Divorce...

[Cal]

Originally posted by Jenda+Feb 4 2005, 07:21 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Jenda @ Feb 4 2005, 07:21 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>

Originally posted by -Cal@Feb 4 2005, 07:09 PM

Originally posted by -Jenda@Feb 3 2005, 10:05 PM

Originally posted by -Cal@Feb 3 2005, 09:17 PM

<!--QuoteBegin--Jenda@Feb 3 2005, 09:01 PM

Sorry, I don't feel the need to attract a man with lots of money.  I prefer someone who is companionable to money.  I was married for quite a few years to a man whose income would put him in what is considered the top tax bracket, and with both of our salaries (and I made almost as much as him), we lived comfortably, but as I was not in it for the money, the money did not keep me there. 

So much for your hypothesis.

Frankly, I must ask, can you honestly say, his earning power made no difference to you. I seriously doubt it, even if you say so. I think you are decieving yourself.

Secondly, that you consider yourself an exception, hardly disproves the rule. It takes more than a few exceptions to do that. Read the research again.

I don't consider myself an exception. You consider me an exception. I think I am the rule.

Why do you think that, when all the research shows otherwise?

I read the articles at the links you posted, and the second one dealing with women has some very interesting statements scattered throughout it.

"Evolutionary psychology offers one view about female psychology. Not all psychologists agree that this theory offers a complete explanation of "what women want", but some find the logic attractive. "

I highlighted the areas above that state just how accepted this theory is.

This was at the bottom, sort of like a conclusion:

Perhaps the most abstract quality a woman looks for in a man regards love and commitment. A man can have all of the resources in the world, but if he does not choose to give his potential mate love and commitment, many women will go in search of another mate.

One question I would like to ask a researcher doing a study is, what is the population they are using for a baseline? Are they questioning only college students (who have one set of values), or women who enter the workforce right out of high school on an industrial level (who seem to have a different set of values), high-school drop-outs, etc. My guess from reading this one reference is that they focus on college students and leave all other women out of it. Because like I said, I know lots of women, and this theory just doesn't hold water with most of them, or me, which is why I consider myself the rule and not the exception.

I will agree that most women want it ALL. They want a warm sensitive guy who is "sensitive to all their needs" and who call also go out into the world and kick major but in the work place. They want a nice caring Atila the Hun. Unfortunately, the two qualities don't often go hand in hand in men. Essentially, women want men with both femine and male qualities. Men on the other hand tend to be satisfied with females that act like females (they don't really care much if she can kick her way to the top of the corporate ladder)

[Amillia]

I will agree that most women want it ALL. They want a warm sensitive guy who is "sensitive to all their needs"  and who call also go out into the world and kick major but in the work place. They want a nice caring Atila the Hun. Unfortunately, the two qualities don't often go hand in hand in men. Essentially, women want men with both femine and male qualities. Men on the other hand tend to be satisfied with females that act like females (they don't really care much if she can kick her way to the top of the corporate ladder)

Actually ALL men want is someone who will dish it all out in the bedroom. And MOST men would be totally intimidated by a woman who could kick her way to the top of the corporate ladder.

[DisRuptive1]

What men want:

A lady in the parlor, a cook in the kitchen, and a harlot in the bedroom.

[Amillia]

Originally posted by DisRuptive1@Feb 6 2005, 12:55 PM

What men want:

A lady in the parlor, a cook in the kitchen, and a harlot in the bedroom.

Very very true!!!

[Guest curvette]

Originally posted by DisRuptive1@Feb 6 2005, 11:55 AM

What men want:

A lady in the parlor, a cook in the kitchen, and a harlot in the bedroom.

Shaaaaaah! And it's supposed to happen with no effort whatsoever on the part of the man. We're supposed to be lightswitches!

[DisRuptive1]

Yeah it is quite sad. Our grandparents had it pretty well. Men respected woman and treated them like greater people than they actually were, although at the same time they denied them voting rights (which they still don't use properly) and the possibility of achieving equality in the workplace (which they still happen to be working towards). Although in my opinion, I don't think the majority of women should get paid as much as men in salaried jobs.

[StrawberryFields]

Originally posted by DisRuptive1@Feb 6 2005, 09:40 PM

Yeah it is quite sad. Our grandparents had it pretty well. Men respected woman and treated them like greater people than they actually were...

Our grandmothers were very great women and our grandfathers treated them as they should be treated. If more men treated their wives with love and respect they would be astounded as to the care they would receive in return.

[Cal]

Originally posted by Amillia@Feb 5 2005, 09:44 AM

I will agree that most women want it ALL. They want a warm sensitive guy who is "sensitive to all their needs"  and who call also go out into the world and kick major but in the work place. They want a nice caring Atila the Hun. Unfortunately, the two qualities don't often go hand in hand in men. Essentially, women want men with both femine and male qualities. Men on the other hand tend to be satisfied with females that act like females (they don't really care much if she can kick her way to the top of the corporate ladder)

Actually ALL men want is someone who will dish it all out in the bedroom. And MOST men would be totally intimidated by a woman who could kick her way to the top of the corporate ladder.

I don't think intimidated is the right term. The right term would be "turned off". First, because most of the women who manage to do that are not attractive, and second, they tend to be pushy and abnoxious to men.

[Cal]

Originally posted by curvette+Feb 6 2005, 04:31 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (curvette @ Feb 6 2005, 04:31 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--DisRuptive1@Feb 6 2005, 11:55 AM

What men want:

A lady in the parlor, a cook in the kitchen, and a harlot in the bedroom.

Shaaaaaah! And it's supposed to happen with no effort whatsoever on the part of the man. We're supposed to be lightswitches!

What do you mean by no effort? Why is carrying the major load for suppporting the family "no effort'?

[Cal]

Originally posted by Strawberry Fields+Feb 6 2005, 10:28 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Strawberry Fields @ Feb 6 2005, 10:28 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--DisRuptive1@Feb 6 2005, 09:40 PM

Yeah it is quite sad.  Our grandparents had it pretty well.  Men respected woman and treated them like greater people than they actually were...

Our grandmothers were very great women and our grandfathers treated them as they should be treated. If more men treated their wives with love and respect they would be astounded as to the care they would receive in return.

Non-sense. The better men treat women, the less the men get of what they want. As soon as women feel secure, they stop taking care of themselves and pretty much ignore the guy.

[StrawberryFields]

Originally posted by Cal+Feb 7 2005, 07:53 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Cal @ Feb 7 2005, 07:53 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>

Originally posted by -Strawberry Fields@Feb 6 2005, 10:28 PM

<!--QuoteBegin--DisRuptive1@Feb 6 2005, 09:40 PM

Yeah it is quite sad.  Our grandparents had it pretty well.  Men respected woman and treated them like greater people than they actually were...

Our grandmothers were very great women and our grandfathers treated them as they should be treated. If more men treated their wives with love and respect they would be astounded as to the care they would receive in return.

Non-sense. The better men treat women, the less the men get of what they want. As soon as women feel secure, they stop taking care of themselves and pretty much ignore the guy.

So, you say that you currently have a great marriage. I guess that would mean that you treat your wife bad?

[Guest curvette]

Originally posted by Cal+Feb 7 2005, 06:50 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Cal @ Feb 7 2005, 06:50 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>

Originally posted by -curvette@Feb 6 2005, 04:31 PM

<!--QuoteBegin--DisRuptive1@Feb 6 2005, 11:55 AM

What men want:

A lady in the parlor, a cook in the kitchen, and a harlot in the bedroom.

Shaaaaaah! And it's supposed to happen with no effort whatsoever on the part of the man. We're supposed to be lightswitches!

What do you mean by no effort? Why is carrying the major load for suppporting the family "no effort'?

I guess for the same reason that it's "the woman's choice" to have the children! :)

[Amillia]

Originally posted by Cal+Feb 7 2005, 07:53 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Cal @ Feb 7 2005, 07:53 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>

Originally posted by -Strawberry Fields@Feb 6 2005, 10:28 PM

<!--QuoteBegin--DisRuptive1@Feb 6 2005, 09:40 PM

Yeah it is quite sad.  Our grandparents had it pretty well.  Men respected woman and treated them like greater people than they actually were...

Our grandmothers were very great women and our grandfathers treated them as they should be treated. If more men treated their wives with love and respect they would be astounded as to the care they would receive in return.

Non-sense. The better men treat women, the less the men get of what they want. As soon as women feel secure, they stop taking care of themselves and pretty much ignore the guy.

That is a load of C R A P! The more secure my husband makes me feel, the more I have energy to make him happy and the more I want to please him and let him know how much I appreciate his hard work for our family.

I am exercising up a storm these days for just that reason. The only times I have gotten out of shape is when I have been made to feel like it wasn't worth it to keep myself up, which has everything to do with how my husband treats me.

[pushka]

Well said Amillia!!

[Jenda]

I agree, Amillia. Well said.

Cal, you have absolutely no idea how wrong you are on all your assumptions about women. I don't know what kind of household you grew up in, or what your current one is like, or if you are just reading all these wacky studies (done by men who don't have the foggiest idea what motivates and inspires women, either), but you really need to find some real women and talk to them instead of just making assumptions.

[Blessed]

Originally posted by Amillia+Feb 8 2005, 12:52 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Amillia @ Feb 8 2005, 12:52 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>

Originally posted by -Cal@Feb 7 2005, 07:53 AM

Originally posted by -Strawberry Fields@Feb 6 2005, 10:28 PM

<!--QuoteBegin--DisRuptive1@Feb 6 2005, 09:40 PM

Yeah it is quite sad.  Our grandparents had it pretty well.  Men respected woman and treated them like greater people than they actually were...

Our grandmothers were very great women and our grandfathers treated them as they should be treated. If more men treated their wives with love and respect they would be astounded as to the care they would receive in return.

Non-sense. The better men treat women, the less the men get of what they want. As soon as women feel secure, they stop taking care of themselves and pretty much ignore the guy.

That is a load of C R A P! The more secure my husband makes me feel, the more I have energy to make him happy and the more I want to please him and let him know how much I appreciate his hard work for our family.

I am exercising up a storm these days for just that reason. The only times I have gotten out of shape is when I have been made to feel like it wasn't worth it to keep myself up, which has everything to do with how my husband treats me.

Last night I asked my husband how I looked in a new pair of work out shorts... I thought maybe they were too short. He looked at me and stumbled around the question and then replied "how do you want me to answer that?"

I let him know with that answer he just did.

It was truly THE most painful thing he has ever said to me.

Our anniversary is Wed. Don't think it will be a happy one.

For the record... I am 5"7 and weigh 125. I feel real inspired to let him touch me. NOT

[StrawberryFields]

Originally posted by Blessed+Feb 8 2005, 08:32 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Blessed @ Feb 8 2005, 08:32 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>

Originally posted by -Amillia@Feb 8 2005, 12:52 AM

Originally posted by -Cal@Feb 7 2005, 07:53 AM

Originally posted by -Strawberry Fields@Feb 6 2005, 10:28 PM

<!--QuoteBegin--DisRuptive1@Feb 6 2005, 09:40 PM

Yeah it is quite sad.  Our grandparents had it pretty well.  Men respected woman and treated them like greater people than they actually were...

Our grandmothers were very great women and our grandfathers treated them as they should be treated. If more men treated their wives with love and respect they would be astounded as to the care they would receive in return.

Non-sense. The better men treat women, the less the men get of what they want. As soon as women feel secure, they stop taking care of themselves and pretty much ignore the guy.

That is a load of C R A P! The more secure my husband makes me feel, the more I have energy to make him happy and the more I want to please him and let him know how much I appreciate his hard work for our family.

I am exercising up a storm these days for just that reason. The only times I have gotten out of shape is when I have been made to feel like it wasn't worth it to keep myself up, which has everything to do with how my husband treats me.

Last night I asked my husband how I looked in a new pair of work out shorts... I thought maybe they were too short. He looked at me and stumbled around the question and then replied "how do you want me to answer that?"

I let him know with that answer he just did.

It was truly THE most painful thing he has ever said to me.

Our anniversary is Wed. Don't think it will be a happy one.

For the record... I am 5"7 and weigh 125. I feel real inspired to let him touch me. NOT

Amen to all of my sisters above!

Blessed, I know exactly what you are saying and I am sorry. I was that weight when I married and I was very pleased with myself. Please try to forget that he said that to you because pain like that only hurts the woman. Many times when woman are hurt they feel empty inside and they eat to fill a void. That is why we need to ignore comments such as those because they hurt so deeply. I find it better just to never ask how we look from them. All we have to do is wait to hear it from another man from a "look" that is cast our way. Men have such fragile ego¡Çs, which is why I said earlier in this post that it is such a sad thing for them to rely on a trophy wife to fulfill the man's self worth.

I think that Cal might be practicing his court room antics on the woman of LDSTalk. Disruptive is young and has been burned by his mistakes so his words come from his short life experiences, although I am not sure what he has against our grandmothers.

Women are quite simple in their needs and desires and if a man can discover what bring out her "beauty", he is a very lucky man indeed!

[yaanufs]

Originally posted by Strawberry Fields@Feb 8 2005, 09:55 AM

Women are quite simple in their needs and desires and if a man can discover what bring out her "beauty", he is a very lucky man indeed!

You must be having a laugh here.

It is definitely the other way around. Men are simple creatures, and easy to please. Women change constantly, what they liked yesterday they don't like today, etc. Women communicate in riddles, etc

I suggest you read some books by some established authors that touch on the subject of the differences between men and women. The "10 stupid things women (or men) do to mess up their lives" makes for interesting reading. They clearly elaborate on the complexities of women and the simplicity of men.

[Amillia]

=yaanufs,Feb 8 2005, 03:32 PM]

Women are quite simple in their needs and desires and if a man can discover what bring out her "beauty", he is a very lucky man indeed!

You must be having a laugh here.

It is definitely the other way around. Men are simple creatures, and easy to please. Women change constantly, what they liked yesterday they don't like today, etc. Women communicate in riddles, etc

I suggest you read some books by some established authors that touch on the subject of the differences between men and women. The "10 stupid things women (or men) do to mess up their lives" makes for interesting reading. They clearly elaborate on the complexities of women and the simplicity of men.

Are you married? Do you have sisters? Where women are totally connected emotionally to their men, men are not totally connected to their women.

There ego is the key to men, and that ego is quite complicated. If a man comes home from work and it didn't go well and his ego is deflated, then anything a wife will say, is the wrong thing and nothing will please him.

Of course knowing this, the simple creature that I am, I take time to find out what happened at work, instead of reacting to situations around me with the rage that was spawned by totally different situations. After a little simple chatting, I boost his ego and self-worth up again, and we have passed the possible discord that could rule the family for the evening.

It is a fact, men rarely come home and say, "My ego is crushed, so watch out, anything you do or say might be held against you and bring my wrath upon you!"

[yaanufs]

Originally posted by yaanufs@Feb 8 2005, 03:32 PM

Are you married? Do you have sisters?

Yes, yes, yes.

The facts are that women are complex and variable. Men are simple and consistent.

I've read a whole bunch of books on relationships and it is crystal clear from the authors which of the sexes is simple in their needs and which is complex and inherently variable in their needs.

Males do have an ego that needs stroked by their partner, that much is true. But I think you'll find it is a simple thing to do and does not carry the same complexity and difficulty that males have in trying to deal with women.

Find me a good quote from an author or academic that backs up your position that males have very complex needs and women have very simple needs. Just debating our opinions with nothing to back you (or me) up is going to be pointless.

[Amillia]

Originally posted by yaanufs+Feb 8 2005, 04:05 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (yaanufs @ Feb 8 2005, 04:05 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--yaanufs@Feb 8 2005, 03:32 PM

Are you married? Do you have sisters?

Yes, yes, yes.

The facts are that women are complex and variable. Men are simple and consistent.

I've read a whole bunch of books on relationships and it is crystal clear from the authors which of the sexes is simple in their needs and which is complex and inherently variable in their needs.

Males do have an ego that needs stroked by their partner, that much is true. But I think you'll find it is a simple thing to do and does not carry the same complexity and difficulty that males have in trying to deal with women.

Find me a good quote from an author or academic that backs up your position that males have very complex needs and women have very simple needs. Just debating our opinions with nothing to back you (or me) up is going to be pointless.

I guess raising a bunch of both doesn't count.

[yaanufs]

Originally posted by Amillia@Feb 8 2005, 04:18 PM

I guess raising a bunch of both doesn't count.

It doesn't make you an expert on how the two should interact in a marriage anyway. Particularly when your opinion is in direct contradiction with many of the relationship experts of this world.

[StrawberryFields]

Originally posted by yaanufs+Feb 8 2005, 03:32 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (yaanufs @ Feb 8 2005, 03:32 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--Strawberry Fields@Feb 8 2005, 09:55 AM

  Women are quite simple in their needs and desires and if a man can discover what bring out her "beauty", he is a very lucky man indeed!

You must be having a laugh here.

Nope, not laughing.

If a man treats her right, that is where a woman's beauty blossoms.

Just like Amillia posted earlier: "That is a load of C R A P! The more secure my husband makes me feel, the more I have energy to make him happy and the more I want to please him and let him know how much I appreciate his hard work for our family.

I am exercising up a storm these days for just that reason. The only times I have gotten out of shape is when I have been made to feel like it wasn't worth it to keep myself up, which has everything to do with how my husband treats me. "

Simple really. :)

[Guest curvette]

The bottom line, I think, is that men have needs and women have needs. The needs are VERY different, and we'd all improve our marriages to learn them and remember them. (I think we're building a pretty good case for gay marriage! :) )

[Cal]

Originally posted by Strawberry Fields+Feb 7 2005, 07:38 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Strawberry Fields @ Feb 7 2005, 07:38 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>

Originally posted by -Cal@Feb 7 2005, 07:53 AM

Originally posted by -Strawberry Fields@Feb 6 2005, 10:28 PM

<!--QuoteBegin--DisRuptive1@Feb 6 2005, 09:40 PM

Yeah it is quite sad.  Our grandparents had it pretty well.  Men respected woman and treated them like greater people than they actually were...

Our grandmothers were very great women and our grandfathers treated them as they should be treated. If more men treated their wives with love and respect they would be astounded as to the care they would receive in return.

Non-sense. The better men treat women, the less the men get of what they want. As soon as women feel secure, they stop taking care of themselves and pretty much ignore the guy.

So, you say that you currently have a great marriage. I guess that would mean that you treat your wife bad?

Did I say I treat my wife badly? I may have over stated the issue a bit. Let me explain. If you ,as a guy, fall all over the woman, and make her think you can't live without her, you creat a situaltion where she will start to devalue you. It is just human nature. You have to keep her a little bit off balance; let her please you. The one who cares less is the one who is going to get the most attention.

Actually, I treat my wife just fine--she is not the type that wants anyone fauwning all over her--which is fine with me, because, I need a certain amount of time to myself also--we are compatible that way. We have moments where we let eachother know how we feel, but we don't over do it.

By the way, don't let anything I have said be construed as my condoning ANY mistreatment. Just don't overdo the good stuff. It makes the other person take you for granted.

Does that help?