Spouse cheated--need to talk to someone who understands!!!

[Faded]

MORE HOMEWORK:

Friendship Skill #1: Knowing Your Partner’s Internal World

My Emotional World

The more you know about each other's inner world, the more profound and rewarding your relationship will be. This questionnaire is designed both to guide you through some self-exploration and to help you share this exploration with your partner. Work on this exercise even if you and your spouse consider yourselves open books. There's always more to know about each other. Life changes us, so neither of you may be the same person who spoke those wedding vows five, ten or fifty years ago.

Many of the questions in this exercise are powerful. Please make sure you have enough time and privacy to do them justice. In fact, it may be best to reserve this exercise for an uninterrupted stretch when you do not have work to do, deadlines to meet, phone calls to answer, or children (or anybody else) to look after.

Answer the questions as candidly as you can. You don't have to answer every aspect of each question - just respond to the parts that are relevant to your life. Write your answers in your private journal or notebook. If writing so much is hard, you can do it in outline form - but the process of writing this down is important to the success of the exercise.

1. How did your family express the following when you were a child?

o Anger

o Sadness

o Fear

o Affection

o Interest in one another

2. During your childhood, did your family have to cope with a particular emotional problem, such as aggression between parents, a depressed parent, or a parent who was somewhat emotionally wounded? What implications does this have for your marriage and your other close relationships (friendships, relationships with your parents, your siblings, your children)?

3. What is your own philosophy about expressing feelings, particularly sadness, anger, fear, pride, and love? Are any of these difficult for you to express or to see expressed by your spouse? What is the basis of your perspective on this?

4. What differences exist between you and your spouse in the area of expressing emotion? What is behind these differences? What are the implications of these differences for you?

[Cadley]

Thanks, Faded. I've printed out the exercizes, and shown them to my husband.

You're right about the negativity. When our bishop counseled us a year ago, that was one of the things he said to work on.

We've been getting marriage counseling from the stake president, but I told my husband this morning that I want to go to the professional counselor. I had a friend who saw the church counselor in our area, and she said she's wonderful, and helped her a lot individually. I think we need the individual counseling as much as we need the couple counseling.

[lilered]

Cadley, it seems to me that the first step is too get get your own house in order. Thus, make sure you are caring for yourself both phyicially and mentally. Then, your children, and finally your marriage. Your husband has to take the initiative for his own well-being. You certaintly can support him in his effort but he has to take the necessary steps. If he is unwilling to go to counseling etc., then go your self. I still believe that the your husband needs a wake up call to get him on the path of repentance. I am puzzled that your Bishop/Stake President haven't taken some type of church dicipline towards your husband in light of the circumstances.

Edited March 18, 2009 by lilered

[Cadley]

Lilired--so aptly put. One of the things my husband complained about when we finally got talking was that I focus so hard on the house and the kids that he feels like I've lost myself.

I took the day off work today and went to the temple. Took a wrong turn on the way there and missed my session, so did initiatory instead. I think the wrong turn was a blessing. The words in the initiatory ordinance were exactly what I needed to hear. Then I went to the Celestial room to pray and think. I thought about all the anguish I've been going through, and realized that I could relieve myself of a great deal of that by forgiving my husband and the OW. I knew it was the Christlike thing to do, but a huge part of me is holding back because I know neither of them deserve it. Today, the thought came into my head that the forgiveness is for me, not for them. I'd heard that before, of course, but today it really sunk in. If I want the hurt to go away, first I have to let go of it.

I still can't see ever trusting my husband, or being close to him again, but apparently the Lord can see it, so I'm putting my trust in Him.

[InnerGold]

Cadley, I am so sorry you are going through this. It is amazing to think that your pain is miniscule to what our Saviour went through. I know if you continue going to the temple, you will receive the guidance you need. If I may issue you a challenge, commit to going to the temple once a week. Do sealings, initiatory and sessions, rotate through them. Each portion has a power and blessings all their own.

Your comments are almost the exact same from another spouse we had in a group session. She did not know how she could ever trust her husband again. Called him every name in the book except for his real name. Wanted to see him go through pain as she has. She wanted to castrate him, etc. One of the ladies in the group said, " I know your feeling because I wanted to do the same." She did some education from the InnerGold program and gained a greater understanding of what she could do for herself. She learned what she could control and how to control and actually how to love. I am not saying everything was rosy after that but she only wanted to hurt him a little instead of the previous description. Their marriage has improved. They have been going to counseling because they have to unlearn all of their bad habits.

I have to head to a meeting. I will write more concerning this later. Please read a letter from one of our spouses.

[JustBeachy09]

Something that takes a long time for us to understands that when a spouse cheats either emotionally, physically, or both that yes it was a cause of something deeper. You have a great understanding on that, but also that when he ventured off it was because of his own inadequacy issues. For whatever reason, since somewhere deep inside he felt that you were either too good for him, too devout, or whatever, he did go off and seek solace with someone with no class and morals. Often times we ask ourselves why they settled, just know that it isn't because of you. If you are doing the best that you can, praying, going to temple and all that, and he won't meet you anywhere near halfway then don't be the punching bag to his emotional abuse (and not meeting you halfway when you are trying so hard is emotional abuse), because now he has the capacity to make you doubt yourself. Pray, meditate, and sink guidance. If you can jump ship, I hope you do.

[lilered]

I would like to discuss the forgiveness issue a bit.

FWIW: In my view, when a spouse committs adultry, it usually occurrs as the result of a decaying marriage and/or one or both gradually falling away from righteous living. In other words, it takes some time for it to occurr. Having noticed that, it seem intuitive to me that if the marriage is to be eventually be saved, then one or both have to be willing to submit to the repentance process. In any event, both have to get their personal house back on the path of righteous living which too takes time.

If for example, the offender willing submits to the process and may even be excommunicated for their actions, they lose the companship of the Holy Ghost. If this ocurrs, they are left to their own to the temptings of Satan and the world. If they are able to humble themselves, and make the choice to repent and follow the steps to redeem themselves, get rebaptized, and regain their church membership, blessings, etc.. they become a changed person.

That entire process is a refining process. I have noted many a trouble marriage that was healed as a result of this process.

If however, the offender does not wish to subject themselves to the repentance process, but instead continue to live their life by dishonoring the covenants they once took are doomed for failure as is the marriage but it is by their on hand and choice.

I have also noticed that the spouse that even though a divorce may ocurr, if they get their house back in order and get back into righteous living and obediance to Gods commandments, they are blessed and happiness and joy return to them.

[foreverafter]

If however, the offender does not wish to subject themselves to the repentance process, but instead continue to live their life by dishonoring the covenants they once took are doomed for failure as is the marriage but it is by their on hand and choice.

It should be understood that even if an adulterous or abusive spouse refuses to repent, that does not mean the marriage is over. Most wives throughout history have had husbands who have been abusive or adulterous, either in mind, heart or body, but most of them stayed with their husbands til the end of their life & so, if the wife was righteous, she will have her husband in heaven after the husband repents in Spirit Prison, so that her suffering all those years by staying with him wasn't in vain.

If the marriage was over when our spouse commits sin, than the majority of marriages better just divorce today because at least one or both of most spouses are breaking their covenants in some serious way.

The Prophets plead with us to "never give up" on a adulterous, abusive or abandoning spouse, cause they know that one spouse can save the marriage, even if it takes til the next life to do it. All spouses must eventually repent. Those spouses who keep their covenants even when they are justified to leave, will recieve the highest blessings of heaven.

Edited March 23, 2009 by foreverafter

[Cadley]

The Prophets plead with us to "never give up" on a adulterous, abusive or abandoning spouse, cause they know that one spouse can save the marriage, even if it takes til the next life to do it. All spouses must eventually repent. Those spouses who keep their covenants even when they are justified to leave, will recieve the highest blessings of heaven.

Foreverafter--do you have some references for this? Some of the things you've said in this and other posts don't coincide with what I've been taught.

I count myself lucky, if such a word can be used, to have a husband who confessed what he had done, and has shown genuine interest in mending the damage he has done. When I first found out about the affair, I wanted a divorce. The real pain wasn't that he'd been with someone else, but that he'd essentially rejected me. I stayed with him because that was what the Lord instructed me to do.

The counseling we've received has helped us both to see how and why the other felt unloved and unwanted. We've had several good conversations. I think I previously rated my marriage at a 12 out of 100. We're not up to about a 15. So, still a long way to go, but I see progress.

I went to the temple and did initiatory work last week. It had been a long time since I had participated in that ordinance, and I had forgotten how empowering the words are. The thought ran through my mind over and over that I had already been blessed with everything I needed to get me through this trial.

I had been considering the matter of forgiveness for some time---what that means, and how to do it, and although I've heard this hundreds of times, it finally sunk in: forgiveness is for me, not for my husband and OW. I picked up a copy of "the miracle of forgiveness," and that has also been a great help to me.

[foreverafter]

Foreverafter--do you have some references for this? Some of the things you've said in this and other posts don't coincide with what I've been taught.

Cadley, I have lots of references, which part were you wondering about? I would just post the Prophet's quotes here instead of paraphrasing but I'm not sure I can because of copyright laws. But I can give references. Also, when you say "don't coincide with what I've been taught", who do you mean? Taught by whom? You will only find these things in the teachings of the Prophets. It's all there.

For the "Never give up on a wicked spouse"idea, see Elder Scott, CR Apr. 1988. Pres. Hinckley also asked us to never give up on our loved ones & he said that after he quoted Joseph Smith's famous quote about how our sealings & personal righteousness can eventually save our loved ones who go astray. (See Pres. Hinckley's talk, Jordon Utah South Reg. Conf., Mar. 2, 1997.)

Our sealings & sacrifices are more powerful to save then we can ever imagine. It's so important to follow what we are told in the temple & never break our marriage covenants, ever.

Edited March 24, 2009 by foreverafter

[lilered]

[/Quote}

It should be understood that even if an adulterous or abusive spouse refuses to repent, that does not mean the marriage is over. Most wives throughout history have had husbands who have been abusive or adulterous, either in mind, heart or body, but most of them stayed with their husbands til the end of their life & so, if the wife was righteous, she will have her husband in heaven after the husband repents in Spirit Prison, so that her suffering all those years by staying with him wasn't in vain.

If the marriage was over when our spouse commits sin, than the majority of marriages better just divorce today because at least one or both of most spouses are breaking their covenants in some serious way.

The Prophets plead with us to "never give up" on a adulterous, abusive or abandoning spouse, cause they know that one spouse can save the marriage, even if it takes til the next life to do it. All spouses must eventually repent. Those spouses who keep their covenants even when they are justified to leave, will recieve the highest blessings of heaven.

Foreverafter - Let's back the train up a bit. If I understand what you are indicating in the above is that no matter what, the affected spouse should stay in a bad marriage.

I don't believe that for a minute. I do believe that every effort possible should be made to heal the marriage, however if a spouse does not desire to repent and continues on a path of damnation, I find it very difficult for the affected spouse and the children to continue to be abused etc.. and suffer. I have also witnessed excommunications because of such things. Eventually, they either return by going through the repentance process or make the decision that want to continue to follow Satan. Those that want to continue to follow Satan, usually end up doing by themselves and their spouse opted out of the marriage with the children and went on to remarry and even have a happy life.

I fully understand the Church Leaders wisdon and counsel against divorce etc. but I also do not believe that they would continue to insist that a spouse continue to live with someone who abuses the family and unwilling to repent. I welcome you to furnish quotes that would indicate otherwise.

Edited March 24, 2009 by lilered

[prospectmom]

Ok quick research on LDS.org I found tons of talks in the Ensign archives on the subject marriage and adultry and divorce... Here are two

Ensign May 2007

Elder Dallin Oaks

Divorce

Ensign May 1991

President Gordon B. Hinkley

What God has joined together

There are many talks on the subject

[foreverafter]

lilered,

I understand what you are saying, & I in no way mean for a woman to not protect herself & her children from an abusive husband as much as she possibly can. It is a woman's responsibility to protect herself & her children from all abuse. That may even mean she needs to divorce for legal protection. But if her husband is that abusive that she must divorce then she must 1st be sure she will get full custody of the children & he won't get UNsupervised visitation. For a caring mother could not let her children be alone with a man she, as an adult, was not safe with.

But even with separation & divorce for safety reasons, that does not mean the marriage is over. Even after divorce HF still considers the couple still 100% completely married, if the divorce was for safety. Only when the righteous spouse moves on to date & find someone new is the marriage over because now BOTH have broken their covenants to remain faithful. It takes BOTH to break the covenant for the marriage to be really over. And in rare instances the Prophets say, an innocent spouse may be justified to do that & move on. But that is not what the Prophets want us to do.

The Prophets would rather we never give up on our wicked spouse & keep our marriage covenants & love & serve them & help them repent someday, if even from a safe distance. That is what the ideal is. Yes, it requires alot of sacrifice & may be a long lonely life until the wicked spouse repents. But, you see, marriage is not about our happiness but about saving our spouse & their happiness & welfare must come before ours. Our children's welfare also must always come before our needs & happiness, & children want their original family to be forever, that is the best thing for our children. So that is what parents, or at least one spouse, should wait for & pray for & make happen.

All wicked spouses must eventually repent, in this life or the next. And yes, most are excommunicated whether ever done officially or not, for that is the penalty for any form of unrepentant abuse & adultery or abandonment. But our faithfulness to our spouse, can eventually save our spouse & bring them to us in the Cel. Kingdom & be a forever family with us, after they repent & pay for their sins in Spirit Prison. They will be a much different & grateful humble person then, ready to make everything all up to the wife & children. The sealing power & our love & faithfulness is that strong, to allow us to be like the Prodical Son's Father who welcomed his son back into the family, even after he had spent his inheritance (exaltation). Righteous spouses may not be able to get Exaltation for their spouse, but they can get them to the Cel. Kingdom with the rest of the family. Joseph Smith, Brigham Young & Joseph Fielding Smith all taught this, among other Prophets.

So this is why the Prophets say never give up on a spouse, because if we truly are righteous & thus have Christ-like Unconditional True Love for our spouse, no matter what they do, the kind that never ends & never gives up, it can save them & our whole family someday. This is women's, especially, grand mission on this earth, to bring back at least one of H.F.'s sons to his Cel. Kingdom, who could never have made it or earned it on his own. (For most husband's probably won't history shows.) And sometimes it's the other way around. But usually a wife is man's only hope. That's why being a "Helpmeet" is our most vital role. And that is what Pres. Hincley said about women, "Women are the one hope in a world marching towards self destruction." (Especially for it's men.) I have many many Prophets quotes about all this, but I don't think it's allowed to post their quotes on the internet.

Edited March 25, 2009 by foreverafter

[Cadley]

foreverafter--thank you for the Elder Scott reference. I've printed the talk, and it has some great advice and comforting words. I couldn't find a copy of the Hinckley talk online.

You had somewhere referenced the idea of repentance in the afterlife. What I have been taught at church, and what I understand from the scriptures is that if we knowingly reject Christ, or knowingly sin in this life, and are not on the path of repentance when we die, we will not have the opportunity to repent in the next life. Well, it's more complicated than that, but basically, you are the same person when you die, and if you didn't want to be a loving, faithful person in this life, you're not going to want it in the next life, either.

I have a friend whose husband cheated on her, and basically walked out on her and their kids to live with his girlfriend. She tried everything to get him back. She was given the same advice I was given--go to the temple and ask the Lord what to do. She said she knew the minute she walked into the temple that she was supposed to divorce him. It was very difficult for her, but she has been blessed in amazing ways. I also have a friend who suffered terrible abuse at the hands of an unrighteous father. A divorce was really the only option for her safety, and the safety of her mother and other siblings.

I'm sure there are women out there much stronger than I, who could tolerate the degradation of living with an unfaithful spouse for the duration of their lives. I could not. It's the hardest thing I've ever endured, even with a husband who wants to repent and reconcile.

There's also the protection of the children to consider. No matter what you tell your children, they will emulate your behavior more than your words. To stay in an abusive relationship, or tolerate repeated affairs is to teach your children that abuse and adultery are acceptable.

In my case, because OW is pregnant, there will (sadly) come a time when my children will learn of their father's unfaithfulness. I hope and pray that when they are at that point, my husband will be in good standing with the church, we will have fully reconciled, and that they will learn that there is healing and repentance even after the worst sins, but staying on the path of righteousness, and being faithful and loving toward your spouse is far better than repenting. I hope they learn faith, trust in the Lord, and true forgiveness, and I hope they learn it not from lessons at church or in Family Home Evening, but from the example my husband and I set to them.

[Faded]

Okay, so moving away from the hypothetical and back to the reality -- from my understanding, Cadley's husband is neither abusive nor continuing to cheat on her.

How are things progressing? What is working? What isn't working?

One goal that both of you should have in mind is that ultimately, your priorities in should look like this:

1.) God

2.) Spouse

3.) Children

4.) Church

5.) Career (if you work)

Everything should fall in order like that. If you are staying together, then eventually, your husband should be the second only to God in your life. You should be second only to God in his life. There should be no question in the mind of either of you that they are the top priority after God alone. That is one of the things the two of you should be working towards. Creating that outlook in light of adultery can be difficult, but I can tell you first hand that it can be done.

[Hemidakota]

I have a friend whose husband cheated on her, and basically walked out on her and their kids to live with his girlfriend. She tried everything to get him back. She was given the same advice I was given--go to the temple and ask the Lord what to do. She said she knew the minute she walked into the temple that she was supposed to divorce him. It was very difficult for her, but she has been blessed in amazing ways. I also have a friend who suffered terrible abuse at the hands of an unrighteous father. A divorce was really the only option for her safety, and the safety of her mother and other siblings.

.

Unfortunately, we hope for the positive but must rely on the Lord for the appropriate answer.

[InnerGold]

Thank you faded for bringing this back to the basics. We must not forget about the children divorce, infidelity, etc. affects our children more than we realize. I am amazed at what children really do understand and pick up. Make sure to protect your children.

[Cadley]

Faded--I love your posts. They are so direct, and helpful.

I took note of your priority lists. Prior to the affair, this is how I felt my priorities went:

1. kids

2. God

3. Housework

4. Career

5. Church

This is how I Felt my husband's priorities were:

1. Self

2. Career

3. Friends

4. Video Games

5. Kids

(husband would probably disagree).

I think spouse would probably be 7 or 8 on my list, and I felt like I was about 3 millionth on his list. He probably felt the same way. He said he felt like I didn't want him around. I felt like he didn't want to be around. He didn't think I wanted to go places with him, I thought he didn't want me along. So obviously, some major communication problems. I've started being very direct with him, and he's been fairly receptive. For example, it occurred to me that he should be tested for STDs, and the baby should have a paternity test. I'm fairly sure he doesn't have anything, and I'm pretty sure the baby is his, but I don't know anything about the OW except that it didn't seem to bother her to screw around with a married man. I thought H would be mad that I even suggested those things, but he just said "okay," and wasn't even annoyed.

Last night we sat together and planned a vacation together, and it almost felt like we were a real couple again. And I did my typical stress-out thing, because We've got a 12,000 HE loan (mostly my husband's credit card spending), and upcoming attorney fees of who knows how much, and child support, which I'm sure will include 1/2 childcare costs and medical, so 4-500/month, and we're already struggling. This is another way I've seen the blessings of the Lord in my life, however; it turns out that this summer I will have had my daycare long enough to apply for the next level of registration, which will allow me to have 1 additional child, and what do you know? Each child brings about $500 per month of income. Anyway, I digress. The point is, when I started to stress, my husband was gently reassuring, and responded with exactly what I needed.

I still have little bouts of depression and anger, but in between those times, I can see hope. I know I'm very blessed that my husband wants to work through this.

[Faded]

Faded--I love your posts. They are so direct, and helpful.

Thank you. I'm just glad that my own experience and some of the insights I've taken away from it are useful to someone else. Nobody should have to live through having a spouse commit adultery. I'll PM you a fake bill for the fake counseling. You should see if you can drag your husband onto the forums. Certainly can't hurt, right?

 

I still have little bouts of depression and anger, but in between those times, I can see hope. I know I'm very blessed that my husband wants to work through this.

You've got a lot more reasons to be happy and thankful than depressed and negative. There are a number of people who have gone through the same experience as you who have posted on this forum. Most of the women who have gone through the same/similar experience on this forum did not have the one critical thing that you DO have. A husband that is willing to work through it. There are many victims of adultery who have tremendous willingness to work through it with their spouse, yet their adulterous spouse just wants to call it quits. They just don't want to save their marriage, or they are unwilling to try even a little bit. In short, the victim is willing to do whatever it takes, but their great faith and devotion to their marriage covenants is wasted on a partner who won't hold up their end of things. Often that offending party just wants to continue on with the affair with the other woman or man.

You need to start asking yourself, "What can I do to improve my opinion of my husband? What can be done to improve his opinion of me?" Everyone has a long list of good characteristics and behaviors, but as a society, we tend to ignore the good and focus on the bad. One simple thing: Anytime you have something to criticize the other person about and you just can't keep it in, set and follow these rules: a.) You're not allowed to tell them about it until you say two things that you genuinely love and admire about them first. b.) Learn to use "I" statements so you're not both putting each other on the defensive. I-statement - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia I-Statements In my personal experience, the instant that a person feels they are being attacked, they stop listening and start looking for a way to retaliate. The last thing you need in your marriage right now is any added animosity and bitterness. What you really DO need is to start chipping away at the bad feelings that have built up over the years.

The biggest thing you can do for your marriage is to get your spiritual selves straightened out. There is NOTHING like God and His love in your life to change your behavior and perception. If you can see others the way Jesus Christ sees them, then you begin to realize that even the worst of people deserve love and respect. It has far more power to change your behavior than the careful analysis and study of your behavior. So on that note, what are you doing for yourself spiritually?

I still remember President Hinckley's response to Larry King. Larry King asked him what he thought of Bill Clinton and what he thought of the whole Monica Lewinski affair. President Hinckley's response was not what I expected. "It must be terrible for him!" He continues to express his sympathy for what Clinton was going through at the time. That's the kind of perspective that I hope I can one day achieve.

Edited May 6, 2014 by pam