Preserve the marriages!

[Maya]

These days there are sooo many that end up in a devorce in our church. HOW could we help to make the marriages last!? What are we not doing right, as there are so many devorces!? What could the Church do?

Here are some thoughts of mine about devorces:

The world has changed enormously in last 100 years. The preasure on families is enormous and the expectations in Church add up to that.

The money slavery is real, no one (almost) is able to live without a work and earning. So you need a good work.

On an other hand it is easier today for a woman to manage with kids without marriage, this makes it easier to a woman to leave in any situation.

Suddenly the bad has become EXTREEMLY bad, so bad that you are a nutcase if you think you should endure to the end. Forgiveness is absolutely unpopular.

Many bad things, that are aimed to destroy families, are a lot easier awailable to everybody than before.

Gossips have been around always and will be, but there too the judgemental tone has jumped up many degrees.

Is somethig wrong with our committment level or what?? Before they endured so much more, should we as LDS try more?

All too many times I hear about men that have kind of fallen of the selestical ride. Why do they fall??

Are the expectations for both sides after all too much? Do we live in reality or in the deam of a LDS family potret?

Some cures I think would be good:

A lot more studying the scriptures for those that dont do it. Maybe the Church should make scripture study rings, where usual devorce problems would be discussed in samller groups. NOT only for those with problems but for everyone... no one wants to say they have a problem.

As no one wants to admit they have a problem these should be discussed in ALL priesthood quarums starting from the youngest, as from there they grow up to good or bad: How to handle your temper. Good ways to let the steam out. Pornography. Respect thowards women in general(ok I agree some women are not worth it, but still they are women). Differance between a rape and the normal action with wife. Problems with children and sex. Abuse of any kind. The womans need to have beauty and security in their life. The womans ned to priesthood LEADER in the family. What to do when you have done a whooper or a wrong step? The womans need today of the man taking his part in childrencare and work at home. What to do with a woman that has fallen?

For women... in previous years we have been tought homemaking and gospel. What I think we should consentrate is : How to become better persons in everyday life. How to controll the most strongest muscle in our body... the tongue!?How to support and help our DHs? How to help MY family thowards the selestical? How to forgive? What to forgive? How to see light in the tunnel? How to stop goshiping, judging, demanding too much? How to keep the balls in air? What to do with your DH that has fallen?

And to everyone: What to do if you fall? It is not really the end of the world you know... no one is perfect. Choose your spouse with care and then STICK to it! How to keep strong in faith as a family in this world we live in!

Edited December 8, 2008 by Maya

[rampion]

There's only so much that we can do about the conditions out there in the world, other than to not invite those things into our own lives, homes, communities.

Finding solutions takes looking at what factors that we are responsible contribute to the problem, and what we can do about them. Why are all those LDS people getting divorced?

It wouldn't surprise me if there are some things, besides what is going on in the world, within our culture and the church, that become problems. I haven't interviewed a representative sample of broken up LDS couples to present a confident answer, but there is one thing that stands out to me. Especially in some parts of Utah, but also throughout the church, young people are bombarded with that temple marriage is the most important thing and nothing else should matter. As a result, people feel pressured just to get to the temple and get married as fast as they can, and they don't spend enough time first growing up and discovering themselves as individuals and learning what is important to them. Some take a leap of faith and marry before they are ready to support themselves, especially the women, who don't think that they will need to have careers because they ought to be at home with the kids. So we have a lot of marriages between two people who aren't complete alone and think that being sealed to someone else will solve all of their problems. These are marriages that are at risk because in a healthy relationship both people are complete, and together they share who each of them is, and each of them knows and is responsible for himself or herself.

So, I think we need to address the pressures and the unrealistic expectations that many of our young people have, so that they can make better choices from the start. Maybe relationship counseling should be encouraged before marriage, for everyone, because as a group we have some big misconceptions about relationships.

[Guest DeborahC]

My ex-husband and I have had this conversation a few times. We were young (28) when we divorced, leaving me with 3 young sons to rear alone because I chose to move to another state (near my family).

In retrospect, we really did not try hard enough.

We were both selfish.

Neither of us would take one step toward the middle.

As a result, our sons suffered life without their father being present, and he and I have regretted our decision for 30 years. Now it is too late, as he is remarried and I am in a 13 year relationship.

BUT, based on my experience, I look back and see that we really were never given the tools to succeed.

Our parents had been divorced, so we didn't have strong family role models.

The church was more interested in punishing us than helping us, at that time (it seemed).

What I wish?

I wish that the Church leaders would read Harville Hendrix' books called Getting the Love You Want (for married people) or Keeping the Love You Find (for singles). I wish they'd offer free books to those in trouble because this is a very inexpensive self-counseling course that WORKS! I wish they'd offer enough free counseling to get people to the place where they DO the exercises in Hendrix' workbook or even offer FREE GROUP COURSES in the book, which is what has saved THIS relationship I'm in now.

I think the Church has it 100% right when it discourages television, movies, modes of dress, and encourages strong families. I do think they often stress the family too much with callings, which can be a burden. This is not to say they should not have callings, but that perhaps the callings should be more carefully thought out.

Well.. that's all I can think of right now. But this was a question close to my heart.

TRY HARDER, COUPLES!

READ HENDRIX's book, even if your mate will not!

It will give you valuable insight to WHY you chose this person and WHY, if you dump them, you'll just end up with the EXACT SAME TYPE of person again!

[BenRaines]

Deborah, you hit the nail on the head with your statement that Selfishness is the cause of most if not all divorce. I added the most if not all.

I stand with President Spencer W. Kimball when he said that any man and woman can have a very successful marriage if they are both unselfish. It is when selfishness is manifest that couples get in to trouble.

Thinking of me me me is a selfish act and I think that this is what we find of most current divorce.

Ben Raines

[Islander]

Amen!!! I say selfishness IS the cause of divorce.

[Maya]

I really think this is a very big problem today. As families break the kids dont have such good knowledge of what marriage is all about.

I myself have a broken marriage behind me. I do have some mixed feelings about my marriage then. I do know I love my husband of today more, than I eve loved my ex. I try to comfort myself by telling me that : but then I had no knowledge of the gospel so I could not really know... Didnt I really? As I was married to him I had a gut feeling that people who marry should stay together. We were both selfish. He wanted me out of the church and I wanted him in the church... but that was not the main reason, not for me anyway. It may have been an eyeopner to both of us, but the selfish handlings after were the cause.

Many times when the other one is not doing as he/she should in the others opinion, then the other starts to do selfish things. All we can do is to watch ourself, that it is NOT I who dose anything selfish. Going around telling that the other one is selfish does not help any. On the contrary it irritates the other one... here the onbly thing that helps is our mesters advice... if someone wants your shirt give him/her also your jacket.... and hope the other will se what is going on, because if he/she does not... I am sorry!

Hendrix.. the love you find... I need to buy that to my kids... maybe the other one to those already married. Thanks interesting.

Selfishness is the cause of devorces... I agree. Even if it is triggered by selfishnes of the other. How to awoid going in that "squarrels wheel" even if we se the selfishness in the other. Soon it will be a fight of selfisness where the other tries to overdo the others selfisness...

Sometimes I think maybe it would be better, that people have to live together leagally married, but not Temple married for 5-8 years before they are allowed the Temple marriage...

Also the truth is that married couples are a lot more together today than before. Before the mans work may have been to travell all over. This would give them a welcome pause and love would be even more fantastic, when he finally was at home again. Ofcourse this has its dangers too, especially if one do not understand the meaning of marriage and the responsibilities in it. It is easy to find someone else...

Here at the outskirts of the Church... you know there is no prof. Church counseling just the wordly profs, who are by no means LDS, not even friendly to religion in many times... if you dare to keep your head about the religion... you are not "willing to take counseling"

[rampion]

Mailis, I would really love to go to Norway and be a counselor there. It is fairly recent that mental health professionals in the U.S. have started to recognize the benefits and importance of religion. It will catch on there too in time.

[Elgama]

I do not think it would be right to forgo a Temple Marriage for several years at all. As Latter Day Saints we have great resources, there are insitute manuals and a prophet to guide us. All that is required for a successful marriage is to listen to the prophets and what they have taught us about marriage over the years, if we are failing in a marriage where there are two good people and no abuse or affairs we are merely not being obedient to the counsel we have been given.

We are taught a very different idea of what love is to what most people are taught, yet many LDS still chase the lust ideal and do not make true love a goal in their marriage. We have the option of learning how to choose a good partner etc. I was disturbed when I taught a youth gospel doctrine class for a few weeks on their list of things to look for only one young woman had stated a Temple Recommend to which he holds true. That was all she had on her list

-Charley

Edited December 9, 2008 by Elgama

[Maya]

Rampion... you would be most welcome! My oldest daughter had problems and went to a shrink... she/he told her that religion is the worst you can have... this is over 10 years ago. I know we have 2-3 that are studying psyhology and are members, so I hope they will make the change.

So true Elgama. I would go even a bit further by saying that many men with abuse or affair problems can change, but if not so.... bye,bye.

[Elgama]

So true Elgama. I would go even a bit further by saying that many men with abuse or affair problems can change, but if not so.... bye,bye.

After my Dad only way my husband gets to stay with me after an affair is under the patio. I personally could not accept even one, I have met men that have only had one, but have yet to meet one have 2 or more and stop, same goes for abuse after my background, I feel that if the man in my life did that he has broken my trust beyond repair.

-Charley

[Maya]

Yes Elgama past has a lot to do with how we react. Sometimes I wonder if we really are supposed to get all those experiences we get.

[Elphaba]

I still cannot believe how selfish I was at a certain point in my life. I don't think I'll ever stop the regret.

I do understand why I did what I did, and frankly, it would have been almost impossible for me not to, despite what I say here.

But then, that's how we learn just how selfish it is, when we see the hurt in our loved ones eyes.

I consider myself a fairly decent human being, and I cannot believe the things I have done, just because I was driven . . . driven to do what I wanted to do regardless of how it affected any one else.

I also know my childhood has much to do with my actions. Severe abuse destroys human beings.

People have forgiven me. I hope it's real.

Elphaba

[Maya]

Sometimes you just kind of get in the middle of things and no matter what you do ,you hurt someone, even though you have not done anything wrong. I suppose then you just have to try to think how you can hurt the people least!

To Elfeba

[foreverafter]

HOW could we help to make the marriages last!? What are we not doing right, as there are so many devorces!? What could the Church do?

Every divorce is caused by at least one spouse (sometimes both) abusing the other in some way. Abuse has existed for 6000 years in most marriages throughout the world. The Prophets, especially Pres. Hinckley, wanted everyone to learn about abuse & not tolerate it & how to stop it & help their spouse repent. But above all, we need to respond with Unconditional Love & commitment to our covenants & spouse & marriage, even if from a safe distance & never give up on our spouse.

Edited March 1, 2009 by foreverafter

[Cadley]

Just wanted to add some input from one who is currently trying to repair a marriage that has been falling apart almost from the beginning. Husband had an affair recently, has broken contact with the other woman, but we're still suffering from the aftermath. We had some brief counseling from a bishop about a year ago, but didn't continue when we changed wards, so things kept getting worse. I was so miserable, when I heard about the affair, I was angry and distressed, but part of me was relieved because I thought this was my final out, I could justify a divorce. The Lord be praised for a wonderful bishop who counseled me that temple covenants are received only with the Lord's permission, and therefore can be broken only with the Lord's permission. So yes, there are times when we are justified in a divorce, but the Lord needs to make that decision, not us. So I followed his counsel to go to the temple and seek the Lord's will, and I'm following the guidance I received from the Lord there. Even for those who aren't married in the temple, I think the principle is the same. Marriage is sacred, regardless of where the ceremony is performed. The Lord should decide if things have gone beyond reconciliation.

One thing I would tell couples who are having struggles: go see your bishop before things are a disaster. Even if it seems like things are little, and you should be able to handle it on your own. There is some stigma attached to attending "marriage counseling" even on an informal level, and it shouldn't be such a big deal. Just having an impartial party who can talk to both partners and assess the situation can make such a difference. I wish I'd gotten help in the early stages of our marriage, but I waited until I started to fall apart, and thankfully, the bishop recognized that something was wrong, and reached out to me. So much heartache could have been avoided if I had gone in three years ago instead of a year ago.

[LittleWyvern]

Why isn't this in the "preserving marriage between a man and a woman" sub-forum?

[InnerGold]

Get rid of pornography! Seriously, one thing we have noticed is pornography is at the root to a lot of marital problems. I am not saying all but a good majority. Don't bring the filth into our homes. I am not talking about magazines or even looking on the web. I am talking about TV shows. Family Guy, Nip & Tuck, etc.. you get my point. These shows are loaded with soft porn which is a trigger for most men. If you could agree as a couple to get rid of stuff like this, you could have one of the happiest marriages ever! Instead of watching TV and filling your brain with junk. You would be playing games. Going on walks. Outdoor activities etc.

Another thing we have noticed is gaining an education about addiction and learn how you can talk with someone without condoning the behavior. You can read about this a little with an article we wrote for ecclesiastical leaders.

[countrygirl66]

President Hinkley said (I don't have the exact words) but it was basically if we would spend our time in pursuit of the happiness of our spouse, divorce would almost completely dry up. I have known of a few situations where I think divorce was the best option, but in most cases it comes about from someone trying to make themselves happy instead of concentrating on the happiness of their spouse. Marriage is not always easy but somehow a lot of young people getting married seem to think there should be no hard times. That just isn't so. Life is full of good and bad times, marriage is about going through them with someone you love and are committed to. I grew up around so much divorce, and most of the commentary I always heard started with I or me. I have been married 23 years and yes I have made tons of mistakes and we have had ups and downs. But when we are the happiest is when we are trying to make each other happy instead of ourselves.

[foreverafter]

Divorce may be a necessity in rare cases for legal & safety reasons, but that does not mean the marriage is ended. One spouse can still hold the marriage together by their faithfulness. The Prophets have said that civil divorces do not break Temple Sealings, only unfaithfulness on the part of both does. And if one is still sealed to a spouse that means they are 100% completely married to them. There is no such thing as 1/2 way married (divorced but still sealed) That is why the Prophet's say to never ever give up on our wicked spouses, no matter what they do. It's when both spouses break their covenants to love & serve & be faithful to each other that really ends the marriage. One can be divorced & still be 100% legally & lawfully married to the other spouse, for our current divorce laws & decrees are usually not Constitutional & according to God's laws & thus are not valid to God. God does not honor or recognize corrupt laws or decrees. So unless both spouses break their covenants AFTER divorce (& start dating or remarry) they are both still married. And one can just wait for & help their adulterous or abusive spouse repent &/or return some day, for they all do eventually.

Edited March 20, 2009 by foreverafter

[Hemidakota]

There's only so much that we can do about the conditions out there in the world, other than to not invite those things into our own lives, homes, communities.

Finding solutions takes looking at what factors that we are responsible contribute to the problem, and what we can do about them. Why are all those LDS people getting divorced?

It wouldn't surprise me if there are some things, besides what is going on in the world, within our culture and the church, that become problems. I haven't interviewed a representative sample of broken up LDS couples to present a confident answer, but there is one thing that stands out to me. Especially in some parts of Utah, but also throughout the church, young people are bombarded with that temple marriage is the most important thing and nothing else should matter. As a result, people feel pressured just to get to the temple and get married as fast as they can, and they don't spend enough time first growing up and discovering themselves as individuals and learning what is important to them. Some take a leap of faith and marry before they are ready to support themselves, especially the women, who don't think that they will need to have careers because they ought to be at home with the kids. So we have a lot of marriages between two people who aren't complete alone and think that being sealed to someone else will solve all of their problems. These are marriages that are at risk because in a healthy relationship both people are complete, and together they share who each of them is, and each of them knows and is responsible for himself or herself.

So, I think we need to address the pressures and the unrealistic expectations that many of our young people have, so that they can make better choices from the start. Maybe relationship counseling should be encouraged before marriage, for everyone, because as a group we have some big misconceptions about relationships.

Good call. Reminds me of last night when watching the series called 'Bones', I was appalled when viewing with my wife [usually I do not watch this type of show but need the time with my beloved companion] Lesbian activities was inserted into the show. You know, overtime, the general public will accept this as a norm and part of today's society. Horrorwood has a strong accord to promote their own agenda to the world.

Anyone heard of "BREAD and CIRCUS"? We heading down that path on which the Romans did fail as a empire.

[Islander]

Divorce is ALWAYS about selfishness/arrogance. At the core of whatever issues that manifest themselves in the form of abuse, abandonment or addiction, we find selfishness. My grandma did not know words like charity so she defined it as our lack of mercy and kindness towards others. "Men have no reason to be good, except they have the desire to please God more than themselves" she said.

We covet what we see. We become seduced by the things of the world that come into our home via TV, magazines, the internet, music and we become fixated in that. We have unrighteous desires, we become preoccupied with those things and we lust and salivate after them until we succumb completely to the enticement of the enemy. And give in to sin and reject the gift of God and trample over His holy things by breaking the covenant.

It is really that simple.