Bush Dodgers

[Winnie G]

'Bush dodgers'

Oh you guys will love this

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/stor...ub=CTVNewsAt11#

I did not take my aunt and uncle seriously till they wrote today.

Yup they want to come north. I said youll need to learn to say A insted of huh. they giggled and said what ever it takes.

[john doe]

I say let 'em go, this country could always use less nut jobs.

[Winnie G]

Have you seen your avatar lately?

I think it is sad that my elderly uncle and aunt has to leave their beloved county so his wife can receive her hart meds at a 1/3 of the cost.

Who’s nuts?

A presdent We all know there has not been an original thought uttered by the so-called leader of the free world which has not spoon-fed to him by his staff and in my aunts case the drug companies.

[Spencer]

Aye, if you dont like living here, there's the door. Let me know if i can help you to it.

[Winnie G]

You say that’s now but what about the millions of elderly people who skip meals or go hungry because they cant afford there meds because of the government?

Every one gets old; you might want to rethink that remark.

Its like making fun of the elderly, to slow, bad drivers, etc………..

Think about it? How old are you now?

Yup lets kick the old ones out who paid in to Social Security to now be treated as a 2nd class. Im talking your parents and grandparents, if it was not for free samples my own mother would be with out food for drugs.

[shanstress70]

Winnie,

It is unfortunate that people, young or old, cannot afford the meds they need. However, I have to say that we have an excellent level of healthcare in this country... one that surpasses Canada. Sure, you can get some meds cheaper, but on the flip side, if you need an organ transplant, which country would you rather be in? The US if you don't want to wait 6 years! I work with a Canadian. She said that in her experience, when someone has certain types of healthcare concerns, they will come down to the States and pay the outrageous prices out of pocket because they know the level of care they will get here is the best.

I'm not saying there isn't a problem with our healthcare system. I don't think anyone would deny that there is. But healthcare here has its strengths and weaknesses, just like anywhere else.

Also, I'm not saying that pharmaceutical companies are honest and good, but it does cost a lot of money for all the research they do to come up with new meds for cancer, AIDS, etc.

I don't know if this is really of any help, but you could look into it for them. http://www.freemedicineprogram.com/

I have been hearing a lot about assistance programs lately.

Spencer is right though. If someone doesn't like it here, then leave. Seems like you already have, so why keep bad-mouthing the US? Just become a Canadian. I'm sure it's not that hard.

I work with several people from other countries (England, Ireland, Canada). They constantly bad-mouth the US... but they're here, aren't they? We must be doing something right!

I love this country, although I'm not crazy about our president... but I like him better than Kerry, I suppose.

[Faerie]

For the love of pete STOP blaming the government for the prices of drugs!!!!!!!!

It is NOT the government's fault and it is certainly NOT Bush's fault. Drug companies spend billions each year in research and development. They fight lawsuits and have to carry high malpractice insurance. Drugs are not cheap and are not intended to be "free."

Why are drugs so much cheaper in Canada then? Well, you're still paying for them. You have a higher level of income tax and your money is not worth as much as the American dollar. Something I learned this week is that the American military healthcare system is a socialized system. Well if THAT is the case, I am certainly happy that Kerry did not win!!! I have a friend who has been trying to get pregnant for 2 years and needs a certain type of medicine to bring on her menstrual cycle. Her military doctors refuse to give it to her, as they don't see the "neccessity" in having a monthly cycle. Yet she has a insulin disease and it's been proven that if a woman does not shed her uterine lining each month, she is put at dangerously high odds for endometrial cancer. No thanks!! I like being able to go see my specialist and get the care and treatment I want, when I want it. I don't have to wait months for my appointments. When I got pregnant, I had an ultrasound at 6 weeks to make sure everything was okay. My Canadian friends said their doctors wouldn't run blood tests, wouldn't do an ultrasound, that you had to wait until you were around 20 weeks pregnant. That is dangerous! I could go on and on and on but I will save it to spare the menfolk

You blame Bush, yet he enacted the Medicare Prescription Plan which will give medicare benefits for drugs to seniors. How is he to blame?

I agree w/ Shan, the healthcare system in America has its fair share of problems, but PLEASE be intelligent and stop blaming it on Bush. Blame it on the trial lawyers and the insurance companies.

[Setheus]

Originally posted by Winnie G@Nov 5 2004, 06:05 AM

Have you seen your avatar lately?

I ask you the same thing "Mrs lady holding a ball of fire".

[Setheus]

Faerie,shanstress, I am glad to see that at least some people have a clue!

Most people don't look at the big picture. Like myself in the military. Sure we don't make "a lot" of money and there are some who complain...on the other hand, when we get into combat situations we suffer FAR less casualty than ANY who have challenged us. Most of our deaths and injuries come from someone not paying attention and hurting or killing themselves. I personally don't mind being paid less if I have better bennies, training, and tools to get the job done.

Same with medical expences. You get what you pay for.

[Guest Unorthodox]

Originally posted by shanstress70@Nov 5 2004, 10:43 AM

Just become a Canadian.  I'm sure it's not that hard.

The Canadian government warned liberals that if they wanted to move to Canada it was not THAT easy. They need to wait in line for over a year to immigrate. Then another few years to become a citizen. They have the option of "taking a risk" and declaring "refugee" status, which could get you in immediately...but I assume the Canadians would have to make a judgement on whether or not fear of your President's policies...or fear that Terrorism will increase in the U.S....qualifies you as a refugee.

Spencer is right though.  If someone doesn't like it here, then leave.  Seems like you already have, so why keep bad-mouthing the US?

I am a Canadian living in the U.S.

I love both countries equally. It is possible, you know. If you are not a liberal or conservative, and consider yourself more "moderate", like I do, then I can feel "patriotism" for both nations.

I would move back to Canada if the Terrorist threat became too high...if bombs were blowing up every week in my city.

I would move to Canada if I lost my health insurance.

I might move back to Canada if nuclear waste was being delivered by train past my city every day on its way to Nevada for the next 10 years.

Heck, I might move back because I like the trees.

For now, I am happy to be in the U.S.

Life is good here...so far.

[shanstress70]

I'm all for Canadians, or anyone else, being here if they don't constantly bad-mouth the US. That's my beef with Winnie. It seems like in 80% of her posts, she is talking her anti-American crap. It gets old.

[Outshined]

If someone wants to leave the country over the election, more power to 'em. Take your ball and go home, but do us a favor and don't try to come back when you like the choice the country makes in the next election. Grown-ups stick with it even when they don't like the man in charge. We did it with Clinton (yech!), you can do it with Bush.

If not, don't let the door hit ya in the tushie!

[Winnie G]

Medicare benefits for drugs to seniors

Not for every senior if you make 1 dollar over the cap you are out of luck.

Your friend has miss lead you or has a wack O for a doctor.

At you first visit to the doctor if your pregnant your sent to the lab for blood tests urine tests you name it.

My daughter is just three months and she has had two ultrasounds already.

It was that way when I had four children under the Canadian heath care.

My friend had a kidney transplant from her brother she did not have to wait years the trouble with transplant waits is the lack of organs.

That could change if the government repels helmet laws so we would have more donor cycles out on the roads with out helmets.

Healthcare system in America yes has its faults, if you have coverage or money your ok.

Unlike my sister who is now dieing, of coarse the % of Americas with out any of the above are out of luck.

When was the last uninsured kidney transplant? The transplant is just the beginning there are the 1000’s of dollars in meds to fallow for years………

When heath care is open to all Americas I will then stop blaming the government democrat or republican.

Setheus ball of fire

(fire of truth)

shanstress70 anti-American crap

Why is a different opinion other then yours anti-American crap?

I am for American one that truly was home to all not just the haves and the have-nots.

How could the American I love allow whole families live in small travel trailers in run down parks I saw in Salt Lake and just down from my mothers home. The sad thing about it is not my friend in Salt Lake or my family in Oregon noticed them till I asked how that could happen? I compare Canada to the US because that is what I have to compare it too.

[Snow]

Originally posted by Winnie G@Nov 4 2004, 10:04 PM

I did not take my aunt and uncle seriously till they wrote today.

Yup they want to come north. I said youll need to learn to say A insted of huh. they giggled and said what ever it takes.

I am sorry that you have family members who are so shallow and weak minded and unpatriotic that they would leave the country simply because they didn't get their way in an election. Tell me Winnie, do they often pout, throw temper tantrum ans threaten to hold their breath until they turn blue if they don't get their way?

Hopefully if they really do move, they won't move so close to you that you actually have to see them very often.

[shanstress70]

Originally posted by Winnie G@Nov 6 2004, 09:35 AM

Medicare benefits for drugs to seniors

Not for every senior if you make 1 dollar over the cap you are out of luck.

Your friend has miss lead you or has a wack O for a doctor.

At you first visit to the doctor if your pregnant your sent to the lab for blood tests urine tests you name it.

My daughter is just three months and she has had two ultrasounds already.

It was that way when I had four children under the Canadian heath care.

My friend had a kidney transplant from her brother she did not have to wait years the trouble with transplant waits is the lack of organs.

That could change if the government repels helmet laws so we would have more donor cycles out on the roads with out helmets.

Healthcare system in America yes has its faults, if you have coverage or money your ok.

Unlike my sister who is now dieing, of coarse the % of Americas with out any of the above are out of luck.

When was the last uninsured kidney transplant? The transplant is just the beginning there are the 1000’s of dollars in meds to fallow for years………

When heath care is open to all Americas I will then stop blaming the government democrat or republican.

Setheus ball of fire

(fire of truth)

shanstress70 anti-American crap

Why is a different opinion other then yours anti-American crap?

I am for American one that truly was home to all not just the haves and the have-nots.

How could the American I love allow whole families live in small travel trailers in run down parks I saw in Salt Lake and just down from my mothers home. The sad thing about it is not my friend in Salt Lake or my family in Oregon noticed them till I asked how that could happen? I compare Canada to the US because that is what I have to compare it too.

Well, obviously the reason your friend didn't have to wait for a kidney is b/c her brother was giving her his... what's there to wait FOR?

Are there really no trailers in Canada? Come on, Winnie! You're telling me that every person who would be in sub-standard housing gets a nice house from the gov't?

I think not!

[Winnie G]

TRAVIL TRALERS!

No under the law you cannot take up residence in a “travel trailer”.

Under the children’s heath and safety act. No more then three children can share a bedroom and they must be the same sex. I had four children and I had to rent a three-bedroom apartment my three boys were in one and my daughter in another.

The laws differ from province to province but that is a government standard.

My dear freand had to wait one year for her transplant, More immediate cases come first.

She was stable on dialysis so she waited. Of course money take precedence in the US.

You did not answer my remark:

When was the last uninsured kidney transplant? The transplant is just the beginning there are the 1000’s of dollars in meds to fallow for years………

There is no positive answer to it is there?

I am no fool, I know what goes on in the states, I have family there a mother two bothers a sister four aunts and uncles and so on……………….

SNOW:

am sorry that you have family members who are so shallow and weak minded and unpatriotic that they would leave the country simply because they didn't get their way in an election. Tell me Winnie, do they often pout, throw temper tantrum ans threaten to hold their breath until they turn blue if they don't get their way?

Snow your remarks do not surprise me, you’re the love it or leave it type, what you fail to see in your small mind is some elderly Americans have no choice to be angry at a government who allows drug companies to gouge the most needy those who have given their all only to have their golden years asking for what is due them.

My uncle served his county WW2 was a Minster for thirty years and was full time teacher to mentally handicap children. He raised five children three who served in Vietnam with honor and all at the same time he took in children so mentally retarded their families abandon them to a foster care system that housed them in deplorable conditions.

Yup shallow and weak minded and unpatriotic. GO SUCK ON A WET ROPE!

[Larry Kozlowski]

Originally posted by Snow@Nov 6 2004, 11:23 AM

Hopefully if they really do move, they won't move so close to you that you actually have to see them very often.

That's why I moved to Utah.

[Snow]

Originally posted by Winnie G@Nov 7 2004, 12:09 AM

SNOW:

am sorry that you have family members who are so shallow and weak minded and unpatriotic that they would leave the country simply because they didn't get their way in an election. Tell me Winnie, do they often pout, throw temper tantrum ans threaten to hold their breath until they turn blue if they don't get their way?

Snow your remarks do not surprise me, you’re the love it or leave it type, what you fail to see in your small mind is some elderly Americans have no choice to be angry at a government who allows drug companies to gouge the most needy those who have given their all only to have their golden years asking for what is due them.

You are 100% percent wrong. I am just the opposite of the love-it-or-leave-it type. You should have deduced that from my post. I think that real Americans, who love freedom, who love their country, who aren't liberal cowards would stay in their country and make themselves an agent for change instead of fleeing to Canada like spoiled brats because their candidate didn't get elected.

You can pretend that this is about them not being able to afford drugs but that is a bunch of garbage with a capital P. Drug prices would not have automatically decreased under Kerry, they may well have stayed the same or even increased.

You can claim that drug companies gouge patients but you aren't demostrating it. In fact the pharmaceutical industry does not make inordinate amounts of profit. They are in line with other industries as I understand it. It is not the government that allows drug companies to make a profit. It is the principle of freedom and liberty. If a company invents/discovers something and you want it, then you have can buy it. If you don't care for the price then don't buy it. Just because Canada does not have a free market does not mean that American has to abandon liberty and freedom.

It is such nonsense that you what the relatives are just "asking for what is due them." They are not DUE subsidized medicine (and yes the govermentally controlled and priced drugs in Canada are subsidized by free market America -US). They are due what they pay for. This not is a socialistic state. Working for 40 years does not entitle you to Zocor for a buck and a half. Have you ever noticed that in the big scheme of medicine Cananda doesn't discover squat? America drives the drug industry and you guys get a free(er) ride because your country restricts freedom.

[Setheus]

Well put.

[Guest Unorthodox]

Originally posted by Snow@Nov 7 2004, 11:51 AM

You are 100% percent wrong. I am just the opposite of the love-it-or-leave-it type. You should have deduced that from my post. I think that real Americans, who love freedom, who love their country, who aren't liberal cowards would stay in their country and make themselves an agent for change instead of fleeing to Canada like spoiled brats because their candidate didn't get elected.

Everyone is going to have different opinions on which system works better FOR THEM. So arguing over which system works better is just one opinion vs. another.

As for patriotism...patriotism (or Nationalism, or whatever you want to call it) has a good side, but also a bad side.

The good side is the sense of superiority or righteousness you can have from belonging to a "nation".

The bad side is that if you are born into a nation, or become a citizen of a nation, "patriots" expect you to stay there or you are called a traitor?

Then I guess every immigrant who came to America looking for a better life was a traitor to their original country?

No...they just MOVED.

Why can't people go freely across borders to the nation that suits them best without being criticized?

Nationalism.

Why can't they move back and forth whenever one nation favors their situation over the other?

Nationalism.

Sad that as human beings we can not choose our government and nation and be free to change our minds as many times as we like. That would be TRUE FREEDOM.

True freedom is not "love it or leave it" nor is it "you must stay here and help us work for change from within.

True freedom is "do what you want to do"...travel the world without being blocked by borders...maybe someday we will be able to, but for now we must "immigrate".

If you are willing to go through the paperwork to move to another country (and even to move back again some day), and you are not doing any harm to anyone, then you are truly exercising your God-given freedom (which is more powerful than the freedom the Constitution of the USA (or Canada) will give you.

As a child of God, live where you wish, and change your mind as often as you wish.

[Ray]

After my visit to Victoria and Vancouver Island, I seriously thought about moving there myself. Not because I don’t enjoy and appreciate the United States of America, but because Canada is so beautiful. Or at least that part of it is.

But alas, I have decided to stay here around my neck of the woods in Portland Oregon, mostly because I have things set up pretty well for me already and it would be a real pain for me to move. :)

[Larry Kozlowski]

It would be cool to move to Pakistan if only to tell all your friends (in Apu-like voice), "I live in Packy-stan!"... That alone would be priceless. Plus I heard it's a very safe place to call home if you're a demented weirdo who's running from The Law.

[Guest Unorthodox]

Yes, as I said earlier in this thread...it is possible to love both countries. And even the whole world (the free world, anyway).

[john doe]

Un,

I am reminded of the old saying "freedom isn't free". Do you think that there is no responsibility to protect freedom? I don't believe that we need to run away whenever we feel that our liberty is threatened. Somebody has to stick around and fight for the liberty you seem to want to have without any strings attached.

As far as moving to Canada goes, if Canada wants to revel in their self righteous attitude of being more free than the US, they should be happy to open their borders to the malcontents and let them in with no restrictions placed on them. If they're too gutless to fight for the freedoms they think they have lost, and if they think they will get more freedom in Canada, then I say Canada can have them. All I would ask is that they renounce their US citizenship when they go.

[Snow]

I really have nothing bad to say about Canada, other than "it's Canada," but I always kinda wonder, why? What's it for? Why isn't it just part of the USA?

I mean it's kinda like the RLDS - we should have just annexed them a long time ago.