For those with marriage issues

[interalia]

Well, let's be careful how we define the term. As is often the case, the dictionary gives us more than one definition:

Seems to me that #2 and maybe #3 is what you are (rightly, IMO) opposed to. But it seems to me that #'s 1 and 4 are not only expressions of a normal, God-given sex drive, but part of a male's makeup. Meaning it travels with him like his own toes, and he couldn't do anything to get rid of it if he tried. It seems to me a wife would prefer #'s 1 and 4 gets pointed her way instead of some other direction, since it will end up pointed somewhere...

LM

I'm not so sure, your assertion that men have some sort powerful (good) lust that must be pointed somewhere seems to imply that men cannot control their sexual appetites. If this is the case, how are the expected to be chaste before marriage or after divorce? Being chaste would of course include NOT looking upon a woman (or anything else for that matter) to lust after her.

I feel that sometimes men get a pass on having an "oversexed" mind, but I do not feel this is natural, but rather the product of some men (and women) over their lives choosing to indulge in sexual appetites through thought and action like looking at pornography, admiring a sexually appareled woman too long, or fantasizing about sexual interactions.

I believe chaste men (this includes the married ones of course who are supposed to only love their wives) are expected never to lust and to be able to control their sexual desires despite their intensity. If they cannot, then they may have a pathological addiction and need help.

Our culture may indulge and even permit this idea of the sex-craved indulgent male, but I do not believe it is a real attribute of men, no more than I believe it is in a woman's genes to go shopping. It's a learned behavior.

Edited January 8, 2009 by interalia
Corrections, added another line.

[akindheart]

This Dr. Laura vid is spot on. I love it! As I watched it I wondered how many relationships would be saved if everyone took this advice. Quote

This comment, along with Dr. Laura's comments, hit a nerve for some people here ,including myself and I would like to explain why it has for me..

My first husband left me because my stomach wasn't as flat and my you know whats weren.'t as perky and my hair thinned out, all after having his child.. I tried to look my best, but it wasn't good enough. I was devastated when he left me for the blonde beauty at work and I started drinking as a result .My oldest son has a lot of problems to this very day because of my drinking. . Looks were very important to my first husband, yet i had no control over mine..

It is this very fixation people have on looks that is causing so much distress in society today. Women starve themselves or purge to look perfect, people are obsessed with plastic surgery and some even suffer form Body Dysmorphic Disorder because they obsess so much over it.

I went to my dad;s funeral without any makeup on my face a few years ago and my aunt who obviously is into looks, kept commenting on how sickly i looked. I tried to explain to her that she has never seen me without makeup on before and that I've always had dark circles, but just always covered them up.. She was so fixated on me that i had to leave the funeral home.

There are people in this world who have made looks so important that they say and do hurtful things to the people they love.. If a marriage is failing because a person is fixated on their spouse's looks then it is that very fixation that is the destroyer; and we all know who is responsible for the destruction of mankind.

I am lucky to have a husband who cares more about my happiness then my looks.and visa versa

There are so may other ways to please your soul mate For example: my husband loves how happy i am to see him when he comes home from work or when I make his favorite meal.

I love the little notes he leaves me when i'm not feeling well.

Doing nice things for each other is something we can control , but we can't always control the way we look or the way other people look.

..

Edited January 8, 2009 by akindheart

[Elgama]

your husband sounds great Kind, I am lucky to have one like that too he's a great man, I know my parents didn't want me to marry him because to quote my Mother he is fat, ugly, slob, he is overweight but he is far from ugly.

I know I can get him home and whatever situation will be dealt with, with love

-Charley

[interalia]

Akindheart,

I am so sorry that happened to you, and I can certainly see how the ideas presented by Dr. Laura might be particularly difficult for you. At the same time I am so happy you for two reasons, 1) that you found out this about your former husband as quickly as you did because there is a good chance if you had kept trying to keep up with his standard, you might have been a lot older before he made the same choice. In fact I feel somewhat bad for any woman he may end up with. 2) that you seem to have a wonderful husband now!

As a side note because I like seeing peace and good feelings prevail:

I realize you quoted ruthiechan as to one of the things that touched a nerve. I just wanted you to know that despite this, ruthiechan is a very considerate individual on these forums, and I hoped you would not think otherwise. You and I both disagree with Dr. Laura on this subject, but I hope that you will not feel any bitterness toward those who do agree with her - this is a great forum!

[akindheart]

[quote by interalia

As a side note because I like seeing peace and good feelings prevail:

I realize you quoted ruthiechan as to one of the things that touched a nerve. I just wanted you to know that despite this, ruthiechan is a very considerate individual on these forums, and I hoped you would not think otherwise. You and I both disagree with Dr. Laura on this subject, but I hope that you will not feel any bitterness toward those who do agree with her - this is a great forum!

I too like seeing peace and good feelings prevail and i assure everyone here that i have no bitterness. One thing I love is when people can agree to disagree. I guess I just see the bigger picture here and i hoped by sharing my story that other people would to.

I hope i haven't offended anyone here because that was never my intention and i mean that sincerely.

akindheart

[NeuroTypical]

your assertion that men have some sort powerful (good) lust that must be pointed somewhere seems to imply that men cannot control their sexual appetites.

Of course you can't control your appetites. You just control what you do with them, how you direct them, how you satisfy or ignore them. You can have some impact over enhancing or subduing them, but no, you can't control an appitite. I wish more people understood this.

A good book on the subject, approved by the church:

And They Were Not Ashamed: Strengthening Marriage Through Sexual Fulfillment

The book quotes President Harold B. Lee a little:

President Lee calls sex a "divine impulse" and a "holy impulse." He also provides insight into a common misconception of the male sex drive. It is a physiological function for men, but, as he states, it is not a "mere biological urge." Men not only need sexual relations to satisfy their divinely created sex drive, but this sacred sexual union between husband and wife is also an important means for expressing and receiving the highest form of love.

Elder Hugh B. Brown said, "The powerful sex drives are instinctive, which is to say, God-given, and therefore are not evil."

So yes, normal men have a normal sex drive - complete with appetites, urges, leanings, desires, tendencies, the whole 9 yards. It's not learned, it's God-given.

LM

[MorningStar]

Oh man, I watched it and it got me steamed - primarily from the implication (and perhaps I read too much into it) that if you, as a woman, do not make yourself appear the way your husband wants you to, then you will somehow drive him to look at other women or pornography.

If that is what the implication is, then that is dead wrong! Men (and women I have to add) look at pornography because they have objectified the people they are looking at. They have turned them into objects of lust! I wouldn't want to be the object of my husband's LUST - it means I'm no longer human to him!

I wonder if she would give the same advice to the guys who are also letting themselves go?

Argh!!!

Oh yeah, that part really bugged. A friend of mine has the body of a super model, always looks good, has a well-run home, an awesome meal on the table every day, and her husband looks at porn. He's trying to stop, but he looks at it. She is also a very supportive wife.

[applepansy]

Oh yeah, that part really bugged. A friend of mine has the body of a super model, always looks good, has a well-run home, an awesome meal on the table every day, and her husband looks at porn. He's trying to stop, but he looks at it. She is also a very supportive wife.

I hope she's not supporting him in looking at porn. That's a recipe for disaster.

applepansy

[MorningStar]

Some of my thoughts on the video:

1. Some women really do "let themselves go".

2. Some men have really unrealistic expectations for their wives to look the same as the day they met, even after having babies.

3. If a woman doesn't look good at the end of the day, there's a good chance it's because she has baby vomit on everything she was wearing earlier.

4. If a woman looks frumpy while cooking an awesome dinner, the husband should count his lucky stars.

5. Does the wife who "let herself go" get a break from the kids? How supportive is her husband? Does he ever cook dinner? Does he ever bring home takeout? How long since he has complimented her on anything?

6. My friend's husband complains about her weight gain (even though she has had 3 kids and has a thyroid problem) but when she joined the gym, he complained when he had to watch the kids. He wants her to magically lose weight at home without any help from him. When I hear a question like this man asked Dr. Laura, I can't help thinking that it's from a guy similar to this who feels entitled to everything without working for it.

7. Men who look at Internet porn most likely were already looking at it before they were married and that was a low blow and I think Dr. Laura doesn't understand pornography addiction. There are countless wives who knock themselves out trying to have the perfect body and be the perfect wife in hopes of curing their husbands.

8. Dressing nice is not always practical depending on your activities and ages of your children.

9. Of course it's nice to be presentable. Good hygiene is important.

10. I think there is a line between looking good and being vain.

[MorningStar]

I hope she's not supporting him in looking at porn. That's a recipe for disaster.

applepansy

Oh, heck no. He's in therapy.

[applepansy]

Oh, heck no. He's in therapy.

That's a relief.

thank you,

applepansy

[MorningStar]

One of the things I love most about her is her sense of self-worth and confidence in her abilities. She knows she deserves better. Years ago he confessed his problem towards the beginning of their marriage. He improved, he changed, they had children, and then the Internet came along and he had a total relapse. His twin has the same problem and lost his job for surfing at work, so she was terrified of the same happening as they had just taken in a family member's child, the house was undergoing a remodel, so she felt completely blindsided and terrified. But again things have improved. He has been doing everything he can to battle it, but it is still a constant struggle. Through all of this she has remained a very good mother and wife. She is amazing.

[applepansy]

One of the things I love most about her is her sense of self-worth and confidence in her abilities. She knows she deserves better. Years ago he confessed his problem towards the beginning of their marriage. He improved, he changed, they had children, and then the Internet came along and he had a total relapse. His twin has the same problem and lost his job for surfing at work, so she was terrified of the same happening as they had just taken in a family member's child, the house was undergoing a remodel, so she felt completely blindsided and terrified. But again things have improved. He has been doing everything he can to battle it, but it is still a constant struggle. Through all of this she has remained a very good mother and wife. She is amazing.

She sounds amazing. I hope that her husband will be able to change and conquer this behavior. Its a tough road and can be very hurtful for the wife.

Thank you for sharing,

applepansy

[akindheart]

One of the things I love most about her is her sense of self-worth and confidence in her abilities. She knows she deserves better. Years ago he confessed his problem towards the beginning of their marriage. He improved, he changed, they had children, and then the Internet came along and he had a total relapse. His twin has the same problem and lost his job for surfing at work, so she was terrified of the same happening as they had just taken in a family member's child, the house was undergoing a remodel, so she felt completely blindsided and terrified. But again things have improved. He has been doing everything he can to battle it, but it is still a constant struggle. Through all of this she has remained a very good mother and wife. She is amazing.

I sincerely hope that if i ever have to go through something like that with my husband, I will handle it as well as your friend has. Addictions aren't an easy thing to overcome. He's lucky to have a wife who is willing to help him and not judge him. I hope the best for them.

[ruthiechan]

This Dr. Laura vid is spot on. I love it! As I watched it I wondered how many relationships would be saved if everyone took this advice. Quote

This comment, along with Dr. Laura's comments, hit a nerve for some people here ,including myself and I would like to explain why it has for me..

My first husband left me because my stomach wasn't as flat and my you know whats weren.'t as perky and my hair thinned out, all after having his child.. I tried to look my best, but it wasn't good enough. I was devastated when he left me for the blonde beauty at work and I started drinking as a result .My oldest son has a lot of problems to this very day because of my drinking. . Looks were very important to my first husband, yet i had no control over mine..

It is this very fixation people have on looks that is causing so much distress in society today. Women starve themselves or purge to look perfect, people are obsessed with plastic surgery and some even suffer form Body Dysmorphic Disorder because they obsess so much over it.

I went to my dad;s funeral without any makeup on my face a few years ago and my aunt who obviously is into looks, kept commenting on how sickly i looked. I tried to explain to her that she has never seen me without makeup on before and that I've always had dark circles, but just always covered them up.. She was so fixated on me that i had to leave the funeral home.

There are people in this world who have made looks so important that they say and do hurtful things to the people they love.. If a marriage is failing because a person is fixated on their spouse's looks then it is that very fixation that is the destroyer; and we all know who is responsible for the destruction of mankind.

I am lucky to have a husband who cares more about my happiness then my looks.and visa versa

There are so may other ways to please your soul mate For example: my husband loves how happy i am to see him when he comes home from work or when I make his favorite meal.

I love the little notes he leaves me when i'm not feeling well.

Doing nice things for each other is something we can control , but we can't always control the way we look or the way other people look.

..

Oh, I see. Thank you.

Unfortunately your previous spouse was NOT understanding in the least about body changes. That is not cool and I do not believe any reasonable person would approve of your ex's actions. I know I don't!

When I think of "letting yourself go" I think of being unkempt, skipping showers, always dressed in over sized or worn out clothes, that sort of thing. Basically in general giving up on anything nice, and not particularly caring about the place being nice either. Weight gain is not necessarily a part of it but it can be if you never exercise and just eat mac and cheese.

I do not wear make up so that's never on my radar. I didn't even wear make up on my wedding day. When I asked my husband about it before we married he said that it would be weird because it wouldn't be me.

A woman can spend an hour before her man comes home to tidy things up and such, maybe even change clothes, which does not stop your baby from spitting all over you two seconds before Daddy comes walking through the door. Realism does need to be applied.

Also, upon reflection, I think that most people having these sorts of issues do not go out on dates with their spouse. If you have a weekly date night then every week you get to see your spouse all dolled up just for you!

I also believe that a lot of women, the moment their husband comes home starts complaining about their day and asking them to do stuff. What about his day and his feelings?

I believe that most marriage issues start when people focus on themselves and what they want instead of, what can I do for my spouse today? After all, if things aren't right between Mommy and Daddy things aren't going to be right with the kids.

[ruthiechan]

My daughter was looking for it today. She pooped on the ground and was poking it with a straw.

HAHA! Where's the LOL button when you need it?