I really need help...

[igotskooled]

I have been reading "Mormon Enigma:Emma Smith". I was raised LDS, but have not been active for a long time. I started going back about six months ago. My testimony was growing until reading this book. It touches on some aspects of Joseph Smith's behavior that I was not aware of. His digging for gold, his many wives, etc. I guess I have just put him on a pedestal and this book has deflated my opinion of him. Now I find myself struggling with the whole Joseph Smith story.

How can I build a strong testimony if I doubt the whole cornerstone of the religion? I love most of the teachings, and believe it is good. However, I am not one for blind faith. I think and analyze too much. I am really struggling. Can someone help ease my troubled mind? I want to believe, I just don't know how to quiet my cynical side.

Thanks for listening, I really needed to vent.

[FunkyTown]

Blind Faith isn't necessary, and I understand what you're saying. However, here is what you should do if you're going to read trash:

1) Consider the source the author used. Are these sources reliable? Are there sources that counter or disagree with what he said?

2) What is the author's bias? If the author has a specific goal, they will manipulate facts and tend to ignore facts that counter what he says. For an example of this, see any Michael Moore film.

If you do that, and if you read other contemporaries, you will find that Joseph Smith has been called everything from pure and faultless to the Devil himself. Me, I think he was a good man in a strange situation, doing both good and making mistakes. He was blessed, as a Prophet is wont to be, but he was a man nonetheless.

We were lucky to have him.

[Just_A_Guy]

Too often, we do put Joseph Smith on a pedestal and are then shocked to find that he was made of flesh, not marble.

Read Richard Bushman's Rough Stone Rolling before you do anything rash. The book is a biography of Joseph Smith--perhaps the definitive one--wherein Bushman addresses many of the same topics in a candid-yet-sympathetic manner (Bushman is a stake patriarch, as well as a respected academic specializing in 18th and 19th century New England).

[jolee65]

My mom was a member and not for very long i think it was from 2002 thru 2004, She went to my daughters primary events and liked the church and how we promote family so, she decided to come to sacrament and then before I know it she started going to the ward in her town with her husband.

She started seeing the missionaries and before you know it they were baptised, sealed in the temple and held callings.

This is were it gets sticky, my mom had decided to go out west to visit my sister, shes very opinionated and pushy most of the time so( sister), my mom was like a lamb lead to sladder. lol

She didnt have enought time behind her to discuss scripture like my sister expected her to, and because she couldnt she was crusified literally,being told how stupid she was for falling for a religion she know nothing about. She was made to feel small and stupid.

When she got home she called me over and we were sitting and talking , thats when she told me about what happened at my sisters and that she had thought about it and didnt really understand why she was a member that she didnt really think she ever felt like JS was a prophet. I asked her how she couldnt have and went as far as she did in the church. she didnt know how or understand, I told her the spirit works in ways we dont always undertsand, but that doesnt mean that its not were we're ment to be .Shes now a baptist i think , I dont ask. lol

I have been a member for only 7-8 yrs and even I know that JS was just a man, But he was a prophet and revolater, I didnt really have a personal relationship with JS until I read the first Work and The Glory then I can say I felt a true feeling of love for him, for all the trials he went through, he could have cashed in those plates and feed his family for life, it didnt take a perfect person but a very special person to do what he did for you, me all of us. So read a true story of his life his struggles , mistakes, blessings, and what a big heart he had. you will know when its a real story of JS the spirt will let you know, because your heart will swell.

Let us know when you do.

[georgia2]

the most important thing now is to figure out who wrote the book. Where did you get it? There are so many lies about Joseph Smith and his family you could probably fill a library. In the end, the only words you can totally depend on are the scriptures and the modern talks of our prophets.

[BenRaines]

Books don't teach you what the truth is, the spirit does. The Holy Ghost. Too often people rely on what others say to come to believe. Christ promised in the New Testament that he would send the Comforter to testify of truth.

The Holy Ghost can testify of truth to anyone. If someone of a faith expresses a belief in Jesus Christ the Holy Ghost can testify of that truth to them, they do not have to be LDS.

The Holy Ghost can also testify of truths that you have read but not untruth. The Holy Ghost can not testify of untruth.

After much study, prayer, if you can fasting, then take it to your Heavenly Father in prayer. Make a decision and ask him in prayer if it is right. If you ask with faith your prayer will be answered, in his due time, by the power of the Holy Ghost. By the power of the Holy Ghost you can know the truth of all things.

Don't ask tell what is true. You need to study it out and what you believe to be true and then ask for confirmation. If what you are asking is not true you will not get an answer and will still have a lost feeling.

Ben Raines

[Islander]

My mom was a member and not for very long i think it was from 2002 thru 2004,

This is were it gets sticky, my mom had decided to go out west to visit my sister, shes very opinionated and pushy most of the time so( sister), my mom was like a lamb lead to sladder. lol

She didnt have enought time behind her to discuss scripture like my sister expected her to, and because she couldnt she was crusified literally,being told how stupid she was for falling for a religion she know nothing about. She was made to feel small and stupid.

When she got home she called me over and we were sitting and talking , thats when she told me about what happened at my sisters and that she had thought about it and didnt really understand why she was a member that she didnt really think she ever felt like JS was a prophet. I asked her how she couldnt have and went as far as she did in the church. she didnt know how or understand, I told her the spirit works in ways we dont always undertsand, but that doesnt mean that its not were we're ment to be .Shes now a baptist i think , I dont ask. lol.

It happens to some converts, not just to our church but any other. They know little of the history, they know just about nothing about scripture and their testimony is not solid. They are easily shaken when confronted with controversy or criticism. The parable of the seeds comes to mind.

[Guest ceeboo]

It happens to some converts, not just to our church but any other. They know little of the history, they know just about nothing about scripture and their testimony is not solid. They are easily shaken when confronted with controversy or criticism. The parable of the seeds comes to mind.

Hi Islander, :)

I knew if I stayed on this forum long enough, I would find something I agree with you on:lol:

Indeed my friend, I have seen this " history " shake some in my Catholic faith as well.:)

Peace,

Ceeboo

[Honor]

Even some of the things written by very credible sources can bring doubt. It was a very challenging time in history and there were a LOT of things that did and still need to just be taken on faith.

What I know is that the spirit will not testify of something that isn't true. Even the most difficult of doctrine can be received and we can be at peace with it. BUT there is a difference between doctrine and history. I don't believe that we're asked to pack everything that happened in the history of the church into our personal testimonies. What we DO need to have a testimony of is that Joseph Smith was the prophet of the restoration, not that he was a perfect man. That's not to say that anything we have a hard time accepting was something that made Joseph imperfect, but rather that we do not and cannot fully understand everything that was asked of him and the reasons why. I would hope that while I make plenty of mistakes, even with the way I go about my church callings, that the spirit of my efforts would be what is appreciated from my life even if people don't understand my reasons for some choices I've made.

Joseph Smith isn't the keystone of the church, the Book of Mormon is. A testimony of Joseph Smith is necessary because of his role in the restoration and bringing forth of the Book of Mormon. Gaining a testimony of the Book of Mormon will bring a testimony of Joseph Smith better than a book on his life.

An excellent article from President Hinckley - Four Cornerstones of Faith

Good luck my friend. I know that these challenges with our faith are real. My sister is struggling with the very same things. But please, don't disregard the things of which the spirit has already born witness. I wish you the best in your search for answers and peace with this.

Edited February 2, 2009 by Honor

[Wingnut]

Mormon Enigma: Emma Hale Smith was written by Linda King Newell. This is the extent of what Wikipedia has to say about her:

Linda King Newell (born 1940) is an American historian and author.

Newell co-authored the 1984 book Mormon Enigma: Emma Hale Smith with Valeen Tippetts Avery. During this time (1982–6) she was also editor of the scholarly Mormon periodical Dialogue: A Journal of Mormon Thought with her husband L. Jackson Newell, a professor at the University of Utah.

Newell served as president the John Whitmer Historical Association in 1988, and the Mormon History Association from 1996–1997.

From the Wiki article about the book itself, "The book won the 1984 Best Book Award for interpretive history by the Mormon History Association."

[Honor]

During this time (1982–6) she was also editor of the scholarly Mormon periodical Dialogue: A Journal of Mormon Thought with her husband L. Jackson Newell, a professor at the University of Utah.

Ahhh, that explains it... she's married to a U professor and as we all know, most of them are anti, right?

Kidding, kidding, kidding!

[LDSVALLEY]

I am someone who questions everything, I joined 12 years ago. I questioned Joseph Smith big time. But I also like to use logic so I pondered this. If I was a teenager and I wanted to seem important I might make up a story about God visiting me, especially in that time he was in. But after the first verbal and physical attacks if I made it up I would be smart enough to tell everyone you know what I made it up your right stop hitting me etc.

But he kept saying he was getting revelation from Heavenly Father and kept getting beaten up, ridiculed, driven from home after home, lost children because of it, put in prison many times and in the end killed. Logic tells me no man would be so stupid to keep up a lie like that with the results he got for doing so. Logic then tells me the only reason someone would continue to state it over and over knowing what would happen is that it was true.

And yes I know he was a Prophet and I know he was also a man. I have held callings in the church, I have felt direction from the Lord, yet I am still me with the same imperfections I came to Earth with. So was Brother Joseph.

Never be afraid to question, this is the only religion I ever joined and the only one who never told me what to believe but to take it to the Lord and he would tell me. Having read the comments everyone has given very wise advise, we always need to 1) understand the source of information 2) understand the context of that information. 3) Unless you see someone be translated back to heaven you will never meet a perfect person on this planet until the second coming.

I personally think it makes him a more amazing man and Prophet and makes my testimony stronger to realize and understand he was a man (person) just like me, who gave his very life for the Lord and for me.

Hope this helps

[Islander]

The scriptures show that some prophets were selfish, hard-headed, reticent, undisciplined, disobedient, rebellious, prideful, ambitious, adulterous and some ended up in adolatry.

As stated elsewhere, the message is significantly more important than the messenger.

[Maxel]

From the Wiki article about the book itself, "The book won the 1984 Best Book Award for interpretive history by the Mormon History Association."

The Mormon History Association is a fringe group of LDS and non-LDS scholars who conduct various 'research' into various church histories, programs, etc. Like the Sunstone Symposium and its periodical, the Mormon History Association and Dialogue is fringe scholarship, at best. In other words, if you see an LDS scholar denounce the church as 'false' with some new 'evidence', chances are that scholar has been connected to one of the two.

I would stop reading that book. Joseph Smith was not a perfect man, nor was Emma a perfect woman. They both had their faults and foibles. However, the format in which one is introduced to those faults and failings can seriously affect your testimony.

Give the Lord equal time- go to Him in prayer, explain your frustrations and concerns, and ask for guidance. Over time, you will understand and your fears will evaporate.

If you are interested in learning more about Joseph Smith (after you've overcome your current crisis) I would read Richard Bushman's Joseph Smith: Rough Stone Rolling. It's not a perfect biography, but it is by far the best, most comprehensive one we have available. Plus, Bushman is a true believer, not hanging out on the intellectual fringes of Mormonism.

[lilered]

We are given directions by God in Moroni 10: 3-5 on how to determine for ourselves whether or not the B M is true. I can still remember my own expierence many years ago to put these simple directions to the test. I have since found that this continues to be the one of the best ways to strenthen ones testimony.

[Just_A_Guy]

Like the Sunstone Symposium and its periodical, the Mormon History Association and Dialogue is fringe scholarship, at best. In other words, if you see an LDS scholar denounce the church as 'false' with some new 'evidence', chances are that scholar has been connected to one of the two.

I agree that Sunstone has traditionally been a pretty unproductive refuge for Mormon malcontents, but I wouldn't be quite so dismissive of Dialogue or the MHA. Two other MHA Books of the Year were Dallin H. Oaks' Carthage Conspiracy (1979) and Bushman's Rough Stone Rolling (2006). Bushman's wife is on the board of directors of Dialogue, one of whose founding members was Elder Oaks.

Maxel's advice to "give the Lord equal time" is sound, but you needn't think that all non-LDS-approved sources of history are inherently dangerous to your testimony. You just need to keep your sense of perspective.

[BenRaines]

The scriptures show that some prophets were selfish, hard-headed, reticent, undisciplined, disobedient, rebellious, prideful, ambitious, adulterous and some ended up in adolatry.

As stated elsewhere, the message is significantly more important than the messenger.

And Trustworthy, Loyal, Helpful, Friendly, Courteous, Kind, Obedient, Cheerful, Thrifty, Brave, Clean and Reverent too.

Ben Raines

[Just_A_Guy]

Joseph Smith was a Boy Scout?

[Maxel]

I agree that Sunstone has traditionally been a pretty unproductive refuge for Mormon malcontents, but I wouldn't be quite so dismissive of Dialogue or the MHA. Two other MHA Books of the Year were Dallin H. Oaks' Carthage Conspiracy (1979) and Bushman's Rough Stone Rolling (2006). Bushman's wife is on the board of directors of Dialogue, one of whose founding members was Elder Oaks.

Maxel's advice to "give the Lord equal time" is sound, but you needn't think that all non-LDS-approved sources of history are inherently dangerous to your testimony. You just need to keep your sense of perspective.

Good point. Edited February 3, 2009 by Maxel

[LittleWyvern]

As a general rule when it comes to sources of information, I've always liked to say this to myself:

"The closer the fountain the purer the streams." -I. Forgot

[pebble]

There was a point in my history when I innocently enough started on a quest of sorts. I read alot of not so great books/commentaries etc and unearthed alot of things that really had an impact on what little of a testimony that I did have at the time. I think I had my big toe dangling in the waters of apostasy to be completely honest.(I didn't fall in) It really messed me up for a minute. But a compassionate and kind missionary listened to all my concerns, never once took a stance of defense, but listened...then asked if a 'blessing' would be okay with me. That blessing calmed my inner turmoil...maybe a blessing might be a good place to start to help process whatever it is that has you upset.

Be kind to yourself

~~pebble

[Palerider]

We sometimes try to make things harder than they are. Life is hard enough as it is. The spirit will always bear testimony to you of truth. Yea behold...I will tell you in your mind and in your heard..by the Holy Ghost which shall come upon you and which shall dwell in your heart.

Years ago there was a book out by a member of the church, titled...how to write anto mormon lit. It was good.

I think somtimes we do forget Joseph Smith was a human. There was only one perfect being on earth and that was Jesus Christ.

If you don't already know, Joseph Smith made mistakes and I am sure he knows that he did. If you want a stronger testimony....read the Bible and the Book of Mormon. Read from them each day...you won't find anything better.

[Dove]

Hello, igotskooled,

I've just been reading through the posts, and am curious as to how you're doing? I'm hoping these posts have helped and that you are finding answers.

The only thing I can add is, how easy it is to get caught up in "secular" knowledge, and how difficult it is to remain grounded in "spiritual" knowledge, i.e., the Holy scriptures and standard works....

I believe true religion cannot be "proved" scientifically~It is set up to be proven in our hearts by the Spirit. I believe God has set it up that way, so that only the pure in heart will be able to receive true knowledge of Him.

There are so many books written by man/woman concerning the fallibilities of Joseph Smith. To me, concerning the truthfulness of the gospel, this is not the point. The point is, Do I believe in God? That He loves me enough to talk to me? That he has a direction and purpose for my life? Is the Church of Jesus Christ of LDS His true church, and where He wants me to be? To all of those questions, I give a resounding, YES! I would bet my life on it.

Best of wishes in your search

Dove

Edited February 3, 2009 by Dove

[igotskooled]

[FONT="Comic Sans MS]i can't tell you guys how much this has all helped me. It is so good to have people out there that I can talk to and have some understanding and insights. I have taken each and every post to heart, and I feel so much better. I know now that it is all about prayer, scripture study and pondering. I believe I can overcome this and become a stronger person with a testimony. I quit reading the book and am now just focusing on reading D&C. I also have "Rough stone rolling" on hold from the library.

Thanks to each and every one of you. You have really helped. Have a great day. :)

[Islander]

And Trustworthy, Loyal, Helpful, Friendly, Courteous, Kind, Obedient, Cheerful, Thrifty, Brave, Clean and Reverent too.

Ben Raines

Amen!!

That is why (the good attributes) God chose them, He sees the hearts of men when we only see the outward appearance.