Reconciling a marriage...

[angela]

So, I haven't posted much on here - so I will review the situation I am in. My husband left me about 18 months ago. At the time I was 2 months pregnant, and we had one other child together (I also had an older child from my previous marriage). Well, to make a long story short he suddenly quit counseling (we were living seperate and trying to work things out... or so I thought). After that it became quite apparent that he was already seeing someone else. A within 4 months of our being separated he was living with this other woman.

--On a side note, my husband was baptized (I believe genuinely) about 6 weeks before we separated. He ran completely away from the church (obviously, since he was living with another woman). I know that this man has some serious emotional problems (quite possibly even some depression himself). He also has a pornography addiction that he has always denied. His past is full of using woman, lying and cheating - but I can say without a doubt in my mind that I was prompted to be with him and stay with him when things got bad. --

I spent most of the past 18 months in a VERY deep depression. Most of the time I wanted to die. I felt so alone in miserable in my life. My husband stayed as far away from me and the kids as possible (even though he lives and works in the same small town we are in). I feel like he almost flaunted the fact that he was with someone. I on the other hand stayed loyal to my values and relied on the Church and my faith to help me struggle through my life. Eventually I had had enough of it, and filed for divorce even though I could not get a solid confirmation about it throught the Spirit. I guess I should mention that part of the reason I got so depressed is that some of my blessings (before he left, and after) had hinted at the fact that we would end up together in the long run. The promised were very vague - but I always felt that it meant we would be together.

About 2 weeks ago my husband started texting me and hinting towards wanting to again return to his family and quite possibly even chruch. Anyway, as circumstances would have it he and his girlfriend split up. He was staying at a friends house a few houses down from her when she showed up and attacked him (tried to choke him and stuff). So, I offered him my couch until he could find something better. Well, that turned into hours of talking about what happened between us and how he ran away when things got bad and returned to his old patterns... So I guess we are going to try to reconcile again.

I know we need to get back into counseling because I have sooo many hurt feelings and trust issues with this man. I question whether or not he is being sincere or whether he just needs a place to stay.

I don't even know if any of this made sense. I don't even know what I am asking here. I guess it comes down to "Is it just plain stupid to try to reconcile after our history?" I am really willing to forgive him and work towards the future... I just question whether or not he is ready and sincere.

I do want to add that we stayed up last night talking some about the gospel and about what happened between us. I do think that he does regret a lot of the things that has happened between us. He talks about going to back to church and he understands that he will have to talk to the bishop. He says he is scared of the hurt and pain he will feel. I think a lot of his "change of heart" is superficial right now, but could develop into somthing more in the future.

Edited January 17, 2009 by angela

[qtpie09]

Angela...your situation is similar to mine (I just posted a thread in the Family forum -Infidelity resulting in pregnancy...that pretty much sums it up). My husband and I are trying to reconcile after we have been seperated for almost a year in which time he cheated on me AND the other woman is pregnant.

These are the toughest times of a marriage, but I encourage you to stay strong to your core beliefs and values and to not waiver. Stand up for yourself and take the steps you need to take in order to realize that you are worthy to be in a loving marriage..worthy to be with someone who will fight for you and your marriage vows as much as you fight for them.

My husband is currently "fence-sitting" --as my councelor calls it. He says he wants to be with me and wants our marriage to work, but his actions don't correspond with his words. He says he doesn't feel right about leaving her alone 5 months pregnant, but he doesn't want to be in a relationship with her. He wants to be married to me, but he doesn't have any hope our marriage can be pulled out of the trenches so he is reluctant to commit. In short--he wants to have his cake and eat it too!

I guess what I am coming to realize and what I hope you will realize too is: YOU CAN'T LOSE WHO YOU ARE FOR THE SAKE OF ANOTHER! You have so much to live for...yourself, your kids, your friends and family, your eternal salvation. I am just saying from woman to woman...sister to sister...you can empower yourself to overcome this. Get active in anything and everything you can...that's what I am doing. My bishop suggested service...and it really does help. Start doing as much as you can to serve others and not only will blessings come your way, but you will start feeling more self worth. You will also have less time to "dwell" on the circumstance. Here are some things I have done recently to help myself cope too:

Read scriptures daily...not just the BOM, but I have found LDS.org to be a wonderful resource. Words of the Prophets and First Presidency are scripture too!

Write daily in a journal--allot only 15 mins as a "venting session" and 15 mins as "motivational/inspirational thoughts" (It usually ends up being about the scriptures I read previous to writing in my journal)

Do your Visiting Teaching--service heals a wounded heart

Set boundaries for yourself and for your spouse. I actually wrote out what I wanted from our marriage and what I need from him in order for him to gain my trust back...still working on this one

Reach out--just like you are doing. I spent months feeling "alone" and feeling ashamed of what I was going through. I didn't think anyone knew the pain. I was wrong. There are so many people who love you and want the best for you...I am finding that complete strangers here on this site are better support than my councelor. Hmmm...that might save me 80.00 buck a month! lol

Keep us posted! If you feel you need to get back to councelling...set that as one of your boundaries/guidelines for reconciliation. He should be gaining YOUR trust back and doing everything in his power to put your mind at ease.

My prayers are with you!

[pam]

YOU CAN'T LOSE WHO YOU ARE FOR THE SAKE OF ANOTHER

qtpie..that's exactly why I responded on your thread with..there comes a time when you have to say..I want the REAL ME back.

[Sequoia]

Wow, Angela. You do have a lot you're dealing with. I hate to say it, but his sudden change of heart is a little convenient; however, there are children involved, so maybe a possible second chance is worth thinking about. I really am praying you have family to help you and your kids through this.

First item though, he needs to be living outside of your house.

Are you working? Does his being back in your life provide you a break financially and with the stresses of being a single mom? I think if he energetically starts making those kinds of changes, there may be some possible truth to what he says.

Does he go to the children when they need something without you asking? Is he helping clean up with dishes/laundry/vacuuming/washing the car? Actions speak louder than words, especially over time.Will he go to counseling at least for the pornography problem? Will he even admit that problem yet?

I would definitely keep my emotions on guard and try not to get too involved yet. I would have him on "emotional probation" for quite some time. I fear he may let you down again, and the depression will hit even worse. I would not have him living there until some of these changes were made and then some time passed, like 9 months to a year.

As far as talking to the bishop, that would definitely be a requirement for any return back into my life and that of the children. It is common for someone who feels uncomfortable to have a friend drive them there, say a prayer before leaving the car, then waiting outside of the bishop's office in a chair. I would also require a hard dose of counseling. If he balks at helping you financially and with the kids/house, if he balks at talking to the bishop and going to meetings, if he balks at counseling, if it were me....I'd show him the door to my life. I never would have reopened it though, except that there are children involved.

Give him a list of what you need from him and tell him he's out of your life until he's met those changes. Tell him you'll be there to accompany him to the bishop, and that he can sit with you during church meetings. Tell him you'll go to marriage counseling after the pornography counseling is finished. But unless these needs are met for at least a year, for your sanity and the sake of your children, he's not allowed to selfishly use you or your home.

I hope this doesn't sound too harsh. I just hate to see someone play with your emotions and life, and your children's. There are some great guys out there. Our families are forever, but you may just not have found the right guy yet.

Edited January 17, 2009 by Sequoia

[BenRaines]

Wow if I were ever unfaithful to my wife I hope she would be as understanding as you all seem to be. I doubt she would be. Maybe it is fear that keeps me faithful. Fear of Hell.

Ben Raines

[qtpie09]

<<PAM>>

Okay...so I stole your line. lol (Actually my counselor says this so much I probably say it in my sleep) haha.

Slowly but surely I am seeing the light :-) As women I think it becomes naturally to put ourselves on the back burner, especially if there are people in our lives who are extremely needy. We just need to have support to pull us out of the trenches. I so much appreciate your support.

[pam]

I totally agree with what you just said.

[angela]

I am going to add a little information and answer some of the questions/suggestions... (I have to add that I was very down yesterday, and today I am doing much better.)

I cannot even begin to convey the feelings/promptings the Spirit has given me about this man. I have been prompted our entire marriage that I was to stick things out and be an example to my family. I prayed and prayed about filing for divorce after we separated. I COULD NOT get a confirmation that divorce was the correct thing to do. (Yes, even after I KNEW that he was seeing another woman and had already started down a destructive path.) It was around this time that I fell into a DEEP depression. Essentially I revolted and decided to file for divorce anyway. I rationalized it that I need the child support (but still chose divorce over legal separation). I feel like this was probably a large reason why I was depressed. I was turning away the Spirit and not following the promptings I was receiving.

I saw an LDS counselor immediately after our separation (individually first). We then went on to have a couple of joint sessions. I explained to this counselor everything I had felt and been told/promised in blessings about my husband. After praying about me/my situation/my husband she believes that she received guidance and confirmation that I was on the right track doing EVERYTHING I possibly could to work things out with this man. I hold the firm belief that I was put into this man's life to guide and help heal this broken man. I see so much possibility in this man. I have learned not to use wordly standards to measure him. Instead I pray for guidance to see him how Heavenly Father sees him. I look for his potential. I remember the light he carried about him shortly before and after his baptism. I see that he gets pulled down by the worldly challenges. I see that there can be a time in his life where he will overcome his limitations.

My husband and I have talked quite a bit lately. I do see the moments when he is deeply sincere about our situation. I see the grief and anguish that is starting to surface over some of the decisions he has made. I also watch him burry those feelings and allow them to become superficial because he IS afraid of the hurt, pain and anguish he KNOWS he needs to feel and at some time HAS to feel. He has watched tears come to my eyes when I talk about the hurt that I have felt because of his choices - and he has fought back his own tears. I also tell him that my hurt is in NO WAY a relection of his worth as an eternal being He has made some bad choices but he can repent and be forgiven by his Father (as I have already forgiven him).

YES, his timing was very convenient. But, I also know that it was a sequence of events that needed to take place to bring him to point he is at now. He has told me that when he suggested that he wanted to come back to his family - he NEVER expected me to agree. He was thrown for a loop when I said we could continue to work things out.

My big hang up right now is that to the world I appear to be stupid. It appears that this man has suckered me into taking him back because he needed a place to stay. The truth is that I have had the Spirit with me when I made the decisions to continue to work on my marriage. I still get huge flashes of doubt, which I attribute to the adversary wanting to throw me off again.

I could write novels about my feelings and emotions surrounding this whole situation... Sorry. :)

[Faded]

My own recent experiences have not been nearly that big of a mess ( http://www.lds.net/forums/advice-board/17111-blindsided-dumbstruck.html ) The one thing that I have a growing more and more sure of: Conditions for reconciliation is KEY! You need it and so does your husband.

Only you can possibly set the bar high enough for it to be enough for you to feel some sense of security. You need it. You really really do. And you need to set the bar high so you can know if he's really serious about rebuilding your trust in him. If you don't have a rigid set of rules then you're left feeling like you're hanging off the edge of a cliff. I wanted so badly to just say, "It's okay sweetie, I forgive you." and left it at that. It wasn't right. My wife needed a well defined set of goals and conditions to regain my trust and repair our marriage. Granted, it's a work in progress. I don't think I'll know for another year whether our marriage is pointing in the direction of surviving and thriving as a healthy marriage.

I was quite surprised by several things:

1.) My wife was very willing to agree to some strict rules and conditions.

2.) The first meeting with a marriage counselor, the counselor brought up this very issue before we had explained everything -- she laid it on the unfaithful partner (my wife) that, to paraphrase "It is your job to ask your husband what you can do to rebuild his trust."

3.) I'm amazed at how much better I feel already despite the fact that she committed adultery. Most of this is unquestionably because of the ground rules that we set up.

My big hang up right now is that to the world I appear to be stupid. It appears that this man has suckered me into taking him back because he needed a place to stay. The truth is that I have had the Spirit with me when I made the decisions to continue to work on my marriage. I still get huge flashes of doubt, which I attribute to the adversary wanting to throw me off again.

Man oh man do I know that feeling. Feeling like you're the biggest sucker in the world? Bingo! That's exactly how I felt and still feel to a lesser degree.

Okay, here's some suggestions. Remember, you're the boss. You write the rules. These are just things I think would help (and more importantly, to get you thinking of ideas.)

1.) Porn addiction -- This is something that you can setup limited control over. The VAST majority of porn addicts get their "fix" online because it's so easily accessible. So you need to setup the computer in such a way that he has a controlled profile (parental controls) and is locked out of the Admin account. If you're feeling clueless, my wife and I have the geek-powers to help. Just ask. For the non-Internet sources of porn, there are ways. I just don't know enough about your circumstances to tell you how.

2.) Possible suggestion to go with #1 -- You may want to get him to agree to let you monitor expendatures that he makes and have him report back to you on things. This way, if were to buy pornographic materials without your knowledge, he'd have to account for the money he spent.

3.) No female friends that are not relatives. Prior to our marriage, I had a TON of female friends. Shortly after our marriage, I realized the potential disaster. I let all those friendships die and have diligently avoided letting myself develop anything beyond acquaintance-level friendships with anyone but my wife. This meant that I would probably never be capable of cheating because I wasn't close enough to anyone for the opportunity to arise. You're husband should do this.

4.) NO being alone with any woman other than you or his own blood relatives. Not ever. This is just good sense for absolutely anyone. It's better to just never have the opportunity to slip.

5.) Limit or prohibit, "Honey I'm going out." No blank check of trusting him to be responsible. If there is a chance that he will be somewhere with someone he shouldn't be. If he's going out, if possible you'd want to go with him. If that is impossible, then work out something else. You need him to not be capable of messing up -- at least for the time being. Trust can replace this later.

6.) He would need to agree to completely end all contact with his ex-live-in girlfriend.

If this seems a bit too extreme, then build your own set of rules. But if you want to rebuild trust, you NEED a plan. And there should be more things than that -- things that are more specific and personal to the two of you.

Edited January 17, 2009 by Faded

[BenRaines]

Faded, Rules two and three should be for every man and woman. Not just those who might have a problem because if two or three are violated there is a great opportunity for there to be a problem.

Ben Raines

[Faded]

Faded, Rules two and three should be for every man and woman. Not just those who might have a problem because if two or three are violated there is a great opportunity for there to be a problem.

Ben Raines

I'm guessing that you mean (after several edits) what ended up as 3 and 4?

Yes these are things that should be in place for every marriage. I'm betting that it never was for this marriage. Angela is going to desperately need that level of security right now.

[BenRaines]

Right my error, Three and Four. Don't be alone with someone of the opposite sex. Even your best friends wife, a co-worker, etc.

As I have stated in several other threads, if I go to a friends house and he is not home I don't go in and wait for him while his wife is there. I will even wait in the car. Not done on my watch.

Ben Raines

[Faded]

Ben is wise!!

[qtpie09]

My big hang up right now is that to the world I appear to be stupid.

I'm right there with you...feeling like a sucker because "logically" I should just cut my losses and run, but emotionally and spiritually I am doing what I feel I am supposed to be doing -fighting for my marriage and fighting to save the person I love so much from the grasps of adversity. With that said, I feel more and more strongly that we only become REAL suckers if we don't set boundaries and we allow ourselves to be strung along and emotionally drained. I was scared to do this, thinking it would push my husband away and I would loose him forever, but just today we have been talking through a lot of things and he is reacting differently to me because I am standing firm and setting those standards. I'm not such a push over--I am empowered and he is realizing that I might just be okay without him. If your husband thinks you will always be there for him to run back to, he may never have the motivation to make the necessary changes...don't enable him....you might be suprised at the result. Good or bad... at least you stayed true to yourself.

Good luck!

[Faded]

Hey Angela, please let us know how things are going. Hopefully it's going well.

but just today we have been talking through a lot of things and he is reacting differently to me because I am standing firm and setting those standards. I'm not such a push over--I am empowered and he is realizing that I might just be okay without him. If your husband thinks you will always be there for him to run back to, he may never have the motivation to make the necessary changes...don't enable him....you might be suprised at the result. Good or bad... at least you stayed true to yourself.

Good luck!

Very well said. I know that we live in a culture where "unconditional love" and "unconditional forgiveness" are greatly encouraged. I'm realizing more everyday that this doesn't work for a marriage. My love and my forgiveness for my wife is unconditional -- no matter what happens I will forgive her and I will love her. That doesn't mean I stay married to her though. The survival of the marriage must be conditional. Too bad that they don't teach you these skills before you get married.

God bless both of you!