Divorce...

[Guest Becki]

Hiya,

I'm doing a talk on Divorce and wondered if I could get some opinions...

becki xxx :)

[Cal]

Originally posted by Becki@Jan 26 2005, 03:15 PM

Hiya,

I'm doing a talk on Divorce and wondered if I could get some opinions...

becki xxx :)

The only way to avoid it completely is not get married. Want any other pearls of wisdom. Short of that, things that lessen the likelihood........

1) Don't get married young (before 25 at least)--the worse advice I got from any LDS church leader was to hurry up and get married right after your mission. Church leaders REALLY need to STOP telling return missionaries to get married before they are through with their educations and get a career.

2) So, don't get married until you have your education (at least BA)--both men and women---and have been working at a career for a few years---financial trouble is the main cause of divorce.

3) Postponing marriage also allows you to get to know yourself and have experience with lots of personality types so you know what you want, and don't feel deprived of a fun singlehood.

4) Don't have kids for at least 5 years after you are married. Kids often ruin romance.

5) Women--give your husband sex whenever he wants it, and don't turn into a fat slob. Give him his way most the time, and he will reward you by actually letting you make most the decisions---NEVER, and I mean NEVER let him think that you expect to be in charge--and NEVER whine. Men HATE that---and if he is any kind of man, he will kick you to the curb the first time you do it. Don't pretend to be one way before marriage, and then change into something else after you snagg him--he will resent you for it. Expect that the guy is going to be an inconsiderate slob some of the time--accept it. If you can't don't marry him.

6) Men---make a lot of money, nothing else keeps women has happy as that. And be kind and polite to her, but don't lose your manly, independent edge. (In otherwords, don't let her cut your ________s off--let her know right off the top who is in charge--and stay in charge. If she starts nagging you while you are still dating, kick her to the curb quick. If she starts doing it after you are married---give her the ultimatum "knock it off, or I'm out of here".... and mean it.

Most important rule of all: Never try to change the person after you are married, accept the person COMPLETELY--short of actual abuse (which you should be able to notice BEFORE you get married--which is why you date them a LONG time before agreeing to marry)

This should get things rolling....

[Writer_Chick1213]

Ok I really hope you were joking Cal. If not then you deserve to have your ___s cut off as you so elequently put it...lol jk. I don't think that was the kind of advice they were looking for. There is another post in the gospel discussion section that has a lot of opinions in there. also try www.lds.org and type divorce in the search thingy there. From my perspective I can offer some insight. My parents divorced when I was 8 and i'm 16 now. Nothing has ever been more of a witness to me of why Heavenly Father set up the family the way he did. It is essential to have both parents there to raise their children. My father was not active in my life and it has had great consequences in my life. A divorce should be avoided at all costs but sometimes there is no other option...also see the book true to the faith because it has a good section on divorce. Divorced families have to work especially hard to be successful in the gospel. Each member of my family with the exception of my mother has become inactive at some point but now everyone is active except for my father. When divorce does occur there is often a lot of judgement and blame placed on the family from other members. This is wrong. Its not the members place to judge, its Heavenly Fathers. Often families get pushed away from the gospel when the exact opposite is what is needed. I found it comforting to think of it this way: since my father on earth wasn't there for me, it was a comfort to know that I still had a Father in Heaven that loved me unconditionally. I can't really answer much for you that the general authorities haven't already said a thousand times better. However if you have more questions you can just pm on this site or e-mail me at [email protected]

[pushka]

LOL Cal

Points 1-4 I completely agree with (although I didn't strictly follow those myself, and am divorced now!! lol)...points 5 and 6 I will take to be tongue in cheek remarks!!

I think the most important things to do in a marriage, to keep it strong, are to work together, play together and respect each other. When temptation comes your way in the form of another man or woman, resist! Care for each other when either of you are ill, and share the responsibility of raising and disciplining the children as far as is possible. Do not criticise or undermine your partner in front of family members or friends, hold your tongue until you can discuss your differences alone. Try to smile :)

[DisRuptive1]

I do have to agree with Cal.

Most women get off better in a divorce than a man. The man loses money, the woman gains it. (alas)

Women shouldn't nag. They should give themselves up to their men when asked. Otherwise if they don't they shouldn't take offense when he goes out and finds someone else to take care of his needs. You will never, ever have any guy better than the one you have now if you are older than 30. So keep it working. And let him be in charge. Cal knows what he's talking about. If a man thinks he's in charge he doesn't make a big fuss over things that come up that he'd be in charge of choosing. Imagine:

(woman in charge)

Stupid Wife: Honey, let's go to Olive Garden.

Husband: I don't want Italian. I want a steak. We're going to Black Angus.

(man in charge)

Smart wife: Hey babe, where do you want to go out to eat tonight?

Husband in charge: I don't care.

Smart wife:: How about Olive Garden?

Husband in charge: Whatever.j

A man in charge becomes lazy with his responsibility and ends up delegating his role to his wife. A man who isn't in charge attempts to subvert his wife at every opportunity until he finally is in control. It's like a security blanket. Sure he doesn't need to have it, but he wants to know it's there for him when he's ready to take it back.

Do you wonder why YOUR parents had such long lasting marriages while yours ends so soon? Maybe it's the fact that it was the age in which your grandmother grew up. Your grandparents didn't have to deal with all this equality being jack-of-all-trades crap. Everybody had their place. The woman stayed home and cooked meals and took care of the kids, and did everything she could in order to do that job the best. The man went to work and did whatever he could to bring the most money home. The woman submitted to her husband. The husband became docile. The woman took care of the problems of the home including marital problems, and marriages lasted.

One reason men marry is to be with a beautiful woman. When that woman isn't beautiful or thin anymore because of a lazier lifestyle and/or children there isn't much else that keeps the man in the relationship. But he doesn't dare get a divorce. It will hurt his wallet book. So he goes out and finds other women. That way he keeps the love of his wife and family and takes care of his individual needs.

[pushka]

What about the men who lose interest in their own looks...become a fat slob? Are they forgiven for this, or should this justify their women going out elsewhere to find someone who looks better, and gives them sex on demand!!

I don't think marriages should consist of master/mistress and slave, it should be an equal opportunity deal...commitment with co-operation on both parts, and lots and lots of communication whenever one partner feels ill done to.

[yaanufs]

Originally posted by Becki@Jan 26 2005, 04:15 PM

Hiya,

I'm doing a talk on Divorce and wondered if I could get some opinions...

becki xxx :)

My tip would be to get a divorce before any kids come along in the marriage. It should make it much easier that way

[Writer_Chick1213]

oi. Ok obviously i'm not married, but do you really think that is what marriage is about? Who's in control? Sex? Money? I really suggest you go to the proclamation to the family set out by the first presidency. I mean my gosh, the tips you people are giving (except for pushka, that actually made sense) are sure ways to destroy a marriage. In all of these you're showing a complete lack of respect for each other which is what often causes a marriage to deteriorate. This lack of respect can lead to abuse, physical, mental, verbal, and emotional abuse. My suggestion for the person who asked the question: don't listen to anyone on here, go to the scriptures, and the prophets advice.

[pushka]

Thank you writer chick...I wish you all the success in the world with whomever you choose to marry...

[StrawberryFields]

In a good marriage, the Me or I don't show up in the ways some have listed above.

I believe that selfishness is what leads to divorce.

[Guest TheProudDuck]

Writer,

If I read you correctly, you're criticizing Cal for saying that women who want to stay married ought to attend to their husbands' sexual needs, and ought to be given some slack in the nagging department.

Reverse the roles: What would you think of a man who didn't make an effort to meet his wife's needs -- for example, he didn't make an effort to provide for the family, was emotionally distant and spent all his time playing poker and golf with his buddies? And who constantly berated and found fault with his wife? (How is nagging much different from that?)

A man who allows himself to be nagged is participating in the corruption of his wife's character, and is partly responsible for her turning into a bitter person. And a woman who has sex with her husband only when she feels like it (which may well be significantly less often than he does) is exposing him to the temptation of infidelity. Maybe he'll be a saintly monk and be satisfied with once-a-month frequency and constant rejection -- but maybe he won't yet be spiritually strong enough to resist. The primary responsibility for sin will be his, but the Bible does say something about how we should avoid placing people in a position where they may offend.

Whatever you want to think of the world the way Cal described it, that's the way it is. The Church does encourage husbands to love their wives as Christ loves the Church, and it helps, but for heaven's sake, don't make a man's marriage into a trial of his faith, or him into a suffering monk. Both partners need to recognize that the other's needs are not mirror images (the Proclamation on the Family recognizes the innate differences and different roles of men and women). Husbands and wives are equal, but they are not the same. They are equally entitled to respect, but the respect must be expressed in different ways, appropriate to their different natures.

[Cal]

Originally posted by Writer_Chick1213@Jan 26 2005, 06:55 PM

Ok I really hope you were joking Cal. If not then you deserve to have your ___s cut off as you so elequently put it...lol jk. I don't think that was the kind of advice they were looking for. There is another post in the gospel discussion section that has a lot of opinions in there. also try www.lds.org and type divorce in the search thingy there. From my perspective I can offer some insight. My parents divorced when I was 8 and i'm 16 now. Nothing has ever been more of a witness to me of why Heavenly Father set up the family the way he did. It is essential to have both parents there to raise their children. My father was not active in my life and it has had great consequences in my life. A divorce should be avoided at all costs but sometimes there is no other option...also see the book true to the faith because it has a good section on divorce. Divorced families have to work especially hard to be successful in the gospel. Each member of my family with the exception of my mother has become inactive at some point but now everyone is active except for my father. When divorce does occur there is often a lot of judgement and blame placed on the family from other members. This is wrong. Its not the members place to judge, its Heavenly Fathers. Often families get pushed away from the gospel when the exact opposite is what is needed. I found it comforting to think of it this way: since my father on earth wasn't there for me, it was a comfort to know that I still had a Father in Heaven that loved me unconditionally. I can't really answer much for you that the general authorities haven't already said a thousand times better. However if you have more questions you can just pm on this site or e-mail me at [email protected]

Tell me what SPECIFICALLY you disagree with--which statement? I said a lot of things--which one don't you like?

[Cal]

Originally posted by pushka@Jan 26 2005, 07:07 PM

LOL Cal

Points 1-4 I completely agree with (although I didn't strictly follow those myself, and am divorced now!! lol)...points 5 and 6 I will take to be tongue in cheek remarks!!

I think the most important things to do in a marriage, to keep it strong, are to work together, play together and respect each other. When temptation comes your way in the form of another man or woman, resist! Care for each other when either of you are ill, and share the responsibility of raising and disciplining the children as far as is possible. Do not criticise or undermine your partner in front of family members or friends, hold your tongue until you can discuss your differences alone. Try to smile :)

In points 5 and 6 I said quite a few things--some, I will admit, were somewhat tongue in cheek, though, not completely. Which particular part don't you agree with?

[Cal]

Originally posted by DisRuptive1@Jan 27 2005, 01:02 AM

I do have to agree with Cal.

Most women get off better in a divorce than a man. The man loses money, the woman gains it. (alas)

Women shouldn't nag. They should give themselves up to their men when asked. Otherwise if they don't they shouldn't take offense when he goes out and finds someone else to take care of his needs. You will never, ever have any guy better than the one you have now if you are older than 30. So keep it working. And let him be in charge. Cal knows what he's talking about. If a man thinks he's in charge he doesn't make a big fuss over things that come up that he'd be in charge of choosing. Imagine:

(woman in charge)

Stupid Wife: Honey, let's go to Olive Garden.

Husband: I don't want Italian. I want a steak. We're going to Black Angus.

(man in charge)

Smart wife: Hey babe, where do you want to go out to eat tonight?

Husband in charge: I don't care.

Smart wife:: How about Olive Garden?

Husband in charge: Whatever.j

A man in charge becomes lazy with his responsibility and ends up delegating his role to his wife. A man who isn't in charge attempts to subvert his wife at every opportunity until he finally is in control. It's like a security blanket. Sure he doesn't need to have it, but he wants to know it's there for him when he's ready to take it back.

Do you wonder why YOUR parents had such long lasting marriages while yours ends so soon? Maybe it's the fact that it was the age in which your grandmother grew up. Your grandparents didn't have to deal with all this equality being jack-of-all-trades crap. Everybody had their place. The woman stayed home and cooked meals and took care of the kids, and did everything she could in order to do that job the best. The man went to work and did whatever he could to bring the most money home. The woman submitted to her husband. The husband became docile. The woman took care of the problems of the home including marital problems, and marriages lasted.

One reason men marry is to be with a beautiful woman. When that woman isn't beautiful or thin anymore because of a lazier lifestyle and/or children there isn't much else that keeps the man in the relationship. But he doesn't dare get a divorce. It will hurt his wallet book. So he goes out and finds other women. That way he keeps the love of his wife and family and takes care of his individual needs.

Right on, Bro--nail on the head!

[Cal]

Originally posted by pushka@Jan 27 2005, 01:33 AM

What about the men who lose interest in their own looks...become a fat slob? Are they forgiven for this, or should this justify their women going out elsewhere to find someone who looks better, and gives them sex on demand!!

I don't think marriages should consist of master/mistress and slave, it should be an equal opportunity deal...commitment with co-operation on both parts, and lots and lots of communication whenever one partner feels ill done to.

The difference is that women, as a rule, don't marry men because of their looks. They marry them because of their walet--the better looking the woman, the bigger walet she can attract--this is a general truth, there are exceptions of course.

So, as long as the guy doesn't turn into an extreme slob, she is willing to tolerate his gain in weight, as long as he "takes good care$$$$$" of her.

[Cal]

Originally posted by Writer_Chick1213@Jan 27 2005, 07:40 AM

oi. Ok obviously i'm not married, but do you really think that is what marriage is about? Who's in control? Sex? Money? I really suggest you go to the proclamation to the family set out by the first presidency. I mean my gosh, the tips you people are giving (except for pushka, that actually made sense) are sure ways to destroy a marriage. In all of these you're showing a complete lack of respect for each other which is what often causes a marriage to deteriorate. This lack of respect can lead to abuse, physical, mental, verbal, and emotional abuse. My suggestion for the person who asked the question: don't listen to anyone on here, go to the scriptures, and the prophets advice.

If that is true, why are there so many divorces even in the Church.

And, who said anything about abuse? Where did you get that? I simply outlined what I see as the expectations that people have comming into a marriage, and why they get married. Of course you should treat your spouse with respect, but that doesn't mean that you both have to have the same roles or expectations. As a general rule, men want to be taken care of sexually, and women want to be taken care of "walet-ly". Both have to understand that. If you don't give a man the sex he wants (that includes keeping yourself reasonably presentable) he's going to stray, at least mentally. If you don't give a woman a decent standard of living, she's going to hit the trail, if she can manage to take you for enough.

[Cal]

Originally posted by Strawberry Fields@Jan 27 2005, 09:46 AM

In a good marriage, the Me or I don't show up in the ways some have listed above.

I believe that selfishness is what leads to divorce.

What planet were you born on, sis? There is no such thing as "selflessness". Yes, you are considerate of the other person's needs. Why, because you want something in return, and have a right to expect it----that is not selflessness, it is indeed, selfish, but it is not UNREASONABLE selfishness. It is reasonable to want for yourself, things like kindness from the other person, and you have the right to expect the other to fulfill your reasonable needs. That is why women need to put out and men need to get a job, as a general rule. If either party renegs on the deal, it has a good chance of falling apart.

It's not about selfishness or unselfishness, its about understanding reasonable expectations, and fulfilling them.

Let's put it this way, most men don't need an "unselfish" doormat of a wife. They want a wife that gets a lot of selfish pleasure out of pleasing him--in other words, she likes sex too. There is nothing worse than making love to a corpse.

[Jenda]

Originally posted by Cal+Jan 27 2005, 02:09 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Cal @ Jan 27 2005, 02:09 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--Writer_Chick1213@Jan 27 2005, 07:40 AM

oi. Ok obviously i'm not married, but do you really think that is what marriage is about? Who's in control? Sex? Money? I really suggest you go to the proclamation to the family set out by the first presidency. I mean my gosh, the tips you people are giving (except for pushka, that actually made sense) are sure ways to destroy a marriage. In all of these you're showing a complete lack of respect for each other which is what often causes a marriage to deteriorate. This lack of respect can lead to abuse, physical, mental, verbal, and emotional abuse. My suggestion for the person who asked the question: don't listen to anyone on here, go to the scriptures, and the prophets advice.

If that is true, why are there so many divorces even in the Church.

And, who said anything about abuse? Where did you get that? I simply outlined what I see as the expectations that people have comming into a marriage, and why they get married. Of course you should treat your spouse with respect, but that doesn't mean that you both have to have the same roles or expectations. As a general rule, men want to be taken care of sexually, and women want to be taken care of "walet-ly". Both have to understand that. If you don't give a man the sex he wants (that includes keeping yourself reasonably presentable) he's going to stray, at least mentally. If you don't give a woman a decent standard of living, she's going to hit the trail, if she can manage to take you for enough.

I think you are stretching things a bit (maybe not as much as DisRuptive1, but still stretching things.)

I think women are only interested in taking you to the cleaners if she is poorly treated in lots of ways. Or horribly treated in only one or two ways. Many women want nothing more than to be "out". They don't even want the money because that constantly reminds them of the absolute horrid conditions they lived under for so long. Believe me, I speak from experience.

Some men just think that anything a woman gets is too much. Often a man encourages the woman to not work, to be an in-the-home worker, and when they mistreat the woman and the woman wants out, and enough money for support (since they no longer have marketable skills), they cry the blues. But they are the ones that created that situation.

[Cal]

Originally posted by TheProudDuck@Jan 27 2005, 01:35 PM

Writer,

If I read you correctly, you're criticizing Cal for saying that women who want to stay married ought to attend to their husbands' sexual needs, and ought to be given some slack in the nagging department.

Reverse the roles: What would you think of a man who didn't make an effort to meet his wife's needs -- for example, he didn't make an effort to provide for the family, was emotionally distant and spent all his time playing poker and golf with his buddies? And who constantly berated and found fault with his wife? (How is nagging much different from that?)

A man who allows himself to be nagged is participating in the corruption of his wife's character, and is partly responsible for her turning into a bitter person. And a woman who has sex with her husband only when she feels like it (which may well be significantly less often than he does) is exposing him to the temptation of infidelity. Maybe he'll be a saintly monk and be satisfied with once-a-month frequency and constant rejection -- but maybe he won't yet be spiritually strong enough to resist. The primary responsibility for sin will be his, but the Bible does say something about how we should avoid placing people in a position where they may offend.

Whatever you want to think of the world the way Cal described it, that's the way it is. The Church does encourage husbands to love their wives as Christ loves the Church, and it helps, but for heaven's sake, don't make a man's marriage into a trial of his faith, or him into a suffering monk. Both partners need to recognize that the other's needs are not mirror images (the Proclamation on the Family recognizes the innate differences and different roles of men and women). Husbands and wives are equal, but they are not the same. They are equally entitled to respect, but the respect must be expressed in different ways, appropriate to their different natures.

Brilliant essay!

[Cal]

Originally posted by Jenda+Jan 27 2005, 02:17 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Jenda @ Jan 27 2005, 02:17 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>

Originally posted by -Cal@Jan 27 2005, 02:09 PM

<!--QuoteBegin--Writer_Chick1213@Jan 27 2005, 07:40 AM

oi. Ok obviously i'm not married, but do you really think that is what marriage is about? Who's in control? Sex? Money? I really suggest you go to the proclamation to the family set out by the first presidency. I mean my gosh, the tips you people are giving (except for pushka, that actually made sense) are sure ways to destroy a marriage. In all of these you're showing a complete lack of respect for each other which is what often causes a marriage to deteriorate. This lack of respect can lead to abuse, physical, mental, verbal, and emotional abuse. My suggestion for the person who asked the question: don't listen to anyone on here, go to the scriptures, and the prophets advice.

If that is true, why are there so many divorces even in the Church.

And, who said anything about abuse? Where did you get that? I simply outlined what I see as the expectations that people have comming into a marriage, and why they get married. Of course you should treat your spouse with respect, but that doesn't mean that you both have to have the same roles or expectations. As a general rule, men want to be taken care of sexually, and women want to be taken care of "walet-ly". Both have to understand that. If you don't give a man the sex he wants (that includes keeping yourself reasonably presentable) he's going to stray, at least mentally. If you don't give a woman a decent standard of living, she's going to hit the trail, if she can manage to take you for enough.

I think you are stretching things a bit (maybe not as much as DisRuptive1, but still stretching things.)

I think women are only interested in taking you to the cleaners if she is poorly treated in lots of ways. Or horribly treated in only one or two ways. Many women want nothing more than to be "out". They don't even want the money because that constantly reminds them of the absolute horrid conditions they lived under for so long. Believe me, I speak from experience.

Some men just think that anything a woman gets is too much. Often a man encourages the woman to not work, to be an in-the-home worker, and when they mistreat the woman and the woman wants out, and enough money for support (since they no longer have marketable skills), they cry the blues. But they are the ones that created that situation.

You haven't stated one single thing that you disagreed with me about.

All you refered to where the evils of ABUSE. Where did I advocate ANY abuse? I abhor abuse--there is no place for it in any relationship, and if it occurs, the partner should high tail it out of there yesterday?

Please address the things I said, state them specifically, and comment on them, not something I DIDN'T say.

Also, I'm not talking about what "SOME" men do--obviously there are SOME men who will do ANYTHING. Again, I don't advocate abuse, nor condone it.

Are you implying that to expect your wife to fulfill her role as a sexual partner to be an "abuse". Read again what PD had to say, he said it extremely well.

[Jenda]

Originally posted by Cal+Jan 27 2005, 02:27 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Cal @ Jan 27 2005, 02:27 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>

Originally posted by -Jenda@Jan 27 2005, 02:17 PM

Originally posted by -Cal@Jan 27 2005, 02:09 PM

<!--QuoteBegin--Writer_Chick1213@Jan 27 2005, 07:40 AM

oi. Ok obviously i'm not married, but do you really think that is what marriage is about? Who's in control? Sex? Money? I really suggest you go to the proclamation to the family set out by the first presidency. I mean my gosh, the tips you people are giving (except for pushka, that actually made sense) are sure ways to destroy a marriage. In all of these you're showing a complete lack of respect for each other which is what often causes a marriage to deteriorate. This lack of respect can lead to abuse, physical, mental, verbal, and emotional abuse. My suggestion for the person who asked the question: don't listen to anyone on here, go to the scriptures, and the prophets advice.

If that is true, why are there so many divorces even in the Church.

And, who said anything about abuse? Where did you get that? I simply outlined what I see as the expectations that people have comming into a marriage, and why they get married. Of course you should treat your spouse with respect, but that doesn't mean that you both have to have the same roles or expectations. As a general rule, men want to be taken care of sexually, and women want to be taken care of "walet-ly". Both have to understand that. If you don't give a man the sex he wants (that includes keeping yourself reasonably presentable) he's going to stray, at least mentally. If you don't give a woman a decent standard of living, she's going to hit the trail, if she can manage to take you for enough.

I think you are stretching things a bit (maybe not as much as DisRuptive1, but still stretching things.)

I think women are only interested in taking you to the cleaners if she is poorly treated in lots of ways. Or horribly treated in only one or two ways. Many women want nothing more than to be "out". They don't even want the money because that constantly reminds them of the absolute horrid conditions they lived under for so long. Believe me, I speak from experience.

Some men just think that anything a woman gets is too much. Often a man encourages the woman to not work, to be an in-the-home worker, and when they mistreat the woman and the woman wants out, and enough money for support (since they no longer have marketable skills), they cry the blues. But they are the ones that created that situation.

You haven't stated one single thing that you disagreed with me about.

All you refered to where the evils of ABUSE. Where did I advocate ANY abuse? I abhor abuse--there is no place for it in any relationship, and if it occurs, the partner should high tail it out of there yesterday?

Please address the things I said, state them specifically, and comment on them, not something I DIDN'T say.

Also, I'm not talking about what "SOME" men do--obviously there are SOME men who will do ANYTHING. Again, I don't advocate abuse, nor condone it.

Are you implying that to expect your wife to fulfill her role as a sexual partner to be an "abuse". Read again what PD had to say, he said it extremely well.

Cal, you made one gigantic sweeping stereotype of women that just doesn't hold water. I have never known any woman who married a man for his wallet. The point of my post was that the only time the wallet seems to be involved is when the woman is abused, and then, depending on the severity of the abuse, the wallet is of no use or of ultimate use. It would be helpful to speak to truths rather than stereotypes.

[Guest TheProudDuck]

Cal,

There is nothing worse than making love to a corpse.

Enough people seem to disagree with that sentiment that California saw it necessary to pass a law against that kind of thing last year.

[Cal]

Originally posted by Jenda+Jan 27 2005, 02:51 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Jenda @ Jan 27 2005, 02:51 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>

Originally posted by -Cal@Jan 27 2005, 02:27 PM

Originally posted by -Jenda@Jan 27 2005, 02:17 PM

Originally posted by -Cal@Jan 27 2005, 02:09 PM

<!--QuoteBegin--Writer_Chick1213@Jan 27 2005, 07:40 AM

oi. Ok obviously i'm not married, but do you really think that is what marriage is about? Who's in control? Sex? Money? I really suggest you go to the proclamation to the family set out by the first presidency. I mean my gosh, the tips you people are giving (except for pushka, that actually made sense) are sure ways to destroy a marriage. In all of these you're showing a complete lack of respect for each other which is what often causes a marriage to deteriorate. This lack of respect can lead to abuse, physical, mental, verbal, and emotional abuse. My suggestion for the person who asked the question: don't listen to anyone on here, go to the scriptures, and the prophets advice.

If that is true, why are there so many divorces even in the Church.

And, who said anything about abuse? Where did you get that? I simply outlined what I see as the expectations that people have comming into a marriage, and why they get married. Of course you should treat your spouse with respect, but that doesn't mean that you both have to have the same roles or expectations. As a general rule, men want to be taken care of sexually, and women want to be taken care of "walet-ly". Both have to understand that. If you don't give a man the sex he wants (that includes keeping yourself reasonably presentable) he's going to stray, at least mentally. If you don't give a woman a decent standard of living, she's going to hit the trail, if she can manage to take you for enough.

I think you are stretching things a bit (maybe not as much as DisRuptive1, but still stretching things.)

I think women are only interested in taking you to the cleaners if she is poorly treated in lots of ways. Or horribly treated in only one or two ways. Many women want nothing more than to be "out". They don't even want the money because that constantly reminds them of the absolute horrid conditions they lived under for so long. Believe me, I speak from experience.

Some men just think that anything a woman gets is too much. Often a man encourages the woman to not work, to be an in-the-home worker, and when they mistreat the woman and the woman wants out, and enough money for support (since they no longer have marketable skills), they cry the blues. But they are the ones that created that situation.

You haven't stated one single thing that you disagreed with me about.

All you refered to where the evils of ABUSE. Where did I advocate ANY abuse? I abhor abuse--there is no place for it in any relationship, and if it occurs, the partner should high tail it out of there yesterday?

Please address the things I said, state them specifically, and comment on them, not something I DIDN'T say.

Also, I'm not talking about what "SOME" men do--obviously there are SOME men who will do ANYTHING. Again, I don't advocate abuse, nor condone it.

Are you implying that to expect your wife to fulfill her role as a sexual partner to be an "abuse". Read again what PD had to say, he said it extremely well.

Cal, you made one gigantic sweeping stereotype of women that just doesn't hold water. I have never known any woman who married a man for his wallet. The point of my post was that the only time the wallet seems to be involved is when the woman is abused, and then, depending on the severity of the abuse, the wallet is of no use or of ultimate use. It would be helpful to speak to truths rather than stereotypes.

Jenda--first I'm not dealing with stereotypes, I'm dealing with what GENERALLY happens. Let me ask you, how often do you see a really classy HOT looking, young woman with a POOR guy? As a rule you don't. (of course there are exceptions). On the other hand, how often do you see really young hot chicks with ugly, but filty rich dudes---all the time.

Generally speaking, guys get as hot a chick as their walet can afford, and girls get as rich a guy as their looks will attract. That is the general truth--yes there are exceptions, but we're not talking about the exceptions, just the general reality.

Women hate to admit these truths. They say, "oh, I married him for his wonderful personality". Yeah, but if his wonderful personality hadn't included at least the potential for a wonderful bottomline it might have been a different story.

Now, fat ugly girls have to settle for what ever they can get, which may mean a nice, poor guy, with a great personality. Sorry for telling the truth ladies, but if you want to attract educated, successful guys, loose 70 lbs and learn to put on some makeup.

Jenda, the reason you haven't "heard" of any girls who marry for this reason is because they generally don't admit it out loud, especially to men. They are no fools. Just like men never admit that they mainly want great sex, first and what ever else comes second. Women want money first, and sex second.

[Cal]

Originally posted by TheProudDuck@Jan 27 2005, 03:07 PM

Cal,

There is nothing worse than making love to a corpse.

Enough people seem to disagree with that sentiment that California saw it necessary to pass a law against that kind of thing last year.

Well,judging by the rate of divorse, maybe it's going to be harder to enforce than they thought.

[StrawberryFields]

Originally posted by Cal+Jan 27 2005, 03:17 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Cal @ Jan 27 2005, 03:17 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--Strawberry Fields@Jan 27 2005, 09:46 AM

In a good marriage, the Me or I don't show up in the ways some have listed above.

I believe that selfishness is what leads to divorce.

What planet were you born on, sis? There is no such thing as "selflessness". Yes, you are considerate of the other person's needs. Why, because you want something in return, and have a right to expect it----that is not selflessness, it is indeed, selfish, but it is not UNREASONABLE selfishness. It is reasonable to want for yourself, things like kindness from the other person, and you have the right to expect the other to fulfill your reasonable needs. That is why women need to put out and men need to get a job, as a general rule. If either party renegs on the deal, it has a good chance of falling apart.

It's not about selfishness or unselfishness, its about understanding reasonable expectations, and fulfilling them.

Let's put it this way, most men don't need an "unselfish" doormat of a wife. They want a wife that gets a lot of selfish pleasure out of pleasing him--in other words, she likes sex too. There is nothing worse than making love to a corpse.

Cal, you seem to know so much about what it takes not to have a divorce.

Do you have a healthy marriage to a woman?

Have you been through a divorce?

You have a way of SHOUTING in your posts that just doesn't radiate a healthy attitude about relationships.