Investigator Questions on God, Scripture, etc.

[Investigator1]

Hi all, this is my first post:) I've recently become interested in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, and am still trying to figure out whether or not conversion is the right thing for me. I've been a Catholic from birth, and love liturgical worship and the stories of visits by angels, Mary, etc. I do know that the weekly worship service for LDS isn't liturgical, though the temple ordinances intrigue me.

I haven't read the Book of Mormon yet, though I do have a copy (I've actually had it for over 5 years, when I first became vaguely interested in the CoJCoLDS). I've done a lot of reading, both of the LDS website, jeff lindsay's website, Mormonism for Dummies, and I still need to finish Restoring the Ancient Church. I've also read some ex-Mormon websites, seeing what their issues were with the LDS church. So while I am very intrigued by Mormon beliefs and practices (and the culture and community are really fascinating and attractive), I still am not sure if it is where I should be, if it has the fullness of Truth and the Catholic Church doesn't, etc. I am especially drawn to study based on historical proofs of ancient Christian faith.

So what I am asking for is if anyone can provide me with further resources that explore the continuity of the LDS Church with the first Christians. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints claims to be a "restoration"; therefore it should be able to show that their beliefs continue those of the first Christians. The areas that I am specifically looking for more information on are:

1) the nature of God is really an issue for me. Of course I've grown up with the Trinity, and I know that the LDS church teaches that the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are three separate beings/Gods united in purpose. Trinitarian churches, such as the Catholic and Orthodox Churches, claim that Trinitarianism was professed from the beginning of Christianity, and that the Creeds from various Councils were defined to reject various heresies that began to arise (in fact, the purpose of church Councils in these two churches is to protect the Church from heresies by explicitly stating doctrines). Where can I find further proof that the LDS belief on the nature of God is the historical one (aka the restored belief)? Also, what of the belief that God has a body like ours (sometimes "flesh and bones" is also added to this)?

2) The endowment is a uniquely Mormon ordinance, and while it does sound based in Biblical covenant making practices with God, is the endowment supposed to be viewed as a restored practice? Or is it a "newer" practice based on restored ideals (such as covenant making)?

3) Did the early Christians believe in the "real presence" in the communion elements? It seems that the older churches, such as the Catholic, Orthodox, Oriental Orthodox, Armenian, etc. Churches all profess belief in the real presence of Christ in the bread and wine, as the Body and Blood of Christ. What is the LDS view on the historicity of this claim? As a related issue, liturgical churches tend to provide evidence that the early Christians were liturgical, and had worship formats just like theirs (though the actual liturgies (specifically the words) used might be different). What is the LDS view on the restoration of worship services?

4) Is the belief in the Heavenly Mother a restored belief? Is there evidence that the first Christians believed in Her?

5) Did the early Christians practice ordinances for the dead? Is this really a restored practice?

I think those are the main issues I have at this time. I REALLY want to believe that Joseph Smith did restore the ancient church, as I am really drawn to the community offered by the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. The beliefs on Heaven are also very beautiful. However my issues lie in the realm of history. The Catholic and Orthodox Churches are deeply rooted in history, and their apologetics tend to provide a lot of evidence for continuity of faith, especially the Orthodox Church. Because we have so much writing and relics from the beginnings of Christianity, it seems that there should be a way to provide evidences for the LDS church restoring original Christian beliefs. The view of continued revelation is great, and can be seen as a way to show the continued power of God in the world, however it seems that this can be used as a way to explain away beliefs that might be harder to prove as "restored" beliefs.

So if anyone can help me with these questions, as well as point me in the direction of further LDS apologetics related to history, that would be great! Thanks.

[Guest tomk]

Hi all, this is my first post:) I've recently become interested in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, and am still trying to figure out whether or not conversion is the right thing for me. I've been a Catholic from birth, and love liturgical worship and the stories of visits by angels, Mary, etc. I do know that the weekly worship service for LDS isn't liturgical, though the temple ordinances intrigue me.

I haven't read the Book of Mormon yet, though I do have a copy (I've actually had it for over 5 years, when I first became vaguely interested in the CoJCoLDS). I've done a lot of reading, both of the LDS website, jeff lindsay's website, Mormonism for Dummies, and I still need to finish Restoring the Ancient Church. I've also read some ex-Mormon websites, seeing what their issues were with the LDS church. So while I am very intrigued by Mormon beliefs and practices (and the culture and community are really fascinating and attractive), I still am not sure if it is where I should be, if it has the fullness of Truth and the Catholic Church doesn't, etc. I am especially drawn to study based on historical proofs of ancient Christian faith.

So what I am asking for is if anyone can provide me with further resources that explore the continuity of the LDS Church with the first Christians. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints claims to be a "restoration"; therefore it should be able to show that their beliefs continue those of the first Christians. The areas that I am specifically looking for more information on are:

1) the nature of God is really an issue for me. Of course I've grown up with the Trinity, and I know that the LDS church teaches that the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are three separate beings/Gods united in purpose. Trinitarian churches, such as the Catholic and Orthodox Churches, claim that Trinitarianism was professed from the beginning of Christianity, and that the Creeds from various Councils were defined to reject various heresies that began to arise (in fact, the purpose of church Councils in these two churches is to protect the Church from heresies by explicitly stating doctrines). Where can I find further proof that the LDS belief on the nature of God is the historical one (aka the restored belief)? Also, what of the belief that God has a body like ours (sometimes "flesh and bones" is also added to this)?

Our view on the origins of Trinitarianism and why we believe Christ never taught this:

LDS.org - Liahona Article - The Only True God and Jesus Christ Whom He Hath Sent

2) The endowment is a uniquely Mormon ordinance, and while it does sound based in Biblical covenant making practices with God, is the endowment supposed to be viewed as a restored practice? Or is it a "newer" practice based on restored ideals (such as covenant making)?

The Gospel is the same through all dispensations of time. Our temple rites are a restoration.

3) Did the early Christians believe in the "real presence" in the communion elements? It seems that the older churches, such as the Catholic, Orthodox, Oriental Orthodox, Armenian, etc. Churches all profess belief in the real presence of Christ in the bread and wine, as the Body and Blood of Christ. What is the LDS view on the historicity of this claim? As a related issue, liturgical churches tend to provide evidence that the early Christians were liturgical, and had worship formats just like theirs (though the actual liturgies (specifically the words) used might be different). What is the LDS view on the restoration of worship services?

I don't know. I do know that the center of our worship services is Christ - the renewing of our covenants made at baptism through partaking of the Sacrament. We believe the bread and water to be symbolic of Christ's body and blood. We do not believe in Transubstantiation.

4) Is the belief in the Heavenly Mother a restored belief? Is there evidence that the first Christians believed in Her?

It is a restored belief. We believe we are literal children of our Father...and Mother...in Heaven.

5) Did the early Christians practice ordinances for the dead? Is this really a restored practice?

They practiced this after Christ was resurrected, yes.

1 Cor. 15: 29

29 Else what shall they do which are baptized for the dead, if the dead rise not at all? why are they then baptized for the dead?

I think those are the main issues I have at this time. I REALLY want to believe that Joseph Smith did restore the ancient church, as I am really drawn to the community offered by the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. The beliefs on Heaven are also very beautiful. However my issues lie in the realm of history. The Catholic and Orthodox Churches are deeply rooted in history, and their apologetics tend to provide a lot of evidence for continuity of faith, especially the Orthodox Church. Because we have so much writing and relics from the beginnings of Christianity, it seems that there should be a way to provide evidences for the LDS church restoring original Christian beliefs. The view of continued revelation is great, and can be seen as a way to show the continued power of God in the world, however it seems that this can be used as a way to explain away beliefs that might be harder to prove as "restored" beliefs.

So if anyone can help me with these questions, as well as point me in the direction of further LDS apologetics related to history, that would be great! Thanks.

The most important thing you can do remains to be done: Read the Book of Mormon, and then pray about it, asking in faith, with real intent, if the Book is true. Then act in accordance with the answer you receive:

We invite all men everywhere to read the Book of Mormon, to ponder in their hearts the message it contains, and then to ask God, the Eternal Father, in the name of Christ if the book is true. Those who pursue this course and ask in faith will gain a testimony of its truth and divinity by the power of the Holy Ghost. (See Moroni 10: 3-5.)

Those who gain this divine witness from the Holy Spirit will also come to know by the same power that Jesus Christ is the Savior of the world, that Joseph Smith is his revelator and prophet in these last days, and that The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is the Lord’s kingdom once again established on the earth, preparatory to the second coming of the Messiah.

Good luck with your search for truth.

Tom

[Just_A_Guy]

I would just add that

a) LDS scholar Hugh Nibley has dealt with a number of these questions; you might look into his writings a bit; and

b) as to the temple ceremony: I personally follow your line of thinking that it's a new compilation of very ancient concepts and covenants. I believe there was a "version" of the endowment practiced by early Christians containing some similar elements to the endowment as practiced by Mormons (again, see Nibley's writings); but the LDS endowment today is in many respects different even from the endowment as practiced by Joseph Smith and Brigham Young. Since the 2009 version isn't identical to the 1877 or 1842 versions; I'd suspect there would be even more differences between the 2009 and the A.D. 59 versions.

However, while the liturgy may differ, the underlying reasons for the liturgy and the spiritual benefits associated with it are (I believe) virtually identical.

[Investigator1]

Thanks for the reply! I will read the Liahona article and read the Doctrine of God and the Nature of Man chapter in Restoring the Ancient Church to gain a fuller view on LDS doctrine on God.

What do you mean by the temple rites are a restoration? Did the first Christians build temples, and practice all of the temple rites? I guess the two that I am focusing on are sealing and the endowment. Baptism for the dead is an interesting one, and I've always seen 1 Cor 15:29 referenced in relation to it, but this seems to be the only evidence for it. I think there's a "new" book about that Bible verse and the baptism for the dead practice, I'll look into that. Can you point me in the direction of Bible verses or 1st century Christian writings that show a practice of endowment like rituals?

Does anyone have any views on the real presence vs. symbolic nature of "the Sacrament"? If I do convert, I think this would be a main issue, as Catholicism puts such a large emphasis on Communion, and other historic Churches, as mentioned above, do as well. They don't use the word Transubstantiation (this is a Catholic attempt to define what actually happens), but they all believe in the Real Presence of Christ in the bread and wine, and leave the explanation as a Mystery of God.

Ok so belief in the Heavenly Mother is a restored belief. What evidences are there that the first Christians believed in a Heavenly Mother?

I will definitely read the Book of Mormon soon. It seems that once I sort out these historical issues I have, that will lead me closer to the LDS Church, but at least for me being an academic and being baptized in a historical Church, these issues are important to me, especially if the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints claims to restore original beliefs that are not held by churches that claim to be 2000 years old, especially with the Orthodox Church, which claims to continue beliefs from the first Christians without any addition or subtraction.

Thanks!

[Madriglace]

One of the great things about th BofM is the footnotes that cross reference the entire book to all the other scriptures. Get yourself a copy of the Doctrine & Covenants and Pearl of Great price as well as your Bible and Book of Mormon. All these together will give you a good coverage for your questions.

One thing to remember is that many many books have been left out of the various versions of the Bible. Many "plain and precious things" have been lost or hidden in the effort to make the Bible comform with the teachings of man at the time of compilation. Just because it isn't in the Bible doesn't mean it isn't true or that it wasn't addressed. My suggestion ... humbly read the Book of Moromon, study the cross references and then follow the counsel to go to the Lord in prayer and ask if it is true. He will answer you ... He loves you, He knows your name and He knows your heart ... and is only waiting for you to ask.

[pam]

Concerning our Heavenly Mother...I was told this when I was very young so take it with a grain of salt. It is in no way part of LDS doctrine and could possibly be the Gospel according to Pam.

But it is just a thought.

When I was younger a question came out in one of my classes concerning why we don't hear too much about our Heavenly Mother. The answer was just "Perhaps because Heavenly Father' love for her is beyond description...he wanted to protect her in some ways. That people would keep from taking HER name in vain as people are so wont to do with HIS.

Again not doctrine...but it has always stuck with me. Only for the fact that it could show how much our Heavenly Father loves our Heavenly Mother.

[Giant_Son]

Hi all, this is my first post:) I've recently become interested in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, and am still trying to figure out whether or not conversion is the right thing for me. I've been a Catholic from birth, and love liturgical worship and the stories of visits by angels, Mary, etc. I do know that the weekly worship service for LDS isn't liturgical, though the temple ordinances intrigue me.

I haven't read the Book of Mormon yet, though I do have a copy (I've actually had it for over 5 years, when I first became vaguely interested in the CoJCoLDS). I've done a lot of reading, both of the LDS website, jeff lindsay's website, Mormonism for Dummies, and I still need to finish Restoring the Ancient Church. I've also read some ex-Mormon websites, seeing what their issues were with the LDS church. So while I am very intrigued by Mormon beliefs and practices (and the culture and community are really fascinating and attractive), I still am not sure if it is where I should be, if it has the fullness of Truth and the Catholic Church doesn't, etc. I am especially drawn to study based on historical proofs of ancient Christian faith.

So what I am asking for is if anyone can provide me with further resources that explore the continuity of the LDS Church with the first Christians. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints claims to be a "restoration"; therefore it should be able to show that their beliefs continue those of the first Christians. The areas that I am specifically looking for more information on are:

1) the nature of God is really an issue for me. Of course I've grown up with the Trinity, and I know that the LDS church teaches that the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are three separate beings/Gods united in purpose. Trinitarian churches, such as the Catholic and Orthodox Churches, claim that Trinitarianism was professed from the beginning of Christianity, and that the Creeds from various Councils were defined to reject various heresies that began to arise (in fact, the purpose of church Councils in these two churches is to protect the Church from heresies by explicitly stating doctrines). Where can I find further proof that the LDS belief on the nature of God is the historical one (aka the restored belief)? Also, what of the belief that God has a body like ours (sometimes "flesh and bones" is also added to this)?

2) The endowment is a uniquely Mormon ordinance, and while it does sound based in Biblical covenant making practices with God, is the endowment supposed to be viewed as a restored practice? Or is it a "newer" practice based on restored ideals (such as covenant making)?

3) Did the early Christians believe in the "real presence" in the communion elements? It seems that the older churches, such as the Catholic, Orthodox, Oriental Orthodox, Armenian, etc. Churches all profess belief in the real presence of Christ in the bread and wine, as the Body and Blood of Christ. What is the LDS view on the historicity of this claim? As a related issue, liturgical churches tend to provide evidence that the early Christians were liturgical, and had worship formats just like theirs (though the actual liturgies (specifically the words) used might be different). What is the LDS view on the restoration of worship services?

4) Is the belief in the Heavenly Mother a restored belief? Is there evidence that the first Christians believed in Her?

5) Did the early Christians practice ordinances for the dead? Is this really a restored practice?

I think those are the main issues I have at this time. I REALLY want to believe that Joseph Smith did restore the ancient church, as I am really drawn to the community offered by the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. The beliefs on Heaven are also very beautiful. However my issues lie in the realm of history. The Catholic and Orthodox Churches are deeply rooted in history, and their apologetics tend to provide a lot of evidence for continuity of faith, especially the Orthodox Church. Because we have so much writing and relics from the beginnings of Christianity, it seems that there should be a way to provide evidences for the LDS church restoring original Christian beliefs. The view of continued revelation is great, and can be seen as a way to show the continued power of God in the world, however it seems that this can be used as a way to explain away beliefs that might be harder to prove as "restored" beliefs.

So if anyone can help me with these questions, as well as point me in the direction of further LDS apologetics related to history, that would be great! Thanks.

Have you been visiting with the missionaries? They are essential for your progression as an investigator right now. The Gospel is meant to be learned and lived "line upon line and precept upon precept." It's difficult to understand the roof (deeper doctrines) if you don't understand the walls (basic beliefs) that hold it up. Jesus himself spoke of only giving milk to some of the Jews, because they were not prepared to receive the meat. Please don't look beyond the mark or let old traditions become a stumbling block for you. If you are sincerely looking for the truth and can trust God, then He will lead you to a full understanding. You first should read the Book of Mormon and pray to know if it is true. Once you receive that answer, which usually comes as communicated peace to your heart, then everything else will fall into place and your questions will be answered sufficiently, I promise.

Edited March 10, 2009 by Giant_Son

[Guest tomk]

You may not find a corollary in the Bible for EVERY SINGLE THING that has been restored. Many things that were LOST have been restored -- but that does not mean they can be found in the Bible.

Ironically, the answer is found by looking no further than the immutable fact of gender. Male and Female. Male and Female produce offspring.

Why would it be any different for our Father in Heaven?

That's my point. It is not any different for Him. So this leads us to the answer. We have a Heavenly Mother.

As to why She is not referenced or talked about much -- yes there is a reason for that as well. I do not believe it is because Heavenly Father wishes to protect her from the pain of having her name taken in vain. They are both far beyond such petty nonesense. Our commandments are for US, not for their benefit.

I think the reason She is so seldom mentioned is that some of the greatest lessons are taught by what is NOT said. Some things are made more prominent by their absence.

So the question is -- what is so special about Heavenly Mother? Does it have to do with the KIND of offspring she is capable of having? Is she limited just to spiritual offspring, or can she have physical offspring as well? How does that tie into Adam and Eve, and consequently, to each one of us? The phrase "Ye Are Gods" is much more literal than we grasp. God does not make us something we are not already. He helps unlock what is already there. "The Kingdom of Heaven is within you."

So many things are answered by embracing the simplest, most obvious solution, given the resources at hand.

[WillowTheWhisp]

Investigator1 I was like you once. I wanted to know everything there was to know before I made my decision to join the church. Eventually I realised I only needed to know one thing and that was if Joseph Smith told the truth. Once I realised that I believed him then I knew here was only one Church to join.

If you want to know the longer version of my story check out my testimony on this website.

[Elgama]

I think if you know your Bible when you go through an endowment the fact it is restored and has been present throughout Biblical Times becomes obvious, but to show it to someone who hasn't been through it is nigh impossible.

You do need to start with a testimony because learning to be LDS takes a lifetime - even prophets have admitted they only understand a small portion. As you study answers to questions over time become apparent and for me at least the Bible became more sacred and deeper as a result of the Book of Mormon and attending the temple

-Charley

[john doe]

I think it would be best if you were to split your questions into multiple threads, so that some don't get lost in the mix.

[Investigator1]

Have you been visiting with the missionaries? They are essential for your progression as an investigator right now. The Gospel is meant to be learned and lived "line upon line and precept upon precept." It's difficult to understand the roof (deeper doctrines) if you don't understand the walls (basic beliefs) that hold it up. Jesus himself spoke of only giving milk to some of the Jews, because they were not prepared to receive the meat. Please don't look beyond the mark or let old traditions become a stumbling block for you. If you are sincerely looking for the truth and can trust God, then He will lead you to a full understanding. You first should read the Book of Mormon and pray to know if it is true. Once you receive that answer, which usually comes as communicated peace to your heart, then everything else will fall into place and your questions will be answered sufficiently, I promise.

I have not yet been meeting with the missionaries. I think I would request meeting with them once I have a fairly good idea of what I'm looking for, and if the LDS Church has a good chance of offering that, which I am leaning towards.

[WillowTheWhisp]

Are you seeking the truth? If the answer is yes then meet with the missionaries and give them a chance to present to you what we believe to be the truth

[Investigator1]

You may not find a corollary in the Bible for EVERY SINGLE THING that has been restored. Many things that were LOST have been restored -- but that does not mean they can be found in the Bible.

Ironically, the answer is found by looking no further than the immutable fact of gender. Male and Female. Male and Female produce offspring.

Why would it be any different for our Father in Heaven?

That's my point. It is not any different for Him. So this leads us to the answer. We have a Heavenly Mother.

As to why She is not referenced or talked about much -- yes there is a reason for that as well. I do not believe it is because Heavenly Father wishes to protect her from the pain of having her name taken in vain. They are both far beyond such petty nonesense. Our commandments are for US, not for their benefit.

I think the reason She is so seldom mentioned is that some of the greatest lessons are taught by what is NOT said. Some things are made more prominent by their absence.

So the question is -- what is so special about Heavenly Mother? Does it have to do with the KIND of offspring she is capable of having? Is she limited just to spiritual offspring, or can she have physical offspring as well? How does that tie into Adam and Eve, and consequently, to each one of us? The phrase "Ye Are Gods" is much more literal than we grasp. God does not make us something we are not already. He helps unlock what is already there. "The Kingdom of Heaven is within you."

So many things are answered by embracing the simplest, most obvious solution, given the resources at hand.

Thanks for your views. I think my issue with these explanations is that it's taking a more "logical" approach to theology and I guess I'm a little wary at this point. I definitely do not look for explanations or examples of every doctrine in the Bible, especially being a Catholic, where it is believed that the Church came before the Bible, and while everything might not be explicitly stated in the Bible, none of their beliefs contradict anything in the Bible, and can find examples in written history of continuity of belief.

So as far as the belief in the Heavenly Mother, while it may seem logical that because we are male and female, the Divine should be the same (especially because of being made in [their] image?), I guess what I am also looking for is just historical writings that show that the first Christians believed in a Heavenly Mother.

So my real concerns at this point are the historical basis of the Restoration in relation to the early Christians. While I realize that some practices find correlations with those early Christians, I think that basic restored beliefs, such as in a Heavenly Mother, should be evidenced in those early times, and it doesn't necessarily have to be in the Bible, as from a historic Christian point of view (Catholic, Orthodox, etc), sola scriptura is a false belief.

Sorry for all of these questions, I'll take the mod's advice and separate some questions into other threads. Also, are the missionaries versed in historical analysis of the Restoration? I guess I see the missionaries as not having comparatively analyzed the Restored beliefs with those of the first questions, especially on the "major" differences between Traditional and Mormon Christianity. Thus I come here:D

[Justice]

I will definitely read the Book of Mormon soon. It seems that once I sort out these historical issues I have, that will lead me closer to the LDS Church, but at least for me being an academic and being baptized in a historical Church, these issues are important to me, especially if the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints claims to restore original beliefs that are not held by churches that claim to be 2000 years old, especially with the Orthodox Church, which claims to continue beliefs from the first Christians without any addition or subtraction.

It is a common thing for man to seek truth his own way.

I really hope and pray that you I can communicate to you my intentions, and that you will be able to understand their true meaning.

To be blunt, you cannot learn the things of God by study and evidence.

You say, I know, I just need to sort a few things out.

With all the respect I can muster, no you don't know. It is a lesson that is very difficult for many to learn, and even more difficult, nigh impossible, for scholarly types.

Isaiah 29:

13 Wherefore the Lord said, Forasmuch as this people draw near me with their mouth, and with their lips do honour me, but have removed their heart far from me, and their fear toward me is taught by the precept of men:

Describing the conditions of religion today.

14 Therefore, behold, I will proceed to do a marvellous work among this people, even a marvellous work and a wonder: for the wisdom of their wise men shall perish, and the understanding of their prudent men shall be hid.

How does wisdom of the wise perish?

There is only one way, and that is that they learn truth. That which they thought to be true vanishes, replaced with the absolute truth revealed by God.

Notice it will happen in a marvelous way, and will be a wonder. That is because this new truth does not come to man in man's ways. It comes in God's way...

Obedience.

The only way to show faith in God in this matter and receive the answers you're after, is to do it his way.

Read the Book of Mormon with an open mind, honestly seeking to know if it is true, and praying to Him to reveal the truth of it to you.

If you do it this way, all that other stuff you believe to be true will vanish, and He will speak the peace of truth to your mind.

Edited March 10, 2009 by Justice

[Investigator1]

tonight I'm going to start reading the Book of Mormon :)

[Guest tomk]

Thanks for your views. I think my issue with these explanations is that it's taking a more "logical" approach to theology and I guess I'm a little wary at this point. I definitely do not look for explanations or examples of every doctrine in the Bible, especially being a Catholic, where it is believed that the Church came before the Bible, and while everything might not be explicitly stated in the Bible, none of their beliefs contradict anything in the Bible, and can find examples in written history of continuity of belief.

So as far as the belief in the Heavenly Mother, while it may seem logical that because we are male and female, the Divine should be the same (especially because of being made in [their] image?), I guess what I am also looking for is just historical writings that show that the first Christians believed in a Heavenly Mother.

So my real concerns at this point are the historical basis of the Restoration in relation to the early Christians. While I realize that some practices find correlations with those early Christians, I think that basic restored beliefs, such as in a Heavenly Mother, should be evidenced in those early times, and it doesn't necessarily have to be in the Bible, as from a historic Christian point of view (Catholic, Orthodox, etc), sola scriptura is a false belief.

Sorry for all of these questions, I'll take the mod's advice and separate some questions into other threads. Also, are the missionaries versed in historical analysis of the Restoration? I guess I see the missionaries as not having comparatively analyzed the Restored beliefs with those of the first questions, especially on the "major" differences between Traditional and Mormon Christianity. Thus I come here:D

I don't know of any writings which speak of a Heavenly Mother.

I was going with a more commonsensical approach.

Keep in mind -- not everything to be had is had in scriptures. Some of it comes through personal revelation, which clarifies and confirms existing scripture, as well as revealing new information.

The hurdle for most people is to accept that this is a real and valid way of knowing the truth of something. They kind of ... resent ... that someone can claim to "KNOW" something that they don't. And they justify their resentment when that person cannot point to scripture, or something else that the five senses can detect.

But isn't that the lament of God through the ages? That man requires proof before he will believe?

Such a requirement is not exercising faith.

"Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen."

did you catch it? :)

"the evidence of ----- things NOT SEEN."

The scriptures are saying we can have evidence of things not seen? Heavenly Mother is NOT SEEN by most of us. And yet we can know She is real.

The way we can know She is real is through revelation. Revelation is nothing more than God speaking to man. We each have this priviledge. Otherwise, why pray, if it is always unidirectional!!!!

That is the hurdle for man. Being willing NOT to discard our feelings. Being willing to LOOK FOR the evidence that God is working in our lives and "be believing."

This is not the domain of logic. But after it stands revealed to our minds ... it is all logical ... and completely natural way to gain knowledge.

I cannot open this lifestyle unto you. God can. If you seek it.

[rameumptom]

There are several free downloadable publications that can help you at FAIRLDS.ORG here

The best one for finding ancient ties to the early Church would be Barry Bickmore's Restoring the Ancient Church. Highly recommended. You will end up realizing how much of our restoration teachings really are ancient. And his book is just a beginning, as much research and work has been done since the book was published.

Also decent are the They Lie In Wait to Deceive volumes (also free at FAIR). These tell the background stories of many of the anti-Mormons and their efforts to dismantle the LDS Church.

[rameumptom]

For early belief in a Heavenly Mother, most Biblical scholars today do say that much of early Judaism believed that God had a wife (usually called Asherah). William Dever, one of the foremost Biblical scholars today, even wrote a book on it.

The FAIRMormon wiki has a good article on God's wife.

My friend, Kerry Shirts has a downloadable PDF of a talk he gave recently on the Mother Goddess.

Kevin Christensen tells some of Margaret Barker's thoughts on Heavenly Mother, etc., which tie directly into LDS belief. Margaret Barker is a Methodist minister and key Old Testament scholar from England.

And then there's this discussion on another board I frequent, that focuses on LDS discussions of ancient things.

[h2001st]

As a non-member, I found the publications of John Widtsoe to be an excellent resource.

[h2001st]

So what I am asking for is if anyone can provide me with further resources that explore the continuity of the LDS Church ...

As a non-member, I found the publications of John Widtsoe to be an excellent resource.