Connie Posted March 5, 2009 Report Share Posted March 5, 2009 Congratulations! You have passed the Official Test of Christianity. Woohoo!! Party time! Thank you, thank you! Please hold your applause! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maxel Posted March 5, 2009 Report Share Posted March 5, 2009 So we can quit drawing fish in the sand???? I hope so... the OP has been answered, in my opinion. Now we can't help but draw fish that are trying to eat each other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faded Posted March 5, 2009 Report Share Posted March 5, 2009 Not in the least. I believe that born-again Christians are found in many "religious" persuasions. I do feel that some mature spiritually at different rates and finally outgrow a particular setting. Some never reach maturity and remain babes in CHRIST JESUS, and some of this maybe the result of false teachings. I do not feel in the least that anyone MUST attend a particualar church in order to receive any special blessings from GOD. This is what a PERSONAL SAVIOR is all about. CHRIST deals with the individual, his particular issues, and his heart...Okay, so since I can tell you without a doubt that Jesus Christ is my personal Savior, and since the LDS members of this forum can say the same thing ... why the overwhelming sense of urgency Nipper? Why are you so desperately trying to get Latter Day Saints to "fix themselves?" If receiving Jesus Christ as our personal Savior and relying on him alone for salvation is the only thing we needed, according to your beliefs, then every faithful Latter Day Saint is going to be saved in the Kingdom of God. The fact that we continue to believe that good works is essential would -- from the Born Again Christian Perspective -- only amount to "spinning your wheels needlessly." But since Catholics are not damned for the same emphasis on works, then obviously neither are Latter Day Saints. From the Born Again perspective, we may be wrong about some things, but according to what you just said, as long as we rely on Jesus Christ for our Salvation, we're all set. Surely He will forgive us, as we are just another group of imperfect mortal men, right? He forgives you for being imperfect, why not us? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Islander Posted March 5, 2009 Report Share Posted March 5, 2009 Well, don't be surprised... You see, I'm not a professional religious forum guy. I work 8 to 5 with a break or two and a lunch in between. I consider myself an average Born-again Bible believing Fundamentalist Christian. I was saved from the age of 12.Those I worship CHRIST JESUS with, at Easton Bible Church in Hainsport, New Jersey; do not consider the church the authority/standard, nor the good pastor for that matter. The BIBLE is our standard. EVERYTHING is measured against the BIBLE and even the BIBLE is understood within its own light and not with "outside" values, nor personal convictions ---- which maybe very difficult for you to comprehend, given your religious background.I do thank GOD for every opportunity HE has provided for me to share HIS GOSPEL of CHRIST. Salvation is a wonderful gift. I wish for everyone to accept it. When I have an opportunity I sew seeds, but reaping is such a blessing...Nipper:I believe the Jesus is the Christ, the ONLY begotten of the Father, the first fruits of the resurrection. I believe He was crucified and Atoned for my sins and the sins for the world. He rose from the grave on the third day and showed Himself to His friends the disciples and I know He lives. He is my Savior, my Redeemer, my Lord and King. I worship Him and know that my faith is sufficient to receive His grace. I have received a remission of my sins through baptism and the Holy Ghost has witnessed to me that He is my Savior. I know that if I am faithful to the covenants that I have made I will hear His voice and see His face on that bright morning of the resurrection when the trump will sound from the edge of the universe announcing His coming.Am I saved in your construct, Nipper? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleNipper Posted March 5, 2009 Report Share Posted March 5, 2009 Nipper:I believe the Jesus is the Christ, the ONLY begotten of the Father, the first fruits of the resurrection. I believe He was crucified and Atoned for my sins and the sins for the world. He rose from the grave on the third day and showed Himself to His friends the disciples and I know He lives. He is my Savior, my Redeemer, my Lord and King. I worship Him and know that my faith is sufficient to receive His grace. I have received a remission of my sins through baptism and the Holy Ghost has witnessed to me that He is my Savior. I know that if I am faithful to the covenants that I have made I will hear His voice and see His face on that bright morning of the resurrection when the trump will sound from the edge of the universe announcing His coming.Am I saved in your construct, Nipper?The reality is that your salvation is between YOU and GOD. It doesn't matter what I think. I might add that it doesn't matter what your church thinks concerning this either. What does trouble me is the part I have highlighted. Up to that point CHRIST sounds like HE is doing the work; however, what I've highlighted says to me that you seem to be doing the work... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hemidakota Posted March 5, 2009 Report Share Posted March 5, 2009 Nipper:I believe the Jesus is the Christ, the ONLY begotten of the Father, the first fruits of the resurrection. I believe He was crucified and Atoned for my sins and the sins for the world. He rose from the grave on the third day and showed Himself to His friends the disciples and I know He lives. He is my Savior, my Redeemer, my Lord and King. I worship Him and know that my faith is sufficient to receive His grace. I have received a remission of my sins through baptism and the Holy Ghost has witnessed to me that He is my Savior. I know that if I am faithful to the covenants that I have made I will hear His voice and see His face on that bright morning of the resurrection when the trump will sound from the edge of the universe announcing His coming.Am I saved in your construct, Nipper?The question has been answered but whether or not others believe that is the right answer. Now, to what are we saved? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleNipper Posted March 5, 2009 Report Share Posted March 5, 2009 Just curious nipper...only curiosity...why do you keep saying Christ Jesus when His name is Jesus Christ?This is a very interesting question...Actually, Mary & Joseph were not Mr. & Mrs. Christ. JESUS, while he was on the earth was actually known as Jesus of Nazareth. CHRIST is a title which actually means "the anointed." This is what "MESSIAH" means.I tend to use either JESUS CHRIST or CHRIST JESUS or even JESUS the CHRIST. The ANOINTED JESUS, JESUS the ANOINTED ---- are the very same thing, don't you think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hemidakota Posted March 5, 2009 Report Share Posted March 5, 2009 True, Christ is a title but for me, it has a greater meaning what is being given and elevates the person who has this title to GODHOOD. I use the term Jesus THE Christ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleNipper Posted March 5, 2009 Report Share Posted March 5, 2009 True, Christ is a title but for me, it has a greater meaning what is being given and elevates the person who has this title to GODHOOD. I use the term Jesus THE Christ.That is fine ---- not that the GREAT I AM needs elevating. I'm sure HE looks on the heart. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faded Posted March 5, 2009 Report Share Posted March 5, 2009 I know that if I am faithful to the covenants that I have made I will hear His voice and see His face ...The reality is that your salvation is between YOU and GOD. It doesn't matter what I think. I might add that it doesn't matter what your church thinks concerning this either. What does trouble me is the part I have highlighted. Up to that point CHRIST sounds like HE is doing the work; however, what I've highlighted says to me that you seem to be doing the work... Since the vast, vast majority of all Christians are NOT Born Again Christians, I guess you have a lot of people to be worried about. Whether you count us in or out, there are a lot more Christians who believe that they must continue to live their lives faithfully in order to remain in the Covenant with Christ and thereby expect Salvation in the Kingdom of God. The vast majority of Christianity believes that you actually CAN turn your back on God and abandon Him and thereby lose your place in Heaven. If the Born Again Christians are right, then there is a LOT of Christians who are worrying for no reason -- but beyond that, what difference could it possibly it make? There may be some Christian religion that holds that you can work your way to heaven and that at some point in your mortal life you will not be completely dependant on his atoning sacrifice. We are NOT one of those religions. We can't make it without Him and that's what we've always believed. So I repeat, why do you seem to have such an overwhelming sense of urgency on our behalf? According to you, we're in great shape! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Islander Posted March 5, 2009 Report Share Posted March 5, 2009 (edited) The reality is that your salvation is between YOU and GOD. It doesn't matter what I think. I might add that it doesn't matter what your church thinks concerning this either. What does trouble me is the part I have highlighted. Up to that point CHRIST sounds like HE is doing the work; however, what I've highlighted says to me that you seem to be doing the work...I am asking you a simple question, so please do not insult my intelligence and answer my question. I have made my position clear about who Jesus Christ is, and what I believe, whom I worship and why. What you highlighted is what you and I and everybody has to do, is to confess the Christ, to do His will, to be baptized, to be faithful, to obey the commandments, to be charitable, to share the Gospel and the love of Christ to every people. That is the work that we MUST do in order to call ourselves disciples of Christ."But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.For if any be a hearer of the word, and not a doer, he is like unto a man beholding his natural face in a glass:For he beholdeth himself, and goeth his way, and straightway forgetteth what manner of man he was.But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed." James 1:22-25You have ranted about YOUR personal relationship with Christ and how you believe I do not understand Christianity. I just bore my witness of Christ as my personal Savior. In your opinion, is that testimony of Jesus sufficient, according to your construct, to call myself a Christian and to ascertain salvation? Please answer the question YES or NOT. Do not digress into some abstract theological conundrum, as usual. Edited March 6, 2009 by Islander Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleNipper Posted March 6, 2009 Report Share Posted March 6, 2009 (edited) I am asking you a simple question, so please do not insult my intelligence and answer my question. I have made my position clear about who Jesus Christ is, and what I believe, whom I worship and why. What you highlighted is what you and I and everybody has to do, is to confess the Christ, to do His will, to be baptized, to be faithful, to obey the commandments, to be charitable, to share the Gospel and the love of Christ to every people. That is the work that we MUST do in order to call ourselves disciples of Christ."But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.For if any be a hearer of the word, and not a doer, he is like unto a man beholding his natural face in a glass:For he beholdeth himself, and goeth his way, and straightway forgetteth what manner of man he was.But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed." James 1:22-25You have ranted about YOUR personal relationship with Christ and how you believe I do not understand Christianity. I just bore my witness of Christ as my personal Savior. In your opinion, is that testimony of Jesus sufficient, according to your construct, to call myself a Christian and to ascertain salvation? Please answer the question YES or NOT. Do not digress into some abstract theological conundrum, as usual.Your attitude speaks for itself. It certainly isn't "christian." I see no patience, kindness, meekness or long suffering. You wanted my opinion, now what are you going to do with it? Edited March 6, 2009 by LittleNipper Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rameumptom Posted March 6, 2009 Report Share Posted March 6, 2009 I have accepted CHRIST as my PERSONAL SAVIOR (capitals not meant to upset). I'm HIS and HE is mine. Your religion mixes Old Testament legalism with saving grace and claims authority. Sorry, I will not regress into working for savation, nor letting someone else tell me what CHRIST has to tell me. I also have accepted him as my personal savior. But the New Testament teaches authority and grace together. Paul consistently teaches that those who sin, enumerating various sins, and does not repent nor keep God's commandments will stand in God's judgment. Revelation teaches us that the books will be opened, and men will be judged according to their works in the flesh. That is not Old Testament. That is New Testament.Works are necessary as a demonstration of our faith. That is exactly what James teaches in chapter 2, another New Testament evidence that what I'm writing is correct. It isn't just an Old Testament issue. Paul states in the New Testament, that living prophets and apostles are necessary until we all come to a unity of the faith. He teaches in the New Testament that prophets and apostles are the foundation of the Church of Christ. John the Revelator sees two prophets in the last days, in fact. These things have not gone away, as it is the continuing pattern God set up with Adam, continued through Abraham, Moses and the prophets of Israel, and through apostles and prophets after Jesus' death.Paul taught that there are several levels of heaven (see 2 Corinthians 12:1-4). If he knew a man who went to the third heaven, then there are at least 3 heavens. Early Christian literature also insists in multiple heavens. You will be saved in a level of heaven. But to receive the highest level of heaven requires the highest level of faith - which requires following the living prophets and apostles, as Paul and the other apostles and prophets taught.You cannot dismiss the Old Testament, because Paul and Jesus both quoted from it, and believed it. Jesus fulfilled the law of Moses, but not His own laws, which included repenting, being baptized, receiving the Holy Ghost, and keeping the commandments. To deny the importance of obedience in its relationship to faith, is to deny a huge chunk of the Old AND New Testament, at your own peril. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rameumptom Posted March 6, 2009 Report Share Posted March 6, 2009 Your attitude speaks for itself. It certainly isn't "christian." I see no patience, kindness, meekness or long suffering. You wanted my opinion, now what are you going to do with it? Alas, you are exhibiting no patience, kindness, meekness nor long suffering, either. Does this make you unchristian? Or are those attributes even necessary, if we are saved by grace with no works required whatsoever?Is faith shown forth in works, or not? If it is, then LDS are in good standing by showing forth their faith through their works. If works are not necessary, then a simple lip service of "I believe" should suffice, and neither patience nor kindness should be necessary to be a Christian in good standing.So, tell me which way it is going to be? You are insisting you are saved in Christ through no effort of your own, and condemn us for it. Yet, when you perceive us lacking in Christ-like patience and meekness, you determine we are 'unchristian'. Christ applies the rules equally to all people. He is not a respecter of persons. Therefore, either such qualities are important to be a Christian, or they are not. We are consistent in our message, while yours is inconsistent, as I just showed.If confession of Christ is all that matters, then nothing else matters for salvation, and you should not have any issues with Mormons. If works, as a sign of one's faith and faithfulness, are important to God, then we should be able to find that in both the Old and New Testaments as requirements (and we do), and so obedience becomes a natural outflowing of our faith.And if there are many mansions in Father's kingdom (and Jesus said there are), then our level of faithfulness will determine the size and quality of the mansion. We receive a level of heaven fit for our personal level of faith and faithfulness to Christ. "If ye love me keep my commandments" means something to Latter-day Saints. If we have faith in Christ, we will love him, and in so doing will keep his commandments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glennh Posted March 6, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 6, 2009 Please end this thread, I didn't want this to happen when I wrote my question. The accusations and judgements dislayed here are far from what I expected. I am sorry I started this. God bless you all. Glenn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleNipper Posted March 6, 2009 Report Share Posted March 6, 2009 Please end this thread, I didn't want this to happen when I wrote my question. The accusations and judgements dislayed here are far from what I expected. I am sorry I started this. God bless you all.GlennI'm with you. My dad had a term for it, "Damned if you do and damned if you don't." I thought my original answer was very sensitive to his question but what apparently was wanting, was a chance at nailing me to the wall. Even my second answer was not really my judgment call. It was meant to get him to perhaps consider things for himself... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pam Posted March 6, 2009 Report Share Posted March 6, 2009 Thread closed per request of OP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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