Anybody else feel this way about Christmas?

[skylercollins]

That last couple of years, as my son has gotten old enough to start asking for things for Christmas, I've only been able to think about how much I'm starting to dislike the current practice of celebrating Christmas. My wife and I have talked about having my son fill out a Christmas list, but not for things he wants. Rather, we would help him right down names of his friends and family and list what he wants to give to each of them for Christmas.

We've already decided (he's 3 now) that we weren't going to get him to believe in Santa. We want to get his focus on others and not himself, as this season seems to do for everyone. I just think that the most important holiday of the year, the celebration of the birth of Christ, has become too "mammon-ized". (Obviously he's aware of Santa and knows he's related to Christmas, but we'll help him understand who he is from an historical perspective.)

I actually felt strongly about boycotting the entire holiday when I read about that poor Wal-mart employee that was killed because of what Christmas has become. It's absolutely disgusting to me what people do these days because of Christmas. It makes me angry, you know? We're teaching my son (kids) that Christmas is about others, and Birthdays are about him. I think that will be a nice contrast and as long as we're consistent, everything will be alright.

[Hemidakota]

We celebrate the Savior and not the materials things of the world. I do understand your frustration for I have the same attitude but with my partner, I just go with the flow.

"BAAAAAAA HUMMMMBUG!!!!"

[applepansy]

I'm a Bahumbug from way back. I understand your feelings. We've always tried to teach our children to give. Whether that was helping a needy family, the food bank, or a neighbor (depending on what we could afford). We still let the kids believe in Santa but he wasn't the center of Christmas in our home. Christ is and will always be the center.

Now my kids are grown. Things are tight financially for all of us this year. I suggested no gifts and just dinner and games. The kids all agreed without hesitation. My side of the family has done this for years. The kids have watched how different the holiday is and feels when with my side of the family versus my in-laws side. My in-laws will not let go of "gifts." But we do not participate except to get something for my husband's parents.

The feelings of the season is so different when you focus on Christ.

applepansy

P.S. Remember your young children will be comparing Christmas with their friends eventually. I do not recommend trynig to keep up with the neighbors but I also feel strongly that children need at least one gift from Santa to brag about.

P.S.S. If I had my deepest wish I would be sleeping through the season.

[MarginOfError]

You'll have to forgive me for not citing a reference right away, but the book I am basing my statement on is at home.

According the the American Academy of Pediatrics, children are naturally quite selfish up until age four or five. Thinking outside of their own experience requires a level of abstract thinking that children don't develop until a little later. So if your 3 year old seems a little selfish, it may be more developmental than parental. When you're making the list of what to give family and friends with your son, don't be surprised if he wants to give everyone the things that he wants to receive. (Caring for Your Baby and Young Child: Birth to Age 5)

But I like your approach. As his mind develops, he should adapt to selfless thought quite easily.

[BenRaines]

MOE, that is interesting that you say that regarding selfishness. My 2 yr old granddaughter was visiting us over the Thanksgiving holiday and almost everything she said was regarding ownership of things. That is my dog, that is your dog, that is you book, that is my toy. It was not that she was selfish but it was all about recognizing who owned what. Very interesting to watch.

As far as Christmas we recognize that it is important to teach our children the real reason for the season. One thing we did each year was get the kids to give away things that were in very good condition to avoid building up more and more things. You would not receive unless you gave.

We love the whole season but moderation in the commercialism.

Ben Raines

[Misshalfway]

I know of a family that doesn't buy Christmas presents for their kids. Instead all the children (teens and older now) work to gather donated goods and then they all travel to Mexico to give the goods to deserving/needy Mexican families. A couple of years ago they were asking for soccer balls so the kids wouldn't have to make their own out of trash. I don't spose we all have to do Christmas this way, but I think there are so many creative ways to teach and lead with examples of how to give back and get out of ourselves during the holiday. I would much rather see someone find a way to make the season meaningful than see the bah humbug cabosh on everything.

[Captain_Curmudgeon]

The first thing I learned about Christmas from my Grandmother Despain was that it was a hoax contrived by the Catholic Church to lure pagans. Jesus was born in April.

When I read the OT it became clear that it wasn't in December. All I had to do was look at sheepherders. Did they guard their flocks at night in December? Of course not. Spring and Summer.

When I got into Roman history, there was another clue: they collected taxes and did censuses in March and April. When do you you pay taxes right now?

Easter is legitimate (although the way the West computes it is bogus); Christmas is phonus balonus.

As I've said elsewhere, I'd like to move the celebration of Jesus's birth to where it belongs and let what is now falsely called Christmas merge with the other wonderful celebrations of the Winter Solstice.

[MarginOfError]

Wow...can we all say "Grinch!"

Long time no see Curmudgeon...good to have you back.

[rameumptom]

Hey, I have an idea! How about we make Christmas a holiday about Jesus!

The world seeks its own, and will corrupt all things in its worship of materialism/Mammon.

In our house, we have a few gifts, but most of the presents are reserved for birthdays. That way, we can focus on Christ and love of family.

[Captain_Curmudgeon]

Hey, I have an idea! How about we make Christmas a holiday about Jesus!

The world seeks its own, and will corrupt all things in its worship of materialism/Mammon.

In our house, we have a few gifts, but most of the presents are reserved for birthdays. That way, we can focus on Christ and love of family.

I agree with you completely. rameumptom. And since as LDS we know better, why not move it from December, where commercialism has already taken its toll, to April, where it belongs?

Why should we blindly follow the Catholics and the World when we know better?

[Captain_Curmudgeon]

Wow...can we all say "Grinch!"

I hope you're not calling my grandmother, a granddaughter of Parley P. Pratt, a Grinch.

[Guest Alana]

I'm all about Santa Claus.

Christmas in our house is pretty typical. Tree, presents, stocking full of goodies Christmas morning. When it's all said and done though, I don't spend that much on Christmas. I'm big on garage sales and flea markets. If I spend a lot on a present, it's because it's something I know the person really wants, or is going to buy anyways. I find that we have a lot of fun with Christmas, we decorate a lot (and early) we make it a huge celebration. We have presents, it's an EVENT. At the same time, do we focus on Christ? Of course. Really though, we do that every day. Not a day goes by that there aren't scriptures and prayer and hymns sung in this house. I'm trying really hard to help my children get to know their Savior, to know they can always turn to him. Christmas is a fun thing for us. The focus isn't the presents, even though there are presents, but on the season, and the feeling and family. Oh, also would like to say, we celebrate all holidays, from St. Patrick's day (leprechaun traps and corned beef!) to May day (does it get better than leaving flowers on peoples doors?)

As far as what we do with presents, I probably spend around $150. Not bad considering I'm usually really cheap and never buy my kids anything lol. This includes our family of four, my siblings and parents, my husbands siblings and parents, my day care kids families and one 'big' present in the present draw from all the extended family. Oh here is a thought. One thing I DON'T like about Christmas is the expectation people can have. Judging if someone spent enough on a present, worry about people spending too much, be disappointed if what you got isn't what you asked for. I get presents based on what looks good at the moment, it's ok if I spend more money on one person than the next. Most of the presents are just home made things anyways.

Edited December 3, 2008 by Alana

[skylercollins]

Nice thoughts everyone. I think I'm with Captain_Curmudgeon, though. LOL

[Fiannan]

Making Christmas into an orgy of consumerism (when it's supposed to be about celebrating Jesus) makes as much sense as serving a big ham for Christmas dinner since Jesus never in his life on earth partook of pork.

[Misshalfway]

I agree with you completely. rameumptom. And since as LDS we know better, why not move it from December, where commercialism has already taken its toll, to April, where it belongs?

Why should we blindly follow the Catholics and the World when we know better?

Cause at this point it doesn't matter. I don't think Christ cares if we celebrate in December or April. The celebration is for us anyway. Another way for us to remember that Christ is first and center of everything and celebrating his birth is part of that. But there is nothing in LDS theology that says that we must celebrate like the rest of the world. The church kinda lets us do our thing and I don't think there is anything wrong with celebrating with our fellow Christians. In fact, I think it opens doors of mutual efforts for community service and other places where bridges can and are built. Being in the world but not of the world doesn't mean that we can't celebrate along side traditions. And it seems that if we can keep our bearings with regards to the commercialism and seduction of the world and its value of things and price tags, then it seems to me that the Christmas tradition is just fine the way it is.

Heck! If it doesn't work for you, then celebrate in April. Wouldn't bother me. Just don't be throwing snowballs at me if I carol at your door. Ok?

[ADoyle90815]

One other thing is that Christmas really means the Mass of Christ, and was originally a day when everyone went to church for a special celebration of Christ's birth. If you really wanted to celebrate the true meaning of the day, then it would be a good idea not to put up a tree as that was originally a pagan tradition. I think it's likely that Christ was born in the spring, but since a different calendar was used back then, it's hard to determine the exact month He was born.

[KristofferUmfrey]

I grown to not be fond of pagan holidays no matter how "Christian" people try to make them.

Edited December 4, 2008 by pam

[Elgama]

I grew up knowing Santa is not real, and will do the same for my kids, I know how frustrating it is buying for my neices and nephew that get over bought for at Christmas you know any gift you give will go unnoticed, amongst the huge pile - I have just spent £50 on gifts I know will not be greatfully received or loved. Personally I don't think you need to change Christmas day to have a more simple Christlike time, you opt to do it yourself in your own home, my Mum did we had Steak for our Christmas Meal so there was no huge excess at the meal but everyone enjoyed it, Christmas Decorations did not go up early etc

I like the pagan bits of the holiday lol - I start with advent. we have a small tea party and put out our advent calender (boxes with a religious activity, chocolate and a nativity piece in, and the name of a Christmas story (we read one every night) my children are growing up knowing Santa is a story, a fictional character, we actually do the commercial bit of Christmas on Christmas Eve (when we decorate the tree), we attend midnight mass, open presents and eat. Ellie puts her mince pie, carrot and milk out on 23rd and the tree and presents get delivered (our tree is ivory with silver lanterns and its magic which is why we get everything early lol). For Christmas day we celebrate Jesus's birtday, I have a star that goes on top of the tree just for that day, we have a happy birthday Jesus Cake and each family member either makes a paper boat or a scroll (depending on weather), in it is written our 3 presents for Jesus for the year. If weather is good we go for a hike and let our boats go, if weather is bad we have picnic in living room and let the scrolls go on balloons in the garden.

Our children get 3 presents for Christmas off Mum and Dad, something they really want, this year my daughter is getting High School Musical bits and my son a Car Mat and Cars, they are then getting a book and a sweets. However we are spending more this year as got a good deal on a trumpet for my daughter (she is learning to play), so have bought my son a keyboard. But gave them as advent presents rather than on Christmas itself so we don't set a precedent.

What I love is every present they have gets appreciated and played with. I would love to do what my Mum did and just collect money off everyone and used it to buy one big present for my brother and I, then anyone that wanted just did things like dressing gown and slippers or sweets etc.

Oh and I do not allow huge excess with the food either we eat something everyone enjoys and just make it a bit nicer with more expensive juice. and maybe cheese and biscuits

Maybe I am a Grinch lol but I like my Christmas its no work for anyone, and no stress financially

-Charley

[mightynancy]

We focus on Christ all year long. My kids understand that Christmas is a celebration of Christ's birth...but I don't confuse a festival (Christmas) with a holy day (say, Easter). All year, perhaps with more focus during the holidays, we learn of Christ and try to be like Him. I do let Christmas day itself be about the fun of giving and getting, though. When it falls on the Sabbath, of course we behave accordingly.

We embrace Santa Claus! When my older child let on that he knew, we shared some stories of Christmas miracles involving Santa Claus and his spirit. Now, my son is in the club, so to speak, and gets to get back up after "bedtime" and be helpful, sipping cocoa or eggnog with mom & dad. It's all good. He gets to "be" Santa a little now, which is fun.

[KristofferUmfrey]

We focus on Christ all year long. My kids understand that Christmas is a celebration of Christ's birth...but I don't confuse a festival (Christmas) with a holy day (say, Easter). All year, perhaps with more focus during the holidays, we learn of Christ and try to be like Him. I do let Christmas day itself be about the fun of giving and getting, though. When it falls on the Sabbath, of course we behave accordingly.

We embrace Santa Claus! When my older child let on that he knew, we shared some stories of Christmas miracles involving Santa Claus and his spirit. Now, my son is in the club, so to speak, and gets to get back up after "bedtime" and be helpful, sipping cocoa or eggnog with mom & dad. It's all good. He gets to "be" Santa a little now, which is fun.

Not to be mean but Easter is a pagan festival dressed up in Christianity also.

Edited December 4, 2008 by pam
Link must be in signature not in body of message.

[mightynancy]

Okay, how about we call it "That Special Sabbath When We Especially Remember The Resurrection of Jesus Christ and the Atonement that Makes Our Salvation Possible"?

And quick, somebody better get the MoTabs on the phone. Those pagans!

[Elgama]

Not to be mean but Easter is a pagan festival dressed up in Christianity also.

:) yeah but on this one the Roman Catholics were more inventive and a lot of the symbolism actually works like rolling hard boiled eggs to symbolise the rolling away of the stone from the tomb, the Simmnel cake has the 12 apostles and Christ on it etc even the marzipan has a symbol forgotten what it is though. Lambs and Chicks are a symbol of rebirth and new life

-Charley

[KristofferUmfrey]

Okay, how about we call it "That Special Sabbath When We Especially Remember The Resurrection of Jesus Christ and the Atonement that Makes Our Salvation Possible"?

And quick, somebody better get the MoTabs on the phone. Those pagans!

How about we celebrate Passover like Yah tells us to?

[KristofferUmfrey]

:) yeah but on this one the Roman Catholics were more inventive and a lot of the symbolism actually works like rolling hard boiled eggs to symbolise the rolling away of the stone from the tomb, the Simmnel cake has the 12 apostles and Christ on it etc even the marzipan has a symbol forgotten what it is though. Lambs and Chicks are a symbol of rebirth and new life

-Charley

The Plain Truth About EASTER

"Dyed Eggs

But did you know that dyed Easter eggs also figured in the ancient Babylonian mystery rites, just as they do in Easter observance today? Yes, these are pagan, too. It is recorded in Edward Davies' "The Mythology and Rites of the British Druids," page 210, that the ancient Druids bore an egg as the sacred emblem of their idolatrous order. Eggs were sacred to many ancient civilizations and formed an integral part of the religious ceremonies in Egypt and in the Orient. According to James Bonwick: "Eggs were hung up in the Egyptian temples. Bunsen calls attention to the mundane egg, the emblem of generative life, proceeding from the mouth of the great god of Egypt. The mystic egg of Babylon, hatching the Venus Ishtar, fell from heaven to the Euphrates. Dyed eggs were sacred Easter offerings in Egypt, as they are still in China and Europe. Easter, or spring, was the season of birth, terrestrial and celestial" (Egyptian Belief and Modern Thought, pp. 211-212). Why do people who believe themselves to be Christians dye eggs at Easter? Do they suppose the Bible ordained, or commands, this heathen custom? There is not a word of it in the New Testament. Certainly Christ did not start it, and the apostles and early Christians did none of it! Then why should you do it today? Why follow heathenism and try to convince yourself you are a Christian? God calls such things abomination!"

[Elgama]

The Plain Truth About EASTER

Do they suppose the Bible ordained, or commands, this heathen custom? There is not a word of it in the New Testament. Certainly Christ did not start it, and the apostles and early Christians did none of it! Then why should you do it today? Why follow heathenism and try to convince yourself you are a Christian? God calls such things abomination!"

I don't think Christ objected to paganism and its teachings half as much as later Christians did - in fact the woman in Samaria would have been classed as Pagan in Biblical Times and the woman who he called a dog was also pagan. The latter showed that no matter of pagan trappings stops you from recognising Christ and all the teachings the Jews received did not help all of them recognise him (please excuse spelling am very tired)

I am very aware of the origins of the eggs, it was a Roman custom before Christianity to usurp and tweak local religions to make them more acceptable they just continued doing it when they took over Christianity. Its a Roman cultural thing more than a Pagan thing that usurped the festivals. But the symbolism used at Easter is more creative and can be taught in a more spiritual and relevant manner. I am not anti Pagan teaching in anyway shape or form an ex druid boyfriend taught me a lot that enriches me as a Latter Day Saint.

Having said that tonight we read my daughter the story of Baboushka and tommorrow will be the legend behind the Christmas Tree Fairy. They are fun for her to know

-Charley