Guest curvette Posted February 12, 2005 Report Share Posted February 12, 2005 Originally posted by Cal@Feb 12 2005, 11:01 AM Even if the disparity is lesser in some cases, it is also much greater in others. What if the guy makes say 2 or 3 hundred thousand? Should he still clean toilets? How much does he have to make to get out of cleaning toilets? And if she doesn't contribute as much as he does, why shouldn't she do it instead of him? I don't think the person who works long hours outside the home should have to come home and scrub toilets. (unless they get some kind of perverse pleasure from doing so.) But just because a homemaker doesn't bring home a paycheck, there is still enormous value in what he/she does. If I died, it would cost my husband a fortune to hire someone to do all of the things that I normally do. It's a team effort. You make it sound like it's some kind of a war. Spouses should be on the same side. There is also a lot of value for my husband to have a wife who takes good care of herself physically. (I'm putting myself out of a limb here, I know, but I'll say it anyway.) He's a very public person and for whatever reason, it makes him look better in the eyes of his peers if he has a wife who appears attractive in public. I'm not only talking about physical attractiveness. A spouse who can communicate well and make others feel comfortable can be an enormous asset to a businessperson who's business demands a lot of social interaction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amillia Posted February 12, 2005 Report Share Posted February 12, 2005 Originally posted by Cal+Feb 12 2005, 11:08 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Cal @ Feb 12 2005, 11:08 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--Amillia@Feb 11 2005, 10:38 PM Five tips for a woman....1. It is important that a man helps you around the house and has a job.2. It is important that a man makes you laugh.3. It is important to find a man you can count on and doesn't lie to you.4. It is important that a man loves you and spoils you5. It is important that these four men don't know each other. Send this to five bright, funny women you know and make their day. WE ALL NEED TO SMILE !!! The last line is funny, and the rest is wishful thinking! I'll be damned if I am going to work my bum of to support some lazy stay at home mom, just to hear her nag me about the dishes and the floor, and complain that I don't pay her enough attention. Men who make good money don't have to put up with that---your requests are an invitation to get yourself "kicked to the curb, honey!".Disclaimer: Nothing in the aformentioned statement is to be construed to encourge infidelity or abuse. Let it be known that this author totally and fully supports a loving and mutually respectful marriage. Let it also be known that cleaning the toilets for a fat, lazy, stay at home mom, after the guy busts his bum at work all day, is against public policy and should be against the law! Why is it that all men assume the woman is staying home eating bon bons while watching soaps??? I work really hard! I do all the books, bills, housework, kids, chauffering, homework with kids, meal planning, shopping, buying of presents, mailing of packages, hair cuts, and even remodeling, repairs, yard work, etc.Why should I work around the clock while my husband gets off at 5 and sits in front of the table expecting dinner and later hours infront of the tv?Why shouldn't I expect and get a little help around the house at least on week-ends? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest curvette Posted February 12, 2005 Report Share Posted February 12, 2005 Originally posted by Amillia@Feb 12 2005, 12:44 PM Why should I work around the clock while my husband gets off at 5 and sits in front of the table expecting dinner and later hours infront of the tv?Why shouldn't I expect and get a little help around the house at least on week-ends? Well, according to Cal's argument, it's because what you (and I) do at home doesn't have enough monetary value. I guess if a man only makes 40,000.00 a year, then he might qualify to have to help around the house a little. The whole "titt for tatt" mindset (for lack of a better term--maybe pushka has one) seems a little silly and immature. I never doubt my value to my husband and my family. Having a good, loving spouse and well adjusted children is immensely valuable to most people. Just because someone's job doesn't directly generate income is no reason to dismiss it as unimportant or of inferior value. That comment about stay at home moms being fat and lazy is astonishing to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pushka Posted February 12, 2005 Report Share Posted February 12, 2005 Curvette, Jenda and Amillia...once again I applaud YOU on your comments this time!! Yes, I appreciate the scenario that Cal is trying to set up...but that is just, as you said, 'titt for tatt' plain money business...there doesn't seem to be any room for love in that set up!! Also, is the SAHW entitled to holidays and holiday pay? Is she entitled to sickness benefits/days off when she is unwell, or will she have to deduct that amount from the allowance her husband allows her to 'spend on herself='spend on herself and the children', in order to pay the husband for taking over the chores in her absence? Amillia, you sound as if you are doing a great job at your house...I notice that Cal omitted to mention teaching costs when you spend hours teaching your children at home during those essential early years, and all that extra tutoring during the evenings...homework etc...or does the husband get to share at least THAT task? In fact, what does the husband do for his children???? As for the toilet cleaning...well, as you've already said, if it's generally kept clean, then all the women are asking of the gents is PLEASE AIM STRAIGHT, AND MOP UP ANY MESSES YOU MAKE!!! ITS COURTESY....LOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest estump Posted February 12, 2005 Report Share Posted February 12, 2005 How many times has Dr. Phil said: Men DON'T GET IT! When will they start to believe he is right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DisRuptive1 Posted February 13, 2005 Report Share Posted February 13, 2005 I don't know if I've said this but the cost compared to services of a housewife is cheaper than all her jobs combined. Cook, maid, nanny, prostitute. All cheaper than a housewife. Oh and if you want a long-lasting friend, then it's still cheaper. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pushka Posted February 13, 2005 Report Share Posted February 13, 2005 Yeah...but what price do you put on love and loyalty? That isn't a fairytale surely? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest curvette Posted February 13, 2005 Report Share Posted February 13, 2005 Originally posted by DisRuptive1@Feb 12 2005, 06:32 PM I don't know if I've said this but the cost compared to services of a housewife is cheaper than all her jobs combined.Cook, maid, nanny, prostitute. All cheaper than a housewife. Oh and if you want a long-lasting friend, then it's still cheaper. Well then, for heaven's sake don't marry one! Marry a career woman who doesn't want children. Lord knows the world doesn't need another unappreciated "desperate"' housewife! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest curvette Posted February 13, 2005 Report Share Posted February 13, 2005 Originally posted by pushka@Feb 12 2005, 08:55 PM Yeah...but what price do you put on love and loyalty? That isn't a fairytale surely? None silly! It's all about men working hard and supporting greedy women who do nothing but sit around being lazy and getting fat, remember? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pushka Posted February 13, 2005 Report Share Posted February 13, 2005 Yep...I remember Curvette...sheeeesh...some men!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lindy Posted February 13, 2005 Report Share Posted February 13, 2005 When was the last time you saw a short, fat, ugly girl with a good looking rich guy! Never, that's when. I can't speak for others, and not to start a war or anything....but I can remember good looking rich guy with, (even married to) a woman most men wouldn't look twice at. But I, in all honesty, can't remember ever seeing a good looking rich woman with a short, fat, ugly guy. I would venture a guess that there are, couples like that, out there that don't have their faces plastered in the newspapers, or flashing on the tv. Happy,compatable, mutt and jeff couples that don't give a flying rat's butt who notices them or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DisRuptive1 Posted February 13, 2005 Report Share Posted February 13, 2005 All exceptions. For ugly woman with a rich guy you show me, I can show you 100 others where the woman is attractive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lindy Posted February 13, 2005 Report Share Posted February 13, 2005 Originally posted by DisRuptive1@Feb 13 2005, 12:15 PM All exceptions. For ugly woman with a rich guy you show me, I can show you 100 others where the woman is attractive. Never, that's when.That wasn't the point laddie.....you said NEVER. I couldn't stand silent and let that one by. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amillia Posted February 14, 2005 Report Share Posted February 14, 2005 Originally posted by DisRuptive1@Feb 13 2005, 01:15 PM All exceptions. For ugly woman with a rich guy you show me, I can show you 100 others where the woman is attractive. So are you rich? Short and ugly? What? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest curvette Posted February 14, 2005 Report Share Posted February 14, 2005 Originally posted by Amillia@Feb 14 2005, 12:17 AM So are you rich? Short and ugly? What? No. He's single. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TannersDad Posted February 14, 2005 Report Share Posted February 14, 2005 You people are all crazy!!! Most women do not get a windfall on divorce. Alimony (they call it maintenance now) is pretty much a thing of the past. On the rare occasion that they do get it, the only get it for a limited period of time, usually no more than two years to "rehabilitate" them. The divorce rate is 43% in the United States. Most marriages are still working. The divorce rate for LDS marriages is really low so whatever counsel people are getting before/during seems to be working. The aspect of sex in a marriage is way overblown here. It only becomes an issue when some one is being selfish. In other words the issue isn't the sex it is the selfishness of the partner. This is the same thing about money, child care, etc... Someone is being selfish. When both parties in a marriage are only concern with the well being of their partner then the marriage will work. Cal is up in the night. After reading his stuff was anybody shocked that he went through a divorce? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pushka Posted February 14, 2005 Report Share Posted February 14, 2005 Hehehe TannersDad...wise words spoken... Don't be too harsh on Cal, apparently his fiancee only married him because of the career she thought he was going to take up after college...well paid etc. (correct me if i'm wrong here Cal), and then divorced him when he took a job which wasn't as well paid...so he is entitled to feel a little angry at her greed... I was more shocked at the general posts that were made by DisRuptive1, who, if I remember rightly has been married 4 times so has more experience of divorce than maybe the rest of us, but maybe less experience of a successful marriage...perhaps he should ponder a little as to why his 3 marriages failed...I am not assuming the fault was all his or all his wives' however!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrawberryFields Posted February 14, 2005 Report Share Posted February 14, 2005 Originally posted by TannersDad@Feb 14 2005, 10:29 AM You people are all crazy!!!Most women do not get a windfall on divorce. Alimony (they call it maintenance now) is pretty much a thing of the past. On the rare occasion that they do get it, the only get it for a limited period of time, usually no more than two years to "rehabilitate" them. The divorce rate is 43% in the United States. Most marriages are still working. The divorce rate for LDS marriages is really low so whatever counsel people are getting before/during seems to be working.The aspect of sex in a marriage is way overblown here. It only becomes an issue when some one is being selfish. In other words the issue isn't the sex it is the selfishness of the partner. This is the same thing about money, child care, etc... Someone is being selfish. When both parties in a marriage are only concern with the well being of their partner then the marriage will work. Cal is up in the night. After reading his stuff was anybody shocked that he went through a divorce? Yes, you are right. I said them same thing about being selfish awhile back. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrawberryFields Posted February 14, 2005 Report Share Posted February 14, 2005 Originally posted by pushka@Feb 14 2005, 01:06 PM I was more shocked at the general posts that were made by DisRuptive1, who, if I remember rightly has been married 4 times so has more experience of divorce than maybe the rest of us, but maybe less experience of a successful marriage...perhaps he should ponder a little as to why his 3 marriages failed...I am not assuming the fault was all his or all his wives' however!!! Disruptive has just turned 21 and he was worried about a girl who he thought he might have impregnated. He believes that women are there just for his "release". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amillia Posted February 14, 2005 Report Share Posted February 14, 2005 Originally posted by Strawberry Fields+Feb 14 2005, 01:12 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Strawberry Fields @ Feb 14 2005, 01:12 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--pushka@Feb 14 2005, 01:06 PM I was more shocked at the general posts that were made by DisRuptive1, who, if I remember rightly has been married 4 times so has more experience of divorce than maybe the rest of us, but maybe less experience of a successful marriage...perhaps he should ponder a little as to why his 3 marriages failed...I am not assuming the fault was all his or all his wives' however!!! Disruptive has just turned 21 and he was worried about a girl who he thought he might have impregnated. He believes that women are there just for his "release". uggh! That reaks! He needs to get some of that stuff they call "self-control" and maybe a little responsibility on the side. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest curvette Posted February 14, 2005 Report Share Posted February 14, 2005 Originally posted by TannersDad@Feb 14 2005, 09:29 AM You people are all crazy!!!Most women do not get a windfall on divorce. Alimony (they call it maintenance now) is pretty much a thing of the past. On the rare occasion that they do get it, the only get it for a limited period of time, usually no more than two years to "rehabilitate" them. The divorce rate is 43% in the United States. Most marriages are still working. The divorce rate for LDS marriages is really low so whatever counsel people are getting before/during seems to be working.The aspect of sex in a marriage is way overblown here. It only becomes an issue when some one is being selfish. In other words the issue isn't the sex it is the selfishness of the partner. This is the same thing about money, child care, etc... Someone is being selfish. When both parties in a marriage are only concern with the well being of their partner then the marriage will work. Cal is up in the night. After reading his stuff was anybody shocked that he went through a divorce? This is from the Encyclopedia of Mormonism:"Recent U.S. data from the National Survey of Families and Households indicate that about 26 percent of both Latter-day Saints and non-LDS have experienced a divorce (Heaton et al., Table 2). If these trends continue, researchers project that about one-third of recent U.S. LDS marriages may end in divorce (Goodman and Heaton, p. 92). Nationally, experts predict that 50-60 percent of recent marriages will end in divorce or separation (Cherlin, p. 148)."I would hope that temple marriage statistics would be much lower, but I don't know what they are, but the divorce rate for LDS marriages is surprisingly highOh, and we are not all crazy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pushka Posted February 14, 2005 Report Share Posted February 14, 2005 Originally posted by Strawberry Fields+Feb 14 2005, 12:12 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Strawberry Fields @ Feb 14 2005, 12:12 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--pushka@Feb 14 2005, 01:06 PM I was more shocked at the general posts that were made by DisRuptive1, who, if I remember rightly has been married 4 times so has more experience of divorce than maybe the rest of us, but maybe less experience of a successful marriage...perhaps he should ponder a little as to why his 3 marriages failed...I am not assuming the fault was all his or all his wives' however!!! Disruptive has just turned 21 and he was worried about a girl who he thought he might have impregnated. He believes that women are there just for his "release". Eeeek...Have I got the wrong guy then? Sorry, I know that pages back someone was saying that they had been married 4 times...maybe I've confused him with DisRuptive1...sorry if I have DisRuptive1!!! Can anybody remember who the other male poster was??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pushka Posted February 14, 2005 Report Share Posted February 14, 2005 Eeeekk...now I feel so stupid...I can't find the quote to which I was referring about the 2 men debating marriage on this forum...could it have been a comment made on a similar thread? I am sorry...I'm sure the man said that he had plenty of experience of marriage as he had been married 4 times... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenda Posted February 14, 2005 Report Share Posted February 14, 2005 I talked about being married 3 times. But I am female. Does that help? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pushka Posted February 15, 2005 Report Share Posted February 15, 2005 Thanks Jenda...I'm not sure...I was certain that it was a man who said that he and Cal had more knowledge about these issues of divorce etc. because of the number of marriages that they had had... I hope you don't think that I'm judging you because you spoke about 3 marriages...I believed that the male poster was believing that he and Cal were a better authority on the subject because of their experiences... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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