New Definition of Tax Cut

[JohnnyRudick]

In today's political society, all the money you earn does not belong to you.

It belongs to the government.

The government allows you to keep what it decides you need to live on.

Those who in government minds make to much money, it decides how much that person really should have made and then confiscates the rest to run the bureaucracy and other government needs.

President Obama is on record as referring to the idea that if you give what was once called a Tax Cut to people who make more (allowing them to keep more of the money they earned), that is now called "transferring money to the wealthy.[speech Feb, 24th, 2009]"

Government then takes the money that is left and transfers to those who in government minds did not make enough money or to those who did not make any money at all and that last move is today called a Tax Cut.

Bro. Rudick

Edited February 25, 2009 by JohnnyRudick
Correct Spelling

[FunkyTown]

Johnny - Welcome to the site and we're glad you're here!

Please do not start another Obama bashing thread. Feel free to join in on any one of the hundreds that have been started. If you feel like bashing Republicans for ridiculous overspending, please join in on those threads as well. We have friendly Democrats, Republicans, Libertarians and even some crazy Foreigners here(Like me!), so feel free to include examples of specific grievances and how you would change them rather than vague accusations and sideswipe attacks.

Some of us feel those types of posts degrade the church for investigators.

[JohnnyRudick]

No, Obama bashing here.

Just pointing out the New definition of and old idea.

Obama is not the subject in the above statement.

Just a quote to give authority to an idea.

Obama is our president and I support his office and wish him the best of luck in preserving our great nation here in the "good ol' USA;-),

Bro. Rudick

Edited February 25, 2009 by JohnnyRudick
After Thought;-)

[bytor2112]

Johnny - Welcome to the site and we're glad you're here!

Please do not start another Obama bashing thread. Feel free to join in on any one of the hundreds that have been started. If you feel like bashing Republicans for ridiculous overspending, please join in on those threads as well. We have friendly Democrats, Republicans, Libertarians and even some crazy Foreigners here(Like me!), so feel free to include examples of specific grievances and how you would change them rather than vague accusations and sideswipe attacks.

Some of us feel those types of posts degrade the church for investigators.

That's a great point and it cuts both ways. I love to talk politics and I am a conservative.....I hate to be labeled a Republican, though I am registered as such.

I have lots of grievances, but they are about our Congress in general, both party's. President Obama won the election and his view of the role of government is much different than mine. I want America to succeed, yet I want him to fail????? Yeah, I know, that makes no sense. But, really, I disagree with everything he is doing thus far. Just for the record, I was not a Bush fan either.

In an effort to be constructive, I will say honestly that, even though I think the "stimulus" bill sucks, my wife's company may actually benefit. She contracts with a company in Victoria, B.C. and they market a product called Snapshot to schools in Florida and lately, because of budget cuts, they're business has declined. Some of the money going to the states will be used to expand Title I programs, thus freeing up money for Snapshot.

I hope that President Obama can reel in spending, but he has to change course pretty quickly and keep Reid and Pelosi in check to do so.

Constructive suggestion: Reform the Tax code. What a mess. Simplify,let' have a flat tax. Let' do away with the progressive and oppressive tax system that we have. If he does that, I will wear a shirt with his picture on it.

[JohnnyRudick]

I have lots of grievances, but they are about our Congress in general, both party's. . .

. . . Just for the record, I was not a Bush fan either.

In an effort to be constructive, I will say honestly that, even though I think the "stimulus" bill sucks, my wife's company may actually benefit. She contracts with a company in Victoria, B.C. and they market a product called Snapshot to schools in Florida and lately, because of budget cuts, they're business has declined. Some of the money going to the states will be used to expand Title I programs, thus freeing up money for Snapshot.

I hope that President Obama can reel in spending, but he has to change course pretty quickly and keep Reid and Pelosi in check to do so.

Constructive suggestion: Reform the Tax code. What a mess. Simplify,let' have a flat tax. Let' do away with the progressive and oppressive tax system that we have. If he does that, I will wear a shirt with his picture on it.

Me too;-)

Bro. Rudick

[lusciouschaos]

The Lord's plan of sharing your increase--tithing--is a flat tax. Sure would simplify and we could all rest thinking we were paying fairly.

[a-train]

I'd like to return to the original constitutional system of government wherein there is no direct federal tax at all whether progressive, flat, or otherwise. Return the power to the states!

While social security is nothing but a Ponzi scheme on its way to bust, the income tax is nothing but invasion of privacy, and the seemingly innumerable taxes we pay every time we buy something whether it is added at the time of sale or included in the price, it is the inflation tax that is the worst. It is a regressive consumption tax. It is deplorable. It is the number one reason for lower standards of living in the United States. END THE FED! We need sound money.

-a-train

Edited February 25, 2009 by a-train

[Traveler]

Every citizen has a right and responsibility to participate in government - and that includes paying taxes. Many think that some citizens should not be considered equal to others in the eyes of the government.

The Traveler

[TheyCallMeMom]

I fully support the fair tax system.

[JohnnyRudick]

I'd like to return to the original constitutional system of government wherein there is no direct federal tax at all whether progressive, flat, or otherwise. Return the power to the states!

While social security is nothing but a Ponzi scheme on its way to bust, the income tax is nothing but invasion of privacy, and the seemingly innumerable taxes we pay every time we buy something whether it is added at the time of sale or included in the price, it is the inflation tax that is the worst. It is a regressive consumption tax. It is deplorable. It is the number one reason for lower standards of living in the United States. END THE FED! We need sound money.

-a-train

In a perfect world that would be the answer. Each state have a version of the "Fair Tax" to run each individual state in the manor that that state wishes to be.

We still have the Government headquartered in DC (which now is using the new congress to get statehood for this city and now may be able to circumvent the Constitution to get it) that needs funds to run interstate relations and protect our borders.

The Fair Tax can be used for that also.

Don't let anyone fool you about this tax.

The overall price will not increase by the amount of the tax as opponents say.

Once it is set in motion all embedded taxes will be eliminated.

This will reduce the price of the products almost to the amount that what ever the Fair Tax may be calculated to be will amount to.

Support the Fair Tax;-)

[a-train]

Every citizen has a right and responsibility to participate in government - and that includes paying taxes. Many think that some citizens should not be considered equal to others in the eyes of the government.

The Traveler

Its disgusting. They think that the poorest Americans should pay the largest percent of their personal income in taxes to fund programs which mainly benefit only the politically connected.

-a-train

Edited February 26, 2009 by a-train

[a-train]

In a perfect world that would be the answer. Each state have a version of the "Fair Tax" to run each individual state in the manor that that state wishes to be.

We still have the Government headquartered in DC (which now is using the new congress to get statehood for this city and now may be able to circumvent the Constitution to get it) that needs funds to run interstate relations and protect our borders.

The Fair Tax can be used for that also.

Don't let anyone fool you about this tax.

The overall price will not increase by the amount of the tax as opponents say.

Once it is set in motion all embedded taxes will be eliminated.

This will reduce the price of the products almost to the amount that what ever the Fair Tax may be calculated to be will amount to.

Support the Fair Tax;-)

The fair tax is just another federal bureaucracy just as bad as the rest. What does Uncle Sam need all this money for? Unjust and unconstitutional wars, programs which deprive Americans of their rights and their privacy while claiming to protect them, economic meddling which results only in major economic problems, the aggrandizement of politically connected cronies, the giving of aid to foreign countries in the name of what they call 'diplomacy', the intervention in foreign internal affairs which brings about hostility and actually undermines our national security, the building and maintainence of 700 bases and a world police force complete with unconstitutional prison camps, sheesh, what else can they possibly think of?

We need to rein in the spending and get back to the constitution before we wind up in total collapse like the Soviet Union, a possibility that could likely already be underway.

I'll admit that the fair tax is a much more just tax than much of what we have in place, but it would solve nothing if our government continues its runaway spending spree which if brought to an end would make such a fair tax unnecessary anyway.

-a-train

[JohnnyRudick]

The fair tax is just another federal bureaucracy just as bad as the rest. What does Uncle Sam need all this money for? . . .

I'll admit that the fair tax is a much more just tax than much of what we have in place, but it would solve nothing if our government continues its runaway spending spree which if brought to an end would make such a fair tax unnecessary anyway.

-a-train

Agreed.

Once the Fair Tax is in place every American will know what is spent and how much is coming out of their pocket.

They then will be motivated to force government to cut wasteful spending and growing bureaucracies.

We have to turn this ship around.

We have come to the place where in the eyes of many in government we own nothing.

Not even our God given rights.

We work and work and not even the fruits of our labors is considered ours.

When the government allows you to keep more of the fruit of your labors, it is considered - "spending".

Now "what's up with that?"

Ether 8:17 And it was the daughter of Jared who put it into his

heart to search up these things of old; and Jared put it into the

heart of Akish; wherefore, Akish administered it unto his kindred

and friends, leading them away by fair promises to do whatsoever

thing he desired.

Ether 8:18 And it came to pass that they formed a secret

combination, even as they of old; which combination is most

abominable and wicked above all, in the sight of God;

Ether 8:19 For the Lord worketh not in secret combinations,

neither doth he will that man should shed blood, but in all

things hath forbidden it, from the beginning of man.

Ether 8:20 And now I, Moroni, do not write the manner of their

oaths and combinations, for it hath been made known unto me that

they are had among all people, and they are had among the

Lamanites.

Ether 8:21 And they have caused the destruction of this people of

whom I am now speaking, and also the destruction of the people of

Nephi.

Ether 8:22 And whatsoever nation shall uphold such secret

combinations, to get power and gain, until they shall spread over

the nation, behold, they shall be destroyed; for the Lord will

not suffer that the blood of his saints, which shall be shed by

them, shall always cry unto him from the ground for vengeance

upon them and yet he avenge them not.

Ether 8:23 Wherefore, O ye Gentiles, it is wisdom in God that

these things should be shown unto you, that thereby ye may repent

of your sins, and suffer not that these murderous combinations

shall get above you, which are built up to get power and gain--

and the work, yea, even the work of destruction come upon you,

yea, even the sword of the justice of the Eternal God shall fall

upon you, to your overthrow and destruction if ye shall suffer

these things to be.

Ether 8:24 Wherefore, the Lord commandeth you, when ye shall see

these things come among you that ye shall awake to a sense of

your awful situation, because of this secret combination which

shall be among you; or wo be unto it, because of the blood of

them who have been slain; for they cry from the dust for

vengeance upon it, and also upon those who built it up.

Ether 8:25 For it cometh to pass that whoso buildeth it up

seeketh to overthrow the freedom of all lands, nations, and

countries; and it bringeth to pass the destruction of all people,

for it is built up by the devil, who is the father of all lies;

even that same liar who beguiled our first parents, yea, even

that same liar who hath caused man to commit murder from the

beginning; who hath hardened the hearts of men that they have

murdered the prophets, and stoned them, and cast them out from

the beginning.

Ether 8:26 Wherefore, I, Moroni, am commanded to write these

things that evil may be done away, and that the time may come

that Satan may have no power upon the hearts of the children of

men, but that they may be persuaded to do good continually, that

they may come unto the fountain of all righteousness and be

saved.

Bro. Rudick

[jadams_4040]

In today's political society, all the money you earn does not belong to you.

It belongs to the government.

The government allows you to keep what it decides you need to live on.

Those who in government minds make to much money, it decides how much that person really should have made and then confiscates the rest to run the bureaucracy and other government needs.

President Obama is on record as referring to the idea that if you give what was once called a Tax Cut to people who make more (allowing them to keep more of the money they earned), that is now called "transferring money to the wealthy.[speech Feb, 24th, 2009]"

Government then takes the money that is left and transfers to those who in government minds did not make enough money or to those who did not make any money at all and that last move is today called a Tax Cut.

Bro. Rudick

Uhh i think its called trying to keep this country from going into a depression; this is a very real and scary scenario that is only about a millimeter away from happening thanks to bushs tax cuts to the corporations; we need to get over this crazy idea that tax cuts and more money to the wealthy helps create jobs, we did it for 8 very long and sad years, it does not work; lets do something else; tax cuts to the wealthy do not work; this country is in very serious trouble; lets quit pointing fingers and hope to god this presidents ideas will have an affect; the time is waaayyy beyond being political about this; we are in serious trouble, very,very serious trouble.

[bytor2112]

Uhh i think its called trying to keep this country from going into a depression; this is a very real and scary scenario that is only about a millimeter away from happening thanks to bushs tax cuts to the corporations; we need to get over this crazy idea that tax cuts and more money to the wealthy helps create jobs, we did it for 8 very long and sad years, it does not work; lets do something else; tax cuts to the wealthy do not work; this country is in very serious trouble; lets quit pointing fingers and hope to god this presidents ideas will have an affect; the time is waaayyy beyond being political about this; we are in serious trouble, very,very serious trouble.

??????Do you understand economics at all or are you familiar with the facts at all????

The biggest percentage tax cut—about 17.6 percent—went to taxpayers in the second-lowest quintile, that is to taxpayers with below-average incomes. After that, the size of the tax cut falls off as you move from the lower middle to the middle middle (12.6 percent) to the upper middle class (9.9 percent). It rises again slightly for the top quintile, but only to a little over 11 percent.

Bush taxcut highlights....courtesy of the CATO Institute:

* A reduction of individual income tax rates from 15, 28, 31, 36, and 39.6 percent to 10, 15, 25, 28, 33, and 35 percent;

* An increase in the child tax credit from $500 to $1,000;

* A phased-in reduction in estate taxes, and a one-year repeal in 2010;

* A big expansion of tax-favored retirement savings plans.

[JohnnyRudick]

Uhh i think its called trying to keep this country from going into a depression; this is a very real and scary scenario that is only about a millimeter away from happening thanks to bushs tax cuts to the corporations; . . . lets quit pointing fingers and hope to god this presidents ideas will have an affect; the time is waaayyy beyond being political about this; we are in serious trouble, very,very serious trouble.

No fingers are pointed here.

Not a fan of Bush either by the way.

He did keep the nation afloat through some very difficult and interesting times though.

But he spent wayyy over what he needed to and expanded government way beyond what I believe was necessary to do the job.

Yet, I don't want to pick on any one person here.

Just want to point out that it was the congress that demanded that easy loans be made to those who could least afford to pay the loans back. Fanny and Freddy for instance.

When some wanted to investigate them back a few years ago, Nancy, Barny, and company insisted they were in great shape and had no need of investigation.

It was the Congress of late, under George and Nancy that plunged us into oblivion.

I expected it from Nancy and company but was very, very upset at George.

Should not have been too surprised though.

I hate to beat up on people but like you I have to vent a little. "thanks to bushs tax cuts to the corporations."

Yeah, he did encourage the senate Republicans to vote for that thing as did McCain.

Sheesh;-(

Thanks to the brave few Republicans who stood against it.

Yet because the other side ruled the Congress there was no way it could fail yet they wanted to have a few Republicans to have their fingerprints on it.

And they did.

Many of the most prominent.

I prayed that when McCain said he was quitting for the moment and going to Washington, he was going to tell his fellow Republicans to vote against it even though it had no chance of not getting through.

Yet, he asked his fellow Republicans to vote for it:-(

Now government is on a feeding frenzy that I see nowhere it will end.

How will we pay for it?

There is not enough of the "filthy rich" in the world to pay for it.

We are begging China to help us out again.

If they refuse do we print our way out?

That will tax the poor into oblivion!

"Is there no man in Israel?"

This is a thread not for bashing people.

Just informing and trading ideas of What is Good for America.

Who owns your money?

Do you have any money?

What is money?

Getting back to the Constitution.

Etc.

Edited February 26, 2009 by JohnnyRudick
After thought;-)

[FunkyTown]

Thanks, everyone. :) I think this is a much more constructive thread than I was worried it would be when it started.

As an aside, however, I'd like to mention the idea that removing hidden taxes will somehow lower prices.

That simply isn't true. Canada tried the same thing with the GST. Many hidden taxes were removed with an above board flat sales tax.

Prices didn't fall. They stayed the same. The difference was that the removal of the hidden taxes resulted in companies making more money and the inclusion of the GST resulted in net less money for people to spend. Once a price hits a plateau, people expect to pay it. Companies rely upon this. If people, seeing the prices didn't fall, simply refused to purchase, we would be in a similar situation to what we have now.

[miztrniceguy]

why can't we just pay 10% tax on anything we buy and eliminate the irs? The salaries alone would save the country tons of money, not to mention printing costs. And it would be environmentally friendly, so the treehuggers would be happy.

[Hemidakota]

In today's political society, all the money you earn does not belong to you.

It belongs to the government.

The government allows you to keep what it decides you need to live on.

Those who in government minds make to much money, it decides how much that person really should have made and then confiscates the rest to run the bureaucracy and other government needs.

President Obama is on record as referring to the idea that if you give what was once called a Tax Cut to people who make more (allowing them to keep more of the money they earned), that is now called "transferring money to the wealthy.[speech Feb, 24th, 2009]"

Government then takes the money that is left and transfers to those who in government minds did not make enough money or to those who did not make any money at all and that last move is today called a Tax Cut.

Bro. Rudick

Too bad I was not standing there when he called to carpet two Senators who refuse to sign his destructive stimulus package without reading it - calling them un-American; I would have a few choice words for him directly and openly.

My money belongs to the Lord. That is all it. None of it belongs to the government. I chose to help to maintain our freedom and the welfare of others in this land in reasons. When we begin to see that our own government steps beyond the bounds which was given by the founding fathers, then it is time for a new government.

Edited February 26, 2009 by Hemidakota

[hordak]

. What does Uncle Sam need all this money for?

-a-train

military, Health care, Debt interest, income security,education, VA benefits, Nutrition, housing, environment and job training.

So here's what we do. Lower taxes and reduce the size of the military, this puts more people out of work into the Civilian sector where jobs are already scarce.Vet gets sick, and can't work, can't get better because tax cuts affected VA benefits, applies for medicare but this system is limited now as well, tries to feed family but WIC is gone and free school lunches as well. Can't afford a place to live because he unemployed or under employed and housing programs have been cut also. Decides he needs to go to school the becomes better educated but now the FASFA is gone and he can't afford it. Becomes a "mountain man" to feed his family but without tax dollars helping the environments all the wild fish and game is unhealthy due to pollution.

Yes our government waste tax dollars, but it also goes to help alot of people. The base we are station at becomes the 4th largest city in OH Between 6 am and 5pm Monday- Friday because of the amount of employees that work here. No taxes no base, no base no government employees, no government employees no one to shop at the local businesses.

[hordak]

why can't we just pay 10% tax on anything we buy and eliminate the irs? The salaries alone would save the country tons of money, not to mention printing costs. And it would be environmentally friendly, so the treehuggers would be happy.

I think it is kind of a double edged sword. If income tax is gone and we just tax new stuff less people would consume new stuff. Could be good for the environment but bad for the employees in retail sector.

[Hemidakota]

The good o' VAT Tax.

[a-train]

I think it is kind of a double edged sword. If income tax is gone and we just tax new stuff less people would consume new stuff. Could be good for the environment but bad for the employees in retail sector.

Now you are thinking like a central planner.

-a-train

[hordak]

Now you are thinking like a central planner.

-a-train

No i just think it would severely affect a consumer driven economy. If it had been implemented from the beginning and industry could have grow accordingly it would have been great but i think it is to late.

Case in point Florida and Nevada have no state tax. There economy's are based on tourism so the sales of goods produced in their states really has little effect. Michigan on the other hand is tied extensively to the auto industry. Anytime GM gets into a bind the whole state feels it. I believe most people in the US are connected to the sale of goods. A law that could lower this consumption would affect a lot of people. From mom and pop store owners to Super walmart baggers.

[JohnnyRudick]

military, Health care, Debt interest, income security,education, VA benefits, Nutrition, housing, environment and job training.

So here's what we do. Lower taxes and reduce the size of the military, this puts more people out of work into the Civilian sector where jobs are already scarce. . .

But remember.

This is done gradually by natural means.

Under the Fair Tax,

People would have all their paycheck.

Spending would at first increase because of this.

As people begin to see where their taxes are going they work to cut the budget.

Bro. Rudick.