sentiment like this to a symbol that is meaningful to another group could be a mistake.

I mean, people are always making disparaging remarks about the symbolism of the moon on the LDS Temples.

How do you draw a line ?

Even the Nazi swastika was stolen from another culture.

If I'd seen it on a lawn, I wouldn't have thought anything about it, and I grew up during the civil rights movement days. ::shrug::

[Wingnut]

I mean, people are always making disparaging remarks about the symbolism of the moon on the LDS Temples.

They are?

[MarginOfError]

Like I said, I don't think this was deliberate, and I sense no maliciousness from the AFA in doing this. When you know these are produced by the AFA, it's pretty easy to understand what the intended message is. But if you had no idea who made these, or for what reason, it becomes ambiguous, and sort of obscures your intended message. This is one case in which perception is probably more important than message.

[ADoyle90815]

It does look a bit like a burning cross, but I don't think it was deliberate, just bad design on their part. I have no problems with crosses in general, but I think a Nativity scene would be better for Christmas.

[Guest DeborahC]

They are?

Yes, they are.

I hear them all the time from my non-LDS friends, especially the fundamentalist Christian ones.

[MarginOfError]

I mean, people are always making disparaging remarks about the symbolism of the moon on the LDS Temples.

Interesting. I've never heard that one before. PM me and tell me what they say.

In other interesting things about mormons, I found out this weekend that Christ was crucified in Utah. Why don't they tell us this stuff in Sunday School?

[DigitalShadow]

It took me a few seconds of staring at the picture wondering why you had a problem with it before it finally hit me as to why it was such a bad idea. I doubt it was intentional, but I do think it would be a responsible action for AFA to quietly stop selling them, especially considering the temporarly increased racial tension that has come about as a result of the election.

[Wingnut]

Yes, they are.

I hear them all the time from my non-LDS friends, especially the fundamentalist Christian ones.

I think it's interesting that you say that people are asking "all the time" about it, because (1) I've never heard anyone ask about it; and (2) other than Salt Lake (and maybe Nauvoo, though I'm not sure), I didn't even know that LDS temples had moons on them.

Regardless, questions asked about a moonstone on a temple are hardly comparable to the hatred that a burning cross evokes.

[Elgama]

I just have problem with them not spotting it but guess from the posts here its not that obvious to everyone - it could just be a bad photo

-Charley

[Elgama]

I think it's interesting that you say that people are asking "all the time" about it, because (1) I've never heard anyone ask about it; and (2) other than Salt Lake (and maybe Nauvoo, though I'm not sure), I didn't even know that LDS temples had moons on them.

Regardless, questions asked about a moonstone on a temple are hardly comparable to the hatred that a burning cross evokes.

Preston England Temple has the star, moon and sun on it. Don't remember them on the London Temple. Some of the symbols used on the Temples are viewed as Pagan so for many fundamentlist Christians even more evil than a burning cross':)

-Charley

Edited November 19, 2008 by Elgama

[Elphaba]

I keep writing, and re-writing a post to the responses in my thread, and it's just not coming together yet.

But I will say this: There is absolutely no way the employees of the American Family Association did not know the image its product could convey.

The AFA is located in Tupelo, Mississippi. The same Mississippi where fourteen-year-old Emmett Till was murdered after the monsters had beaten him and gouged his eyes out.

The same Neshoba County, Mississippi where three young men working for civil rights were murdered by the Klan in 1964. The movie "Mississippi Burning" is based on this incident.

The same Mississippi where racism is still insidious. The same Mississippi where the Ku Klux Klan is still going strong.

The same Mississippi where the AFA is located, where at least some of its employees must know what the KKK burning crosses look like, and that their product looks almost exactly the same, only smaller.

Was it malicious to include the cross in their product line? No, I don't think it was.

Was it callous to include the cross in their product line? I think so.

Was it immoral to include the cross, considering they're in Mississippi where they had to have known the image the cross could convey? In this atheist's opinion, absolutely.

Perhaps it's benign on a person's porch, as shown in the photo. I don't know.

But I guarantee the cross will also be planted next to the Confederate flag whose owner thinks it makes a statement, or because it's funny, or both.

And I do not believe this possibility never occurred to anyone in the company.

Not if they're from Mississippi.

Elphaba

Edited November 20, 2008 by Elphaba
Because I am stupid.

[Moksha]

I got the burning cross reference but I don't know who the American Family Association are - ...

-Charley

I did find this on their website. They were one of the groups strongly supporting Proposition 8.

New Film Reveals Evidence Against Mormons' Historical Account

• ...AFA Headline - Wednesday, December 03, 2003

  A Utah-based Christian ministry is trying to make the public aware of new DNA research that could spell disaster for the Mormon Church.

  American Family Association - AgapePress news

  Last Updated: 12/3/2003 2:05:57 PM

. Edited November 20, 2008 by Moksha
To deactivate anti-mormon links in AFA material

[Guest SisterofJared]

The cross has been a symbol of Christianity long before the Klu Klux Klan existed.

I see no reason for any Christian group to give it up. Rather than let it stand for the KKK, they should use it so much that the image is planted in everyone's mind as a Christian symbol.

When I visited San Francisco, I brought home t shirts for everyone. They had the golden gate bridge on them and said, "San Francisco." One of my daughters refused to wear hers because it was purple. She would wear a black or blue or green or any other color of t shirt that said San Francisco, but not one that was purple, because that was the color the homosexuals have claimed. My question is why have we given it to them?

As good friend has the middle name of Gaye. She is 58 years old, and today is careful not to reveal her middle name. What once stood for happy and delighted has been surrendered to mean homosexual or lesbian. Why??

When something stands for something good, we should not surrender the meaning away to something else. Many black churches use the symbol of the cross and IMO, they should continue to do so, and help restore the former significance, and discredit any other claim to it.

Sister of Jared

[Elphaba]

I just have problem with them not spotting it but guess from the posts here its not that obvious to everyone - it could just be a bad photo

I think you're talking about the cross, and not the symbols on the temple, but I'm not sure.

If you're talking about the cross, I agree. I admit I'm a bit stunned that so few people recognize the abhorrent image this electric cross can potentially convey.

I'm not saying everyone will see it, or that they should. I'm sure people will buy the cross only to demonstrate their strong faith.

The person who sent me the link received it from an internet list she is on, so I am not the only person who finds this obscene, especially, as DS pointed out, race is a very sensitive issue at the moment.

In fact, I could see one of those who shouted "Kill Obama" the loudest, proudly displaying this cross in his yard. After all, it looks like a KKK cross, but you don't have to keep lighting it on fire.

Elphaba

[pam]

The lawn ornament, a cross wrapped in white christmas tree lights, bears frightening similarity to a burning cross. A burning cross was used most notably by the Ku Klux Klan as a way to intimidate non-Caucasians.

I have my doubts that the similarity was intentional, or that it was meant to send a message to a minority community. But it is an unfortunate occurrence. Apparently the AFA needs a better marketing team (not to mention better leaders, better agendas, and better thought).

That was my first thought when I clicked on the link. My first thought was on the burning crosses the KKK used to instill fear.

Edited November 20, 2008 by pam

[Elphaba]

The cross has been a symbol of Christianity long before the Ku Klux Klan existed.

I see no reason for any Christian group to give it up. Rather than let it stand for the KKK, they should use it so much that the image is planted in everyone's mind as a Christian symbol.

I never said any Christian group should give up the cross. I never said anyone should give up the cross.

When I visited San Francisco, I brought home t shirts for everyone. They had the golden gate bridge on them and said, "San Francisco." >snip< My question is why have we given it to them?

Oh please. Can we stop beating up on the gays?

As good friend has the middle name of Gaye. She is 58 years old, and today is careful not to reveal her middle name. What once stood for happy and delighted has been surrendered to mean homosexual or lesbian. Why??

What does this even mean?

The KKK burning the cross in front of a black family's house while it rapes and murders them is the equivalent to your friend’s inability to reveal her middle name? Is she going to be tortured or lynched for it? Does she spend her life in terror that someone is going to kill her because of her name?

When something stands for something good, we should not surrender the meaning away to something else. Many black churches use the symbol of the cross and IMO, they should continue to do so, and help restore the former significance, and discredit any other claim to it.

…sigh…

I never said any church whatsoever should give up the cross, and it's a bit obtuse to assume I did.

I am referring to this lighted cross only. I am saying the AFA should not sell it because it is an image that could, for many people, represent unspeakable acts, not faith. Obviously that's what I saw, and I am not alone.

Additionally, it is not an image anyone gave up to them, them” being the KKK and other white supremacist groups.

To compare a burning cross to a regular cross is to be ignorant of its history. It is an image of vile hatred and atrocities, not Christianity.

It is the atrocities that insist the image of a burning cross is obscene.

Elphaba

[Guest SisterofJared]

I never said any Christian group should give up the cross. I never said anyone should give up the cross.

Oh please. Can we stop beating up on the gays?

What does this even mean?

The KKK burning the cross in front of a black family's house while it rapes and murders them is the equivalent to your friend’s inability to reveal her middle name? Is she going to be tortured or lynched for it? Does she spend her life in terror that someone is going to kill her because of her name?

…sigh…

I never said any church whatsoever should give up the cross, and it's a bit obtuse to assume I did.

I am referring to this lighted cross only. I am saying the AFA should not sell it because it is an image that could, for many people, represent unspeakable acts, not faith. Obviously that's what I saw, and I am not alone.

Additionally, it is not an image anyone gave up to them, them” being the KKK and other white supremacist groups.

To compare a burning cross to a regular cross is to be ignorant of its history. It is an image of vile hatred and atrocities, not Christianity.

It is the atrocities that insist the image of a burning cross is obscene.

Elphaba

I confess when I looked at it, I saw only a Cross, such as you would see on a rooftop or on a church at Christmas. I didn't think of the Klu Klux Klan at all. I noticed other people saw the same thing. Some of them anyway. When I did read the posts about it being like a Klu Klux Klan cross I was somewhat surprised. Having lived most of my life in the SW and the NW, racism is not much a part of the picture in my life. I do believe racism exists, but that it is quickly fading and non-existent for many people today.

I don't see a burning cross.... just a lit cross.

Of course, my friend isn't going to be tortured to reveal her middle name. My only comparison there is that we shouldn't change the meaning of things to please a group who want to change it. The color purple or the word gay shouldn't be changed to mean homosexual, nor should a cross mean KKK. I'm not sure why the KKK started using the cross when terrorizing people. It's a bad fit.

I understand where you are coming from since the picture reminds you of a burning cross. I sincerely doubt if that was the intention, and certainly the AFA might want to revisit the idea of marketing it. It makes me curious to know how many black people have purchased it, and how many have the same response that you did.

Sister of Jared