jiminycricket Posted February 7, 2009 Report Share Posted February 7, 2009 Need some input. My YSA ward is having a men's pageant competition with all the usual categories including swimsuit (as well as formal wear, talent and interview). It seems clearly out-of-bounds to me. I posted this comment on the Facebook event page:I hate to be a stick in the mud, and in fact maybe it's ironic that this comment is coming from me, but this activity seems very inappropriate. I worry that endowed men will be needlessly going without their garments for the swimsuit competition... I worry about the feelings this activity will create in participants and spectators... Maybe we should ask ourselves, "Is this activity appealing to our spiritual or our carnal desires? Our love or our lust?"As I posted it, I could just hear people saying that I'm apostate because the bishop passed the idea, and the honest fact is that this does make me seriously question his judgment that he didn't stop this idea in its tracks. I still accept his leadership, I just question whether he invited the Lord in on this particular decision.Thoughts? Am I right? Am I wrong? Is this kind of activity acceptable in the Lord's church -- in a stake of Zion?Jiminy Cricket, aka "the conscience" :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prospectmom Posted February 7, 2009 Report Share Posted February 7, 2009 Wow have you thought of speaking with your Bishop instead of grumbling behind his back.. { not ment to make you mad } You need to understand why he has ok'd it and tal;k to him before you complain to others. Again not trying to rile you up just its so easy for something like this to get away from you.... out of hand... please talk to your Bishop and then come back Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BenRaines Posted February 7, 2009 Report Share Posted February 7, 2009 jiminy, I agree with you. How is this supposed to make other males in the priesthood feel? I would disagree with this event for sisters as well. There are plenty of people who have low self esteem and at church is not a place to attack it. As a Scoutmaster, working with 12-13 year old boys, all that we do must serve a priesthood purpose. All is designed to build on skills, teamwork, leadership, etc. Nothing is done in an attempt to make one boy better than another. Those that are called to lead, serve. Personal opinion, not appropriate. Ben Raines Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prospectmom Posted February 7, 2009 Report Share Posted February 7, 2009 Ben all I was trying to say when we have a problem with our bishop shouldn't we talk to him first instead of complaining to everyone about it.... thats all. I don't think it is a great idea either but do not like it when people complain about the Bishop or someone and don't try to go to the source first.... It was not my intention to offend , just follow proper channels..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Honor Posted February 7, 2009 Report Share Posted February 7, 2009 (edited) I think there is a way to stick to a personal feeling WHILE still supporting our leaders. You don't have to participate in the activity, and you might want to run how you feel by the bishop, but I wouldn't make a stink about it. By not participating in something like that, I think you'll find that your example will speak more to other people who might feel the same, than it would if you just get vocal about it. Just always remember to be polite and respectful. I doubt they've been sitting there going, "How can we get the guys in our ward to take off their shirts and call it a wholesome activity." Some people think things up and simply don't think about how it could be taken by others. I think the important part is that you don't embarrass someone who might have thought it was ok. Compassion and kindness are the key here. I personally would have a reaction similar to yours, but I think what you do with that reaction from here out is the important part. Edited February 7, 2009 by Honor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prospectmom Posted February 7, 2009 Report Share Posted February 7, 2009 Some people think things up and simply don't think about how it could be taken by othersExactly what I mean Honor.. go to the bishop respectfully ask , express your concerns. He can't know he's offended unless he is told , his job didn't come with a crystal ball and really who was in charge of this idea .... suggest taking out the swimsuit portion.... theres lots of positive actions to be taken. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BenRaines Posted February 7, 2009 Report Share Posted February 7, 2009 I agree that the place to take it to is the Bishop. Having been in that position before that is where it should go. Also know that Bishop does not approve all activities. Most delegate certain responsibilities to their counselors. He may have just been told that there was going to be a pageant. Again my personal opinion is only regarding a pageant in my earlier post and I don't agree that it is appropriate at any church function if they are going to be judged or graded. We have talent shows at church and as far as the ones I have been to there is no first or second place. Church activities are not a place for people to succeed or fail at. I believe strongly in competition just not at church. Ben Raines Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just_A_Guy Posted February 7, 2009 Report Share Posted February 7, 2009 I pretty much agree with BenRaines on all counts.In my experience, no one would have even dared suggest having a "pageant" with scantily-clad females prancing around the cultural hall. Just because the "meat" on display is of the masculine rather than the feminine type, really doesn't change anything. The whole thing just seems creepy.But, yes, it'd have been better to talk to the bishop one-on-one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jiminycricket Posted February 7, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 7, 2009 (edited) Prospect, thanks for your thoughts, but you've taken me quite wrong. I'm not grumbling or complaining, I'm getting input trying to find out if I'm overreacting in the first place (realizing that I do have that tendency at times). And I do intend to go to the bishop if, after all of the input (including God's), I still feel the same way about it.Taking out the swimsuit portion would be better than letting the activity go on as is, but there's still the problem of the general spirit of the activity.I have edited my Facebook comment to make it come across a little friendlier. Thanks for bringing that to my attention.I hate to be a stick in the mud, and in fact maybe it's ironic that this comment is coming from me, but this activity seems very inappropriate. I worry that endowed men will be needlessly going without their garments for the swimsuit competition... I worry about the feelings this activity will create in participants and spectators...Let's ask ourselves, "Is this activity appealing to our spiritual or our carnal desires? Our love or our pride and lust? What is the spirit of an activity like this? Does this activity befit the spirit of Zion?"I'm not attacking anyone... I know a lot of folks just haven't thought about it this way. I just think maybe we need to revisit the pass/fail on this activity, and I'd like to know if others agree.Thanks to everyone who has given input thus far :) Edited February 7, 2009 by jiminycricket Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prospectmom Posted February 8, 2009 Report Share Posted February 8, 2009 Never intended to offend and I am glad you did clarify some... This written word is sometimes not taken as intended and boy do I know how that feels..... Your a good person who honestly is questioning something that makes them feel ucomfortable, I get that and understand... I'm glad we all understand and are not letting misunderstandings get out of hand. On my part honestly no offence intended. Thanks for reading all I wrote and not fixating on one thing........ Good luck with this let us know how it goes.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jiminycricket Posted February 8, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 8, 2009 Never intended to offend and I am glad you did clarify some... This written word is sometimes not taken as intended and boy do I know how that feels..... Your a good person who honestly is questioning something that makes them feel ucomfortable, I get that and understand... I'm glad we all understand and are not letting misunderstandings get out of hand. On my part honestly no offence intended. Thanks for reading all I wrote and not fixating on one thing........ Good luck with this let us know how it goes....No offense taken. Will do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mightynancy Posted February 8, 2009 Report Share Posted February 8, 2009 Are you sure you're understanding the activity? I can totally see a "swimsuit competition" where the prize goes to the guy dressed in long plaid bermudas, aloha shirt, black socks, sandals, zinc oxide and a huge sun hat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prospectmom Posted February 8, 2009 Report Share Posted February 8, 2009 Or those old fashioned swimtrunks that are like short onsies. There is a way to reframe this...... Ben does have a point about competition at church but then what about basketball etc... Ben??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Honor Posted February 8, 2009 Report Share Posted February 8, 2009 I think there's a difference between healthy competition, learning to play on a team, encouraging sportsmanship, etc... and a competition based on things of a more superficial nature. It's healthy to learn how to win AND lose gracefully, but a competition based on look or physical attraction doesn't exactly provide a learning experience for those involved. I know you can fight this one to the end, speaking of those with disabilities who cannot participate on the same level as others when it comes to athletics, but I think there is a difference between the two types of competitions. I believe that there needs to be a general sense that everyone is needed and appreciated for each of their abilities. Being awarded with the trophy for being the "Hottie in the Ward" doesn't really do that. I think if this competition can be done in joking and really fun way, it could be a blast - almost where the guys are being goof balls and playing around - not seriously just a GQ competition. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BenRaines Posted February 8, 2009 Report Share Posted February 8, 2009 Basketball is not a one on one comparison of each individuals assets, be they physical, musical or otherwise. Basketball is usually a ward vs ward activity. I played church softball for over 20 years. Umpired it for five. Pretty ugly when you have to throw a member of the Bishopric out of a softball game. Same for basketball. If I had my way, not the one in charge so I don't, there would be no contact sports at church. Volleyball maybe but that would be about it. Ben Raines Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BenRaines Posted February 8, 2009 Report Share Posted February 8, 2009 After reading Honor's post I am seeing a Chippendale's competition similar to the Patrick Swayze vs Chris Farley that was on Saturday Night Live. If you have lived your whole life in a cave and not seen it I am sure you can find it on YouTube. Ben Raines Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jiminycricket Posted February 9, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 9, 2009 As it turns out, you guys are right. The swimsuit competition (which they are now terming a "swimwear" competition) is more of a spoof type of thing, and participants are being instructed to be fully clothed (although we're still talking about swimshorts, and I doubt guys are going to be wearing their garments under those). Anyway, that's their plan, and I guess to them that makes it appropriate. I'm still uncomfortable with it, so I'm not going to go, but yeah... hope they all have fun... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mightynancy Posted February 9, 2009 Report Share Posted February 9, 2009 (edited) Not to pick nits (ummm, ew!), but this is what's in stores as far as swim trunks go.Men | Swimwear at Dillards.comAll but the tallest guys could wear garments with those.In case the link doesn't work, it's the first page when you click on "swimwear" in the men's section of dillards.com:)Macy's wasn't any different. Edited February 9, 2009 by mightynancy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jiminycricket Posted February 9, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 9, 2009 One good knit-pick deserves another... The length of men's swimwear is not in question... The issue is that most swim trunks are lined with nylon mesh "briefs" with elastic bands around each leg opening -- wearing garments under them falls somewhere between uncomfortable and impossible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarginOfError Posted February 9, 2009 Report Share Posted February 9, 2009 One good knit-pick deserves another...While we're knit-picking, nancy had it right....it's actually nitpicking. A nits are lice eggs that cant' be removed by a lice comb, and have to be broken off individually or by chemical methods.Read more at Nitpicking - Wikipedia, the free encyclopediaWhat exactly would picking a knit mean anyway? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rameumptom Posted February 9, 2009 Report Share Posted February 9, 2009 Share your concerns with the bishop, and then leave it in his hands. You can just kindly bow out of that event, and invite others who are also concerned to do something else with you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mightynancy Posted February 9, 2009 Report Share Posted February 9, 2009 I picked a knit this morning, as a matter of fact! I chose the fisherman sweater over the suedecloth jacket, which is a woven. Add my turtleneck, socks, and unmentionables, and boy howdy, have I knitpicked today! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hemidakota Posted February 9, 2009 Report Share Posted February 9, 2009 Need some input. My YSA ward is having a men's pageant competition with all the usual categories including swimsuit (as well as formal wear, talent and interview). It seems clearly out-of-bounds to me. I posted this comment on the Facebook event page:As I posted it, I could just hear people saying that I'm apostate because the bishop passed the idea, and the honest fact is that this does make me seriously question his judgment that he didn't stop this idea in its tracks. I still accept his leadership, I just question whether he invited the Lord in on this particular decision.Thoughts? Am I right? Am I wrong? Is this kind of activity acceptable in the Lord's church -- in a stake of Zion?Jiminy Cricket, aka "the conscience" :)I hope this is will not be done in a church building? However, let your own spiritual maturity make the appropriate answer for what is being given. Something to ask yourself, would it be appropriate to invite both Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ to this activity without feeling guilty? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jiminycricket Posted February 9, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 9, 2009 I hope this is will not be done in a church building? However, let your own spiritual maturity make the appropriate answer for what is being given. Something to ask yourself, would it be appropriate to invite both Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ to this activity without feeling guilty?I'm afraid it is being held in a church building, Hemi. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jiminycricket Posted February 9, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 9, 2009 Nitpicking/Knit-picking... potato/potahto...I didn't say she was wrong. The term nitpicking as it's used in common parlance just never made much sense to me... we use it to refer to inconsequential distinctions, but nits are lice eggs... don't know about you, but I wouldn't shrug those off. I made up "knit-picking" a while back... I picture someone holding a sweater up to their face going over each individual knit plucking tiny fuzzballs off with their fingernails Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.